1998/06/30 10:37
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #488
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 488
Today's Topics: Re: Nothing [ "Paul West" ]
Re: a question [ John Heaton ] Re: Nothing - Transcendence Zone [ "Paul Torres" ]
Ice scream source [ "Lobster" ] RE: a question [ "jb" ]
Re: Faces of god [ "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Nothing Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Angela Mary Broad,
A lovely big pile of observations from you on this subject. Thanks. :)
I see generally where you're coming from. I have today been feeling
unusually myself, a little more prepared to not care what other people think of me and my personal views. I feel I have more courage today,
to be alone psychologically. And, I feel there is a greater meaningfulness, and it is warm, and it is loving.
So I am wondering now if perhaps, in some way, the state of
no-thingness was a clear view of God as if he were standing in front of me, /but/ perhaps to the exclusion of some other things. Like sort
of a little bubble or bulge of my mind going up higher while the rest remains. Hmm. I was sort of underneath the layer on which thinking
occurs, seeing the wierdness of it, that it wasn't even me. I guess I would have needed to be in a situation to see how I felt about things.
Brings me to something else... in my third `k explosion', there was a
man wandering around amongst some bushes looking confused and lost and lonely. Somehow that man was my ego-self. BUT, the person I was at the
time was not in any way that man. Does that make sense? And in the same way, when I was in the void, the thoughts that were happening on
the surface above me were sort of caught up in themselves and they sort of had their own identities. And that `identity', as centers to
consciousness, was what seemed to be `awareness'. And normally we look to that to believe that we are aware or that that is who we are. But
somehow I think we're not that at all. Like, it's not even part of ourselves, as though it has a life of its own. Can you imagine? It's
sort of an infection, you know, external. When I was in the void I had absolutely no association with the thought-self fragments that were
stumbling all over the place. And in the k experience I did not recognise the lost man as myself. And on other occasions also, I have
seen ego-selves which are like completely seperate things, nothing to do with me whatsoever, like little cancers in the consciousness
pretending that they own the place. What do you think of that?
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:25:38 -0800
From: valerie cooper To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Winged Heart Poem Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
WINGED HEART
The stillness of a silent dream unformed, awaiting measure, Allocates the vision & the value of heart´s treasure.
When first we seek outside ourself for meaning, under pressure, We´re doomed to a kaleidescope revolving into fissures.
The peace within is wrenched apart; cold silence sadly broken, The hurts & fears of years & tears arisen & verboten.
The light within is healing , but unseemly & unspoken, And underneath a pain so unrelenting, nigh forgotten.
Simple how a child knows that Love that´s like a river, Creatively releasing turbulence & mists a´hover.
Old grows the mind with dams & walls infected as a sliver, And nightmares loom with insolance, & terrors all ashiver.
Cast forth these demons, set us free from pain & apathy, That we might live our choices in control and harmony.
The narrow visions we construe through serendipity, Expanding grounded through the grace of synchronicity.
And, n´ermore awaken past injustice from the darts, Please lighten up this heavy load whence light & life must part.
Release all bondage from the past, that clarity might start, With obsessive perserverance shall we follow the winged heart.
************************
Things are more like they are today than they ever have been before. Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:48:08 PDT From: "dheeraj tripathy"
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: a question
Message-ID:
A question for you all --
When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree
or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ?
Kindly answer .
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:51:01 -0800 From: valerie cooper
To: dheeraj tripathy CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: a question Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
dheeraj tripathy wrote:
> > A question for you all --
> > When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree
> or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ? >
> Kindly answer .
the tree remains alive because of it's root system deep within the earth. the leaf is alive for a time, but is ostracized from this root
system of the tree, so it eventually dies from lack of nutrients. The aforementioned 'root system' deep into the earth qualifies them
both. what's the next question?
v ************************
Things are more like they are today than they ever have been before. Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 03:07:02 EDT From: WEIVODAATnospamaol.com
To: khaliATnospamhotmail.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: a question
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-06-30 02:48:34 EDT, you write:
>When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree >or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ?
When the leaf is plucked from the tree, part of the tree dies, and part of the
leaf dies. Why, when the leaf is plucked from the tree, the tree loses a leaf, so part of it dies in a way, and same for the leaf, when the leaf is taken
away from the tree part of the leaf dies. Both are still alive, just part of them are dead. You might say, when referring to the leaf: the tree part of the
leaf is dead; referring to the tree: the leaf of the tree is dead. Does the leaf ever really die?
Kristin Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 03:48:19 -0400
From: David Bozzi To: Kundalini
Subject: Re: a question Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
dheeraj tripathy wrote:
> When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree
> or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ?
Life Lives...Nothing dies.
Eternal Life to All Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:48:10 -0500
From: John Heaton To: dheeraj tripathy
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: a question
Message-ID:
dheeraj tripathy wrote: >
> A question for you all -- >
> When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree > or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ?
> > Kindly answer .
The leaf lives and dies as you decide. You are the qualifier.
> > ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:00:28 -0400
From: David Bozzi To: Kundalini
Subject: Re: Faces of god Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> Infinity divided by
> infinity is infinity... except you cannot divide infinity coz there is only > room in infinity for a single infinity.
This world is a subset of Infinity.(and is infinite)Say All Numbers are The
Infinite Set. The set of just even numbers is infinite.
(so the odds) Neither Complete.
Both infinite. This Infinite Characteristic of All reflects even in the limited.
Wholeness to All
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:01:38 PDT From: "Paul Torres"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, eeaATnospamaug.com Subject: Re: Nothing - Transcendence Zone
Message-ID:
>Paul:
>What is going on when you actually experience 'blackness' with >your consciousness...? >8
It has been happening more often recently. To describe a basic encounter... I am doing something normal, not too out of the ordinary,
when three dimensionality leaves my vision, and I have to navigate my next few minutes as though I am looking at my life through a television
screen. If I were to turn off the tele, I would still exist in my three dimensional world. I hope that this makes sense.
>The *fear* of "nothingness", of "no-thingness", of not being
>able to experience "separate things" (as per conditioning) keeps >this experience from occurring.
> >"Nothingness"...the 'illusion' of conditioned perception...the
>final barrier to overcome in the quest for enlightenment. >
>Congratulations, Paul. :-)
Thank you
... in which blackness is an actual state of mind? Is that nothingness? I experienced absolute certainty, and a quality of
`godlyness'. Not a theory or an ideal, but an actual sort of texture, a quality, of the nature of God. And also I experienced that this
emptyness was total peace. There was nothing there, sheer blackness. No center to the self, and yet there was self, and self was God. And
it was all the same thing. And there was nothing that wasn't in consciousness. No-thing could be avoided, no part of it denied or
escaped from. Thoughts arose and were the most primitive mental illnesses caught up in themselves, totally blind. Absolutely, totally,
completely nothing, as an emptyness of all `things', just purely and wholly deadly black.
To slot this in amongst the pretend continuum of time, in which
there was a temporary break, that break occured to me this morning. Just a total singularity of which it could be described many different
attributes, but there was only one thing. God, awareness, love, peace, transcendence, nothingness, reality, clarity, sanity, and black.. just
SO black.
I believe that upon retrospect, there are two things that hinder me from
moving forward into this new reality. I believe that they are both spawned from the same problem, I am alone. I am not recieving love with
which I can then complete the rest of my life. I am in waiting for my compliment to take correct notice of me. This also leads to my lack of
integration in society. I tend, while alone, to be a loner. I have trouble giving the love that I recognize inside of myself for
everything. This happens because I have trouble creating love when I myself am recieving the bare minimum. I use what I get to keep myself
functioning. I can however magnify any love that I get to great proportions. I have proven this to myself in my past relationship.
I realize that it may seem that I have wandered off of the topic, but I
believe that to be necessary background for this:
The blackness does have a "texture" and it is very indescribable.
There is a definitive something out there, but until I can realize that I am not as seperate as I may seem, I won't be able to know it.
Thank you for your kind reply.
Paul Torres
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:16:25 PDT From: "Paul Torres"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, eeaATnospamaug.com Subject: Re: Nothing - Transcendence Zone
Message-ID:
Forgive my misinterpretation, but I found much wisdom in the e-mail to
Paul, and without thinking, I decided to respond to it as though it was meant for me. I thank you for these words of wisdom, and I know that
they have helped at least one Paul on the list. It did not even occur to me that perhaps the e-mail was not meant for myself. I apologize if
that seemed an arrogant assumption. Thanks anyway,
Paul Torres
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:41:50 +0100 From: "Lobster"
To: "Dan Margolis" , "Mystress Angelique Serpent"
Cc: Subject: Re: love is...
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Friends,
Angelique (not cranky person) wrote:
> Mirror, mirror, as it goes. You and he both think I wrote it coz I was >cranky. Nope.
Not cranky eh? Well, well. These things are relative and I accept fully that the intention and motivation were wholesome.
Angelique Serpent - not cranky - mmm?
> Lobster, previously persuaded me that email is not worth knotted panties..
>I love Lobster, and I genuinely wanted to know he reason for this behavior.
Love of knotted panties.
> It's not the first time I have asked. Genuine curiosity, without a hint >of malice.
Not a hint of malice. Well, well. Not a hint? Hint is a small amount, sometimes a hidden amount. These things are relative . . .
However the feel was very different to a malice email and I accept the spirit of the meaning. It was a very wholesome post . . . certainly felt
that way . . .
> I am suspicious of motives that are based on "what other people need".
>Were you speaking of yourself needing things repeated? Go buy a book.
Angelique perhaps you now understand why I am suspicious of my own motives.
For instance if I had a tendency to place myself in the dominant position and say others benefited from my energy, should I not perhaps be a little
suspicious . . . of whose needs are being primarily served?
> Count 3) What makes you think struggling is of value?
No pain. No gain. (remember the knotted panties)
> Count 5).. this one is the funniest.. who is not trying to be true? I >was trying to express the truth of what I see happening in Lobster.. if he
>is really struggling to be true as you suggest, I would think offering such >information would be considered support. Certainly he would think so, as I
>have observed him supporting others in that way many times. > Of course, it was not always received that way.. :)
That is precisely as the post was intended and I appreciate that sentiment behind it . . .
Be Well, Be Happy, Be Kind Lobster
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 05:00:24 +0100 From: "Lobster"
To: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" , "Matthew Bastress"
Cc: "Kundalini List" Subject: Ice scream source
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>Hi Matthew:
> >I would like to tell you I have felt the same way a lot. I even had a few
>problems with someone on the list (and who now has his own list) because I >do believe evil chases.
Yes it is true. That evil one was Lobster. Never was it a reflection of
qualities in the angelic Roberto. Evil, evil, wicked, wicked Lobster.
Be Well, Be Happy, Be Kind,
Lobster (truly an embodiment of evil wickedness . . .) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:57 +0100
From: "jb" To: "K. list" ,
"dheeraj tripathy" Subject: RE: a question
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
dheeraj tripathy Wrote:
> A question for you all -- >
> When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree > or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ?
The various viewpoints:
1 - Self: There is no life apart from Self; it is the only life
2 - controlling organism:
A leaf doesn't have a life of its own, apart from the tree. Leaves can be compared to hairs with mammals. They grow, function for a while and then are
lost, only to be replaced by new ones. Plucking a leaf equals pulling a hair. Severing the link between organism and renewable part means the end of
life for the part. A living organism is capable of reproducing itself. A tree can. A leaf from a tree cannot. But some plants have leaves that can
(grow into a new plant).
3 - smallest individual unit: On the level of the individual cells, there is no distinction between leaf
and tree, or between microbe and man: all cells are equally alive but have different functions.
4 - inanimate:
Life means movement. As long as there is rotation, vibration, there is life. So even a single atom contains life.
5 - void:
A void (absolute vacuum) can 'create' matter/energy. "Creating' means life. Date: 30 Jun 98 03:03:52 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Faces of god Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mystress,
> And posting to the list.. or is that a necessity?
Well, maybe a frequent luxury ;-)
Sometimes it is necessity though.
> It is the play of love and consciousness. Goddess is taking you on a tour
> of polarities, so you will know where the middle path is. Great love to > lift the vibe, no love so you will miss it, and return with a new
> appreciation for simple pleasures. Chop wood, carry water.
I like the way you put that. I got angry earlier this evening because I had been trying to sing and lost awareness, did it all wrong and
caused stresses in my body. Then suddenly everything was more meaningful and loving than ever.
> Everything is a mind trick. Here's a good one. Infinity divided by
> infinity is infinity... except you cannot divide infinity coz there is only > room in infinity for a single infinity. If something is infinite then there
> is no room in the universe of anything that is not it, even the mirrors > walking around that reflect infinite specks of itself back to it..
You don't want to get my going on the philosophy of infinity and its
characteristics! I spent several months on that. In the eyes of the finite, there is an opposite and it is infinity. And yet, in the eyes
(eye?) of infinity, there are no opposites, and the finite does not exist.
I found it to be, and still do, a good exercise to contemplate the
concept of infinity with the least possible concept of finite measure, limits, containment, etc. I also find it useful sometimes to imagine I
am faced with a great guru, as God, and seeing how well I can cancel out all my questions.
> God, is limitless manifestation.Light and dark and colors and shades of
> gray. as you perceive. Everything also that you do not perceive. It is for > you to determine what aspects of this you wish to reflect most brightly.
Hmm, yes. I have been looking at nature a lot. So many different life
forms. Difficult to understand how it all comes from `one' when it seems to have required expertese in so many areas.
> >How
> >is God really? What is he/she like? Light or dark, a feeling of love > >or an absence of all feelings?
> You will not get much response to this coz most folks have more common > sense than to try to fit infinity into an email, using words.
> Blessings, Mystress.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: 30 Jun 98 02:55:12 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: love is... Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dearest Mystress,
> Mirror, mirror, as it goes. You and he both think I wrote it coz I was
> cranky. Nope. > Lobster, previously persuaded me that email is not worth knotted panties..
> I love Lobster, and I genuinely wanted to know he reason for this > behavior.
In one message you are practically incinerating dear Lobster, and in
the next you are sticking up for him against Dan. This is a sign of true leadership, knowing where you're coming from and not being nice
just for the sake of it! Nice to see :-)
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:31:10 -0400 From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id:
>Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:27:48 -0400
>To: vcooperATnospamptialaska.net >From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
>Subject: grief >Cc:
>Bcc: >X-Attachments:
> >Val wrote:
>How does one just process this grief & get ON with it? is it just a >matter of *time*? Or, does it transcend time?
> SignalFire Writes:
> There are several *really* effective things you can do in hypnotherapy to
end the suffering of grief when you are ready for it to end. I wish I had known this 15 years ago ...
--SignalFire
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:52:16 -0400 From: "Bryan Baldwin"
To: Subject: subscribe
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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BDA415.2548D300"
subscribe Date: 30 Jun 98 15:55:51 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: a question Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> A question for you all --
> > When a leaf is plucked from a tree what is alive- the tree
> or the leaf , why ?, when does the leaf die . what qualifies it ?
Okay, this is fundamentally how I would answer this...
Firstly, you suggest there to be a difference between life and death. Let's say that is an error at this point.
Secondly, you suggest that leaf and tree are seperate. Just because
they are not joined by physical matter does not mean they are seperate. Let's say that is an error at this point.
And thirdly you suggest that the tree is seperate of the ground, a
seperate object. Let's say that also is an error.
So what to do next is that you have to go backwards, BEFORE the question, in order to find the true answer. So instead of answering to
the suggestion that leaf and tree are seperate, you /first/ without moving on should be looking at the question itself. Look at it, see
how there is seperation in it, see what its nature is, how it looks, what its limits are, how it is constraining the answer, predefining
how it is allowed to be. If you do that you will see that the only answer that the question will accept is itself. The answer is in the
question. When people ask these sorts of questions you can see immediately AS the question the very thing they are seeking.
Then you take a look at the seperation between earth and tree and do
the same thing. Without moving on, letting things be still, you shouldn't formulate a question and then zap off somewhere into a
seperate space looking for the answer. Stay with the question. Be as close to its origin as possible. Go behind it, before it, look at its
roots. It's there that you will find the true answer if there is such a thing.
Finally, once you have thought laterally and have not been convinced
by the subtle suggestion in the question asking that you have to move beyond the question itself, you are still in the question's continuum.
And being there you basically have all that you're ever going to get that satisfies the question without challenging wether it's a `good'
question to ask in the first place. Before being persuaded that the question even needs answering, one must look at the question and doubt
that an answer is required or can be found. You have to say "woah there, wait a moment, go back". Because if you ain't careful, the
question will impatiently zip ahead and start running the race before listening to the immediacy of the starter's gun. It reminds me of when
you might be in an argument and you feel that the only way you can say something is to say it and run, so that there can be no chance of
somebody thwarting your assertion of what is real.
So you have to transcend the question, rewind, go back to the beginning of it, and not just get into the assumptive attitude that
questions are allowed to be asked and have to be answered. Get to the root, the nitty gritty, and there you might find that the only real
answer to the question is the one that utterly destroys everything the question is made of. And therefore, if the answer is totally beyond
the continuum or context of the question, the only answer it will ever accept is a version of itself. Questions that are born out of already
existing answers. And this question about a leaf dying is one such question - with suggestions of seperation all over the place. If one
is to entertain those seperations there will be a multitude of possible answers, because a number of new and seperate continuums
will be formed in which to hide and avoid the truth, which is a self-sustaining mechanism of the illusion to keep people interested
and searching and it's all very intriguing and philosophical. One answer could be the leaf dies, and then you bring up all the knowledge
of biology, chemisty and stuff like that as to what happens scientifically to the leaf and the tree. You could say the tree might
die, there could be strange circumstances, all sorts of possible avenues of uncertainty because there are a lot of seperate continuums
and none of them are going to be compatible with any other, thus all you'll end up with is a bunch of in-fighting and mental squabbling.
And just when you think you've got the answer someone brings up another possibility that thwarts its integrity, because its integrity
is already thwarted, and so long as those seperations go unchallenged so too will the fragmentation remain, and the only answers one will
come up with are images of oneself.
Hmm, nice weather. Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:14:04 GMT
From: ogrATnospamica.net (muchmoreATnospamonelist.com) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: How to subscribe? Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have just clicked on the mailing list link on this page,
http://www.execpc.com/~libra/kund/a_frans.html as I wanted to reply to Frans Storms, whose
interest in dreams and the dreaming function seems to be as strong as mine. But I am not sure whether
I should subscribe to the kundalini_l list first, and if so, how... or if I should use the
kundalini_pATnospamonelist.com list that I know I am subscribed to.
Please let me know what I should do. Is Frans
Storms still on the list? If so, which one?
I had a very special experience myself... in fact three, including the manifestation of three
drawings which bypassed my mind and could not have originated from it; five "past life recalls"
(including one "as a river"! in North Eastern Canada); and perhaps even more importantly, a
spontaneous out-of-body projection (at the age of 12, in Paris, France) which sent me instantly into
deep space (but not the "physical space" that scientists and astronomers are studying).
However, I am not sure if these experiences really relate to kundalini awakening. They might be
something else, and perhaps off-topic for this list.
Awaiting your reply.
Best regards,
-Alain "Katmandu" Gourbault-
age: 60 location: Toronto, Canada
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Alain "Katmandu"- http://www.tout.com/home.htm
ICQ C.C. >> http://wwp.mirabilis.com/13270357 < "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage."
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