1998/03/02 20:59
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #163
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 163
Today's Topics:
Re: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: HRTZEN: background noise [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: HRTZEN: background noise [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: Chanting ?'s-one more! [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com> ]
Re: HRTZEN: background noise [ Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.te ]
Re: another quest..Candida?? [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: another quest..Candida?? [ "Rick Puravs" <ric51ATnospamgeorge.lhi.net ]
Re: Chanting ?'s-one more! [ Meadowart <MeadowartATnospamaol.com> ]
candida kundalini [ "Cara McCormack" <caradeepaATnospamhotmail ]
(no subject) [ geoff mahoney <geoffmATnospamsihope.com> ]
Starting out, Kriya Yoga, Comments a [ Stuart <stuartfATnospamdimensional.com> ]
Re: Enlightenment? [ CKRESS <CKRESSATnospamAOL.COM> ]
Re: Enlightenment? [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Re: Enlightenment? [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:49:20 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com>
CC: richardATnospamskydancer.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: Re. Enlightenment & Gurus
Message-ID: <34FA9CBC.76DFATnospamintercomm.com>
Alan,
Thank you for the wonderful communication, you put it all down and very
clear and precise. This is exactly how you know. There is fruit and
consistancy, it is never changing. Gloria
Afperry wrote:
>
> Dear Richard,
> I was most interested in your posting; this is a difficult area where emotions
> and egos are constantly muddying the already turbulent waters!
>
> IMHO, the majority of 'gurus' in this world are more like businessmen/women
> than teachers. I am regularly appalled by the pure commercialism of much that
> passes for spirituality, especially here in the West, and I have serious
> doubts about the private motivation of many professed gurus - even though they
> may have attained a considerable spiritual height (God and mammon do not
> appear to be mutually exclusive until the final straight!). However it is
> important not to throw away the baby with the bath
> water........................ :-)
>
> I am fascinated by the evidence that even from the highest spiritual level,
> one can fall - and fall very badly. The recent case of Swami Premananda in
> Tamil Nadu is particularly disturbing: openly recognised as one of the great
> living gurus of India, and one of the very few who still produces materialised
> lingams from inside him on the night of Mahashivaratri (i.e. not just an
> acquired siddhi), Premananda is currently serving life imprisonment for the
> rape of several of his female disciples and for being an accessory to murder.
> How is this possible? And the fact that it obviously is possible raises the
> awkward question "After all my spiritual efforts, could it still happen to
> me?". The Indian epics are full of stories about spiritually-advanced souls
> who fell at the final hurdle, and what about dear old Lucifer
> himself..................
>
> During my life, I have been blessed with close contact with a number of
> gurus, male and female, mainly Indian or Sri Lankan but one American. All
> these have been beyond reproach as regards their individual life-styles, even
> though I have not always agreed with everything they say and do, but several
> striking similarities can be clearly seen in those I have met who are God-
> Realised (which may not all be apparent in those who are just spiritually-
> advanced):
>
> 1. They actually live their message, there is no inconsistency at any level
> that I am aware of. They teach love and service and they live love and
> service.
> 2. None of them charges money for access to them (even though their attendant
> organisations can often be subtly commercial), surviving on donations, etc.
> The general feel has always been "Mother Lakshmi will provide", and She does.
> 3. None has ever tried to recruit disciples or to expand his/her organisation
> by manipulating devotees. Each has shown by example that the sole
> consideration is the spiritual advancement of the individual and, furthermore,
> that their function as an external guru is simply to lead the disciple to
> their inner guru, our God source within, and to a point where the disciple can
> rely totally on that and no longer needs the external figure. The real guru
> frees, he does not bind.
> 4. The possession of siddhis can never be a guideline, but all God-Realised
> teachers will have power/shakti. You will feel it in their presence, in their
> words, their writings and around everything to do with them. This power is
> transformative, purging, purifying, cleansing and, often, churning to the very
> core. And the teachers themselves will never claim it is their power - only
> that they are instruments of God, bringing that shakti to help others.
> Humility and honesty are very clear Divine traits.
> 5. All the God-Realised teachers I have been involved with saw God equally in
> all religions and cultures, and would not even classify themselves as
> necessarily Hindu. They teach universality because that is what they have
> become. There can be no sectarianism at this level, nor any dogma.
> 6. Finally, a tree is known by its fruits. In assessing the worth of any
> spiritual teacher, I have found the finest method is to bypass the figurehead,
> who may be very charismatic, and look closely at those around him/her. Do you
> like what you see or not? Fawning acolytes or earnest sadhakas, etc. etc.?
>
> Discrimination is a critical faculty that we all need to develop and all gurus
> can help us to do that, whether Rajneesh, Sai Baba or Da Free John. I recall
> the words of Mabel Collins earlier this century: "No man is your enemy, no man
> is your friend. All alike are your teachers". We should do well to remember
> that!
>
> With blessings,
> Alan
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:39:42 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE <vandykeATnospammss355.dm.af.mil>
CC: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: background noise
Message-ID: <34FA9A7B.5D28ATnospamintercomm.com>
Gloria here:
Great input Trent, the other thing the learning is in the detaching and
observing the situation without thought or judgement. To just be in it
and witness it so that in doing this the Holy Spirit will work to reach
out and assist. This is what it means to be open and alive to the
moment, it is in these moments that the interior work takes place.
Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE wrote:
>
> Hi Danijel and Mary, Trent here
>
> I think when your aura is up and bright folks are attracted to it.
> They want to know "what does she have?" Granted some folks just want to
> pick on things that are good and bright, (light always attracts shadow),
> but that is part of the responsibility of having consciousness. Love
> and service to our fellow man is the price we have to pay. If you give
> to them, not begrudgingly or judgingly then you and they will benefit
> from the exchange. Don't you think so? With regards to the
> sensitivity, I think that comes with growth to. I think God is
> preparing us to pick up on and sense more subtle energies.
> Over-sensitivity to light and noise in our everyday environment is just
> a by-product of this. Anyone else have a comment here?
>
> Love and Light Trent
>
> ----------
> From: Danijel Turina
> To: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
> Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
> Subject: Re: HRTZEN: background noise
> Date: Mon, Mar 2, 1998 8:00AM
>
> Hi Mary! :)
>
> At 21:52 1998.03.01 -0800, Mary Ezzell wrote:
> >Me too on all this. When things are going right, my aura wants to
> spread
> >out wide and ripple. :-) Then people come and step on it. :-(
>
> Exactly! :)) LOL :))))
>
> >As you say, having to talk to people etc distorts it. I think sometimes
> >they want to distort/interrupt it, because it's not conventional. They
> say
> >you have a funny look on your face or something.
>
> Yes, they feel uncomfortable and don't settle until I become something
> they
> can handle. And telling them to fuck off doesn't help either, coz that
> vibe
> disturbs me even more. :) I just have to give them their "food" and
> continue. But it really feels like a waste of time and energy. <sigh> :)
>
> >Also noise affects it, especially modern music.
> >
> >I've had a big handicap about shopping, restaurants, etc that play
> music.
> >Finally tried something that helped:
> >
> >1. filled ears with layer of cotton, handlotion, more cotton
> >2. wore walkman with classical music (Respigi?)
> >
> >Let's see, there was another time I got by by humming Om, to fill my
> ears
> >from the inside with a better sound. This worked really well. (I used
> one
> >with a lot of melody in it: om - mm -- o o o ooo uh mm.) Also
> visualized a
> >sort of bullet-proof plastic cylinder around me.
> >Don't remember if I used ear plugs too.
>
> :) Yes, that's cute. :) I observed one thing - watching TV upsets me and
> builds stress - but it is the sound, not the picture. When I turn off
> the
> sound, I immediately relax, muscles relax, it is OK. It is the sound
> that
> gets me involved, transfers that vibe to me.
>
> -----
> E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
> Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:51:48 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
CC: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: background noise
Message-ID: <34FA9D51.519ATnospamintercomm.com>
Why don't you do your meditation when you are alone and can be in that
pure place of frequency? That is when you have total quiet and can do
the kind of work you are directed to do. 3 Am is an excellent time for
this process. Gloria
Danijel Turina wrote:
>
> Hi Trent!
>
> At 09:04 1998.03.02 -0700, Vandyke T SSgt 355MSS/DPMPE wrote:
> >Hi Danijel and Mary, Trent here
> >
> > I think when your aura is up and bright folks are attracted to it.
> >They want to know "what does she have?" Granted some folks just want to
> >pick on things that are good and bright, (light always attracts shadow),
> >but that is part of the responsibility of having consciousness. Love
> >and service to our fellow man is the price we have to pay. If you give
> >to them, not begrudgingly or judgingly then you and they will benefit
> >from the exchange. Don't you think so? With regards to the
> >sensitivity, I think that comes with growth to. I think God is
> >preparing us to pick up on and sense more subtle energies.
> >Over-sensitivity to light and noise in our everyday environment is just
> >a by-product of this. Anyone else have a comment here?
>
> I can't agree with that; people I am talking about DON'T want to feel my
> energy, they want to change it, lower it because it is disturbing to their
> perceptions of "normal". It is very "amusing" when I concentrate on a
> subtle flow in my head and someone stands by me, stares stupidly and asks
> stupid questions waiting for me to answer, and doesn't stop disturbing me
> until I break my concentration, leave meditation, take energy pattern
> familiar to him, and respond. I hate this. Vampire stuff. It disturbs me
> only when I am refining energy flows, opening nadis. And even then, nothing
> matters that doesn't require my response, if I don't have to interact, it
> is perfectly OK. But if I have to interact, I have to do it in a "normal"
> way, with some mani-pura stuff. I am talking about turbo GTi primitive
> folks here, who think everything is OK only if they can ride their "poor
> me" and other victim vibes. :))
> About the folks who _want_ that vibe: it's a whole different thing. They
> don't even think about disturbing me, they get meditative themselves. I've
> witnessed that many times.
>
> -----
> E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
> Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:47:18 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com>
To: tg langston <tgxxxATnospamjuno.com>, kl List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Chanting ?'s-one more!
Message-ID: <34FB1AD7.11073C8BATnospamerols.com>
I do tend to shift consciousness rather easily, so I will be careful. Over
the years much of my best stuff has come while driving! :-)
Blessings,
Orea
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:44:47 +0100
From: Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
To: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: background noise
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980302224447.009bd460ATnospampop.tel.hr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:51 1998.03.02 +0100, Gloria Greco wrote:
>Why don't you do your meditation when you are alone and can be in that
>pure place of frequency? That is when you have total quiet and can do
>the kind of work you are directed to do. 3 Am is an excellent time for
>this process. Gloria
Yes, it would be great if it could be worked out Gloria. Unfortunately,
things are far from ideal here - for instance, in the last four days I
slept probably ten hours, I simply have no time, physically. And it is all
building up on me, you saw how snappy some of my messages here were. My
fuse is getting a bit short. :)) Anyway, in the middle of all this - it is
better not to count - I actually did manage to make some pretty nice
improvement on my crown nadis, so my sight of the inner space is less
clouded now. Things are moving, but if I tell you I worked on that in my
kitchen, behind PC, while expecting messages to come or reading some of
them, with my parents all over my back, and with DTP/scanning work on
Magneti Marelli technical service manuals for car electronics (I have to do
_something_ for a living:), you'll get the picture here. That's no asram
here, more like a psycho ward. :)))) LOL :))))
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:06:30 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: another quest..Candida??
Message-ID: <19980302220630.2388.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>In a message dated 98-03-01 18:24:49 EST, caradeepaATnospamhotmail.com
>writes:
>
> I was wondering if anyone has found a connection between=20
> Candida...and kundalini...
>
>I am also interested in this. I usually just lurk here in the hopes
>of learning more about Kundalini. I was diagnosed about 2 years ago
>with Candida, so the answer will be of interest to me also.
Glo asks..what are the symptoms of this that are "similar" to
Kundalini?? What is this disease anyway??>
>>
______________________
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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:28:17 -0500
From: "Rick Puravs" <ric51ATnospamgeorge.lhi.net>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: another quest..Candida??
Message-ID: <01bd462a$7fa480e0$1c21afcfATnospamhp-customer>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
you may want to check the archives on Candida/Candidiasis, as well as CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome).......there was a lot of stuff posted on this last
summer
>>In a message dated 98-03-01 18:24:49 EST, caradeepaATnospamhotmail.com
>>writes:
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone has found a connection between
>> Candida...and kundalini...
>>
>>I am also interested in this. I usually just lurk here in the hopes
>>of learning more about Kundalini. I was diagnosed about 2 years ago
>>with Candida, so the answer will be of interest to me also.
>
>Glo asks..what are the symptoms of this that are "similar" to
>Kundalini?? What is this disease anyway??>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:34:22 EST
From: Meadowart <MeadowartATnospamaol.com>
To: oreaATnospamerols.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Chanting ?'s-one more!
Message-ID: <803057b7.34fb33f0ATnospamaol.com>
Orea,
I chuckled when I read your post. I used to have a definite problem with
listening to chant tapes in my car. I would just go into this real zone and
stay there and wasn't quite sure if it was safe while driving or not. (.02
chant level in the blood, driving while ability impaired by spirit)
After awhile I got used to it and usually have a chant tape or two tucked
into my glove compartment for those days when I'm moved to listen to them.
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:06:53 PST
From: "Cara McCormack" <caradeepaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: candida kundalini
Message-ID: <19980303000654.23751.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ok....so what kind of serious things could be going on??? and what test
are you talking about?....Candida can be caused by taking too many
antibiotics....and other stuff....I believe the antibiotics play a huge
role in my sit......it throws the whole balance of good bacteria
off....so the yeast take over......and the immune system...can't fight
back...things get way thrown out of wack..
anyhow i gotta go
cara
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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:44:41 -0600
From: geoff mahoney <geoffmATnospamsihope.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <34FB5276.960B680CATnospamsihope.com>
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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:08:06 -0700
From: Stuart <stuartfATnospamdimensional.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Starting out, Kriya Yoga, Comments and questions
Message-ID: <34FB57F4.D91CED4DATnospamdimensional.com>
Just into my new disciplines for maybe a tad more then a month now.
I've noticed a few things about what I guess maybe Kundalini energy.
Perhaps not. I've basically skipped over the initial steps, though I've
read and understand them to the best of my ability and try at times to
behave according to the precepts.
The cool thing I've really gotten into is pranayama and chakra
meditation. Using both of these I can feel a good amount of energy
circulating in my crown. One day last week as I was working my way up
the spinal column through each chakra I got to the head and
...wow!!!...I know it wasn't a "major" breathrough but it felt like a
thousand tiny hands were massaging my head all at once. I've felt what
feel like a few "sparks" almost at the base of the spine but nothing of
any duration.
This letter may be a bit disjointed...bare with me. One thing I'm
wondering is the energy that I'm feeling, that is most likely just some
sort of "chakra" thing, not necessarily kundalini? Another thing I
noticed in my meditation of sitting in each chakra and ascending and
descending through each on the spine. The base(muladhara) and
svadihistani (big spelling mistake probably)seem to be somewhat
difficult in imagining resting in the center of. I'm figuring this is a
matter of practice of visualization and conciousness moving. At the same
time though I question whether imagining myself seated in the chakra is
actually bringing me into that energy? If that makes sense.
On another note, has anyone heard of the term "kundali"? I read it
somewhere and believe it to be the male aspect of k but I don't think
it's common.
Peace
Stuart
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:53:23 EST
From: CKRESS <CKRESSATnospamAOL.COM>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment?
Message-ID: <465e7939.34fb6295ATnospamaol.com>
Richard wrote:
> Some comments about 'enlightenment':
>
> 1. Most role models for the state have been dead a very long time. This
> means we know far more about their mythology than we do about them as
> people.
>
> 2. It's incredibly easy to be a teacher, and to teach stuff that you
> haven't really mastered.
>
> 3. It's incredibly easy to start a religion, and to get people to believe
> completely ridiculous things.
>
> 4. A very easy way to appear wise is to persistently wrong-foot people's
> expectations. If you're fairly bright and fairly creative it's not a hard
> thing to do. Whether or not it has any spiritual value is debatable. I
> rather suspect it doesn't, but that's just my opinion.
>
> Personally I don't believe there's any such thing as enlightenment.
> Certainly not in the sense of waking up one day and getting 'it', and
> everything being totally fab and groovy in a spiritual sense from then on.
> When it comes to looking for teachers I'm more impressed by those who've
> led a full life and have overcome any number of handicaps, than those who
> waft around in robes on clouds of incense looking gnomic and inscrutable
> and speaking in impressive-sounding but meaninglessly vague cosmic
absolutes.
Yes yes yes! I was going to respond to Richard's post privately, but I
decided to put myself back on the firing line because I think his points are
worth repeating.
I'd been feeling morose because the over all "spiritual community" has long
seemed to me to be so ossified with dogma, task masters and rules ("no
negativity" and eggshell-treading politeness at the cost of honesty) that it
is rendered essentially heartless, souless and gutless. Thank you, Richard,
for restoring my hope.
Speaking with authenticity is as difficult as living with it. It doesn't roll
off the tongue in easy platitudes or convoluted esotericisms. It is a naked,
searing thing which comes forth with no motive but to be born. All words are
failures at the altar of the Spirit. Talking about it is inevitably false.
Communicating from within it is rare, almost impossible. Rilke came close
when he wrote: "I am circling around God, around the ancient tower, and I
have been circling for a thousand years, and I still don't know if I am a
falcon, or a storm, or a great song."
El
PS I, ckress, would like to add my support to the messages expressed above.
(El & I share the same email address)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:09:28 -0800
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
RichardATnospamskydancer.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment?
Message-ID: <34FB9E98.73EFATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Harsha1MTM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-03-02 11:36:53 EST, umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca writes:
>
> << Richard Wentk wrote:
>
> > Personally I don't believe there's any such thing as enlightenment.
> > Certainly not in the sense of waking up one day and getting 'it', and
> > everything being totally fab and groovy in a spiritual sense from then on.
>
> Jerry wrote: I guess not. It's extreme and would require extreme conditions.
> >>
>
> Harsha kindly asks: Brother Jerry, what are extreme conditions? Does Knowing
> the Self as The Core of Reality an extreme condition? Does Knowing One's Self
> depend on extreme conditions or Near Death experiences etc. How could it be?
> How could the Natural State depend on "Other" events or conditions.
Hi Harsha. How you doin? Let's see here. I was just saying that to wake
up one day and find yourself enlightened might be unusual. It reminded
me of the case I gave reference to about John Wren-Lewis. Yes, the
so-called Natural State is not dependent upon anything. To say it is
dependent upon something indicates it is not the nondual reality.
Nondual Reality or The Natural State is called that. That's not what it
is. You can't say what it is. Yet The Sage or Master is supposed to say
or give hints as to what it is. That is dilemma in my book.
> In one of
> your earlier messages you said the Enlightened one faces a profound Dilemma in
> terms of how to transmit his message and is a master pretender.
I'm not saying I'm a Sage or anything at all, but when I communicate
anything I am an expresser of Divine Superficiality.
Right now this is dilemma. Don't get me wrong. If I am sincere, that
sincerity is real. So is the honesty. Also my caring for you and others
I have come to know recently. I bow to you people who have touched me
and who have allowed me to touch you.
My dilemma is that I cannot give my real teaching. Because, as you know,
it is not a teaching, it is not real, it cannot be given. That puts me
in a hell of a dilemma. I don't know about you.
But I say the
> Sage has absolutely no Dilemma. The Sage is not a pretender nor is He deluded.
> There is no confusion about the nature of right conduct. There is absolutely
> no interest in psychic powers or the desire to demonstrate such. There is no
> confusion about the nature of Kundalini Shakti. There is no confusion about
> how to transmit the Knowledge of the Self. The Sage has very little to say but
> says it clearly and precisely. He says it again and again.
Sorry, dear Harsha, although our very bottom-line knowledge is likely
identical and we reside there together and not at all as separate
individuals (and that's all that matters anyway), the real nature of The
Sage is not different than the nature of The Absolute or The Natural
Condition. The Sage is not confused. He just lives in dilemma. He is
perfectly comfortable with that dilemma. The dilemma of the
unenlightened one is what suffering is. The Sage is not suffering. He
knows exactly what He is doing. It's okay that He lives in dilemma.
The Sage deals with unenlightened people. He cannot treat unenlightened
people as he would enlightened people. It's plain and simple. Because He
cannot communicate The Absolute, yet must communicate some godforsaken
thing in this godforsaken life, He is a practitioner of Divine
Superficiality and living in dilemma.
Please see that. Okay, there may be Sages or Enlightened Ones affiliated
with some tradition, and they repeat certain wonderful things, whatever,
and they know how to bring someone to knowledge of the Self. That, more
than anything, is an expression of Divine Superficiality. The Sage,
witnessing the devotee come to the Enlightened condition remains
unmoved. It is the way it is. The Sage, witnessing the devotee slip on a
banana peel, laughs his ass off.
Continually being revered for communicating the quality of Divine
Superficiality, The Sage or Master eventually tires of it. That's when
things can start going strange.
Therefore, respect and use kundalini, but do not revere it; kundalini,
too, is Divine Superficiality; and respect and grow from The Sages, but
remember they too represent Divine Superficiality. Keep respecting, keep
using, and keep moving deeper until you live from the disposition of The
Absolute or The Natural Condition. And then see if you are not living a
most manageable, confusion-free, suffering-free dilemma.
With gratitude,
Jerry
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:50:36 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, RichardATnospamskydancer.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment?
Message-ID: <7b6a9d21.34fb7e17ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-02 21:06:00 EST, umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca writes:
<< Hi Harsha. How you doin? Let's see here. I was just saying that to wake
up one day and find yourself enlightened might be unusual.
Harsha writes: Why? If you wake up from sleep it might be unusual. But if you
wake up while you are awake it would not be.
Jerry: Yet The Sage or Master is supposed to say
or give hints as to what it is. That is dilemma in my book.
Where is the Dilemma? Does the Sage not say "Wake Up!"
Jerry: Right now this is dilemma. Don't get me wrong. If I am sincere, that
sincerity is real. So is the honesty. Also my caring for you and others
I have come to know recently. I bow to you people who have touched me
and who have allowed me to touch you.
Harsha : All right. Have your bows.
Jerry: My dilemma is that I cannot give my real teaching.
Harsha: It is all right. Do not remain in your Dilemma (unless you are very
much hung up on this word!).
Jerry: Because, as you know,
it is not a teaching, it is not real, it cannot be given. That puts me
in a hell of a dilemma. I don't know about you.
Harsha: All right Jerry. Have it your way. Stay in the dilemma if you like
(as long as you wish). You asked about me. Do not be disappointed but I have
absolutely no dilemma!
Harsha wrote earlier: But I say the
> Sage has absolutely no Dilemma. The Sage is not a pretender nor is He
deluded.
> There is no confusion about the nature of right conduct. There is
absolutely
> no interest in psychic powers or the desire to demonstrate such. There is
no
> confusion about the nature of Kundalini Shakti. There is no confusion about
> how to transmit the Knowledge of the Self. The Sage has very little to say
but
> says it clearly and precisely. He says it again and again.
snip.........I snipped the rest Jerry. It is too much to make the list read
it again. Hopefully they have your first post and have saved it.....Best
wishes Jerry.
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