Abuse poll

A list member wrote in a message dated 6/23/00
<< Both of them were emotionally abusive to each other and the rest of our family. My mother was physically abusive to me too >>

AND,

In a message dated 6/21/00 4:17:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, another list member writes:

<< During that early experiences of myself being discarded, thrown away literally, I discovered that the only thing that is the truth is that death does not exist.... that was my discovery... Also I, the self, was not affected.. >>


The sensitive issue of Child Abuse has been an undercurrent on this list over the years. I believe it to be one of the "triggers" to later awakening.
Question: Were you abused as a child? What form did this abuse take?

How did you deal with this abuse?

Do you think it was the primary reason for your K awakening?

Please feel free to E-mail me privately.



Abuse Poll

Abuse Poll results
Date: 6/29/00

There were 21 responses to this Poll. 15 people replied Yes and 6 replied No.

Question: What form did this abuse take?

Physical 11
Sexual/Incest 10
Emotional 8
Rejection/Abandonment/Neglect 5
Psychological/Mental/Intellectual 5
Verbal 2
Demonic/Ritual 2

Excerpts:

I was abused when I was 12, and again when I was 17. I originally saw it as a sexual invasion, but later realized it was a power/control issue. Both individuals were men of high standing in different churches; the latter was the minister. No, not catholic; presbyterian and multi- denomiational liberal protestantism. They used basically the same script; targeting and then programming me as an isolated pre-teen or teen, and then providing me the cameraderie I desperately needed.

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Phyisical, emotional, sexual and I beleive intellectual. I'll try to explain the last one as I'm not sure about it. I was a high IQ child, reading fluently at five, which is when my memories start, ( prior to 5 it's a blank) and I can remember being introduced to paradox repeatedly in a way that was supposed to develop my mind and perhaps it did, but subjectively it felt like my mental gears were seizing up and it hurt.
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Yes, father beat me daily, used to give myself contests to see if I could make it less than 3 times a day without crying or being physically abused. I was left in that cold bathroom for over 24 hours, probably a couple of days. I drank the cold stream of water from the bathroom faucets . I stayed quiet in that bathroom, just me and the light strreaming into the little window. Watching the dust playing in the rays, they became my friends and playmates. I waiting for death with an open mouth and an open heart and felt wonderful. Hunger went away, fear gone. 12 more hours and the door was pushed open. there I was, sitting quietly with my little new friend, the sunlight. He got scared, said I looked weird, like an angel. sitting in the sunbeam.
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I was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused and rejected as a child..

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Yes, beatings, sexual abuse.

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I dunno how my mom pulled it off, but she had an eligible & wealthy UPI photojournalist pick her up from Dammasch Hospital (of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' fame), & they picked me up from my dad's new "family". My dad's new wife had despised me, & her 3 daughters from another marriage were always favored. I would tell my dad she was lying so she could lock me up in a room by myself for days, after beating me for sh*t she would make up out of her head, & when my dad came home he would also beat me. He never believed me, he believed her.
After a long string of Catholic schools in 4 different states, when I became of puberty, he threw out my mom (who was strung out on speed & really WAS an edgey bitch), & began sexually abusing me. I was put in the place to be mother to my 2 little sisters, very young then, & I was only 13 & 14. Sexual abuse every night, beatings & almost killing me by day, making me pose nude for him,

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Yes,horrible life threatening.

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i was emotionally and physically abused by the man my mother married from the age of 11 to 18. I was also spiritually and psychically tortured by demonic oppression from 12 to early 20s; also include sexual molestation by dark entities. I believed I was insane and at times was suicidal.

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I was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused as a child by an older brother and neglected by my parents.

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Unless you consider having to sit in church and listen to a hate-filled preacher scream that we were all sinners who were going to hell, no. If so, then yes. But not inside my family or by my family's acquaintances, friends, or strangers, and not direct physical abuse... The preachings scared me terribly though and I did feel scarred by the really dysfunctional ideas this ranting and raving man had to say...I never understood why my grandparents and parents wanted to go to church to hear this shit.

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Emotionally yes. Not sure about anything else.
I tend to believe now that yes I was abused and so were others in my family. But it was a part of some type of ritual abuse, and I can not remember. it was exploring these ideas in
my mind that seemed to trigger my spontaneous kundalini event. I believe that the reaction of my family to lock me up in a mental hospital was their way of shutting up anyone who brought up the possibility of abuse in the family. This in and of itself is quite abusive. I believe that the ritual abuse was sexual but also involved programming.
I only wish that the abuse was clear cut and clearly remembered, then I could heal and move on. But we all have some purpose in living out our lives.

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Add me to your yes list, in the physical, emotional, and sexual categories.

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Mental, emotional, physical and occassionally sexual. I was often told things like 'you should have been strangled at birth', was chased round the house, throttled - where I thought I would be murdered. Most childhood illnesses were always treated with an enema administered by my father - this was his panacea for all ills.
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There was a great deal of various abuses in my background, but I believe the effects of incest & other sexual abuse left the most harmful scars for me to overcome.

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Question: How did you deal with this abuse?

Excerpts:

I initially saw these as sexual events. I doubted my sexuality, then experimented for a few years. I eventually came back to my current hetero standing.
The events forced me to think about stuff rather deeply and carefully. I learned to take the words and beliefs people say and doubt them without that affecting my attitude against people. Basically, you can say I had to grow up emotionally; since this was such an embarrassment, I went through the whole transition alone. Of the 3 people I've ever discussed this with, only one was of assistance, and only because they'd gone through the same abuse (different type, same impact).

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Dissociation. I think this is what Angelique refers to as the witness state. For me it was 'get out of body pretty damm quick' I observed as if it were happening to someone else.

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I invented games, I went into myself, I left my body, I traveled to other places, I sometimes went to a church and stared at pictures of Mary and felt her presence inside of me and her strength. She has always been with me and is now. She became my mother and my being to replace the one I had but was too afraid to be.
I lost all fear of death, I have no fears today except for the compassion of the wrongs done to others. I am too removed to be affected. I don't have an ego, it died in the bathroom.
Physically, I became very strong and a good fighter. I don't know how this happened but I think it was a gift of goddess so I could protect myself.

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I stopped feeling and seeing. I shut down completely.

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Repressing it, and subconsciously passing it on to others... (attempting to do to others what was done to me) The sexual abuse almost, luckily it could stop at the platonic form, was soooo close though, thank God for the help I got. The beating, just one time beat my son and that scared the hell out of me... Got me to start transforming myself...

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Dealt with it by learning to speak telepathically with my fraternal twin , leaving the body as an empty corpse and physical surgeries in later years to correct bodily trauma.

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I discovered the Witness State. I could dispassionately remove myself from the abuse and become the objective observer. I learned I was more than my body or my experiences. Fortunately, I did not fractionate into multiple personalities. If I had not found the Witness State I think I would have. I learned to travel to other dimensions with my spirit.

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I minimized it; it was no big deal. I didn't really even know it wasn't okay for people to treat me that way. Once when my brother was beating me up in the living room, my mother was in the kitchen. Afterward, I went in and asked her why she didn't do anything. She said I had to be tough. So I always thought the problem was that I wasn't tough enough; I still do. I still have trouble just allowing myself to feel my feelings; instead I try to be "tough". plggh!

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I became a super sensitive child, "the good example" kid...

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i dealt with the abuse by withdrawing into myself.

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I closed down completely and hardened myself to the world. I spent my teenage years being permanently depressed and often considering suicide myslef. I dont think i did 'deal' with it at the time of the abuse as I was unable to. In my early twenties I began to seek help for myself, whether it be books, meditation etc.
I think k. was going through partial awakenings at this point. I finally went for therapy a few years later - which I think was mainly important simply for admitting to another human being how fucked up I had become, as I had tried desparately to keep a very polished exterior for many years whilst dying inside.
Therapy helped to a degree. But I now realise that I was experiencing many early k. symptoms, heat, emotional torrents, exhaustion, depression.
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Question: Do you think it was the primary reason for your K awakening?

Yes 6
No 3
I don't think so/I don't know 3

This was not the primary reason for my awakening. It tilled the ground, forcing me to wake up and take an active part in my life. It showed me that life may not be what I think it is. It didn't cause my awakening, though. Neither did my NDE. Neither did my years of meditation.
I'm beginning to think that awakening happens at its particular season, regardless of what you do. All these things may facilitate the process, and certain attitudes and practices will provide greater acceptance and an easier ride, but you can't make a seed a tree unless it's ready.

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Yes in that some of the stuff I've learned about K seemed to be happening for me for as long as I can remember, but I think I had a block at the throat that one day got 'blown away' and now it goes up and down freely instead of taking a more snaky route.

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Yes, that and severe Rheumatic fever, pronouced dead also around 6 years old, but had NDE -

I became a detached servant of Goddess, she has always been with me. and now he is gone, and I am fine, and I am here feeling her energy. therapy did wonders, had an angel, Mark, no longer needing to be Kali, now took the form of one called Hillary [this is no relation :) ]
Thank Goddess for my experiences that awakened me.

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Yes, it was awaken or leave my body. I chose to awaken.

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Yes!

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Yes, it did drive me to yoga & meditation, only I had blocked out my whole childhood & including my 20's & '30's, & have only recently. the past couple years, have begun to remember. All that crap which was *stuffed* for survival's sake has begun the process of pain & torture that I had no time for, until recently. Every little trigger - I cannot even be in love with anyone because I am overwhelmed with the emotional pain I need to go thru & purge. Sometimes all it takes is a smile... Because I really want to go out & have fun deep inside, but won't let myself. I guess it's the *adult* & *inner child*relations. My *adult* tortures me by the reclusiveness & total isolation from people. Even when I want to mingle, it's totallyt theatre arts any joy I might glean.
Writing this has helped relieve the tension of abandonment & isolation.

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This had nothing to do with Kundalini.

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Don't think so...it certainly drove me inside myself. I received Shakitpat almost 15 years later.

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I don't know, but I really hate this question. I would rather have had a happier childhood and be a shallow but happy person than to have gone through that. I think there are better ways or reasons for a K awakening, like having mentors, etc. To actually answer the question, it seems to me like when no one is there for you, you learn to find the resources within and/or develop more of a connection to the spiritual world, because the physical world isn't meeting your needs. At this point, I am started to feel clearer and more connected. In other ways, many ways, I feel like the abuse cut me off from my essence and I severely limited my experiences because of fear. What I knew what pretty scary, so maybe what I didn't know would be even worse, so I have stuck pretty close to home in geography or social life. Only recently, I am starting to try flutterin my wings a little. It's pretty scary sometimes, but other times it's wonderful.

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It does not seem that it was the primary reason for K awakening. But major blocks in the flow of energy through the chakras will tend to back up and result in the self-healing process of kundalini releases. If one is sensitive and 'spiritual' in nature, whether by genes or past-lives or whatever frame of reference one wants to use, then if one is abused and causes a disruption in this flow then it seems a spontaneous k awakening makes sense. I do not believe it is caused by the abuse - or that all abused souls will react that way.
But in another way of answering this question - yes the abuse was the primary factor in the sense of otherwise i might have been brought up in a nurturing environment and might have strong k flow without really ever recognizing it as K. The abuse created a dam - K burst through -

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I don't know. I had removed a hell of alot of blocks during therapy and mainly working on myself by myself. I fell into a very deep depression for several weeks which culminated in great shifts of energy and emotional blocks which went through the whole chakra spectrum in about a 2-day period and finalised with energy bursting out of me in every direction with the feeling of expanding beyond myself like a balloon - I had no idea that this might be k. at the time - once the fear of this experience subsided, utter bliss took over and i felt so incredibly and totally alive for the first time in my life.
Therapy then became superflous as my therapist became baffled with now ever-present body jerking that I was experiencing and intense heat and other (what I now know to be) k.symptoms.
I do wonder if removing a great amount of crap, opened me up enough to allow k. through.

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Other remarks:

I've heard a number of people theorize that survivors of abuse have an advantage in spiritual attainment because they learn early the skill of leaving the body. Staying grounded during the abuse would mean emotional death so they figure out how to leave and, therefore, get glimpses of other worlds

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I marvel at human resilience! I can't begin to know how I would have managed or "turned out." I get an image of a wider, deeper chasm in the self with abuse (and other such atrocities). A wider chasm to face, to figure out how to cross, to build a bridge from the heart to the universe. Maybe the Warrior Suit helps for a while, eh?

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One can look at this in several ways - if you believe that all is as it should be - then it was just part of the grand plan you had when arranged this lifetime - (lessons learned etc). If on the other hand you believe that there are competing forces and that just like in a chess game a move results in a counter move then - abuse could be a way of trying to stop those who are spiritual or to turn them into abusers.

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I have practice shamanic healing (Harner method style) for around twenty years, and one of the techniques is called soul retrieval. When a person undergoes a very traumatic experience, a part of the person (we call "soul-fragment") leaves; a protection mechanism to escape further damage.

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I knew a woman who was even more neglected than I was; This woman's spiritual connection seemed much clearer and stronger, to the point of hearing voices, etc.

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One of the things that many have a hard time understanding was why I say that there is a place for hatred and that neither G-d nor I will just accept everyone unconditionally.

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You don't. God Does.

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This problem is much more widespread than most realize or will admit. Often others who know about it will not put a stop to it because they don't want to expose a family member. What is most unfortunate is that often yesterday's victims become tomorrow's perpetrators.

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All this has made me wonder abut a couple of things. One of them is if childhood abuse somehow correlates with troublesome k-awakening. I had a relatively good childhood and my "awakening" has been quite pleasent. Mainly intellectual problems. I wonder how much a "devoted" or "whole-hearted" attitude play role int the process. If someone is abused in childhood it might be (at least sometimes) easier to devote oneself to Somehting More Holy, God / Love / Any Higher. The intensity is higher than usaually but there migh be more emotional controversies? More k-symptoms? Could it be that the inner spirit is more responsive to the intensity for deeper / better life then it is to ány mental frameworks?

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There seems to be an effortless, easy going "life is good" energy in most people who have had supportive families of origin, regardless of how tough their current situation may be. Conversely, no matter how well we're doing now or how much healing we've undergone, those of us who endured a painful childhood have an element of struggle or a sharp-edged quality in our personalities. I think an abusive background develops a degree of warrior energy in the psyche. We had to fight for our existence, for our right to be here. I feel this energy even in abuse survivors who adopt very optimistic life philosophies.

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I've just had an epiphany about this facet of my growth My epiphany, btw? It's the sexual vs control nature of this whole series of events. The abuse had nothing to do with me; it was those guys and their non-The abuse had nothing to do with me; it was those guys and their non-appropriate ways to exhibit their influence in life.

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For several years I was the contact person for an incest survivor group. People unwilling to attend a group were often willing to talk on the phone...so they'd call me. Most of them would want me to share "my story". I soon learned that this made them doubt their own recovery, thinking their stories weren't as credible as mine because their details weren't as bad or horrible as mine (kind of like, poor poor me, & shame on them for even thinking their abuse was bad.)

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Now when a memory surfaces I try hard to hold and comfort my younger self and cry the tears that belong to a previous time, sort of like catching up. So I wrap my arms around myself, and rock myself gently and weep what feels like an unshed ocean and pray for healing. And I salute all who ever and where ever and when ever find themselves doing the same.
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There is a buddhist quote I like but cant remember exactly (please feel free to correct me!) something about the greatest lotus growing from the muddiest waters... which makes me think about survivors of abuse.

Love to all abused or unabused!

END

I want to thank you all for participating both publicly and privately. I'm rather speechless as to how brave you all have been and continue to be.

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Addendum

> Ask a diabetic how important the feeling of pain is when his/her nerve endings have been destroyed by high blood sugar. There are major lifestyle modifications required when one feels no physical pain.
> Emotional pain....hmmm...another kettle of fish altogether...

Hi ...

I gnow very little about the medical approach to pain. Your comment helps me to understand a little about my father's situation as he got older. He got the kind of diabetes some say comes from advanced aging. He died when he was 88. He was in the bed a lot in the last few years, though he didn't really have any ailments. They said his brain has shrunk, and although he was lucid at times, his activities were reduced to child-like activities, as was his memory. You gnow.

The interesting thing was that he experienced no pain. I asked him frequently, and he always replied in the negative. He seemed surprised when I asked. Maybe his nerve endings had been destroyed by the diabetes, but he never was really sick, just old.

My father was my teacher. He was a teacher by profession, as was my mother, and his mother before him. Our relationship was based on pain. Primarily emotional pain on his part and passed on to me physically. It started in the cradle and continued until I was big enough to resist. Violence seemed to be a tradition in his family. There were times when I had to be taken to the Doctor to be treated. I learned to tolerate physical pain. I don't seem threatened by it. Emotional pain, however, is something I seem to have had to learn to cope with on my own. I think my father protected me from that until I went out on my own. It was a hard thing to learn, but not as difficult as mental pain.

Physical and emotional pain, in my life, can be imposed by others, whereas mental pain seems to be something one does to themselves.

> That must have been hellish! Interesting that you
> were/are aware enough to be able to see your father's
> emotional pain as the cause of his violence. Or was it
> mental pain by any chance? Interesting distinction you
> make. As you probably know, there are a number of people
> on the list who were badly abused as children.

Hi ...

Yeah, I thought I was special. LOL!!

Actually, within my natal family... I was. I had two older sisters and two younger brothers and while they did get whippings as punishment, they never got beatings like I did. The girls were, after all, girls. And the beatings my brothers saw me get probably changed their lives. They're all fine, upstanding citizens now.

It would be difficult to say that I understand it. I saw things from my perspective, and not even then until much later in retrospect. I suspect this situation dictated how I lived my life. I was always dealing with it and attempting to find middle ground.

The major impact of this upbringing happened later when I got married and had kids of my own. I've been married twice and had one girl child from the first marriage and two more girls from the second marriage. There was an incident in both situations that caused me to leave the relationships.

In the first marriage, when the girl was three months old, she woke up several times and my wife got up to tend to her. The third time she asked me to see what I could do because she was extremely tired. I got up and calmed the baby three times, but the fourth time I lost it and picked the child up and slammed her back into her bed screaming "Shut up!" She wasn't hurt, but I left three days later.

I gnew better than to marry again, but the woman got pregnant and I felt obligated to marry her because I gnew she would get an abortion if I didn't. It wouldn't have been the first time. We did good for about 7-8 years, and had another child. We went through the LaMaze thing and I saw both of them born. I loved all of them very much.

One day the oldest girl did something that made me mad, and suddenly I grabbed her by the arm and swatted her on the butt. It was much harder than it needed to be, and a month later I destroyed that marriage. I couldn't stand the thought of my own children having to go through what I did, and I gnew that if I stayed it probably would have. These things get passed down the line.

I've been alone since then and often wonder if fate wasn't at play in this charade. I only thought I was a recluse in my younger years. My natal family, while kind to me and tolerant because they knew what happened, think that everything that happened was my fault, and it was. My ex-wives and children think it was my fault and have nothing to do with me, and they're right to do so.

I can't really blame my father. He got it from his father and passed it on down to me as if it was my birthright. At least he confined the really rough stuff to me.

He did a lot of good for a lot of people. When he was buried his former students, most of them prominent political figures, were his pall-bearers and bought him a wreath with a banner that said, "Teacher of Teachers". These people also thought I was an ungrateful and wretched son, and never gnew what happened behind closed doors.

I can't say I am free of blaming. I guess I still harbor resentment for my mother. She didn't try to stop him, and in fact was pretty relieved it was me instead of her. She was the one, along with my older sisters, who would be waiting at the door when he came home from work to sic him on me, and then stood around to watch with sparkling, smirking eyes as he laid it on me. They liked it. I guess it was quite a show.

All his life my father tried to tell me about her. I wouldn't listen to him because she was my mother.

When he was dying I was the only one of his children who would go help her with him, and after he died I stayed with her for over two years because the doctors would not let her live alone.

It was during this time that I saw things in a different light. I saw what drove him insane with anger. There were times in her illness that she thought I was my father, her husband, and she would have conversations with me as if I were him about the little bastard she thought I was that had caused all the trouble. I came to realize it wasn't really my father so much that did the real damage. Like with my father, maybe when she dies, I will forgive her too.

I guess I was supposed to gnow these things, but it really hurt me worse than all the beatings, but not as much as having to let my own children go to prevent the same thing from happening to them. They're okay. Resentful and angry because I wasn't there for them, but pretty good people... or so I've heard from others. ;-)