kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 245 

Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Celtic crows. 

The Crow or the Raven is the symbol of the destroyer/warrior aspect 
of Morrrigan.. or Macha.
the Warrior female goddess type from ancient celtic history.  
flute
aka
carolyn



Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 
From: Dolce Vita 
Subject: Re: Intro/How to tell if it is K?/ head sensations
-
Hi,
I understand exactly what you are going through, I had k awakening about 
7 months ago and I did not know what kriyas were and not much at all 
about kundalini. I got shaktipat from a guru, that became my guru. I get 
shakes, energy flows, all kinds of manifestations. I believe you got it 
too. I got my head shaking from side to side and I did not know that 
other people experienced the same until i went to the Ashram and saw a 
lot of people with the same movements. I confess that at the beginning I 
thought that I had been possesed by some strange force that moved my 
body but at the same time it felt wonderful. 
If you have a guru, the path becomes safer. I personally go to the 
Siddha Yoga center here in Miami, and I meditate daily. This yoga is 
complete, it encompasses all the other yogas and it is a very safe path.
We have mantra that we got from our lineage that I repeat at the 
beginning of my meditation.
If you want more information let me know.
In love and light,
Lissette

-

Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Gloria Greco)
Subject: Re: Intro/How to tell if it is K?/ head sensations

Xochi Basmati wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
>         I'm Xochi and I'm a newbie to the list.  I'm a regular meditator,
> college student, and would describe myself as an aspiring mystic, scholar,
> and/or musician depending on what path my life takes.  I have had interest
> in kundalini for quite a while, but only recently I have been inspired to
> join a list in serch for more information.  I also have interests in Reiki,
> yoga, and alternative healing methods.
> 
>         I was wondering if anyone could clear up a question I have been
> pondering.  How do you know that it is K?  Recently I had an experience of a
> really, deep emotional release.  This was marked by a flow of love, empathy,
> and  perspective of life that stressed my spiritual goals.  I then began
> meditating and instantly my arm and hands started shaking intensely. My
> stomach muscles soon followed.  This sensation then spread rapidly
> throughout my whole body in a very intense fashion.  My whole body was
> extremely tensed and vibrating and the intensity of the whole experience
> increased.  The question is was this K?  I was not aware of an upward flow
> of energy from the spine which seem to be an important indicator of K.
> Could if have been another type of energy.  It seem to be similar to the
> reports of "kriyas,"  because of its convulsing, out of control properties.
>         Also I have been expericing sensations in my head that sound similar
> to Jim B.'s post.  Are these common sensations among you who have
> experienced K awakening?
>         Best wishes,
>            --Xochi

HI, 
	I'm Gloria, check out my homepage at http://www.inetworld.com/lodpress/
	You are likely awakening the energy but at this point take your mind
off of it and put it into alignment with divine will, this way if it is
the preparation work you will be doing the correct movement for the
awakening. When people get all thought involved in it, it is like going
backwards, if you know what I mean. Center down on knowing that God
within, and asking to be shown. Gloria



Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Breakthrough

This may be a minor stepping stone to some, it is a major one for me. 
For as long as I can remember, I have recognized my inability to SEE 
people in the sense of looking past the facade of appearance to the 
person inside. Especially difficult has been the facade presented by 
deformity, race, etc. This is not uncommon; is rather the rule than the 
exception with all of us. It is just that I have seen it in myself so 
often and tried to intellectually overcome it with no success. 
Suddenly, within the past few days it has happen three times and 
without the intercession of intellect. This is a development that 
pleases my soul and mind and I thought I would share what I have seen.

Standing in line at the grocers I noted a 60ish woman come up behind 
me. She was accompanied by two men. I could tell they were brothers, 6' 
plus, 40's, large frames. They were being a bit noisy and I could tell 
that they had been promised their choice of candy at the checkstand if 
they behaved by the woman; their mother. I could sense their happiness 
at having controlled themselves and wonderous indecision as they 
touched each candy bin one by one. Their bodies were connected directly 
to their emotions with little in the way of intellect as a filter like 
orangutans. In this little scene of success, happiness, etc. I had 
completely overlooked (looked beyond) the fact that these two men were 
profoundly mentally challenged and instead into who and what they were.

Driving down the freeway, I looked over to a vehicle that I was passing 
and the driver caught my eye. Deeply furrowed aquiline features, 
perfectly coifed white, wavy hair, aged but perfectly smooth skin, 
piercing eyes. I felt his long and troubled life, his current concern 
about the health problem of his life's partner, about how it was going 
to separate them shortly, how he was the support of the both of them 
and had to keep his head together to continue to work despite how this 
was pressing on him. I empathized with him and felt all of his worries 
and sorrows. AND it only occurred to me afterwards that this man was a 
veritable stereotype of the aging, gay queen. I did not see his 
homosexuality first, but rather the person INSIDE.

At the gym I had just gotten out of the jacuzzi and was heading for a 
cooldown in the pool when I noticed the only person (at 4:30 am) in the 
pool. A Chinese woman, thin, frail, with three pronounced hanging 
fleshy circles under each eye, deathly pallorous skin, a shock of pure, 
white, birthmarked hair in her otherwise black, chopped-short hair. 
She, too, was so lonely, had born a lifetime of woes, and had come 
through them damaged but unbowed. I could tell that her husband was 
dead, yet she had children, they had American attitudes and did not 
revere her as was her due by custom, that she knew this was the way it 
was to be and accepted it in the joy of knowing the success of her 
children here in this new world. As I entered the water, she 
immediately stopped her water-walking, came over to me smiling and we 
had a cheery conversation that I think neither of us actually 
understood. I had SEEN another human being, again.

This is an account of overcoming prejudice - prejudice exists to 
protect us, to help us identify otherness, to separate that which is 
familiar and generally safe from that which is unfamiliar and 
potentially harmful. Overcoming this most natural of human behaviors 
would require intellect by my earlier assumptions, yet it operates on 
an emotional level. I am not sure how I have started to look past these 
things, but it was not on an intellectual level. This makes me think 
that legislating 'affirmative action' is simply putting a bandage on a 
problem that has deeper roots and is trying to repair it at a level at 
which no such result is possible. Just some thoughts, and experiences.

Love and LAUGHING LIGHT,
Dan-RF



Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: debi 
Subject: Breakthrough

At 04:09 AM 11/20/96 -0800, you wrote:
-
>This is an account of overcoming prejudice - prejudice exists to 
>protect us, to help us identify otherness, to separate that which is 
>familiar and generally safe from that which is unfamiliar and 
>potentially harmful. Overcoming this most natural of human behaviors 
>would require intellect by my earlier assumptions, yet it operates on 
>an emotional level. I am not sure how I have started to look past these 
>things, but it was not on an intellectual level. This makes me think 
>that legislating 'affirmative action' is simply putting a bandage on a 
>problem that has deeper roots and is trying to repair it at a level at 
>which no such result is possible. Just some thoughts, and experiences.
>
>Love and LAUGHING LIGHT,
>Dan-RF

Dan,
What a wonderful writer - and such beautiful stories.
Congradulations on your "breakthrough".
I disaggree, however, on the statement, "Predjudice exists to
protect us" , this most "natural" of human behaviours.
-
No, No, and NO!

Children are not born predjudice - it is not until they "learn"
this "natural" behaviour that they even realize a "difference".
And predjudice does not protect us - it separates us and denies us
the opportunity to know others - their cultures, their beliefs, theri
experiences.  It calls for a hierarchy system - "I must be protected
from ______ because they are different".
 How many people on this list fit into the "unfamiliar
and potentially harmful" category? I am Jewish - is that one?
You listed "gay queen" - is he potentially harmful?

Every year I am a volunteer nurse/advisor for Camp Anytown - a
week long camp put on by National COnference of Christains and Jews.
We have kids from every culture group, every religious group, etc.
We do a day of Physical Handicap, to experience and understand (and
have a handicapped person in to answer questions - last year was a 
teen who had been in a horrible accident - leaving this All-AMerican
guy physically and mentally challenged - but fortunately NOT potentially
dangerous!
We learn we are all the same race - HUMAN - so the predjudices begin
to melt away as the Universaliaty (sp?) brings us as one!

There is a new news group - neo-Natzi - beginning on the net - to teach
hate to the young ones - I will forward that letter to this group -
and hopefully realize that predjudice is not natural, but THAT is 
potentially dangerous!

That is my belief - am interested in hearing others!
Thanks, 
Namaste,
debi 



Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: debi 
Subject: Neo-Nazis on the Internet

-
>
>   A group of NEO-NAZIS are trying to form a newsgroup on Usenet
>called "rec.music.white-power", so that they can get their message of
>hate out to young people using the Internet.
>
>Newsgroups are public discussions on the Internet and their formation
>requires enough support from the Internet community.
>
>EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US HAS ONE VOTE when it comes to creating a new
>Usenet group.  I hope you will vote NO and thereby tell these NAZIS
>we don't want their stuff on the net. Below is the procedure, please
>repost this plea and get the NO vote out. If you want to see the
>official call for votes, you can try on "news.group".
>
>       DO NOT VOTE TWICE - that would constitute voting fraud.
>
>       HOW TO VOTE:
>
>       Send e-mail (posts to newsgroups are invalid) to:
->
>         music-voteATNOSPAMsub-rosa.com
>
>      This is an impartial, third party vote taker. Please check the
>address before you mail your vote. Your mail message,  to be accepted by
>the counting computer,  must contain only the following statement with no
>signature:
>
>          I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
>
>       Vote counting is automated.  Failure to follow these directions
>may mean that your vote does not get counted.  If you do not
>receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the
>votetaker about the problem.  It's your responsibility to make
>sure your vote is registered correctly.
>
>
>       Here's what Canada's George Burdi, of the neo-Nazi Heritage Front,
>had to say about this vote, on February 21, on his SISTANCE
>mailing list:
->
>     "There is a call for votes coming on rec.music.white-power in the
>next week or so, and you will be notified in a special issue of RREN
>exactly what to do.  FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER.  Let me be
>perfectly blunt and state that we have more than enough net-nazis to win
>this thing handsdown. But every one of you must vote YES!  And just voting
>yes means nothing unless you do it properly.  So you have been forewarned.
>The instructions are coming to your email  box soon, and they are not
>complicated.  Just follow them as told, and we will have a WP music
>newsgroup finally!"
->
>
>If Mr. Burdi's confidence disturbs you, please give this letter the
>widest possible distribution, and help us deliver the largest NO vote
>in the history of the UseNet.
>  



Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: JimBATNOSPAMpitnet.net (Jim B)
Subject: Re: Kundalini and chi

Thanks, Jim.

The Taoist concept I learned by reading Mantak Chia is that chi is
polarized (yin and yang) subtle energy.  Chi is taken in through inhalation
and food, and some of it is refined and converted in the body to Ching Chi,
the sexual essence, which is stored in the reproductive fluids and then
circulated throughout the body via the lymphatic system.  Then there is
shien, or spirit, which is not exactly a form of chi, but which is unable
to live or function without chi.  The three treasures are thus chi, ching,
and shien.  In Taoist yoga, the shien, chi and ching are brought together
into a higher level of harmony (chi and ching in the service of shien),
thus enabling one to transcend duality consciousness (opening of the third
eye?).  This is similar to what you report, and both have similarities to
kundalini yoga .  The Taoists favor the microcosmic orbit (which you
mentioned in your earlier post) because it recycles the energies and
nourishes all the chakras, while the Hindus seem to want to raise it to the
head and keep it there (if possible).  I think the Taoist method more safe,
and so does Lee Sannella, by the way.  This all becomes difficult to
connect with the Judeo-Christian-Islam approach to transformation, although
there need be no conflict.

Looking forward to hearing more from the list on this.

Peace.  Phil

>In his very excellent "Self Realization in Kashmir Shavism," Swami
>Lakshmanjoo states that "Sakti-kundalini and the state of kundalini called
>prana-kundalini are one.  In all Tantras, sakti-kundalini is described in
>this way" (p.95).  Prana becomes kundalini when it enters into the central
>channel in the spine.
>     In Taoist internal alchemy, the word chi is much broader in meaning
>than the word prana, including its state in the central channel.  However,
>there is another sense to this.  Besides chi, there is another energy in
>the spine, nervous/awareness energy, what the Taoists call shen.  As the
>chi enters the spine, it blends with the shen, producing a mixture of
>energies that (maybe) equate with the term kundalini.  This is also
>complicated by the notion that chi came become shen, and shen can become
>chi.
>     There are other takes on this--the issue is probably unresolvable,
>since it's an issue of semantics and "agreement" of terms.  However, if
>they are not the same, there is certainly a very close relationship and
>similarity between them.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jim
>
>>> I'm not sure everyone on this list would agree that kundalini and
>>> prana/ki/chi are the same.  I believe kundalini awakening leads to an
>>> intensification of the flow of these subtle energies, but that does not
>>> mean they are the same as kundalini.  My sense is that kundalini is a
>>> deeper energy of the human spirit.  What do others think?
>>>
>>> Phil



-
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: JimBATNOSPAMpitnet.net (Jim B)
Subject: Re: Kundalini and chi

>Thanks, Jim.
>
>The Taoist concept I learned by reading Mantak Chia is that chi is
>polarized (yin and yang) subtle energy.  Chi is taken in through inhalation
>and food, and some of it is refined and converted in the body to Ching Chi,
>the sexual essence, which is stored in the reproductive fluids and then
>circulated throughout the body via the lymphatic system.

If you are seriously interested in, or practicing, these methods, I
recommend also reading "Taoist Yoga" by Lu Kuan Yu and "The Jade Emporer's
Mind Seal Classic" translated by Stewart Olson.  Another book I truly enjoy
is "Tao and Longevity" by Chu and Nan.  As I understand it (but don't quote
me on this ;^) there are a number of different types of chi--at least
five--one of which is breath and another food energies.  These latter two
are both considered yang chi (or fire chi), or again, post-natal chi.  The
other types, are yin/water/pre-natal chi, and have more to do with the
internal organs--in particular the kidneys--and the blood.  This gets
complex, because each type of chi can also be yin or yang in relation to
the overall bodily state.  Ching, on the other hand, is said to include all
the actual bodily fluids, as well as the energetic essence of those fluids.
However it is often reduced to sexual essence because of the tremendous
power contained in this (loud clearing of throat).

>Then there is
>shien, or spirit, which is not exactly a form of chi, but which is unable
>to live or function without chi.

The Mind Seal Classic describes how shen arises from the blending of chi
and ching, and how it can return to them.  Alice Bailey says the same in
her Cosmic Fire, but substitutes the word "spirit" (in the all-encompassing
abstract sense) for chi, consciousness for shen, and "fire by friction" or
the fire of matter for ching.  I definitely agree that shen relies on
chi--Taosit practices aim at infusing the shen with chi--or, another way of
thinking about it, introducing the substance of space (chi) into the
consciousness.
-
>The three treasures are thus chi, ching,
>and shien.  In Taoist yoga, the shien, chi and ching are brought together
>into a higher level of harmony (chi and ching in the service of shien),
>thus enabling one to transcend duality consciousness (opening of the third
>eye?).

I agree with the resulting transcendance of duality consciousness--however,
this implies no spirit, no energy, no matter.  8^)
      Is this the openning of the third eye?  Maybe a partial openning, but
I suspect it has more to do with the openning of the crown chakra--which
for sanity's sake, better happen before you start seeing spirits!

>This is similar to what you report, and both have similarities to
>kundalini yoga .  The Taoists favor the microcosmic orbit (which you
>mentioned in your earlier post) because it recycles the energies and
>nourishes all the chakras, while the Hindus seem to want to raise it to the
>head and keep it there (if possible).

Keep it there, or even blast it up and out into "higher planes of existence."
-
>I think the Taoist method more safe,
>and so does Lee Sannella, by the way.

Who is Lee Sannella?  I agree it is certainly more safe.  And also more
natural--everything in nature seems to seek circles, roundness.

>This all becomes difficult to
>connect with the Judeo-Christian-Islam approach to transformation, although
>there need be no conflict.
-
If you look at the gnostic and kabbalistic writings it makes more sense.
IMHO, our received religious tradition(s) is primarily about politics and
real-estate.  Not that there isn't light there, but the light is obscured
by the intermediary dogma.  The gnostics said that YHVH was an evil creator
(jealous & warlike), and that the serpent (K) in Eden was sent to liberate
man.  When this didn't completely work, the serpent had to incarnate as a
human--and so Christ was born.  The first time, man received the knowledge
of good and evil, the second, the keys to eternal life.  See Genesis 3:22.

>Looking forward to hearing more from the list on this.
>
>Peace.  Phil

And also with you,

Jim


PS--Did I actually say that I usually keep my posts brief?  Well, anyway,
thanks for giving me the chance to flex my accademic muscle.  ;^)  Now, for
a brief word from our sponsors:



Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: slcofksATNOSPAMfeist.com (Philip St. Romain)
Subject: Re: Kundalini / Shaktipat, etc.

Enjoyed your post very much, Mark.  As you will note from the exchange
between Jim and I, however, I think it much too simplistic to equate chi
with kundalini, and that with the Holy Spirit..  There are many kinds of
chi, some of which are of very low vibration and even impermanent.  The
connection with Christianity, here, would not be simply through the
gnostics or kabbalists, but would be to see Jesus as a Shakti Master, and
the Holy Spirit as the Energy/Grace which he transmits.  This could tie
into a very traditional understanding of the Holy Spirit--one that could,
in addition, be enriched by the wisdom of the East.

Phil
-
>Hey there.
>
>The Shakti compels me to share the information below with you. The intent
>of it is to dispel confusion. The information is not empirically verifiable
>at this time but is 100% verifiable through personal experience.
>
>
>1.  Kundalini Shakti = Pure Conciousness = Chi = Ki = Prana = Holy Spirit
>= etc.
->
>2.  Kundalini is not only energy, it is highly intelligent. It is the
>dynamic aspect of Pure Conciousness. Your Kundalini is identical with the
>Universal Kundalini, only in most people it's in a 'contracted',
>conditioned state.

etc.



-
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 
From: slcofksATNOSPAMfeist.com (Philip St. Romain)
Subject: Re: Kundalini and chi

RE: exchange between Jim (single quote) and me (double quotes)

Check out that excellent post from Mark.  What do you think?

I'm not really a practicing Taoist.  My spiritual path is Christianity; my
Shakti Master is Jesus Christ, whose gift of love/energy we call the Holy
Spirit.  Nevertheless, the experiences of chi/prana etc. are quite vivid,
and, I would maintain, distinct (although not separate from)  from the Holy
Spirit.  My understanding thus far has been that chi is a field of subtle
energy (an etheric field) between spirit and matter, as it were, providing
a kind of interface between the two, and a means by which spirit acts upon
matter.  I know that many on the list are more interested in the practical
than the theoretical aspects of this, to which I would say that the
practical implications concerns what we pay attention to on our spiritual
pathway.  I know people who spend hours each day working with chi, and with
many good consequences.  To attend to the realm of spirit--especially the
divine--is a different pathway which orders chi, to some extent (I do see
the value of what I call "etheric hygeine") while emphasizing more the
issues of intentionality, relationship, and character (which is not to say
that these are de-valued in other pathways).

Lee Sannella is the author of "The Kundalini Experience," one of the first
books from the West to see the process as inherently transformative, and to
distinguish its "dark nights" from psychoses.

Peace.  Phil

>>The Taoist concept I learned by reading Mantak Chia is that chi is
>>polarized (yin and yang) subtle energy.  Chi is taken in through inhalation
>>and food, and some of it is refined and converted in the body to Ching Chi,
>>the sexual essence, which is stored in the reproductive fluids and then
>>circulated throughout the body via the lymphatic system.
>
>If you are seriously interested in, or practicing, these methods, I
>recommend also reading "Taoist Yoga" by Lu Kuan Yu and "The Jade Emporer's
>Mind Seal Classic" translated by Stewart Olson.  Another book I truly enjoy
>is "Tao and Longevity" by Chu and Nan.  As I understand it (but don't quote
>me on this ;^) there are a number of different types of chi--at least
>five--one of which is breath and another food energies.  These latter two
>are both considered yang chi (or fire chi), or again, post-natal chi.  The
>other types, are yin/water/pre-natal chi, and have more to do with the
>internal organs--in particular the kidneys--and the blood.  This gets
>complex, because each type of chi can also be yin or yang in relation to
>the overall bodily state.  Ching, on the other hand, is said to include all
>the actual bodily fluids, as well as the energetic essence of those fluids.
>However it is often reduced to sexual essence because of the tremendous
>power contained in this (loud clearing of throat).
>
>>Then there is
>>shien, or spirit, which is not exactly a form of chi, but which is unable
>>to live or function without chi.
>
>The Mind Seal Classic describes how shen arises from the blending of chi
>and ching, and how it can return to them.  Alice Bailey says the same in
>her Cosmic Fire, but substitutes the word "spirit" (in the all-encompassing
>abstract sense) for chi, consciousness for shen, and "fire by friction" or
>the fire of matter for ching.  I definitely agree that shen relies on
>chi--Taosit practices aim at infusing the shen with chi--or, another way of
>thinking about it, introducing the substance of space (chi) into the
>consciousness.
>
>>The three treasures are thus chi, ching,
>>and shien.  In Taoist yoga, the shien, chi and ching are brought together
>>into a higher level of harmony (chi and ching in the service of shien),
>>thus enabling one to transcend duality consciousness (opening of the third
>>eye?).
>
>I agree with the resulting transcendance of duality consciousness--however,
>this implies no spirit, no energy, no matter.  8^)
>      Is this the openning of the third eye?  Maybe a partial openning, but
>I suspect it has more to do with the openning of the crown chakra--which
>for sanity's sake, better happen before you start seeing spirits!
>
>>This is similar to what you report, and both have similarities to
>>kundalini yoga .  The Taoists favor the microcosmic orbit (which you
>>mentioned in your earlier post) because it recycles the energies and
>>nourishes all the chakras, while the Hindus seem to want to raise it to the
>>head and keep it there (if possible).
>
>Keep it there, or even blast it up and out into "higher planes of existence."
>
>>I think the Taoist method more safe,
>>and so does Lee Sannella, by the way.
>
>Who is Lee Sannella?  I agree it is certainly more safe.  And also more
>natural--everything in nature seems to seek circles, roundness.
>
>>This all becomes difficult to
>>connect with the Judeo-Christian-Islam approach to transformation, although
>>there need be no conflict.
>
>If you look at the gnostic and kabbalistic writings it makes more sense.
>IMHO, our received religious tradition(s) is primarily about politics and
>real-estate.  Not that there isn't light there, but the light is obscured
>by the intermediary dogma.  The gnostics said that YHVH was an evil creator
>(jealous & warlike), and that the serpent (K) in Eden was sent to liberate
>man.  When this didn't completely work, the serpent had to incarnate as a
>human--and so Christ was born.  The first time, man received the knowledge
>of good and evil, the second, the keys to eternal life.  See Genesis 3:22.
>
>>Looking forward to hearing more from the list on this.
>>
>>Peace.  Phil
>
>And also with you,
->
>Jim
>
>
>PS--Did I actually say that I usually keep my posts brief?  Well, anyway,
>thanks for giving me the chance to flex my accademic muscle.  ;^)  Now, for
>a brief word from our sponsors: