kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 242 

Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: eileenrcATNOSPAMix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: emergency

Jan Watson wrote:
> 
> Hello  Eileen
> 
> I would very much like to learn more about the Mirror Consciousness, the
> Witness Consciousness.  You seem to have some control over its
> appearance.  How did you come to that point? Can you help others learn?
> It sounds so much like the mirror of stories my grandmother told me of
> and I read of as a child and the mirror in the poetry of Omar Khayam and
> Rumi and....  Thank you
> 
> jan
-
Hi Jan;
The idea of the Witness Consciousness is likely to grab attention because 
it's a prime aspect of our being. If you whisper, "oak" into the ear of 
the acorn it trembles with a mystic excitement of recognition. Created in 
the image of the Divine, we instinctively recognise a basic truth. I 
think it was Emerson who said, "there is no learning - only remembering."
I think the classical literature locates The Witness in the area of the 
Third Eye in the brow; and Kundalini rises from the base of the spine to 
join and activate this Witness. In my early K-days, the Witness was with 
me like a separate entity, very clear, strong, formless, wordless, 
profound. I never tried to contol it, although a few times I did cry out 
seeking it in deepest pain.
That was in the beginning. Since then, this beingness has not only become 
a growing part of my normal waking concsiousness, but I feel this holy 
presence in everyone and everything around me. The way this happened is 
many other stories.
As to how to develop the Witness Consciousness: I am no scholar, and I am 
sure others on the list can name practices and scriptures and sutras etc. 
I do know that Buddhism addresses this strongly. Vipassana meditation 
(which I often practice these days) is great for this. 
Scientology also works on it. The practices of Scientology are largely 
westernized Buddhist techniques. Their councelors are rigorously trained
to bring this consciousness to their sessions, giving their subjects a 
totally safe space in which to vent and explore, without invalidation, 
evaluation, or any other judgement, but knowing that they are fully 
understood. They call it "granting of beingness" and it's extremely 
therapeutic. One of the axioms of Scientology is, anything which is 
viewed EXACTLY ceases to exist. Hence, when we examine old traumas, 
hang-ups and decisions, if we have the freedom and guidance to really 
look at them, and the person we are with duplicates us fully without 
interfering - POOF! Old encysted energy just vanishes.
By the way, I am NOT a Scientologist, though I was years ago (after K.).
And you ask, can I help others learn? Yes, but I don't do a lot of formal 
teaching. Folks pick up each others states of being by osmosis, and I 
think most of the influence is unconscious. This goes for all of us, 
wise, wicked, awake or dull. One of my prime prayers is, may become an 
ever more clear window for Divine radiance to touch this dear sad world.
There was a quote I loved in my teens, from Rabindranath Tagore, which 
went something like, " He will endure all manner of discomforts and 
torments for the sake of mankind, not because they are suffering and 
heavy laden, but because they are beautiful."
e.



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: minor problem

Mary Knapp wrote:
> 
> I was so miserable until I read the posts from Lori and Anne.  I truly hope
> things are better there.  This list is wonderful for support and advice and
> so my guess is things are of course better.
> 
> My more minor problem is that I am feeling lopsided.  My right side
> continues to manifest certain problems that my left does not. Mostly in my
> ear and sinus.  This has been going on for 6 weeks now.  Antrais Ray (pardon
> the spelling) cautioned that this meant someone had made me sick.  I
> dismissed his interpretation but since then I have noticed that a co-worker
> who I used to spend a lot of time with has a very negative effect on me.  We
> used to gossip together and I decided it was not good for me to indulge in
> this.  I thought I was fairly subltle and gradual in ceasing the activity,
> but I do get negative vibes there and energy sapping.  On day I shieled
> strongly and the next day she seemed surprise when I said I was well.  She
> seems like a regular nice person who just really loves gossip.
> 
> I have actually become a non-smoker in disgust over these symptoms and yet
> they persist.  They have lessened but no ways near as much as I anticipated.
> 
> Well, anyway I am more the type to wonder what this is all symbolic of
> rather than wanting some exercises to do to re-set the balance......however
> any and all responses, advice, support, etc. greatly, greatly appreciated.
> This list is a major lifeline for me and for my belief in my own sanity some
> days.  Bless  you all over and over again.

Mary,
	I would suggest it is a reaction coming in through your environment,
but it can come down into the physical in actual reactions to things as
well as thoughts and emotions. Stress as we call it comes to our system
in other ways as well. Have you noticed how sensitve k folks become to
dust, dirt, growing things, moss, vapors, smoke (another good reason to
quit) loud noices, loud music, even food. I have gone through a period
of time when I was allergic to many, many things. My system is changing
again and most of that has fallen away. But one day I blew up a balloon
for my grandaughter and had to go into emergency. There are chemicals
inside the balloon that I absorbed, the doctor said this is very rare
but people have been known to die from it. Loud blaring music, smells
... perfume, hair spray, chemicals are a big one. So, look at it this
way.. Once we begin to become more soul/spirit beings in our physical
body, suddenly things are changing. We become more aware, and everything
around us is magnified. Anything that enters the consciousness along
with all of things we are picking up on can manipulate the lifeforce.
Especially when you in a vibration where there is constant psychic war,
which many if not most people have in their surroundings. What is
psychic war? It is when folks are fighting and projecting thoughts to
each other in the ether, thoughts, jalousie, hate, envy,
misunderstanding like I'm right, your wrong, thoughts of greed, desire,
sex, all of these are effecting the emotional and mental body. When
those areas of the spiritual body are corrupt, like the computer with
the virus, then it is very easy for the body to respond. I would say
most illness and dis-ease comes from here. It is just a matter of time
before the body can't shake this constant bombardment of negative
energy, it becomes weak and begins to self destruct. About 20 years ago
my husband and I thought we would have to move to an isolated place in
order for me to stay in the body. It wasn't necessary but spirit did
find us a God's acrea just out of town sitting on the top of the hill
where we built our santuary. And, it really is that, we created the
environment best suited to the spirit. Love to all Gloria
-


Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: HowardCushATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: direct experience

Patti,

I always enjoy and respect your posts.  There is a wise and open and earnest
and humble quality to them that I really resonate with.

You recently wrote:

"I...value my own ability to feel what I feel DIRECTLY, without needing
anyone else's stamp of approval."

This is the center of everything for me regarding my K experience.  As
something outside the bounds of my own conscious ego, it doesn't seem to
thrive on the interpretations of other egos.  The fact of its existence seems
to invite reverence, tinged with a healthy dose of caution.  So far, to
mediate it in any way that is about more personal control than just being
able to have my life feels counterintuitive and even wrong.  For example,
recently I was alarmed at some of the sexuality in the energy, so strong
after 8 months, and began experimenting with a few new boundaries.  The
energy came back and said "No way, not on my time."  The idea was that if I
wanted to curtail me ego's use of sexual energy that was fine, but during my
meditation sessions that was not up to me.  I accept that, although some of
what happens goes directly against much of the "teachings."

I keep refining for myself the difference between direct experience,
interpretation, and opinion.  Some of my Buddhist friends look beyond
experience, to the void with a subject who is experiencing, but so far that
is just words to me, since until I'm dead anything that happens to me still
is referenced, at least afterward, by my human personality.  So, currently, I
need no one else to approve, accept or even understand what's going on.  It's
helpful to share and be mirrored, sure, but in the end the experience is
enough.  In fact, it's practically everything.

Howard
-


Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: "Sumesh Choudhari" 
Subject: Re: SV: Sai Baba (and others)

----------
Fra: Antaris Ra 
Emne: Sai Baba (and others)
-
Beloved L.D.:How did Jesus say: "Do  n o t  judge, so you will not be
judged"
Naturally a man donig some "miracles" is misscredited by "notbeliveres"
and other interested groups. So if you go to INDIA, see and feel and
l o v e  with your own eyes and ears and think with your heart and
feel with your mind!
Don=B4t give anything about what others say about others, none of these
"others" like it, if someone is talking bad about themselves (bad).
So if you want to be sure of something put it "infront of you" and
give it all your unconditional LOVE from your heart-chakra, if it
"stands" this LOVE, you can take it for yourself as "true".
Love simply IS,
Antaris

I agree with you. I was skeptical to the fact that Sai Baba calls himself a
avatar, and had problems accepting him. One night I received an answer. That he
was no God but had the powers of God. I am not a Sai Baba descipl e. Keep an
open mind and; and I am sure one will not be dissapointed.

OM Shanti Shanti.

----------



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: eileenrcATNOSPAMix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: mirror

HowardCushATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:
> 
> Eileen,
> 
> Can you please give me the reference for the aspect of K referred to as
> witness or mirror consciousness?  Thanks,
> 
> Howard

Hi Howard;
I have to let this question percolate a while. It has been four or five 
years since I ran across it - but I suspected it was Tibbetan Buddhist 
stuff. And sure enough . . . There's a book called "Foundations of 
Tibetan Mysticism" by Lama Anagarika Govinda, which I have just pulled 
from my shelf, and from which I'll quote a few lines. (And this is 
probably worth sharing with all on the list, hoping that's okay with 
you):
"...consciousness is transformed into the consciousness connected with 
the Knowledge of the Great Mirror....the Mirror-like Wisdom."
"In the light of the Mirror-like Wisdom . . things are freed from their 
'thingness', their isolation, without being deprived of their form; they 
are divested of their materiality without being dissolved, because the 
creative principle of the mind, which is at the bottom of all form and 
materiality is recognised . ."
There is probably much more in this and other Tibbetan Buddhist writings. 
As for the "Witness"  - I don't remember where I got that word. Also 
Buddhist, another school? Hindu? I'm not a scholar - don't have much 
formal education, and tend not to remember such details.
Also, I don't see in this particular book any linking of this Mirror to 
Kundalini, nor do I see Kundalini mentioned at all, and I guess it's 
because the Tibetans call it something else.
Perhaps there are more knowledgeable folks on the list who can clue us 
in.
Thanks for asking!
E.



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: SV: Sai Baba (and others)

I would like to add to this discussion that our own Western Diety, Jesus the
Christ, was less than 100% successful in this area.  He torched a fig tree
when He couldn't get it to bear fruit out of season.  A seldom mentioned
biblical event.  We don't like to think that Nature's Laws cannot be
overcome sometimes, but... To everthing, turn, turn, there is a season,
turn, turn, etc.

Mary
-

At 08:48 PM 11/17/96 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>Fra: Antaris Ra 
>Emne: Sai Baba (and others)
>
>Beloved L.D.:How did Jesus say: "Do  n o t  judge, so you will not be
>judged"
>Naturally a man donig some "miracles" is misscredited by "notbeliveres"
>and other interested groups. So if you go to INDIA, see and feel and
>l o v e  with your own eyes and ears and think with your heart and
>feel with your mind!
>Don=B4t give anything about what others say about others, none of these
>"others" like it, if someone is talking bad about themselves (bad).
>So if you want to be sure of something put it "infront of you" and
>give it all your unconditional LOVE from your heart-chakra, if it
>"stands" this LOVE, you can take it for yourself as "true".
>Love simply IS,
>Antaris
>
>I agree with you. I was skeptical to the fact that Sai Baba calls himself a
>avatar, and had problems accepting him. One night I received an answer.
>That he was no God but had the powers of God. I am not a Sai Baba desciple.
>Keep an open mind and; and I am sure one will not be dissapointed.
>
>OM Shanti Shanti.
>
-



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Mary Ann McAndrew 
Subject: Re: names for K

	Dear All:

-		Other names for Kundalini include "ki" and "chi", japanese, and
chinese, i believe..."purging by fire" is another description of the
same thing...many more exist, and BTW, "all roads lead (eventually) to
Rome", so-to-speak.

				In K Awakening,  Meleana*



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: BvoglATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: emergency

Anne...you wrote
I taught at that school for
> ten years,,,, and I knew this would happen. He has several prior
> convictions..........But i NEVER thought it would be me. I feel like christ
> on the cross. How much must we suffer. i am devestated. Where are my
> teacher friends? Why would they be honoring his gag order? The shit. This
> is an emergency. Please write back. I need help now.Anne
-
Until we realize that we are not separate from the social whole at a deep
personal level, we will have perpertrators of sex crimes against children.
Our own child is EVERY child and we must move before it happens to our
own...even if it shakes things up a bit.  Teachers especially have a lot to
learn about this..we must see ourselves as perpetuators of a system that does
not speak out in the name of ALL children. Christ on the cross knew this.
Barbara


-
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: David Scott Newmark 
Subject: Hello - Paradise Island Ashram

I just wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself to 
everyone on the "list," the number of which, I haven't a clue.  My name 
is David, and I am a student at American University in D.C.  Kundalini 
has been something of a fascination for me, which came about soon after 
my interests in p.s.i. phenomena dwindled.  
-	I spent a few days of last summer at an ashram on Paradise 
Island, and was wondering if anyone else has been there {I suddenly am 
unable to remember the name, however, the ashram is affiliated with a 
center in N.Y.C (24th and 6th), as well as others throughout the world}. 
Perhaps one of you was there at the same time as myself! 

							



-
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: K in the Bible

My friend in Australia told me once about a book on kundalini references in
the bible.  Here's the name and publisher for those who expressed interest.


>Hi,
->
>"The Apocalypse Unsealed" by James M Pryse 
>published by Health Research Mokelumne Hill California. 
>
>Let me know if you can't track it down.
>
>More Later 
>Cheers Greg
>Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking
>what nobody has thought.
>Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
>
>
>
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Thanks to all K-What's wrong with me?

Dear everyone,
Thank you so very much for your words of love, support, understanding, help,
advice, guidance and for responding in my time of need.  I am going to try
and respond to each of you individually, but if I miss someone- know that I
read every word and have taken them all to heart to think about.  I am
feeling much better and your words were a catalist to help me through the
dark valley's path.  It meant the world to me!  There is a smile on my face
again and very happy to have it back!  Lots of work to do yet, but I broke
through the first wall.  

Thanks Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Light and Love to you all!!!!!!!
Lori
P.S. I have responded to about half of the people who helped me and I will
thank the rest personally, but I am getting tired and need to take a typing
break for a while.  So, don't think I have forgotten anyone!!!! :D
-


Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: SV: Sai Baba (and others)

I've read about Sai Baba on this list. Is this person in NYC. How can I
learn more about this person?

-

Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: "L.D. McClanahan" 
Subject: Re: muscle bound

Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote:
> 
> My physiological k symptoms thus far have been relatively mild, but the
> past few days, in addition to the usual joint pain, I have had muscle
> spasms in my neck, back and lower abdomen.  I've been taking the
> magnesium as so many have recommended, but does anybody know WHY k
> should affect the body in this way?  Is it like an energy overload in
> the muscle system or something?  Just wondering (and tied up in a
> knot).  HollyHolly,
	It sounds as if you are doing many smart things to relieve or 
cope with K symptoms; however, this or another of your posts keeps 
coming to my mind for me to send you a reference which might be useful:
Kundalini and the Third Eye by Earlyne Chaney & William L. Messick.  
Published by ASTARA, (909)981-4941.  They refer to many interesting 
beginning sorts of information about K, but have an advanced publication 
for only those who have taken their training.  Apparently they have 
techniques which lessen or eliminate many physical and psychological 
complications of arising K.  Their Book of Life refers to Lessons of the 
Degrees, available only to members of Astara, 800 W. Arrow Highway, 
Upland, CA  91786.  I believe that various ways of coping with rising K 
should be a serious subject for this list to compile.  Let me know 
how/what you find. L.D.


-
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: muscle bound virus

Hello

As one of the 'muscle bound' (including arthritic like symptoms), I've 
been reading the postings with a great deal of interest.  Then six  other 
teachers at work got the same symptoms; one severely enough to keep her 
off work,then in a cervical collar,  then off to massage therapy for a 
while.  My sister in Georgia had it, my mom has it and a brother in NC as 
well.  Most of these are not K candidates.  Is it possible this has 
little to do with K and maybe we have a virus or bug that is doing the 
rounds?  Has anyone gone to an MD and can save the rest of us an 
unwilling  visit?

jan


-
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: dead crow

A young woman I know made a difficult decision and then walked out her door
to find a dead crow on the pathway to her home.  She knows it is an
important symbol but does not know more than that.  I was unable to help
her, but thought to ask you all. 

Mary 

PS I feel my asking vs. answering on this list is lopsided too and hope you
do not mind indulging me one more time. I swear it's for a good cause!



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Hello - Paradise Island Ashram
-
At 04:53 PM 11/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I just wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself to 
>everyone on the "list," the number of which, I haven't a clue.  My name 
>is David, and I am a student at American University in D.C.  Kundalini 
>has been something of a fascination for me, which came about soon after 
>my interests in p.s.i. phenomena dwindled.  
>	I spent a few days of last summer at an ashram on Paradise 
>Island, and was wondering if anyone else has been there {I suddenly am 
>unable to remember the name, however, the ashram is affiliated with a 
>center in N.Y.C (24th and 6th), as well as others throughout the world}. 
>Perhaps one of you was there at the same time as myself! 
>
>							
>
>I have stayed there, it is the Sivananda Yoga Retreat....

traveler


-
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: dead crow

Mary Knapp wrote:
> 
> A young woman I know made a difficult decision and then walked out her door
> to find a dead crow on the pathway to her home.  She knows it is an
> important symbol but does not know more than that.  I was unable to help
> her, but thought to ask you all.
> 
> Mary
>

Hello

Even archetypal symbolism must never be interpreted without the context 
of the person involved, so tread gently here.
   Furthermore, our words tend to become self fullinging prophecies if 
the other believes them, however inaccurate or accurate they are; it is 
the belief that sometimes carries the day.  Regardless of the 
symbolism, find hope for your friend in whatever you say.  

Truth is not our only responsibility in speaking it, we, who are trying 
to understand deeper things must also judge the ability of the listener 
to deal with truth.  

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but dead crows can hardly cast light into 
lives and may or may not be symbols at any given point in time, but the 
young lady in question has need greater than the need to know about  
the crow; I'd deal with those.

Good luck to both of you

jan



Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 
From: Tim Duna 
Subject: Re: dead crow

At 06:22 PM 11/17/96 -0800, you wrote:
>A young woman I know made a difficult decision and then walked out her door
>to find a dead crow on the pathway to her home.  She knows it is an
>important symbol but does not know more than that.  I was unable to help
>her, but thought to ask you all. 
>
>Mary 
->
>PS I feel my asking vs. answering on this list is lopsided too and hope you
>do not mind indulging me one more time. I swear it's for a good cause!
>

        I have heard of crows being used in Tibetan Buddhist divination.
However I'm not sure what the details are of that divination technique.  

Tim

-

Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 
From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert )
Subject: Re: dead crow

Mary Knapp wrote:
> 
> A young woman I know made a difficult decision and then walked out her door
> to find a dead crow on the pathway to her home.  She knows it is an
> important symbol but does not know more than that.  I was unable to help
> her, but thought to ask you all.
> 
> Mary
> 
> PS I feel my asking vs. answering on this list is lopsided too and hope you
> do not mind indulging me one more time. I swear it's for a good cause!

I think these omens often don't reveal their signifigance until AFTER
the event they were "ment" to fortell. The day before we moved from
Pennsylvania to Washington state, I saw a bird hit by a car in front of
our house and it was decapitated. I knew this did not look good,
omen-wise, but I didn't want to freak the family out by mentioning it.
Besides, we HAD to move. So we packed up our trailor that I had built
into a caravan and off we went. The /|\ tow rod, or whatever you call
it, broke in half on the highway, the trailor almost exploded from the
broken propane and keroscene tanks we had attached to it, and we had to
go back and buy a truck to put everything in to resume our trip.

Several years later, my 18 yr.old daughter was killed and burned in an
auto crash by a drunk driver. He (the drunk) was beheaded. (No, not by
me; in the crash).

I think that sometimes we are given to know, at least to some extent,
future happenings, but we aren't in a situation to be able to do
anything about it or avert it. Only learn from it, and maybe appreciate
more the wonder of our lives--when reminded that they, on the physical
plane, will too soon come to an end.
--Bob

-

Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 

Subject: a quasi-poem

Hello all,

I recently came upon a quasi-poem I wrote a couple of years ago (even before
I had heard of K).  While I do write poetry of the more standard "rhyme
every other line" type, this one was different.

I thought it was rather appropriate for many of the people here.

***
Metamorphosis

Does the caterpillar know that it will turn into a butterfly?
Does it lie awake at night wondering what this change is?
Does it feel excited about new possibilities
or is it afraid of the unknown forces acting upon it?
Perhaps it may even feel sick?
How to tell if it is indeed a wondrous thing at all?
Outsiders seem to have an omnipotence about them.
They know what will happen.
They are at a higher plane than it and can look 
down and not worry.
But the caterpillar does not have the benefit of
removing itself from the process and looking
from beyond its usual comprehension.
In the end is change good for change's sake?
Is it a happy caterpillar becoming a sad butterfly or mean moth?
But then again, it will leave its body to become more than what it was.
It no longer slinks along the ground in ignorant bliss.
It can now fly through the heavens and enjoy
all that it did not know existed.
As
Will
I
***
-
In Service to the Light,





Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 
From: David Scott Newmark 
Subject: Re: dead crow
-
Everything which will happen, I believe, has already been 
pre-determined. Simply let it happen...  The less conscious manipulation, 
the less strugle, the less worry...   Although this hardly answers your 
question, it is, nevertheless, something to keep in mind.

david