kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 239 

Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 
From: slcofksATNOSPAMfeist.com (Philip St. Romain)
Subject: Esoteric Christianity

>(juliet:)
>> >I guess what I'm curious about is: do you think that there has always
>> >been an exoteric and an esoteric aspect to the church (and other
>> >organized religions)?  The esoteric holding the keys to
>> >kundalini-related teachings? Or do you see it (k) as more capricious?
>
>(Philip:)
>> Definitely--an exoteric and esoteric dimension to any tradition
>> (including
>> the new age, by the way), and the two exist in a certain necessary
>> tension.
>> To overdo the exoteric turns religion into a matter of roles, rules,
>> and
>> obligations.
>
>I guess I'm wondering about this relative to the dialogue going on right
>now about Genesis, etc.  The idea seems to be that some esoteric
>information is "coded" into the OT (possibly an idea from the same
>street as above).  If that's not the case, then how and where, I wonder,
>would there be an esoteric expression in Christianity?  If there is an
>esoteric aspect to Christianity, wouldn't there be some (equally
>esoteric) reflection in the primary text of the tradition?
->
>I don't think that we have to assume that (as I think was mentioned in a
>post of the last few days) the OT as we know it today was actually
>written intact.  There are certainly very good arguments for
>interpolation at various points in history (a good book about this is
>"Who Wrote The Bible?").
>
>Would love to hear more about evidence of an historical, codified
>esoteric tradition in Christianity...
>
If by esoteric we mean experiential, then there has always been this aspect
in Christianity.  If you mean something more occult--secret, hidden,
including some aspect of kundalini-related disciplines--that is debatable.
Of course, early Christianity was highly experiential.  Its exoteric
formulation came about through centuries of reflection and response to
situations.

The experiential dimension to Christianity is its mystical tradition.  This
begins with the first disciples and proceeds through the early fathers, the
desert fathers and mothers, monasteries, and a variety of contemplative
religious orders.  In general, Christianity lacks a systematized
methodology for awakening spiritual energy such as we find in the yogas.
The "method" is surrender in faith to God, generally through prayer.  The
"way" is faith.  In this sense, Christianity has been largely a bhakti type
of religion, with a strong karma/service emphasis.  There is something of a
jnana yoga tradition as well, largely in terms of theology.  There is
almost nothing simliar to hata/kundalini yoga.

I do not accept the insinuation made by several people that the Catholic
hierarchy has long been determined to squash any signs of spirituality or
mystical experience.  They haven't properly encouraged it, to be sure, but
they've absolutely no objection to people praying and doing spiritual
exercises of all kinds.  Where gnosticism, quietism, and other kinds of
movements have been condemned, it was because they led away from the true
goal of Christian spirituality and perpetrated ideas at odds with Christian
teaching.

I don't know if this answers your questions about  an historical, codified
esoteric tradition in Christianity.  It would have to be our mystical
tradition, about which there is nothing occult (in the sense of hidden).
Our mystics have written about their experiences and put it out there for
all to read.  Things like tarot, mystery schools, the illuminati, etc. do
not really represent the Christian experience very well, interesting though
they might be.  In the end, it all comes down to faith in Christ and
surrender to his Spiirit, which is not too complicated to understand, but
very difficult to do.  People in the siddha traditions can surely
understand this--perhaps better than most Christians can.

Peace.  Phil

-

Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: "Karin" 
Subject: Re: Kundalini Hypothesis or Two

Reference for ultradian cycles and nostril dominance is:
Mind-Body Therapy, Methods of Ideodynamic Healing in Hypnosis, Ernest Rossi
& David Cheek, p461-467. Its a very BIG book with very small writing. Give
me some time so I can get some more detail for you.
-
Travel lightly
Karin



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: BvoglATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: why are we here?

Yes, Holly,
>> Are many of us being moved from place to place?  Is the feeling 
of mission common among us?  I'd love to hear about others who seemed 
to walk out of one life into another. 

 I see it happening to a lot of people this last year. I call it patterning.
Good luck,
Barbara


-
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: K- What is wrong with me?

Dear list members- 

I need some help- what else is new- I cannot get out of a depressed,
meloncaly mood- I keep crying and everything hurts!  My life is utter
confusion- I have lost all direction and guidance- I have begged- literally
on my knees crying so hard I could barely speak but if the answers came I did
not hear them.  I know I am not alone, but that is how I feel- I am at a
crossroads in my life with many decisions to make, no idea which way to go
and NO MOTIVATION.  Why is this happening?  What do I do to get out of it?
 It is hard to stay focused on anything and I could care less about my
studting- which is not like me at all!!!!  I feel like I am having a nervous
breakdown or something... Why is this not positivie- I feel like the snake is
drowning me- it is the simplest way I  can put it.  Please help anyone, if
you can.

Light and Love,
Lori

P.S. Plus, even though I know I need to I have no desire to eat- and what
little I am eating - with extreme effort to do so- has no taste, and there is
nothing that I want to eat or could care about eating....



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: K- What is wrong with me?

At 10:20 AM 11/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear list members- 
>
>I need some help- what else is new- I cannot get out of a depressed,
[snipped]

Dear Lori,
-
As I read your message I thought to myself, "I've sure been there. I know
exactly what you are talking about." Sometimes those spaces have lasted for
months.

I have had to tell myself that it is always darkest before the dawn; that
nothing stays the same forever; the good melts away and the bad melts away,
all into the sea of change; so when things are good, enjoy them, and when
they are not, hang on, and wait, for the good things will return. How?
Where? Why? are not known, but that they will return, is known.
-
I think of the death card in the Tarot (mine has a picture of a snake, I
believe) and in the snake I see the shedding of the old skin to make way for
the new. Death is part of life. I have died many times in this lifetime.
These death voyages are unpleasant, not appearing noble at the time, and
they hurt, yes. But they are not without meaning or value. When these times
happen upon me, I have looked to see their meaning and their value, to
embrace them, to visualize the shedding of the old, to make way for the new.
The more easily I release the old, by embracing the process of release
itself, the more easily I go through this time. 
-
I visualize the new unknown as bringing forth a new level of life that is
higher and deeper and sweeter than anything I have known before, and I
remind myself that this has always been the case. There is nothing I can do
to speed the process but wait (like the 7 of Pentacles). Wait, like when a
seed is planted in the fall, and then it takes many months underground the
cold snows to see the first signs of life. In the waiting you store up
energy needed for the burst of growth to come ahead.

Hang in there.
-
Best, traveler



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Mary Ann McAndrew 
Subject: Lori:  The dark night of the soul

	**And just what to do to get through the dark night...a darkened path
is never fun or easy...but, you must trust yourself that you will again
see the dawn...it is coming..and, meanwhile, in the midst of the pain
and the weary-feelings, you will find that if you focus on being
thankful for what you *do* have...though it seems like not much, at
times...you have your mind, you have your consciousness...you, though it
feels so bad, are a golden being of light, and are not exclusively this
body...the pain, the torture, and the suffering are things you can
always focus on-if you wish.  If you choose to focus on the light, the
joy, and the peace...you will see it...and, as the supplicant, you will
again be revealed to new horizons and beauty...because you found the
gift that was hidden for you within this crisis.**

				In Love, Light, and Life

					Meleana*



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: CGIAJWATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: K's movement through Crown

When I had my K awakening, the energy when up my spine, up the back of my
head and cascaded down the front of my head like a shower of red energy.

Some have the energy fly out their heads through the crown chakra.  Some
redirect the K into a spacific chakra, sometimes trying to keep the K only in
the Heart chakra and chakras above it.  

My question is what the differnt actions mean, should we aim for a particular
movement.  I heard that the K should always be returned to the root chakra,
but I hear of the truely bessed putting the K in a chakra or radiating it
constantly

Any Ideas?

Aaron



-
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: AN APPEAL

Robert Chalmers wrote:
> ...
> we need to focus on the universal nature of
> the phenomenon in various religions before we can get the phenomenon in
> perspective and treat it scientifically. Although anyone who does will
> be a sure-fire Nobel prize winner.  Anyone out there listening?  Anyone
> who develops a scientific undertanding of the phenomenon at work here
> will definitely be up there with Einstein and Newton.  It is not to be
> underestimated.
> 
> I believe they will also lay the ground-work for cracking the unified
> field theory which Einstein spent the last years of his life chasing, a

Indeed!
Probably wont be one single person though.
Perhaps a synthesis of Roger Penrose, Brian Josephson, Henry Stapp, 
John Hagelin and a pinch of Jack Sarfatti/Fred Wolf/Nick Herbert
are on their way to the Nobel? (assuming they dont all have a 
pathological K meltdown first)

They are getting close to an understanding of the 'physics
of consciousness' which will merge with the neural 
microtubule discovery which will then easily extrapolate 
into the possibility of Kundalini experiences, 
leading to 'serious' scientific investigation, leading to 
a global revolution in consciousness, leading to the Kingdom
of Heaven on Earth, after a bit of tribulation, of course.  
It is all so obvious, nez pa?

John Hagelin writes academic papers on Physics supersymmetry and 
'Maharishi Vedic Science' (ahem):

http://www-spires.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/spiface/
find/hep/www?FORMAT=WWW&rawcmd=find+a+hagelin

Henry Stapp of Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories has 
been at it for a while:

http://www.hia.com/hia/pcr/stapp1.html

And Jack Sarfatti, though an anti-spiritualist,
has a few ideas on time and consciousness 
worth a look:

http://www.hia.com/hia/pcr
-
Nobel Prize physicist from Cambridge University, Fellow of
the Royal Society, Brian Josephson dropped the adolescent 
game of Physics for the serious work of meditation 
after securing tenure with a Nobel Prize in Physics,
Now he runs a 'Mind Matter Unification Project':

http://www.phy.cam.ac.uk/www/research/mm/articles/Bell.psi

But, of course, explaining it all 'SCIENTIFICALLY' is only
a sideshow curiosity, we still have to individually 
realise it. Good-old-fashioned devotion, prayer, and
meditation will never be obsoleted by any 'theory'.

"Relativity changed everything,
except how we think." - Einstein 

So, even when there is a SCIENTIFIC K theory, it
will still not change the way people think (after the
headlines fade in a few days), unless they Repent, as
the saying goes. 
(Repent Metanoia = change of consciousness).

cheers



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Childhood and K
-
> Monique Mooney wrote:
> >
> > I am interested to know if anyone had experienced K at a young age say under
> > 12 or so? And if so when was their initial reaction to it? and what

Da Free John (Adi Da) describes his childhood K experiences in the 
new edition of 'The Knee of Listening' ($4.95 paperback just out)


-
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: AN APPEAL

peripherally related to scientific study of K, 
the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research center,
doing the boring graduate-assistant grunt work of 
objectively quantifying extrasensory powers:

http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/pear.html



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: slcofksATNOSPAMfeist.com (Philip St. Romain)
Subject: Television and Kundalini

OK.  Here's getting off the gnosticism/Genesis, etc. discussion into a real
life problem.  Ever since k awakened, I've had a problem with tv--not the
content, although that's sometimes bad enough, but with the television
waves.  If I watch for 15 minutes or more, I begin to feel nauseated, and
eventually I have to go outside and retch out the bad prana.  Same thing
happens with computer screens, though not quite so severe.  If I watch tv
with a cushioned chair or something in front of me, it's not as bad.  But
it's still a problem!

Does anyone else have this most annoying problem?  What can be done about
it?  I can live without tv, but it would be nice to watch a litlle
something every now and then.
-
Retching my way to heaven!

Phil



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: "L.D. McClanahan" 
Subject: Sai Baba
-
K Chat People,
	In the latter part of December I shall be leaving for India with 
a group of people to study consciousness associated with physics, 
especially the quantum variety.  While there we will meet with Sai Baba. 
	I have heard very mixed statements about him, ranging from how 
he has palmed dust to sprinkle, then admitted the hoax, apologizing for 
being under performance pressure, to where he does have supra-normal 
powers.  I almost did not go because of his mixed reputation, but 
decided the opportunity to meet other fine people, visit India, and 
learn about Yoga and meditation/consciousness well worth my efforts.
	Your "read" on Sai Baba would help me prepare for our meeting.
	L.D.



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 

Subject: Re: Television and Kundalini

At 05:30 PM 11/15/96 -0500, Phil wrote:
>OK.  Here's getting off the gnosticism/Genesis, etc. discussion into a real
>life problem.  Ever since k awakened, I've had a problem with tv--not the
>content, although that's sometimes bad enough, but with the television
>waves. 

>Does anyone else have this most annoying problem?  What can be done about
>it?  I can live without tv, but it would be nice to watch a litlle
>something every now and then.

While this has not happened to me, I would suggest try putting up a clear
screen in front of the TV.  Maybe a plastic seat cover or something.  You
could also try to put some heavy curtains at the side of the TV (without
blocking the vents) to help absorb the waves.

I have no idea if this will work, but hey, there's always radio (or get a TV
board for your computer to watch it there).

In Service to the Light,





Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: AN APPEAL

Hi all

In all times, scientific theory has been proven inadequate or just plain 
wrong by the generations that came after; such is the nature of growth 
and expanding awareness.   How do we know that is not the case now? Yes, 
Prigogine, Primrose, Peat, Talbot etc..... all ring a bell inside us, for 
they are of our generation and share our context.  How then can we look 
to them for answers?  They are but reflections of our own high 
intellectual milieu.  

Furthermore, their very titles, "scientists" tends to preclude their 
public ability to delve into all but the outer circle of experiences that 
tend to be called "paranormal" because they are not socially accepted 
norms and tend to be threatening to our definitons of normalcy.  

Can scientific method for example explain, in spite of pages of analysis, 
the union of you and the one you love?  Can it explain some of the sense 
of mystery you felt at the core of the k experience?  

I do not toss out science lightly; in fact, I do not toss it out at all. 
I love physics and metaphysics with a passion and am currently working on 
an alternate theory of time, but, I also recognize that there is a need 
for new paramenters for science if it is to meet the challenges of the 
times to come.  What is coming is, quite simply, quantum evolution.  No 
nice clean step by step easily explainable, objectively verifiable data 
other than raw human experience mingled with ancient and current wisdom 
and metaphysics in marriage of opposites  (like the major segments of our 
brains coming together and working jointly for a change).  

When science learns to marry the different aspects of man his contexts, 
it will begin a new journey into a science of a different sort; perhaps 
one I'd personally call the pursuit of wisdom.  
-
Till then, like Love, K will not easily submit to the scrutiny of the 
micorscope, or scalpel, however benign.  Yet, without rational thought, 
we are lost as well into the deep well of superstition that characterized 
the attempts of other societies to deal with these sorts of aspects of 
life.

Like our experiences, there are no easy answers, are there?

jan
-


Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Antaris Ra 
Subject: Sai Baba (and others)

Beloved L.D.:How did Jesus say: "Do  n o t  judge, so you will not be
judged"
Naturally a man donig some "miracles" is misscredited by "notbeliveres"
and other interested groups. So if you go to INDIA, see and feel and
l o v e  with your own eyes and ears and think with your heart and
feel with your mind!
Don=B4t give anything about what others say about others, none of these
"others" like it, if someone is talking bad about themselves (bad).
So if you want to be sure of something put it "infront of you" and
give it all your unconditional LOVE from your heart-chakra, if it
"stands" this LOVE, you can take it for yourself as "true".
Love simply IS,
Antaris
-
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: K- What is wrong with me?

Boy I've been there, too, and agree with what has already been posted 
in reply to you.  But I've been learning something new these past 
months about going through pain into transcendence, spurred on a lot by 
my mom's death.  Can't quite "get" it all yet but the first trick is to 
not resist the pain at all -- very tough for me to do because I am a 
therapist and we are never supposed to be irritable so I often try to 
rise above misery and think there is something wrong with me when I 
can't.  The second trick is to go into the pain, surrender to it, feel 
very specifically and consciously where it is in the body -- sometimes 
I dance or rock or shake with it -- and not a few times this has led to 
visions for me that at the very least inform me that the pain has 
meaning, even if I can't understand it.  No small comfort.  The idea of 
breaking through to supra-knowing through pain, for me, is a very 
reasurring antidote to the popular notion that you are supposed to get 
happier and healthier and higher and then one sunny day you "earn" your 
enlightenment.  

Love,
Holly


-
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Sai Baba (and others)

I have been reading Autobiography of a Yogi.. and am amazed at how 
the Indian
philsophy is so similiar to the Christian.. And I have been rejecting 
Christian for some
time because of the hyprocrasy that I see in the so called 
"Christians" that nausates me.
For the first time in ages, I see the abstract of the bible and 
truely appreciate the text.
The thought came to me:
Genki deska 
Como esta (heh como stas)
How are you?
what is the difference in the three above... only the way its said.. 
and it is likewize in all religions. THe meaning is the same, just 
from different prospectives and language forms.ATNOSPAM
"All creation is governed by law" The principles that operate in the 
outer universe, discoverable by scientists, are called "natural Laws. 
My guru, awake in God, knew this world to be nothing but objectivised 
dream of the creator.  Because of a unity with te\he Divine Lahiri 
Mahasaya could materialize or dematerialize or make any other change 
he wished in the dream atoms of the phenomenal world.
"What things so ever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive 
them and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24
flute
aka Carolyn Maloney
-


Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: brain fluids

Hi Paco

Guess what I just found???  Funny you should ask and voila, by accident I 
end up there.

http://www.estrie.com/macphi/kundalini/kundalin.html

Neat way to get answers.  [chuckle, chuckle]

jan



-
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: Robert Chalmers 
Subject: Re: Sai Baba (and others)

FLUTE said:
I have been reading Autobiography of a Yogi.. and am amazed at how 
the Indian philsophy is so similiar to the Christian.. And I have been
rejecting Christian for some time because of the hyprocrisy that I see
in the so called "Christians" that nausates me.
For the first time in ages, I see the abstract of the bible and 
truely appreciate the text.
The thought came to me:
Genki deska 
Como esta (heh como stas)
How are you?
what is the difference in the three above... only the way its said.. 
and it is likewize in all religions. THe meaning is the same, just 
from different prospectives and language forms.ATNOSPAM
"All creation is governed by law" The principles that operate in the 
outer universe, discoverable by scientists, are called "natural Laws. 
My guru, awake in God, knew this world to be nothing but objectivised 
dream of the creator.  Because of a unity with te\he Divine Lahiri 
Mahasaya could materialize or dematerialize or make any other change 
he wished in the dream atoms of the phenomenal world.
"What things so ever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive 
them and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24
flute
aka Carolyn Maloney

ROBERT says: That is lovely and well put.  Its just the kind of gentle
acceptance of the true Christ and all the meek Sages and Mystics of this
world that I think we should be aiming for.  I can't remember who wrote
Autobiography of a Yogi.  Have you heard of "The Unknown Christ of
Hinduism" by Raimundo Panikkar.



Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Re: Sai Baba (and others)

"Autobiography of a Yogi is written by Paramahansa Yogananda.. and is 
from the Self Realization
fellowship founded in 1920. Kriyban kriya Yoga seems to be what we 
are referring to here as Kundalini Yoga.
flute
aka Carolyn Maloney