kundalini-l-d Digest                            Volume 96 : Issue 237 

Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: (Warning!) Gnosticism and Exoterica

Daniel Rusch-Fischer wrote: Does this have anything to do with why  Prince
Charles was circumsized by a rabbi and Queen Victoria herself  believed that she
was descended from King David? They were of the house  of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
(later changed to Windsor when cousin Willie  (Kaiser Wilhelm) took to bombing
the crap out of England). How one gets  from Isaac (Yitzak) to Saxe is quite a
stretch.

Oh Ye GodZ!  I don't know. Eeeeeew.

Sorry, didn't know you were squeamish - won't even go into the ritual  stone
knife used - if you go EEEEWWW think about how the guys feel-).

Oh, God, I am getting off the subject - AND I am not using Sanskrit  terms (would
Prakrta be OK?). As far as terminology goes, kundala is  simply a coil (as a loop
of rope - kundalam is a ring), kundalini is  nothing more than a nominative
feminine form of that word and means  'that which is coiled' and is again an
ordinary word that means 'snake'  in an allusive sense similar to 'ship of the
desert' meaning camel.  There seems to be a goofy notion that if something is
given a name in  another language (Sanskrta, Pali, Hebrew, Arabic, Latin) that
that  gives it some special and sacred significance. Merdre is no less crap  just
because it is French. The aboriginal people of Australia have had  exactly the
same experience as have the Xhosa bushmen of Africa, as has  the unsuspecting
American WASP who got up in the middle of the night to  take a leak and is still
in the throes of surging Spiritual Awakening  five months later, as MAY have the
bandy-legged little Indian saddhu  after 80 years of yogic practice (including
learning the Hindu  terminology). Just because someone once watched a turd float
down the  Ganges doesn't make them any more (or less) welcome on this list - just
 consider how nasty and elitist this post sounds and try not to do it  yourself.
Namaste,
DAN-RF (ReallyFull)of it!-)


-
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Torah vs. Tarot

So what does what you said have to do with the Torah or Tarot..  Nothing
matches.. 

Kabalah from what I understand is Jewish Mystisicsm.. (sp) and Of 
course the Christians have their
mystics too..  and its all considered magic by those that don't 
understand the nature of things.
grin
flute


 Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail 

From:    Juliet
Subject:         Torah vs. Tarot
-


I'd like to interject here briefly with a request (again) for a slightly more
frequent reference to sources.  I think it's important that we are able to
distinguish when comments are from "channeled" sources, when they are the fruit
of historical research, when they are conclusions drawn from a smattering, when
they are our own inspired authority, etc...

In particular, I am curious to know when the frequent references we have had
lately to kabalah are (really) to kabalah as practiced in the Jewish mystical
tradition, or kabalah as (appropriated by?) developed in (much later) western
hermeticism. If the references are in fact to hermetic kabalah, is this as
practiced in the renaisance (Bacon, etc.)?  The mid-twentieth century
(Crowley/Regardie)?  I think Tim wrote:

> >>A K initiation from above has been said to feel like a
> >>lightning bolt coming down into the body.  In kabalah, the 
lightning > >>bolt is
> >>a symbol drawn upon the Tree, descending through the sephiroth or 
-
> >>spheres.

Now, this sounds to me like imagery drawn from the Golden Dawn. But further:

> >>The kabalists have very complete, exact and complicated figures 
of 
> >>the
> >>creation of the universe (differing somewhat from the bible). 

Whereas this could be from any of several periods.  I don't mean to be
aggressively chalanging here, it is just a bit confusing as written-- and I
think it is an important distinction in the current context...

As has been pointed out by Peter, one marvelous thing about holy texts is that
they have the capacity to function as a Rorschak...    
  
> >>Another thing that infers they knew of K is the way the Tree is
> >>split into three pillars.  One of Severity, one of Mercy, and one 
of
> >>Mildness.  An active force (severity) a passive force (mercy) and 
a > >>neutral
> >>force (mildness).

This correlation is quite directly made by Regardie (at least) to
Ida/Pingala/Shushumna (sounds like father/son/holy spirit).  In his book "The
Tree of Life" there is some discussion of the interplay (and distinction)
between yogic practices and magic.

> >>Who are scholars anyway?  A voice
> >>for the masses that tells us what is true and what isn't?  Must 
we 
> >>follow
> >>their slants like sheep and neglect what they neglect?

No--but we are humans, and as such in the unique position to blend information
drawn from "inspiration" *and* physical toil. To neglect to do so is to waste
half of our resources, IMHO...

One further question:  
-
> >>The few bits of translation that I have
> >>read (which is more litereal of the original language) refer 
> >>directly to
> >>things on the Tree of Life.  God names, symbols, angels, body 
parts, > >>etc.
> >>It is my bias then that the bible refers to different parts of 
the 
> >>Tree of
> >>Life in various passages, making a complementary tool for study 
of 
> >>the Tree.

Could you provide specific passages for this?  I would love to 
examine
this more closely.  There is a great resource at:

http://www.gospelcom.net/bible/

where you can do word searches in multiple translations(!) instantly..
..

pax,
Jliet



 End of Forwarded message 


-
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: $sex$

Paco wrote:
> 
> Ok, things seem to have taken a scientific turn,
> 
> I have some trippy questions maybe some will answer...I'm curious
> what people think about these...I will just start with one or two. Ready?
> 
> It seems you can think better when your brain is more "dry"? Concur?
> Disagree? What is the relation of the flow of cerebro-spinal fluid
> into the various brain cavities to meditation, sleep, thinking etc.?
> 
> If you feel "hit" with some negative energy somehow, and you can feel it
> in your head, what do you think this is? Do you regard this as a
> contraction of blood vessels, a neuro-electric pseudo-neuralgia, a
> fluctuation in fluid pressures within the brain tissue, or some kind
> of psychic sensory function? Or otherwise?
> 
>  curious Paco

Hi

Love your subject line; it caught my attention.

Sufi thought maintains that the "hit" as you call it is UNCONTROLLED (as  opposed
to negative energy)  contact with a higher mind.  Having been an  epileptic for
year, prior or k release, I associate it with electrical  energy, but not the
sort of gross electricity we generally think of:  a  finer electrical energy that
vibrates at such a high frequency that it  is more than capable of disabling the
conscious mind if you are  predisposed to it (tuned to receive?).  

Great question.  I'm looking forward to hearing some other responses too.

Thanks

jan
-


Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: AN APPEAL

tanmoy bhadra wrote:
> 
> 2.The term Kundalini is a sanskrit word and originated in India( and the
> term was coined by the ancient rishis)  and why does the bible or any other
>  religious text needs to be dragged is beyond me.I wish people stopped
> quoting religious text and treated the subject in the spirit it needs to
> be treated SCIENTIFICALLY.
> 
> 3.I wish people stopped using this as a general talk channel and treated
> it with more respect.

Hello and welcome

As one of the Perpetrators of other than scientific thought, I welcome  you in
sincerity, but I cannot comply with your rather narrow wish.  Let  me ask you
some questions if I may.  I treat my children, my students  with respect, but not
always scientifically; does this strike you as a  waste of time?  I treat many
people in my life with sometimes tenderness,  sometimes intellectual rigor,
sometimes with sympathy, depending on THEIR  needs rather than just my own.  Does
this strike you as simply  sentimental?  If many of us choose to treat Kundalini
as a force that  permeates our lives, whatever they may be, and then to share the
results  of this with each other, why does this bother you?  Only because of 
information overload?  
-
You see, this list is not a research facility for the purpose of  compliling
knowledge; it is a sharing of knowledge for the building and  sharing of wisdom.
 We hope you can join us in this endeavour.

jan
> 
> ----Tanmoy
> 

-


Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject: why are we here?

I am beginning to plan a move next spring from LA to DC after living  here for 21
years.  As much as this move would have been inconceivable  a few years ago (I am
giving up nearly EVERYTHING) it is now something  I feel compelled to do.  The
synchronicities and sense of things  "falling into place" that appear to be
facilitating the move are  uncanny, though I now almost take them for granted. 
But my bigger  question is does anybody have any idea yet what all this K stuff
is  FOR?  Are many of us being moved from place to place?  Is the feeling  of
mission common among us?  I'd love to hear about others who seemed  to walk out
of one life into another.  I did this once before but I was  a helluva lot
younger then!  Love,  Holly



-
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Genesis, kundalini, mythology

Do you mean the snake's appearance in
>mythology predates it's incorporation into kundalini symbolism?  What
>about the Hermetic caduceus as alchemical achetype (and its precise
>correlation with ida/pingala representations)?  What about the
>traditional vedic 1st chakra representations of the snake coiled at the
>base of the spine?  Do these uses not predate the Genesis myth?  

>What are the earliest references we have (either implied or direct) to
>kundalini in ancient literature?  Would you acknowledge Patanjali?  And
>how can we begin to trace these appearances through history (both with
>and without the serpent semiology)?  Is anybody aware of scholarly work
>in this area?
> 
I agree with Ken Wilbur, who lays out a cogent and thorough explanation in his
major work, A Brief History of Everything: Our "Gods" have changed throughout
time, and reflect the predominent mode of production of food. As
hunter/gatherers, where males by necessity brought home most of the food, the
male god predominated. As horticulture prevailed (something women did as well as
men), and both sexes were equally capable, a female goddess prevailed-- the
fertility was emphasized and worshipped. As agriculture came into being, (heavy
plows, etc, unsuitable for women) the male god came back. Now in the information
age, the female goddess (who represents more of the connective collaborative
talents needed here) is returning.

I have read that the same religions have been in place for ever. We celebrate the
change of seasons; the harvest, the equinoxes, etc. Similarly there are
archetypes of birth and death, sexuality, fertility, and the like. So the same
holidays, the same archetypes, (like a snake) have been around forever. It is
merely our interpretation of them that changes. I am sure snakes have been in
people's mythology since the beginning of thought. They have been in all the
mythologies I have ever seen that emerge from places where snakes live.

Genesis may be a myth that reflects the explanation the male paradigm wanted to
promote when it establishised priority with the coming of the agricultural era.
Perhaps earlier, the Garden of Eden was revered as the sacred home of the
goddess. People worshipped Eden then as they do heaven today.The male dominant
rulers needed to expel the rest of us from Eden so that we would focus on heaven
instead.

The male dominator thinking needed to drive out the female, so it introduced the
snake, and the concepts of sin and evil related to the snake. 

In some religions, the snake was considered benign. It represented knowledge of
the unconscious, and was  a "feminine" force.  So there may have been a
re-writing of the archetype. The snake is now bad. DO not go inside anymore. Do
not look to yourself for knowledge. Do not value the feminine, or intuition.
Listen to your local priest instead, HE has a more direct connection to Mr. God!

They needed to expel us from Eden so that we would focus on heaven instead.
Anyway, the point is that the snake has represented many things thorughout
history. Like doublespeak, it gets assigned political/religious meaning according
to the powers that be. So it has been considered both good and evil.

Beyond this political arena exists our own archetypal response to the snake. And
this is what I think is important. What do *I* feel about a snake? Expereince is
a better word than feel. *I* feel the snake, weaving, waving...like the universe,
both particle and wave, so very elemental, very represent of both types of
knowledge, integrated, a combination of dualities. This I feel is the reason the
snake has a powerful effect on ME.

The snake is like the k, it looks like a spine doesn't it? And the spine is the
highway up the chakras. These are MY interpretations. The snake waves and weaves,
almost looks like a fire flickering, doesn't it? The k fire, weaving and waving
up my highway, (no pun intended), carrying poison if not befriended and treated
with respect. Continuous, unchanging, moving ahead, instinct, power, sexuality,
undulation, duality in one, and more.

The snake, so elemental, so graceful, so powerful, so deadly, so
mesmerizing.....I can't look at one without being moved, usually frightened, but
also fascinated. I have painted the snake many times in my k paintings, the wave
attracts me deeply, as might a dancer gracefully waving to eloquent music. I have
connected the wave of the snake from earth to heaven and back again, have
connceted to snakes to form an infinity sign, one that goes on and on, the DNA,
the dance of the snake, sin and cosin, togehter cancelling each other out, or do
they acheive oneness, totality itself?
-
We are blessed to live in a day when our own personal opinions, feelings,
interpretations, and responses count. I know some on the list revere the *old*
doctrines, still they are ALL by nature political *and* sexist. This is neither
necessarily good nor bad, just so. Just reflections of how we get our food,
really.

I am open to appreciating them but I also value my own ability to feel what I
feel DIRECTLY, without needing anyone else's stamp of approval. Then, in true
snake fashion, wave and particle, me and you, I join what I know and experience
with the beauty of what others have said too. 

Best, traveler 


 



Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: LIShamanATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: On gaining knowledge

In a message dated 96-11-11 10:06:40 EST, you write:

> Going back to Eden might be temporaraly
>blocking our connection of thoughts so we don't see a chair, but see see
>differences in light, and objects and such.  

My sense is that enlightenment, individuation, or any other personal growth
process
requires that we separate from the cultural conditioning enough to sense who
we are uniquely, and what our personal destiny is.

John 



Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: why are we here?

Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote:
> [snipped]


Hi Holly

It's hard sometimes, isn't it. I've started anew 3 times in my life so  far, each
time with no more than I could take in my car and the last time  was with two
little ones without a car (no car, no licence).  I know it  will not be the last
time.  Certainly, it is good preparation for both  life and death - the leaving
behind of "things"  prevents us from  becoming attached to the material and to
time-space, so we turn to the  spiritual and this in turn helps us cope with the
ultimate leaving  and giving of our enitre being to the All. 

May you move be a blessing in spite of its anarchy.  I sometimes think  that by
keeping us off balance, it prevents us from settling into the  ultimate mode of
failure:  mediocrity.  I can't envisage you this way.

Good luck

jan



Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Re: Kundalini Hypothesis or Two

Breathe has everything to do with Kundalini. and living has a lot to  do with
Breathing.. giggling
flute



Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: why are we here?

Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote:
> [snipped]


Holly,
        I don't know that many are being told to leave and do something else,
but, there is a real focus on mission. I have been moving into an ever expanding
communication with folks in body and out of the body. My dreams and others have
come together so that we can communicate out of body and then meet in. This is
not just happening with people in my day to day live, which has been happening
for over 30 years, but people I'm meeting on the net. Some have joined our
spiritual group while living thousands of miles away, and a couple have actually
come here in the body to meet me. I guess I'm saying that the soul/spirit family
has grown in consciousness and expanded beyond the walls of time and space to
include beings from many dimensions beyond the physical. This is the mission made
manifest. And, this doesn't make any difference where  you are living in the
body. Gloria



-
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Genesis,Gnosticism ,"K" etc.

SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi: everyone:
> 
> I tend to think of the tree of life as the spine, and the snake/snakes---in
> some myths and the cadduceus there are 2-- as a symbol of DNA.  Use this idea
> and you'd be surprised how much clearer things become.
> 
> Another book to read is "The Other Bible" published by Harper and Collins.
>  The editor is Willis Barnstone and the paperback is ISBN 0-06-250030. This
> book contains all the stuff that was left out of the old and new testaments
> such as the Gnostic literature, Essene, Nag Hammadi, book of Enoch, Odes of
> Solomon etc.
> 
> As for reforming the church.  As one with a Christian personality and a very
> pagan soul, I don't think they are ready.  I have worked on this for years
> too, and frankly gentle persuasion of the type that opens the mind a little
> is as far as you can get---especially with the fundamentalist types.
>  Probably we need more Aquarian energies before the church begins to change
> more than it has.
> 
> For anyone who wrote to me recently will be away for a few more days, and
> will catch up with you later next week.
> 
> I appreciate all of you on this list.  Love the way we help each other and
> this is as important---helping souls as any material help we may do in the
> world.
> 
> For me soul /spirit work is the real work.   Set your mind on God's kingdom,
> and his justice before anything else, and all the rest will come to you as
> well.  matt 6 v 33 (NEB)
> 
> We need to fix ourselves inside before we can fix anyone else!
> 
> Love Jule,
> I'll miss you all while I"m away.


God Speed and Bring you the Joy of Perfect Love. Gloria