kundalini-l-d Digest                            Volume 96 : Issue 232 

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 
From: Robert Chalmers 
Subject: Kundalini Hypothesis or Two

I am enjoying many of the posts at the moment, however I would like to tack off
on a slightly different course.  I realise that we have a huge amount of
experience between us and we can explore the nature of the kundalini...

I have a hypothesis or two.

I read in an unknown book several years ago that the breath in the human body
alternates every (approximately) two hours from one side to the other.  This
alternation is evidenced by the breath being predominantly through one nostril
and then through the other. This is hard to believe, but if you do follow your
breathing you will see that it is in fact quite true!  It is very hard, however,
to adequately research and difficult to be so aware that you realise when you are
passing from one mode over to the other.  I do not know if there is a difference
between the sexes or not.  I also do not know if this would have significance for
kundalini, although like everyone else, I believe kundalini, prana and breath are
linked.  The breathing may be an external symptom of the ida/pingali phenomenon.
Does anyone have any thoughts?

Another one. Many people think they are particularly "blessed" by the arousal of
kundalini and they may think that they are now in some way unique.  Powerful food
for the egotistical in us all.  Could it possibly be different?  I remember
discussing some of my "mature" kundalini experiences (chakra energy etc.) with a
baptist christian to find that he also experienced the same kind of feelings. 
Maybe, goes my second hypothesis, I had sunk to such a spiritually low level
prior to the kundalini experience, that an experience of God would inevitably
lead to a powerful release of energy which was suppressed to an extremely low
level.  Hence the explosive effect of kundalini rising up the spine. 

Not something to be incredibly proud of, although neither is it something to be
ashamed of...

Robert
-


Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: St. John of the Cross

Imagine my surprise on just now reading 'The Ascent of Mt Carmel' by St John of
the Cross (after so many years of wondering about this 'Dark Night' business),
and seeing his diagram of the ascent sketching a very striking similarity to the
shape of brain hemispheres with  3 paths coming in from the bottom, a large
central path and two smaller side paths on either side.  I was struck immediately
by the suggestion  of the nadi channels. 

In what I've read so far I have not seen that he explicitly  describes any
'esoteric' physiology like kundalini, but he must have experienced it given the
depth of his transformation. 

He does have some good advice on visions and auditions, reinforcing  the classic
eastern advice to not seek them or put too much  significance into them, even
though they are positive signs.

anyway, check out the picture, the book is in the 'Classics of Western
Spirituality' series currently in print, called just 'St John of the Cross'.

His second version of the diagram published in some other books is not as
striking in its brain similarity as the original version of the  diagram.

This site has the second version of the diagram:

http://ccel.wheaton.edu/john_of_the_cross/ascent/ascent.html

anyway....

"Nothing, nothing, nothing ... and even on the Mount, Nothing." 
San Juan de la Cruz
(the description of the middle path)

Cheers

-

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Genesis, kundalini, mythology

Philip St. Romain wrote:
> ...
> The practical aspects of this are obvious.  I appreciate the many postings
> that emphasize a "go with the flow" regarding the energy, but I am
> concerned about those which suggest willful attempts to raise the energy
> before its time, sometimes, it seems, with no particular spirituality or
> higher power to guide the process.  This is extremely dangerous, in my
> view.

Hi, Nietzsche is a good example of this, in some ways. 
(as well as Nijinsky and Van Gogh and ... myriads of schizophrenics?)
Though not having any living spiritual tradition to affiliate 
with was no fault of his.  His case shows both the inevitability 
of KA given the depth of the quest, and the 
danger given the absence of support. 
He wasnt really 'willful' in arousing K, I think, 
he recognized the power and stood in awe of it, and recognized 
how 'unheard of' it was in western history.  
It was an 'accident' that provoked his final K-arousal, 
where he tried to rescue a horse that was being flogged.
His final conscious act being one of self-sacrifice.

Nietzsche:

~1880: "If there was a God, how could I bear not 
to be a God? ergo there is no God!"

~1888: "When will I find the strength to summon you, 
my abysmal thought? ... What is happening to me?"

1889:  "Are we content?  I am the God who 
created this farce!"

Dec 1889: "Sing me a new song! The world is 
transformed and all the heavens sing with joy!"

after 1890: "I wrote good books once, didnt I?"

Anyway, just goes to show that evolution is not 
always pretty.

Let us all be grateful for the ancestors!

cheers
-


Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: muscle bound

traveler wrote:
> 
> At 03:04 PM 11/9/96 -0800, you wrote:
> >My physiological k symptoms thus far have been relatively mild, but the
> >past few days, in addition to the usual joint pain, I have had muscle
> >spasms in my neck, back and lower abdomen.  I've been taking the
> >magnesium as so many have recommended, but does anybody know WHY k
> >should affect the body in this way?  Is it like an energy overload in
> >the muscle system or something?  Just wondering (and tied up in a
> >knot).  Holly
> >
> Point of clarification:
> 
> The magnesium alone I have found is very helpful for Nerve problems,
> burning, etc.
> 
> For muscle things, I would take Calcium/magnesium--start with 1000/500.
> (These are two separate rememdies to 2 separate concerns).
> 
> Best, traveler
> 
> PS With my migraines I often get lots of muscle spasms...the migraines are
> like storms, or tornadoes, that wave through me, and I suspect they are
> k-related...don't understand the why's beyond getting everyone's theory de
> jour...nothing seems to help......(except the cal/mag, and the mag).....(The
> cal/mag is a very common prescription for muscle relaxation. I tend to like
> Jule's comments on using these minerals to benefit). Jule?

HI, I suggest looking into biomagnetics for the magraines, you can look at it and
the ten's unit which doctors are now using to relieve this. They say it is like
at 100% with the Nikken Ten's unit. Gloria


-
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 
From: Mistress Angelique Serpent 
Subject: A love gift.

  This is a love-gift, to all the K. list members.
This is a favorite song of mine, and it has become inextricably connected in my
mind to my warm feelings about K. list. I cannot share the lovely melody, or the
passion in Kate's voice, but allow me to share her words. They were written in
1989, long before email lists.
-     

                    Deeper Understanding.

  As the people here grow colder, 
I turn to my computer,
 and spend my evenings with it like a friend.
  I was loading a new program, I had ordered from a magazine "Are you lonely are
you lost? This voice console is a MUST" I press execute:

- Hello, I know that you've been feeling tired.
I bring you love and deeper understanding.
Hello, I know that you're unhappy.
I bring you love and deeper understanding.

Well I've never felt such pleasure, 
nothing else seemed to matter, 
I neglected my bodily needs.
I did not eat, I did not sleep, the intensity increasing.
Till my family found me, and intervened.
- But I was lonely I was lost,
without my little black box.
I pick up the phone and go execute:

 Hello, I know that you've been feeling tired.
I bring you love and deeper understanding.
Hello, I know that you're unhappy.
I bring you love and deeper understanding.

Hello, I love you, give me love and deeper understanding.
-
I turn to my computer, like a friend.

Give me deeper understanding.
I need deeper understanding.

I need deeper understanding.
Give me deeper understanding.

I hate to leave ya.
I hate to leave ya.
I hate to leave ya.
I hate to leave ya.
I hate to leave ya.
I hate to leave ya.
I hate to leave ya.
I hate to lose you.
 
       C. !989, Novercia Records. From the Kate Bush Album, The Sensual World.

-  I have decided nt to unsub to K. List, during my wanderings. I'll just have to
deal with the long distance charges. Y'all are worth it, and totally addictive
besides!!
                Blessings, Angelique.  

                   Mistress Angelique Serpent, 
                Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
            Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
        *******************
"Feel your hair come tumblin' down, feel your feet start kissin the ground.
Feel your arms are opening out. And feel your eyes are lifted to God.
With no words, with no song, I'm gonna dance the dream, and make the dream
come true.
I'm gonna dance the dream, and make the dream come true ( She gotta dance...)"
                         Kate Bush, "The Red Shoes"
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.



-
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 
From: Tim Duna 
Subject: Re: Genesis, kabalist, and kundalini

At 11:06 AM 11/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, gang: let's talk a little more about Geneis, the serpent, kundalini and
>the kabalah.
>
>>Aaron,
>>        I must say that I myself am a seeker about the Bible and am excited
>>to reply.  I have come across some interesting things about it in my search.
>>For one, the OT is a Kabalistic work.
>
>No it's not, Tim.  See my response below.
        
        I may have been presumptuous a bit.  It appears to be a kabalistic
work.  
>It is simply not true that the Old Testament was written by Kabalists (this
>is not a matter of subjective belief, but objective, historical fact, which
>anyone can research and verify.)   When interpreting the scriptures of any
>tradition, it is important to first and foremost understand what the
>author(s) were trying to communicate (not what we project into their
>minds).  The Genesis account of creation is a synthesis of at least four
>sources of Hebrew oral tradition.  Other books of the Old Testament derive
>from these and other Hebrew traditions.  The book was not written or edited
>by any one person or group (no, not even Moses!).  

        The bible stories are an oral tradition you say.  Well kabalah, *is* a
Jewish oral tradition, historically.  Originally it wasn't written at all, and to
this day, there is a substantial oral kabalah.  I will say also that the
kabalists are not the original Jewish mystical system.  There was a more ancient
one that scholars have uncovered (and know very little about) called merkabah
mysticism.  Scholars believe it is early Jewish shamanism.  In merkabah, one
would ride a chariot of fire (merkabah) through the seven worlds.  This merkabah
has little or no relation to the new-age use of the word 'merkabah'.  

>The Kabalists figure
>very insignificantly, here, as there is little evidence of their existence
>prior to 100 B.C. (Abraham was 1,800 B.C.; David around 1,000 B.C.).  There
>was a large body of Scripture (the entire Old Testament!) already formed
>when the kabalists appeared.  It seems that the kabalists were more
>influenced by gnosticism and neo-Platonism than by Judaism; they seemed to
>project the former into the latter.

        I would agree about this as far as the known origins of kabalah. However
the neo-Platonism and gnosticism are not the origins of kabalah, but use it, or a
similar form of it.  They are Hermetic influences (at least the neo-Platonists),
offshoots of the Egyptian mystery schools.  How you define 'gnosticism' will give
you your answer to their origins, it seems to be a catch all pharse of sorts.  It
would seem that many mystery schools and traditions carrying similar yet unique
characteristics appeared in this region of the world.  My guess for an origin or
a centerpiece would be Egypt, there we can find the Pyramids, temples of
intiation.  This is contrary to what scholars believe, but I had rememberance of
an initiation there in the great pyramid.        

        However, it would seem that the bible has been changed or has had
variations to it's scripture.  We can see this in the comparisons of the Sumerian
texts, and also alternative texts, ones that didn't make it into the bible.  The
Nag Hammadi Library is a later example, the 'Lost Books of Eden' is an earlier
example, as far as a timeline within the bible.  I believe what we have gotten
today is mistranslations made by scholars through the centuries.  Just look at
the King James' version of the bible and you'll see what I mean, look how it
differs from the other revisions.


>>Kabalah is the Jewish mystical
>>tradition (for those who don't know) and they have full knowledge of K.
>
>Highly debatable!
-
        Not so.  A K initiation from above has been said to feel like a lightning
bolt coming down into the body.  In kabalah, the lightning bolt is a symbol drawn
upon the Tree, descending through the sephiroth or spheres. The kabalists have
very complete, exact and complicated figures of the creation of the universe
(differing somewhat from the bible).  It is my opinion upon seeing these that it
didn't come from unintelligent people, but rather those that have been awakened.
 Kabalah means 'secret book', because their traditions have been kept mainly
secret doesn't mean that they don't have knowledge of K.  In fact it infers that
they do.  Many of the secret sects of ancient times had very aware knowledge of
kundalini and reality creation (magic), the reasons behind their secrecy.  K has
quite a power that it brings to the individual, power that could be misused if
fallen into the hands of the ignorant.  Power that could harm the individual or
others. One of the requirements of kabalah in Jewish tradition is humility before
power.

        Another thing that infers they knew of K is the way the Tree is split
into three pillars.  One of Severity, one of Mercy, and one of Mildness.  An
active force (severity) a passive force (mercy) and a neutral force (mildness). 
 
>>In fact the OT is a very purposeful book, every word has meaning.  It is meant
>>to be kept in Hebrew only, as well as the NT (to be kept in it's original
>>language, Coptic), as the words are made up of the 'sacred alphabet'.
>
>Wrong again: several of the works appeared in Greek in their original
>version; most were written in Hebrew.

        Actually, the OT is originally Aramaic, a pre-Hebrew alphabet.  I know
this conflicts my position about not the orginal languages, but see my paragraph
about kabalah being the bible that was passed down.  Coptic is the oldest
language used so far that they have found to translate the NT from, as far as I
know. 

        I should have commented above that the kabalists are the ones that
believe that every word in the bible has meaning and placement for a reason.  

>>This is why it says in the bible that the words shall not be changed,
>>unfortunatly,
>>they have been and so have the meanings.
>
>What are you implying?  That someone changed the words of Scripture without
>the Jews knowing about it?  Who do you think did this?  And why?  What
>evidence do you have for this?  Sounds like conspiracy theory number 3,212!

        There is a reference (I'm not sure where exactly in rev. to be honest) in
revelation there is a passage about not changing the words or they would sin or
something to that extent.  A Christian group actually showed me this when I began
explaining to them that what was translated was not the original meaning. 
Anyway, in translation, it has lost it's meaning, this is fact.  'Lord' does not
refer to YHWH all the time, or even God in the OT.  'Lord' is the word used in
translation to the Coptic word for teacher in the NT at times.    
 
>As for numerology, it certainly was taken more seriously by the Jews and
>Christians of ancient times than their later counterparts.   Nevertheless,
>the Bible is not a text of numerological expression.  There have been many
>attempts to do numerological analyses of the texts, and some have claimed
>to establish definite correlations.  Modern scholars who have delved into
>this have concluded that some of the authors were making an effort at
>numerological "syntax", but most others were not.  Rather than the Bible
>being a numerological code that was later changed by unsympathetic editors,
>the converse seems to be the case: that a few editors tried to impose
>numerological text-ing.  The Hebrew language was (and is) quite capable of
>expressing the Hebrew experience of God without tying it to a numerological
>base.

        It is gematria, different than numerology.  The bible seems to show the
sciences of astrology, gematria, numerology, and purported by some alchemists,
alchemy throughout it.  Why is there a book of 'numbers' anyway, how do scholars
explain this?  Why is the bible making references to bulls, lambs and fish?  Are
these not three zodiacal ages in a row?  Taurus, Capricorn (lamb=baby ram) and
Pisces?  There definitely seems to be more to the bible than scholars have
uncovered.  Who are scholars anyway?  A voice for the masses that tells us what
is true and what isn't?  Must we follow their slants like sheep and neglect what
they neglect?

        It seems that in the bible, we find things that scholars are baffeled
about and ignore.  Why does it contain so many references to body parts, animals,
oil, stones, etc?  These are all symbols, or metaphysical tools that are
congruent with kabalistic or Coptic ideals.  Tell me, what the heck is the 'lamb
of God' anyway?  Somehow, through the translations, we have lost the knowledge
encrypted through symbol into the texts.  

>I don't know how the above affects the slant on Genesis and kundalini that
>you shared.  Certainly, a kabalistic and even a numerological
>interpretation of Genesis is valid, but not because that's how the text was
>originially written or intended to be understood.

        I should make this clear as my intention: I am aware that the bible has
deeper roots, what I refer to as the bible is what the scholars have uncovered,
translated and shipped out as 'the bible'.  Did the kabalists later form their
ways to the bible, or was it written by them?  That I will have to be honest and
say, I don't know.  But from what I have seen, the bible is a kabalistic work,
meaning knowledge of kabablah, hebrew and having the original words is necessary
to decode it completely.  At best we get a somewhat confusing read in english. 
The few bits of translation that I have read (which is more litereal of the
original language) refer directly to things on the Tree of Life.  God names,
symbols, angels, body parts, etc. It is my bias then that the bible refers to
different parts of the Tree of Life in various passages, making a complementary
tool for study of the Tree. My bias is no different than any other scholar's
opinion of things, we just generally tend to believe that the scholars are the
end of truth when they aren't, any scholar will tell you that.


Tim
     



Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Hello

Marc Nevas wrote:
> 
> Dear Members of the Kundalini list,[snipped]


Marc, 
HI,     
        I'm Gloria Joy Greco. Check out my homepage at
http://www.inetworld.com/lodpress/

After doing that I think we will have a lot to share. I to am a mixture of east
and west and have also been teaching meditation for around 31 years now. I've
been involved with the awakened kundalini for all of my adult life and most of my
youth as well. So, it is good to have an opportunity to touch bases and share.
Talk soon. Gloria

This address is our publishing company address, my partner Larry Newman is also
involved on the path nad we use the e-mail from here.
-


Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: The Otherside

Jim Cook wrote:
> 
>      (  Ghosts, Spirits,  Entities. )
> 
>      Dear Listmembers,
> 
>      I was just wondering if there was a difference in all three or are
>      they the same ?
>      I have seen three ghosts during my lifetime but this was many years
>      before my "K" awakening.
>      I haven't seen any since but I see these little dots of light zipping
>      about. Some are orange but most of them are blue.
>      When I look directly at them, they disappear.
> 
>      Any Idea what these could be ?
> 
>      Jim

You won't see that much until your third eye is open, and then they come to you
like moth's to the light.For this reason it is important to be stationed in the
Heart Center so that you have all of the inner qualities to use to see through
them. When you are out of the body and are attacked by lower forces you will
definitely remember those encounters, those that are positive are of a different
frequency, and the thing to realize the more you are into Divine Will the more of
a target you are. Until you are someway into the realization process you are
barely even worth coming at, once in it and well into the letting go process then
you become an important target. The soul that is really committed to the light
are the pearls of great price. For this reason, don't force that center open,
when you are ready and everything is prepared then it isn't a big deal at all.
People often want to see Aura's. Why? Then you know way to much about people, it
is bad enough to intuit peoples thoughts, emotions, feelings, but when you see it
and feel it, it is just another thing to be detached from. Not a blessing at all
unless it is for Divine Will. Gloria
-


Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 
From: FlarityjATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: dominance paradigm Part 1:SM Shamanism.

Dear Angelique,

I was surprised at how much I enjoyed your post.  It takes a special presence of
mind to deal with incongruity (the Koan).  It challenged me to imagine living
completely in an incongruous situation as I imagine that you do.

Then it struck me that we all live in various forms of incongruity, the
perception of which is deeply affected by our own bias.

I raise cattle that I perceive as unique and loving creatures sharing this
journey with me as their benefactor and ultimately--their executioner.
 Should I cease and raise trees instead to turn into paper?  Should I head to the
mountains and drink my water only in the daylight?  The wheel of life turns on
and nothing consisting of matter (to my knowledge) escapes its turning.

Who is the crueler--you or I?   
Love without judgement--It is a wonderful feeling.

And may peace be with Hitler tonight, wherever he is, for the one he hated most
was himself.

Joe

-

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 
From: veda002 
Subject: Re: Kundalini Hypothesis or Two

Robert Chalmers wrote:
> 

> I read in an unknown book several years ago that the breath in the human
> body alternates every (approximately) two hours from one side to the
> other.  This alternation is evidenced by the breath being predominantly
> through one nostril and then through the other. This is hard to believe,
> but if you do follow your breathing you will see that it is in fact
> quite true!  It is very hard, however, to adequately research and
> difficult to be so aware that you realise when you are passing from one
> mode over to the other.  I do not know if there is a difference between
> the sexes or not.  I also do not know if this would have significance
> for kundalini, although like everyone else, I believe kundalini, prana
> and breath are linked.  The breathing may be an external symptom of the
> ida/pingali phenomenon. Does anyone have any thoughts?
> 
Here's some thoughts in reply, Robert.  This is from my own direct experience and
I'm sure others will back me up.

The breath is directly linked to 'chi' or 'prana', and the 'chi' is directly
linked to the kundalini - but only as a stepping stone or platform from which to
ignite.  Once the true kundalini stretches forth, breathing STOPS completely, and
a beautiful white light fills the body and spine and chakras; the body can feel
etheric. I repeat, there is no breathing.
-
That of course was a peak experience, the kundalini wisdom is at work constantly
cleaning our body and generally being a pain in the ass!

thanks for listenin'
veda