kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 214 

Date: Sat,  2 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

Fantastic.. yes.. Kundalini starts at the Base Chakra in my thinking.

flute
yeeeeha!





Date: Sat,  2 Nov 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Hallowe'en
-
YES!.. me too and the day after halloween I felt very strange.. tired 
and exhausted.  Too much of anything isn't good.  Food for thought.. 
giggling
.. confusion (G)says.." Moderation in all things" (he's right the 
balance is what we are seeking)
E=mc2   Nothing is destroyed just transformed.. All is energy.  
Postive and negative inspired by another faction in the atom. Like 
the entire universe.. and the chinese symbol yin/yang. perpetual 
motion..
grin.. 
Carolyn Maloney
Reiki Master


From:	 Daniel Rusch-Fisch
Subject:	 Hallowe'en
Date:	 11/01
Time:	 06:04 PM

-


Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: On meat and meatheads

Larry Newman (Gloria) wrote:
> 
> ... so much falls away because of the pure frequency of
> the energy you live through, and the neat thing, it just happens. It's
> like, it is natural for me to not speak in profane langugage, it just
> doesn't happen, what is more interesting, when people are around me > and
> they same something, they always apologize. And, for the most part it
> just goes in one ear and out the other side without even in real > notice
> on my part, but I have had people come up to me and really apologize.

I am really confused.  People spontaneously come up and apologize when
they use rude language in Gloria's presence?  Why would this be?   

I am particularly confused having just read this passage from Alan Watts
yesterday:

I remember Soki Antsuzaki, who was a great Zen master, sitting in his
gorgeous golden robes, with incense burning in front of him, and his
scriptures open on the stand, and holding a sort of sceptor that Zen
masters occasionally hold, and reading a passage from the sutra, then by
commment saying, 'Fundamental principle of Buddhism is purposelessness.
Most important to attain state of no purpose. When you drop fart, you
don't say 'At 9:00, I drop fart.' It just happen.' And all this kind
crypto-Christain audience, very embarrassed, stuffing handherchiefs into
their mouths. 

In Chinese, their word for nature is 'tzu-jan,' in Japanese, 'shi-jen,'
at that means, 'what is so of itself.' [snip> as the poem says, 

	When the wild geese fly over the lake, The water does not intend 	to
reflect them, 
	And the geese have no mind to cast their image. 

(me again) Does this mean that the Zen master would have been
spontaneously and magically compelled to apologize if Gloria was there?
How large a radius? Or would Soki Antsuzaki have been unable to comment
on the sutra at all??  Or would Gloria simply have been unable to hear
the commentary??? Or, worse yet, have I stumbled on one of the forbidden
"dark koans?"

Somebody please explain. These forces sure are funny!

Juliet (a seeker of truth)
-
P.S. For the complete text of the Alan Watts talk, please see:
http://deoxy.org/w_value.htm



Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: K experience

>Does anyone else have guides that have appeared to them in dreams to 
>teach them about the experience. Or have you just been ignoring the 
>dreams.. smile.. 
>The Cherokee also have experienced the same energy rising and have a 
>different name for it.. (I haven't a clue as to how to say it, or 
>spell it).  I attended a Medicine Wheel this past year and was amazed 
>at the energy and obvious Kundalini experiences.. without drugs..  
>Cherokee is a woodland Tribe and they believe in the absolute natural.
>
My kundalini "wahtever"-guide, energy, ???, talks to me a about 4 times a
year, in dreams. I lie there for hours, half awake and half asleep, and a
message comes through. It is always accurate.

It told me to write a book and even told me what to say.(My book will be out
shortly!)

It has told me to stay on track at certain times and in certain ways; to
avoid certain people and paths and to embrace others.

I always know when it is the k because it stays for several hours; maybe I
switch from being asleep to awake; it doens't matter. It feels very
pleasurable, orgasmic, at times; at other times it is compelling with a
nightmare quality (when I get the warnings). In all cases, I feel like I am
seeing into the future, looking at a reality that exists in another
dimension, that feels very, very real.

It is always something significant, and I am sure to listen. I welcome these
experiences greatly.

Best, traveler
-


Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 
From: "L.D. McClanahan, Ph.D., Psych" 
Subject: Re: On meat and meatheads

Larry Newman wrote:
> 
> Philip St. Romain wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Everything is as you believe it to be.. If you believe that you can't
> > >have meat to understand the energy rising experience then you
> > >probably won't be able to.   Just remember that the only limitation
> > >are the ones you place on yourself. Find where your beliefs stem from
> > >and if you wish.. change them..
> > >hugs,
> > >flute
> > >Carolyn Maloney
> > >Reiki Master, Empathic, Light worker
> > >Kundalini Awakened. Intuitive Explorer (psychic)
> > >http://pages.prodigy.com/flute
> >
> > Hmmm... Within limits, Carolyn!  Or, such is my experience.  How I would
> > love to drink beer like I used to, or smoke Kool cigarettes, or eat
> > barbequed pork ribs and bacon (yum), or have sex like I used to (pretty 2nd
> > chakra).  It wasn't my narrow beliefs that forced me to give up these
> > things, for, initially, I didn't even know what was happening.  My dietary
> > and sexual beliefs were pretty liberal {even for a Catholic :)}.  It was my
> > bodily experience that called me to change my dietary and sexual practices.
> > I can "cheat" a little from time to time, but not for too long without
> > paying consequences (unbalanced energy, raw nerves, sluggishness, etc.)
> >
> > The body is real and it operates within its own realm of lawfulness.
> > Thought can alter it for awhile, but not for too long.  Even the Buddha
> > died after consuming poison!  Each must find what works best to bring the
> > body into integration with the process.  In fact, this seems to be
> > precisely the point of the process: to transform the body so that one can
> > live more fully and consistently in spiritual consciousness.  So it seems
> > to me, at least.
> >
> > Peace to all.  Phil St. Romain (a nostalgic pork-eater)
> 
> Hi to all,
>         There is a simple rule that works well in so many things in life,
> everything in moderation. If you pretty much live a balanced life in
> focus with divine will, your body will tell you what is appropriate and
> what isn't. And, without even trying the habits will change because the
> focus is different. So much falls away because of the pure frequency of
> the energy you live through, and the neat thing, it just happens. It's
> like, it is natural for me to not speak in profane langugage, it just
> doesn't happen, what is more interesting, when people are around me and
> they same something, they always apologize. And, for the most part it
> just goes in one ear and out the other side without even in real notice
> on my part, but I have had people come up to me and really apologize.
> GloriaHi,

	Let me get two cents into meat and what we put in our bodies.  
Recently I started on homopathic treatments.  The DO has a woman trained 
to use an 18,000.00 computerized system for electrodermal screening 
which uses an electrode at acupuncture meridians in the hands and feet 
to check ohms resistence, the way that ancient healers might scan the 
body.  The computer program then puts out a wave form showing the energy 
for that organ or body system.  If that organ or body system is toxic 
then it shows by high amplitude on the computer screen.  Homopathic 
remedies are prescribed to detoxify that organ or body system.
	I suspect that K-energy is purifying those same channels and 
when one has trouble with meat or something eaten, or just in agony with 
K rising, that some organ system is blocked.  Dr. Dan Clark in Fla. at 
1-800-288-9525 trains people to use EDS.  In short, homopathic remedies 
may help facilitate K integration and relieve symptoms.  Of course, 
biological individuality may also play a part in why some can eat meat 
and others not.  I do not doubt the power of belief, as noted by some, 
but the manifested physical has its own criteria for balance. . .  L.D.



Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 
From: LIShamanATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: On meat and meatheads

My favorite advice about diet came from a man named Charlie
Lutes from the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM), a branch
of the TM movement before they focused on science and research.

He said: "Eat what is fresh and delicious".  Fresh so that it is full of
nutrition, and delcious because your body needs something from it.

Blessings,
John



Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 
From: slcofksATNOSPAMfeist.com (Philip St. Romain)
Subject: Gnosticism and Exoterica

>
>Philip St. Romain wrote:
->
>> As for gnosticism, it was a rather diverse movement.  Some of it
>> greatly influenced Origen and other mystics in the early Church; some > of it
>> came to be roundly condemned for its rejection of the body and denial > of
>> the bodiliy existence of Jesus.  (etc.)
>
>Okay, I guess you are *not* a big gnosticism fan.  I have been working
>on a biography of science fiction writer Philip K. Dick who (I
>postulate) had a "kundalini" experience.  He became, well, almost
>obsessed with gnosticism toward the end of his life.  And, btw, he was a
>close friend of Bishop James Pike.
>
>The word on the street is that the gnostics had some measure of esoteric
>teachings that the church proper withheld from people...

What street is that, Juliet?

>
>> If we see kundalini as a universal aspect
>> in all spiritual development, then it must be present in some manner
>> in all
>> forms of mysticism, even those which end up unbalanced.
>
>I guess the key word here is "development." Kundalini isn't, I don't
>think, obviously part of *all* forms of mysticism.  Not the lay variety,
>at any rate. Or?  Or perhaps this really depends on how one defines
>"mysticism?"

Or. . .what we decide to call kundalini.  There are some who attribute all
growth unto k, and others who use the term primarily in reference to what
Sannella calls the physio-kundalini phenomena of an arousal or awakening.
I can see both points of view, but I believe this list is more about the
latter.

>
>I guess what I'm curious about is: do you think that there has always
>been an exoteric and an esoteric aspect to the church (and other
>organized religions)?  The esoteric holding the keys to
>kundalini-related teachings? Or do you see it (k) as more capricious?

Definitely--an exoteric and esoteric dimension to any tradition (including
the new age, by the way), and the two exist in a certain necessary tension.
To overdo the exoteric turns religion into a matter of roles, rules, and
obligations.  To pursue the esoteric (i.e. experiential dimension) without
some kind of exoteric grounding (conceputal framework, community
involvement, common prayer) can result in very unbalanced--even
narcissistic spiritualities.  The exoteric is supposed to be the "finger
pointing to the moon."  It gets a bad rap, for some of its "curators"
aren't very esoteric.  But that doesn't negate the importance of an
exoteric tradition.
->
>I take it your own "awakening" was spontaneous.
>>Perhaps these questions are dealt with in your book... I'll keep an eye
>out for it.

It was spontaneous--I didn't even know the word "kundalini."  The awakening
happened in the context of a deepening of Christian contemplative prayer.

>Thanks for your thoughtful answer...
>
>Juliet
>
>P.S. Loved you meat/meathead post.

I've enjoyed your posts as well!  Phil



Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 
From: "L.D. McClanahan, Ph.D., Psych" 
Subject: Re: Hallowe'en

Daniel Rusch-Fischer wrote:
> 
> Hi all ya (k)ites,
> Last night we passed out the goodies as usual and as usual there were a
> passel of mini-candy-bars left over. OK, OK I admit it - I was into
> them even before Hallowe'en started. But, it brings up a very important
> point as far as k-awakening and diet goes. I have been craving sugar
> like crazy since this thing began. Also, I have been fighting it like a
> madman as my weight has always been a problem - I mentioned that I have
> managed to take off 130# and keep it off over the past two years.
> [snipped]

	Two possibilities for sugar craving come the mind.  First, 
K-energy requires more energy.  Second, you may be needing Chromium as 
supplement as Ch is required to help metabolize insulin and our soil in 
USA does not provide enough.  Regardless, your weight problem is 
symbolic that metabolically you are out of balance, K or not.  L.D.

-

Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re; Conference, 

The point is not whether any individual can or cannot handle "k".  That seems
to be moot, in that if it happens one has to handle it like it or not,-----
rather can we handle "k" en masse,? especially if we have not sufficiently
grounded ourselves after the "k" experience.  There are many who have become
seriously ill mentally or physically as a result of handling too much of the
energy at once. This is my concern.  Some of us may not be as ready as we
would like to think.

As for the intellectual discussions on the list.  We learn best from
unconditional love.  So discussions need to be in that light.  Intellectual
wit is fine, if you know the person well enough to know they appreciate your
wit.  One man's wit may be another man's poison---we are all different in how
we perceive.  So we need to be sure the discussions don't get too
acrimonious.
-
In any case "k' is about evolution.  When you get to the higher centers you
realise that the core of the universe, it's"reason to be" is love.  Hence
evolution becomes the will to love enough to evolve spiritually, mentally and
physically etc i.e at all levels of being..  In the higher centers mentality
is replaced by intuition.  This involves being careful not to offend, and to
only speak your truth in love. Often this is what happens on this list, but
sadly not always.

When a group of people is together the mass energy can be enormous.  Look at
mobs and what they do in the heat of the moment.  Hopefully if this group got
together it would be in the spirit of love, then it could be wonderful.  But
what if some came with hidden agendas?  And there is still the problem that
no matter how well an individual handles "k"....at certain times in the
process they need to isolate from people, not join a crowd.

I am normally a very gregarious person, but for a long time after "k" I found
myself unable to function in crowds.  Others I have spoken to were in even
worse shape than I was.  While I no longer  have a problem, I cannot speak
for all.  That is why I wrote that caution.  In the spirit of love and
concern for others who may be struggling with the energy.

Love Jule



Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 
From: Robert Chalmers 
Subject: How to get off of this mailing list

Please go to http://www.telebyte.nl/krce/listserv.html using your
web-browser.  There are instructions there on how to get off the mailing
list.



Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: Unconditional love

Hello all

Help me out please.  I keep hearing the term, "unconditional love" used 
rather freely on this list, and I can't for the life of me figure out 
what it means to those out there.  I know the "generic" definition; it's 
been used on me before; you know, "I love you, unconditionally, but..."
Those but's include personal reasons why the speaker comes before the 
person spoken to.  Those buts include the right to choose who the speaker 
chooses to love unconditionally, at any given point in time.  I have 
never yet met anyone or read anyone other than perhaps some of the wise 
ones of antiquity and a few truly rare and far apart individuals of today 
that in fact live these words rather than pay lip service to them.  

Did you love Dohmer unconditionally, do you love the politicians 
unconditionally, when someone has deliberately taken advantage of you or 
a friend or your child, do you sit down and cleanse the anger from out of 
yourself and say, "I love you unconditionally'?  

Unconditional love, to me is what is given by one who has no need to 
consider the self, otherwise, the self sets a condition - I matter.  The 
self that makes choices rather than takes each human as he comes to him 
cannot love unconditionally. Unconditional love, at times, also needs to 
be strict and rigid if it is in the best interest of the one loved, it is 
not just a soppy "feeling"; but made of sterner stuff.    

Am I too harsh, or is the term being used a little too loosely?  

And yes, it is about K.  It must be.  I've never heard the term used so 
often as on this list.  I suspect that the K experience gives us a 
fragment, a taste  of what it might be to be loved this way and so draws 
us....

Thanks

jan



Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 
From: raunakATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu (raunak kothari)
Subject: EPISTEMOLOGY, CAUSALITY & EXPERIENCE

JULE wrote regarding the idea of a conference:

>The point is not whether any individual can or cannot handle "k".  That seems
>to be moot, in that if it happens one has to handle it like it or not,-----
>rather can we handle "k" en masse,? especially if we have not sufficiently
>grounded ourselves after the "k" experience.  There are many who have become
>seriously ill mentally or physically as a result of handling too much of the
>energy at once. This is my concern.  Some of us may not be as ready as we
>would like to think.
>

It seems that people cannot attune themselves to the energy until they are
really ready.  That seems to be the one aspect of kundalini that
distinguishes it from other feelings--it's the one feeling (besides orgasm)
that you cannot convince yourself you are feeling, if you are not feeling
it.

Of those who have become ill, it seems questionable whether there exists a
causal relationship between the arousal and the illness--many illnesses are
preexisting but brought to light--bringing to light is often confused in
this world as causing.

Another thing that I'm unclear about is all the talk of being able to
"handle" kundalini.  My experience with kundalini has, unlike ALL of my
other experiences, been purely positive--with no trace of negative
elements.  This seems to be a natural rule, but is it really an exception?

raunak kothari
raunakATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu