kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 208 

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Chakras-Fingers-Channels

Several people asked where I got my information about the parts of the 
hand reflecting the chakras and the concept that the left and right 
channels represent past/present etc. Sorry it took so long. I often 
remember what I read, but am lousy at bibliographical recollection. In 
addition to what is here there were points made at lectures on the 
subject. The questions that people had seemed to indicate that the 
information presented here is not universal. I guess that I thought 
there was just one accepted viewpoint on this stuff - now I find out 
that there are supposed to be 12,000 (or some huge number) chakras and 
that different groups have different placements of the chakras, etc.

Anyway, the URL for the info that I was speaking of is: 
http://www.halcyon.com/sahajnet/chakras.html



Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Words From Einstein

That was a fantastic quotee I have another one to share from old Al, 

"Nature shows us only the tail of the lion."



Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 
From: Antaris Ra 
Subject: N o  Saturday Night Feeber tonight

Beloved Ones:
It is cool in Paraguay and in North-America, too
so there is no kundalini hot - (feeber) tonight - but may be with you
directly right now
so do it  - and let have  you no influence from nobody how is not inthe 
LIGHT
LOVE simply is
Antaris



Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 
From: windows 
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center

BCALMATNOSPAMGREENHEART.COM wrote:
> Unfortunately the term Kundalini itself is still
> normally taken as something related to Yoga or strictly Indian or
> Eastern, while actually it exists in all traditions under different
> names and in somewhat different forms, such as kalabah (sp?) and Chi,or
> Holy Spirit in action, for instance. But basically it is the mechanism
> of the evolution of human mind as Gopi Ksrishna genuinely speculated.
-

Hello all.  I'm new here and am dealing with much recent K activity. 
Just a few words above the above said by greenheart.  I must preface
this with the admission that this comes only from personal observation
of the experiences involved.  

The chi or prana mentioned in all regions is the basic lifeforce all
have.  It is active in all people.  The kundalini is a mechanism further
down the line from this.  it is more intense, more driven.  But in the
end it is chi, or prana.  In meditation, chi is observable and can be
felt and watched through practice, but this is not true full kundalini
activity.

Maybe this is a better way to say it.  I think the kundalini is active
in all to some extent, but when it becomes fully aroused it is a wholly
different and more powerful experience. (and our birthright!)

My own experiences say this - I can feel and watch the energy (tingle
and warm).  But there have been a few supreme moments  when a pure
white  energy has shot up my spine into my head my body became 'etheric'
and I stopped breathing.  So my experiences have been 'the kundalini
awakening' not a full kundalini awakening.

thank you for listening to my patter!

Bye from Veda002!



-
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center

I have to agree with windows, Kundalini is supposedly dorment within us
upon birth. Guru's can awaken the Kundalini and teach one how to control
it or at least deal with it through Shakti-Pat initiation, though this is
not the only way to awaken the Kundalini. Sometimes being around others
who have had their's awakened is enough to get one interested. My friend
studies and practices Chi and has had his Kundalini awakened through our
mutual Guru during a Shakti Pat initiation. He said that the Shakti is far
stronger or more powerful than the Chi. I find the clensing process of
Kundalini awkening to be tough, but support from others and meditation as
well as the knowledge that human beings have a control over how fast they
choose to go forward is a comfort. I also think that many other religions,
sciences, and philosophies and even poets have a strong corelation with
the Kundalini. Also mythology.

Sincerely,
Mark



Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 
From: Sandrak 
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

Ramain,
where can i get a copy of your book?
the one on the holy spirit and k?



Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: Paco 
Subject: re: ((experience(Juliet)) && say_hi)

Howdy to anybody out there...
	Read Juliet's response about that cool experience post...
Bladerunner is rad.  Did you ever read The Hinterlands by William
Gibson? Did you ever see that TV show Reboot? Or that Japanese 
animation movie The Ghost in the Machine? That is all radical.
In Neuromancer there is this "person" that is really personality 
on a digital storage device, a dead person that was recorded, and
it's alive and talks and thinks, but in reality it's not conscious
it's like a program, and when it stops it just is like erased.
Trippy huh? Like it knows it's there, it acts and is conscious,
yet it is just like an electronic shadow of the person, and when
it's gone there's no trace of it, like it was never really there in the
first place but when it's there it knows it's there. Is that cool?
Cyberpunk rocks!!! This all pertains to the references and subreferences
to the footnotes of the bibliography of past list posts blah blah blah
out

		---Paco


P.S. I've been busy a for a while, but I read the posts when I have time

-

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: prana & kundalini

Veda002 (?!) has written:

The chi or prana mentioned in all regions is the basic lifeforce all
have.  It is active in all people.  The kundalini is a mechanism further
down the line from this.  it is more intense, more driven.  But in the
end it is chi, or prana.  In meditation, chi is observable and can be
felt and watched through practice, but this is not true full kundalini
activity.
----------------------------

No, definitely kundalini and prana (or chi) are not one and the same
thing. Prana is corresponding to the Western concept of Energy, while
kundalini represents the process of resonance by which *a lot of energy*
will transit through one's system.
-
I think the kundalini is active
in all to some extent, but when it becomes fully aroused it is a wholly
different and more powerful experience. (and our birthright!)
-----------------------

If you consider 0.001% to be "some extent", then maybe your statement is
right. Else no; let us not make again the mistake of thinking that
having *energy* in some chakra (like when some emotions occur, for
instance) automatically means an arousing of kundalini.
-
Blessings,

--
Natha Bhaktyananda 
K=F8bmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668


-
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: The Rolf Report

Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on Rolfing.  I decided to give
it a shot, and had the first session in the middle of last week.  2nd
(of 10 total) is scheduled today.  However, the Rolfer claimed she was
able to go much deeper than usual because of my yoga practice.

First let me say that I am experimenting with this as an augmentation of
my regular hatha practice--with the idea that there would be a synergism
between the two.  So far I'm hopeful: 

The Rolfer (a woman of about 60 who studied with Ida Rolf) has
intergrated some yogic breathing into her work.  I don't think this is
part of the regular Rolfing practice.  She had me do Ujayii (aspirated
nostril) breathing throughout the whole session, focusing the breath on
the area she was working with directly.

Although the treatment is completely systemic, she focused somewhat on
my left shoulder where I have a (yoga) injury and chronic energy blocks
(manifesting as both subjective subtle and physical problems in that
area).  A lot of toxicity form (formerly) smoking seems to be locked up
in the scramble there as well.

Following the session (for the next two or three days) I noticed the
subtle symptoms (kind of sub-visual energetic patterns) that I have come
to associate with detox and energy reorganization and progression.  And
the hatha postures of my regular ashtanga series seemed to have
additional (subtle) coherence.  

I work up this morning with more right/left integration than I have ever
felt.

So, we'll see.  I think it holds promise.  The big drawback is that it's
kind of expensive.

juliet

-

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: ori^ 
Subject: Process of Resonance

I'm not sure if Natha or Veda002 wrote the following:

>Prana is corresponding to the Western concept of Energy, while 
>kundalini represents the process of resonance by which *a lot of energy* 
>will transit through one's system.

I am interested in hearing more discussion about this process of 
resonance.  Early on, I recognized that the resonance is part of
what allows us to connect to others through non-physical means.
It is the resonance which allows the free-flow of spirit to pass
through us which then acts as a catalyst for the rising of the
kundalini.

This resonance is what I believe is at play with experiences like that
reported by the person who posted last week about affecting the flow 
of kundalini in another.  And when the resonance is set up consciously
with another... whew!

I have not read anything about resonance... I know only that the 
concept flagged me down on a very deep intuitional level.  I feel
it is a very basic part of existence which is not attended to in 
much of our western culture lifestyles.  It is very subtle and
yet so dynamic.  Resonance makes the universe sing.

Random thoughts and wonderings from,
ori^


******
*              ori^                   *
*            oriATNOSPAMeskimo.com           *
* http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html *
****** 

-

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Hallmark Moment Again

So far, I have done a fairly good job of devising explanations of 
apparently psychic phenomena in terms of heightened sensitivity and 
perception. The ability to pick out 'perfect' greeting cards from a 
display rack without reading them is one phenomena that eludes my 
analytic explanations. Traditional psychiatrists call many psychic 
phenomena 'delusions of reference'. For example, a significant event 
occurs and the subject's subconscious constructs a belief 'backward in 
time' that the event was 'forseen'. I am well aware of this and that is 
why I have never reported any 'psychic-appearing' personal episode that 
is not verifiable by a witness - most often my wife Karen. If an 
episode is totally in my experience, without witnesses or possible 
observer, I always say so and also take such with a 'grain of salt' 
myself. However, those that have been witnessed, I look at more closely 
and try to see it in the perspective of possible-due-to-heightened- 
sensory-awareness. With that 'caveat', on to the Hallmark Moment Again.

We were in Pack & Save and Karen needed a birthday card for her 
brother. She turned to me and says, "Well, can you do it again?"  I 
knew she was referring to my previous episode of picking out two cards 
for different occasions and people that were unbelievably perfect. I 
told her that I don't turn this perception on and off like a faucet 
but... and reached over to the rack, pulled out a card and handed it to 
her. My brother-in-law is a 'low-motivational' kind of guy to say the 
least and after his basal body needs are met has only two interests in 
life - drinking beer (mass quantities) and watching TV. The card said 
on the front (which was hidden from view until pulled from the rack), 
"You may be another year older, but you can still engage in your two 
favorite sports." Opening the card, it read on the inside, "Just don't 
spill beer on the remote control, Happy Birthday" , and showed a 
couch-potato in a recliner watching TV, with a remote control in one 
hand and a beer in the other! I don't know if others see the 
'perfection' of this card, but Karen and I do. OK you traditionalists, 
I am at a loss for a 'rational' explanation. This makes three times now 
- are you going to say that Karen is sharing my delusion-?
-


Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

At 07:10 PM 10/27/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Ramain,
>where can i get a copy of your book?
>the one on the holy spirit and k?
>
>
Dear Ramain,

I would really like to hear about how you link together Catholicism and the
k. Would you consider sharing with us a few of your observations? Part of my
path now is to learn about the many different interpretations of the k and
to open my heart and mind to what is said.

Thanks, 
traveler



Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: "L.D. McClanahan" 
Subject: Kundalini & Energy Dimensions

The subject has been brought up comparing Kundalini with Chi and 
other labels of this form of subtle energy.  From my reading it appears 
that the Yogas refer to three separate areas or Doshas of Kapha, Vata, 
and Pitta that traverse the chest, throat, especially stomach; colon, 
hips; and small intestine, stomach.  The Yogas five elements sound too 
mythical for my comprehension (See The Yoga of Herbs). Barbara Ann 
Brennan in Hands of Light refers to three separate independent 
dimensions encompasing the auras, likely the emphasis of the Yogas; the 
Kundalini, soul seat near the heart chakra; and the hara.  Apparently 
each of these dimensions is orthogonal or independent in the statistical 
sense because auric vision must change frequencies to visualize each of 
these dimensions.
	What makes this area particularly abstruse is that the Kundalini 
energy rising from the base of the spine has three separate colors or 
energy frequencies, and if they do not rise simultaneously severe 
physical and psychological symptoms accrue.
	Further complicating the picture is the way that mystical, 
out-of-body, and Kundalini experiences are reported and seem to overlap.
Robert Monroe in Ultimate Journey reports three separate "bodies" which 
strip off during OBSs, the last may correspond with the soul seat 
frequencies reported by Barbara Ann Brennan.  The first is the physical 
body.  Each of these bodies likely corresponds to higher chakra levels, 
and/or the hara and soul seat.
	The difficulty with any more "scientific explanation" of these 
issues is the lack of instrumentation for measurement, and the best that 
we have are self reports of those with auric vision or reports of 
anamolous experiences via OBSs or NDEs.  Yet, often self reports are 
very unreliable as humans can always fit a "reason" between two 
parsdoxes of experience.
	This is a very worthy area for members of this chat list to 
explore.  Raising the Kundalini is one issue with all its access to 
subtle if not paranormal abilities.  How to conceptualize "awakening" in 
a more global, systemic, scientific, religious, energy system another.  
	The "truth" is like that Greek Goddess.  L. D.



Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Process of Resonance

ori^ wrote:
> 
> I am interested in hearing more discussion about this process of
> resonance.  Early on, I recognized that the resonance is part of
> what allows us to connect to others through non-physical means.
> It is the resonance which allows the free-flow of spirit to pass
> through us which then acts as a catalyst for the rising of the
> kundalini.

Hi, there is a lot of interesting stuff being discovered about the
'microtubule' fine structure of neurons: they are like resonant
flutes (maybe) in the sense that they can respond to and sustain
'standing waves' of acoustic/light energy and can induce this 
energy across cell boundaries.  They may also be analogous to lasers,
so the white-light shooting up the spine may be a lasing effect in
the microtubules.  They are fundamentally Quantum in
behavior, so they would also exhibit the characteristic nonlocal
behavior
of all Quantum phenomena. e.g. mind-mind transmission.

This may be a clue as to what the biology behind kundalini and 
the etheric light body etc. is.
but I am only wildly perspeculating of course.  
Check with your personal Theatrical Physicist before trying this out.

microtubule Web page:

http://www.reed.edu/~rsavage/microtubules.html

On a personal note, I have had two minor experiences of this 
contact-high phenomenon.  Once sitting next to my wife I felt a
head-rush start and focused on it without telling her anything or
moving, and she right away asked me what was going on and to stop it,
said she was getting dizzy.  It went away.

Another time my wife was on a meditation retreat a hundred miles away,
and unbeknownst to me, focused on sending me energy, and I woke up 
with an intense body rush.  We later compared times and discovered I 
was sleeping at the same time she was doing the meditation.

Anyway, just another amusing (hopefully) anecdote ...

cheers



Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Moment Again

Daniel Rusch-Fischer wrote:
>I am at a loss for a 'rational' explanation. This makes three times now
>- are you going to say that Karen is sharing my delusion-?

Hi, funny story! 
There is no rational explanation, as far as I know.   
It is all a dream! 

I would recommend the book 

-  'Synchronicity, the Bridge Between Matter and Mind'
  by F. David Peat

Also, Jung's quote in his introduction to the I Ching:

"One sleeps much better at night if one does not think too
 deeply about the theory of the I Ching."
-Carl Jung  (quoted from fallible memory)

Also Suzuki Roshi's quote in 'Zen Mind Beginner's Mind':
-
"Our way is just to ride on the train.  If we look too closely at
 the rails underneath, we get dizzy."
-Suzuki Roshi (quoted from fallible memory)

anyway, sounds like you are having fun with it!

cheers


-
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert )
Subject: Re: Process of Resonance

ori^ wrote:

> I am interested in hearing more discussion about this process of
> resonance.  Early on, I recognized that the resonance is part of
> what allows us to connect to others through non-physical means.
-
> I feel
> it is a very basic part of existence which is not attended to in
> much of our western culture lifestyles.  It is very subtle and
> yet so dynamic.  Resonance makes the universe sing.
> 
In Budhism, there is the concept of "9th consciousness."  It is through
this that all of us are connected together.  It is the reason that
sincere prayer works, clarivoyance  works, distant healing works,
mind-reading works, etc. In sanscrit it is called the
amala-consciousness. The "8th consciousness, the alaya-consciousness, is
our karmic storehouse and is similar to Carl Jung's "colective
unconscious".  The 7th is our inner thoughts and ponderings; thinking.
Our 6th is our brain reacting to the signals from our five senses. The
5th through the 1st are our five senses.

What is special about the 9th consciousness is that it is the absolutely
pure, sacred, untarnishable (by karma) universal life that exists in
each of us. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect it is the
equivalent of the Christian concept of "soul".  In Nichiren Shoshu/SGI
Buddhism, it is called Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. I believe it is much deeper
than the "resonance" you speak of, although some sort of resonance may
play a part in the phenomena described, or be another way of looking at
it.



Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Reiki
-
I already have my head pulled in like a turtle for protection - the 
last time I mentioned the word Reiki, I was cheered by some and whumped 
about the head and shoulders by others. Some beat the old drum that 
psi-phenomena are 'traps', 'trip points', attractions that should be 
ignored, avoided as they distract one from the pursuit of the 'true 
goal', of enlightenment itself. To that I say these phenomena are of 
immense value to me, they have convinced me of the validity of 
spirituality-vs-hard scientific proofs, are signposts along the way, 
have been of immense help in understanding myself and others and have 
been instrumental in help them in many ways. When I post an experience 
it also serves others who are going through the same paths, validates 
them, and lessens the anxiety caused when that which seems outre occurs 
to them. Makes all of us seem less 'alone' and may reduce the tendency 
by some to become 'preachy' and 'elitist' as they view their experience 
as GOD raising them above other men. My experience IS unique - so is 
yours - and so is hers and his. The touchstones and signposts are what 
are shared - among them are the psi-phenomena - so THERE!, spleen 
vented, I feel much better, am READY for the tirade to follow my post 
=-).
-
I have been giving Karen a type of cuddling/massage/touch since my 
K-awakening. Completely instinctual, just felt like the thing to do, 
and Karen LOVES it. Odd reactions from others, Karen's sister broke 
down and cried while watching me do it to Karen - said she never felt 
such love in her life - weird! Anyway, Karen's mom sent her a book that 
she never had the opportunity to read and Sunday she dug it out and 
handed it to me. She knew that I had given her sister a 
less-than-glowing report of my 'impressions' of the Reiki instruction 
that had taken a bite out of her wallet and thought that maybe it would 
be a good thing to actually know something about it that was in print 
rather than just 'in ether'. Said she recalled that a chapter mentioned 
Reiki specifically. I took the book located the chapter about Reiki and 
turn to the first set of illustrations (hand positions for Reiki 
healing at the chakra centers). Without saying a word, I turned the 
book to Karen and asked if the illustrations looked familiar. She 
simply looked at them and said, "That's exactly what you have been 
doing to me these last months." I was a little disappointed by her lack 
of surprise and asked her why she wasn't. She just said, "I think I am 
getting used to this stuff, after the 'Exorcist-Linda Blair' episode 
this morning, I don't think ANYTHING will surprise me again!" She was 
right, though, the entire set of Reiki positions illustrated were 
exactly those I had been using instinctually. As an interesting aside, 
I took her to the retinologist on Friday and he was surprised and 
delighted to report that her diabetic retinopathy AND vision have 
improved measureably since her last visit - not unheard-of, but not 
very common either as Diabetic Retinopathy is a degenerative disorder - 
we will see what happens.


-
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Natha's challenge (was prana & k)

Natha Bhaktyananda wrote:
> 
> If you consider 0.001% to be "some extent", then maybe your statement > is
> right. Else no; let us not make again the mistake of thinking that
> having *energy* in some chakra (like when some emotions occur, for
> instance) automatically means an arousing of kundalini.

Maybe it's time for us to begin to newly quantify, to develop (modern?)
terms.  After all, never in history has there been an opportunity for
this kind of global dialogue about such a (normally sequestered)
subject.

I would like to challenge the list generally--and Nathagi specifically--
to try and articulate some guidelines so that confusion is at least
diminshed--and so people know when what they are experiencing is
actually kundalini.  

Can we do it???

Maybe we could evolve a FAQ (if only Richard was going to keep the list
going)...

Juliet


-
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: Kundalini & Energy Dimensions

L.D. McClanahan wrote:
> 
> Apparently
> each of these dimensions is orthogonal or independent in the > statistical
> sense because auric vision must change frequencies to visualize each > of
> these dimensions.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but it sounds similar
to what I get:  I get (at least) three different "levels" of body
scan--one kind of like a blueprint or x-ray, one which is streams of
"energy" and one which is in symbolic, picture language which maps
onto/correlates with the body in a more abstract way (body movement can
influence composition of image)... I shift focus similar to the way one
might focus on one voice or another in a group of people speaking
simultaneously.  Does this correspond to other's experience here?  
-
[big snip>

> we have are self reports of those with auric vision or reports of
> anamolous experiences via OBSs or NDEs.  Yet, often self reports are
> very unreliable as humans can always fit a "reason" between two
> parsdoxes of experience.
>         This is a very worthy area for members of this chat list to
> explore.  Raising the Kundalini is one issue with all its access to
> subtle if not paranormal abilities.  How to conceptualize "awakening" > in
> a more global, systemic, scientific, religious, energy system another.

Here, here! Please see "Natha's Challange"

> The "truth" is like that Greek Goddess.  L. D.

What Greek Goddess was that, exactly?  Must have been a concubine of
Hermes/Mercury at any rate... :-)

Juliet
-


Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Coincidence!!??  I think not! (was: Hallmark Moment Again)

Peter Norton wrote:
> 
> I would recommend the book
> 
>   'Synchronicity, the Bridge Between Matter and Mind'
>   by F. David Peat
>   (etc.)

Or, for those of us too lazy to get books...

http://www.disinfo.com/CC/newsci/CC_newsci_23.html

The 2nd one (Michael Talbot) is especially great!