'kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 199 

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: David Mitchell 
Subject: Re: open heart

At 07:57 AM CDT 10/18/1996 -0400, you wrote:

snip
>
>For what it's worth to you, I have learned for MYSELF, that if I cannot open
>my heart in safety in one place, I cannot do it in others either.  For there
>is an "inner" unsafety feeling which attracts daggers and flames to itself
>simply because of the inner core belief.  I have learned to work with my own
>issues of nonsafety & nonsecurity, gradually changing the beliefs to a
>knowing that I AM SAFE & SECURE EVERYWHERE, 
NO MATTER WHERE THAT BE. And
>even now when I get attacked or flamed, I 'feel' it less & less as hurt, and
>more & more as loving compassion for that person's unawareness.
>
Wow, did that paragraph ever touch a responsive chord in me! Working on
feeling secure in myself is something I have been having to do for some time
now. As I progress in this experience, I find it becomes easier and
easier.....most of the time. I have had a tendency to open my heart without
that feeling of security, deliberately (subconsciously) leaving myself
vulnerable to attack and then felt surprised and hurt when the (expected)
attack came. Since I don't appear able to "not" open my heart, I am working
hard to feel safe and secure with myself. The goal, for me, is to get the
feeling that you place in caps.

>So it is working for me to CREATE safety & security first INSIDE, so that it
>will be reflected on the outside.  Am I done yet?  Heck, no!  But I can
>honestly say that when I share from my heart and it is completely open, I
>vary rarely get attack responses.  And when I do, I know it is time to work
>with that inner me who's not feeling safe, who feels vulnerable, who needs
>love & support.  I get more & more powerful in SELF (spiritual, not ego)
>everyday.  This stuff is amazing!

Yes, it truly is amazing. Thank you for your post. It was eye-opening for me
and I needed it this morning.

In peace,
David
 ----- ----- ----- -----
An analog man trapped in a digital world
David Mitchell
dmitchelATNOSPAMcjnetworks.com

-

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: open heart

Yes you are right of course. And I have learned this too about internal
safety. Well said!

Re: a new list, I am talking about moving toward something, not running
away. I seek a warmth, a common light...to move towards, an environment
where we all have dignity, we are all sages and wisepeople, all
equals....tej said it very nicely....

Where we can focus on k and not all of this religious indoctrination...it it
simply off the topic to me; the k, just the k, and each of us....a moving
toward this type of light, not a running away.

With more of a heart chakra vibration.

I can stay here for the other stuff-- that is, if Richard is willing to keep
this list going. Then count me in here too. I love this list, too. All of
it. Just wanting to add on, coming from a place deep in my heart that knows
it's time to do so.

Best, traveler



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Kabalah Experiment]


Larry Newman (Gloria) wrote:
> 
> >Juliet,
> Hi, quite an experience I not that out of the ordinary when folks get
> involved with things that are not brought to them by Divine Will. The
> different between opening to divine will and working through faith and
> trust in the Holy Spirit as the teacher, and trying or experimenting 
> on your own ... is day and night. 



>This is simply not the way of love and faith.



Actually, skeptical experimentation has a long and very respectable
tradition--and is, I believe, very highly regarded. The path of the
skeptical intellect, for example, is not generally regarded (in
traditional texts, anyway) as less "holy" than the (bhakti) path of the
heart ("love and faith")--on the contrary, it is even particulary
admired as being more difficult and requiring more discipline.

I believe I just recently read a reference to this in Feuerstein's great
ecclectic book on yoga... I'll try to find it for you in the next day or
so and post an excerpt.

It's good to remember that the bhakti path (though largely represented
on this list, it seems) is not the only one--there are, in fact several
different and quite distinct traditional approaches--none more "holy"
than the other.

With suffering often comes great education--

It's also good to remember that none of us are authorities.

J.
-


Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert )
Subject: Domestic Violence/K?

Being a volenteer advocate for victums of child abuse and domestic violence,
I am concerned with issues related to these fields.  It occurs to me, after
reading many of the k-list posts, that alot of the insecurity, flaming, and
emotions expressed are symptomatic of persons who have been victums of
domestic (or other) violence in their lives.  Is it possible that the K
experience is somehow related? - perhaps as a defense mechanism?- or maybe
was triggered by the violence?  This is a very sensitive issue with some
(i.e., admitting to being a victum or perpetrator), but if you could, I
would like your thoughts on this.
--Bob



-
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: P.S. Re: Kabalah Experiment

Juliet wrote:
> 
> It's also good to remember that none of us are authorities.
> 
> J.
-
Oh. Maybe I should have said: "None of us are *supreme* authorities..."

J.



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Re: List Noise Figure and the Light
-

Joe,

They say that you see in those around you, what is in yourself.
As your frequency rises, so will the frequency in the new things you
discover.
And soon you will find old things gone.
The tears of gods rain brings about joy and color afterwards.  And sometimes
a rainbow during.
May everyone's heart hold a rainbow, during the tears that fall.

Peace and Light,
John Halonen



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Re: Inner Dialogue
-

To try and keep the mind silent means the mind is still active.
If you feel your body movements and watch your mind(be aware of what you are
doing)
Slowly you will become aware of your being.
This awareness is pure meditation.
This awareness quiets the mind.

Peace and Light,
John Halonen

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Subject: Inner Dialogue

Patanjali wrote:
"Yogas chitta vritti nirodha" that means (sorry for my english :) "Yoga is
stopping (arresting) the modification of the mind" (Stop thinking!)

Do you keep your mind in silence only in meditation, or you try to keep it
in silence all the time?

Massimo.
-------- REPLY, End of original message --------



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: "Your friend at:" 
Subject: Re: Domestic Violence/K?
-
Dear Bob, 

	Nature has a funny way of getting around sometimes.  There is the
story of one very evil man who had a son.  This man was so evil that
government authorities wanted to have the child aborted for fear he would
be just like his father.  The sages, however, could recognize that his son
would actually be a great devotee saint.  Later the evil man tried to
murder his son.  His son, however, was protected by the divine potency.
This was then the evil man's demise.  Supernatural forces destroyed him.  
I brought this up because you mention the kundalini awakened
somehow as a result of the abuse.  


Sincerely,

Christopher

*************************
"The person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady
-               in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
                        Bhagavad gita as it is 2.15

*************************

On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Dorman, Robert wrote:

> Being a volenteer advocate for victums of child abuse and domestic violence,
> I am concerned with issues related to these fields.  It occurs to me, after
> reading many of the k-list posts, that alot of the insecurity, flaming, and
> emotions expressed are symptomatic of persons who have been victums of
> domestic (or other) violence in their lives.  Is it possible that the K
> experience is somehow related? - perhaps as a defense mechanism?- or maybe
> was triggered by the violence?  This is a very sensitive issue with some
> (i.e., admitting to being a victum or perpetrator), but if you could, I
> would like your thoughts on this.
> --Bob
> 
> 

-

Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: lee choo 
Subject: Bodily vibrations related to kundalini?

Novice seeker subscribed to K-list to find out about kundalini.  My question:

After 2 years of dreamwork (LD, OBE), I have recently (3 months ago) 
started to do regular meditation and am experiencing mild (mild compared 
to OBE-vibrations, and of a different sensation) vibrations when I get 
deep into the meditations.

I have asked various other sources about these vibrations and have 
received no definitive answer.  (Perhaps there are no definitive answers 
in the spiritual paths?)  I am posting in this list to ask if these 
vibrations may be related to kundalini?

More on the vibrations:  These vibrations begin in no specific part of 
the body; sometimes starting in the chest, or legs, or arms, or pelvis, 
or anywhere.  Earlier on, the vibrations used to travel up to the head 
and burst into a pool of light behind my closed eyelids.  But lately it 
hasn't done so--or at least not in such a dramatic way (maybe I'm getting 
accustomed to the light-pool effect?).  Earlier on, vibrations used to 
last only a couple of seconds.  Now I can sustain it longer and am 
beginning to enjoy the sensations.
   
For 3 months now, have been wondering about the nature of the 
vibrations.  Perhaps someone on this list can give me some feedback on 
it; has it something or nothing to do with kundalini?  Any response will 
be very much appreciated.

(**IMPORTANT NOTE: Whether or not you will be discussing this on the mail 
list, PLEASE EMAIL ME DIRECTLY (carbon-copy or whatever)  TO: 
lee.chooATNOSPAMcsun.edu--because I have to unsubscribe immediately.  I 
subscribed yesterday and by this morning have received 20 messages.  I 
use my email account for work and it is inappropriate to handle that 
many personal messages on the account on a daily basis.  Perhaps I will 
subscribe again when I get my own personal account.)

Thanks for the patience of everyone on the list for reading this email.

Seeker.



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Opinions on Coffee and K?

hi all, someone mentioned something about cutting out coffee after their
KA, and that got me thinking, as a neophyte i am wondering if there
is some 'conventional wisdom' about this in the K community?

i.e. can coffee inhibit K, or exacerbate negative symptoms like
headaches during K?

It seems from my reading of Gopi Krishna and some Tibetan and Taoist
stories that diet, excercise, and lifestyle are very important to
developing 'healthy' K.  Is this generally agreed among K'ers?
I am thinking about Gopi Krishna's dietary advice to eat small 
portions frequently.  

my own limited experience of K four years ago involved a feeling of
intense blood pounding in my left temple, it felt like my head was 
going to explode. Prior to this i had stopped drinking coffee for about
5
months, but gradually went back on it after the K symptoms faded.

I have since read that blood pressure can skyrocket
during K.  Plus i heard from my sister who is a nurse, 
that coffee affects the cerebral blood pressure
a lot, which is why i get headaches on the weekends when i am not
drinking coffee, and why aspirin often has caffeine in it, since 
headaches are often due to caffeine withdrawal.

I also seem to notice, when I am feeling slightly K sensitive, 
that the mode of awareness that coffee accentuates is kind of 
'negative' relative to K, though it does help for the everyday 
busywork of jobs etc.  And I wonder if there is something real 
behind this feeling?

If coffee is not advised, is tea ok?  Is it more than just the 
caffeine in the coffee?

thanks for any advice

cheers


-
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: [[[[[Predestined Free Will

I have 'put this question out there'. It and the answer follows.
Q. Which describes the past/present/future: 1. Everything is 
preordained and will happen according to a predestined plan. or 2. 
Everything is the result of a universal physical clockwork set in 
motion that is altered by the action of free will.
-
A. All physical events that are possibilities exist as one universal 
illusion - past/present/future are one. This is the mirror in which the 
mind views and perceives itself in 'reality.' Not all that is 
conceivable is possible. The multidimensional framework of 'reality' is 
supported by the 'structure' of what is NOT possible. All possibilities 
for you cannot exist either as the existence of one of your 
possibilities depends on the existence and/or nonexistence of all other 
sentient beings' possibilities. Within this 'framework' moves the 
consciousness which, by exercising free will, selects from the myriad 
predestinations that have and always will exist and yet have no 
existence of themselves without perception of the mirrored self and all 
other selves. All is determined by predestined free will as perceived 
by the self contemplating the illusion of reality and itself as 
separate; as ego.

YEOW!!!, my head hurts!!! Next time I am going to ask simple questions! 
This 'answer' sounds like gibberish and profound wisdom simultanously. 
How can that be - it has the look and feel of Jabberwocky. Maybe that 
is it - a koan, the realization behind the illogical. My head still 
hurts! It feels like when you try to follow all four parts of a Bach 
partita - you follow one part, OK; you pick up the second part, great; 
you start to listen to the third and BINGO you have lost perception of 
the first part AND at the same time, on a non-intellectual level you 
are STILL aware that there ARE four parts! Does that make sense to 
anyone? Help - I need some aspirin and grounding. The hair on the top 
of my head feels like there should be crop circles developing!

Love and LAUGHING LIGHT-) my scalp tickles!
DAN-RF
-


Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: Bodily vibrations related to kundalini?

You wrote:  am experiencing mild vibrations when I get deep into the 
meditations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lee,
I have been intending to bring this up and your post reminded me of it. 
First, let me tell you that I had a spontaneous kundalini-awakening 
(K-A) about 4-months ago. It happened without apparent provocation - I 
was doing no meditation, yoga or any other spiritual practice. So, I 
have no 'educated' basis for what follows. I am only 'flying by the 
seat of my pants' so to speak and can only give my personal experience 
without the benefit of guru or guidance (I hope others will do that for 
you and maybe will give you the terms in which to relate).

>From the K-A I had powerful vibrations (there were physical tremors at 
the same time). However, within, the vibrations were perceived also on 
a mental level. I still get them with meditation and often with 
psychic-type events.

It has occurred to me since then that the Tibetan Gyoto (spelling?) 
monks that I saw chanting on a Christmas special once were duplicating 
with their unison voices that exact vibration that I felt within me - I 
intend to get a CD of their chants and I bet dollars-to-donuts that 
simply hearing that sound will send me into DEEP meditative space. I 
have had a similar occurrence on hearing the vibration of a jet engine.

Love and LAUGHING LIGHT-D
DAN-RF (Rumbling Frequencies)



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: Opinions on Coffee and K?
-
Peter Norton wrote:
> 
> hi all, someone mentioned something about cutting out coffee after 
> their KA, and that got me thinking...

By coincidence, I just wrote a post to someone here suggesting that they
might stay away from all central nervous system stimulants, including
coffee and tea, if they were going to experiment with ritual.

The reason I brought it up is that I think central nervous system
stimulants help create a physiological environment in which an already
unruly kundalini will be more likely to short circuit...(after all,
kundalini and the nervous system *are* intimately *intertwined* ;-)) 

On the other hand, I recently read that some yogis often regularly drink
coffee and tea before their practice for precisely that same reason:
because it builds "tapas" (heat) and intensifies the practice which
follows... 

I don't know if this relates to the other post you read, but this is
part of it, I suspect--my $.02.

Juliet



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: Opinions on Coffee and K?
-
Peter Norton wrote: cutting out coffee after their KA,
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Peter,
Doing any origami yet? About the idea of stimulants. There are a bunch 
of erudite posts on their way. In the meantime here is my 'seat of the 
pants' homespun spin on that. You will recall that tea is not native to 
China and Japan and that it was introduced originally as an aid to 
meditation. That the Japanese legend of its origin was that a monk fell 
asleep during meditation and was so enraged by his weakness that he 
tore his own eyelids off, casting them to the ground, and that they 
sprang up as tea plants. Enough with the mythological, I have profound 
K-experiences whether I am drinking coffee, tea as well as when I am 
not. As a matter of fact, I take dexedrine daily without noticing any 
variation in the experience. Periodically, I stop taking the dexedrine 
for a couple of weeks and still note no difference. Some days the K is 
alive and romping wildly, other days it is laid-back and rather 
passive, and some days it seems to be absent (that used to worry me 
until I found that it always comes back and having it absent for a 
couple of days is like a minivacation). This is not a judgment, rather 
an observation; I think we tend to credit some of our aches & pains to 
the K when they may have happened anyway.

Love and LAUGHING LIGHT-)
(especially, the the K is ROMPING on my funny bone.)
DAN-RF (Rollicking Fun!)



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: Opinions on Coffee and K?

Daniel Rusch-Fischer wrote:
> 
> Doing any origami yet? About the idea of stimulants. 



> I take dexedrine daily without noticing any variation in the 
> experience. Periodically, I stop taking the dexedrine
> for a couple of weeks and still note no difference. 

Dude!  Please watch it.  This can be really dangerous when mixed with
occult/Kundalini.  Seriously.  It creeps up.

Also: Origami???  I was gone a couple of weeks.  Guess I missed some
real juicey stuff, judging from the aftermath.  And now this!  

Juliet
-


Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert )
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

>.  I have 
>started taking the Teacher's Training course about 4 weeks ago, 
>very interesting. .....
> Has anyone taken the teacher's training course out there?
>
>
What teacher's training course?
--Bob




Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: Domestic Violence/K?

Kenneth Ring suggests, insightfully I think, that people who were 
abused as children are more subject to altered states of awareness of 
all kinds because they had to learn how to leave their bodies in order 
to survive.  I was not abused at all as a child, but I am quite hard of 
hearing which may have accomplished a similar end.  Holly.


-

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: New

camint wrote:
> 
> Dear interested,
> 
> My name is Andrew, I am 23 years old and have finally found a net
> listserver where I can learn more about Kundalini. While also sharing my
> experiences.
> 
> I will keep this brief. But what I say and what I will always say is the
> truth. But this would already be known because we have all been touched
> in some way by the Serpent.
> 
> My first experience with Kundilini was at the age of 5. By the age of 16
> I had read enough books about this Serpent to consider myself ready for
> experimentation. Well this was not the case, I soon learnt that I
> thought I was ready to experiment with the most dangerous force in
> existance. So I soon woke up out of my dream and decided that
> experimentation was not such a good idea.
> 
> To cut a long story short, I did experiment and I now have cleansed 5 of
> the eight Shakra's, only my third eye to finish and then the most
> important of all.  I have had one experience where this energy gave me a
> taste of her power. It was that intense I knew nothing but at the same
> time I knew everything. I am going by feelings here, but if I died at
> that point I would have known what I had finally reached the goal that
> all humans must take, and fear was never nearby.
> 
HI, Welcome to the list, my homepage is http:www.inetworld.com/lodpress/ 

Check it out and then we can talk. Gloria



Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 
From: ori^ 
Subject: Dexedrine and K

Daniel Rusch-Fischer wrote:
> I take dexedrine daily without noticing any variation in the  
> experience. Periodically, I stop taking the dexedrine
> for a couple of weeks and still note no difference. 

I am curious.  Why would you be taking dexedrine?
It seems to me the kundalini experience would be more than
enough to draw on, without artificially stimulating the
body more.

How is it possible to ascertain the difference between the
effects of the drug and the effects of the natural awakening?

External rather than internal...
Is it an illusion?

Are other drugs of use?
Does anyone continue to smoke marijuana?
I wonder what effect that has.

wondering,
ori^


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