kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 193 

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Follow up & question about death

Holly,

Several friends of mine have lost their moms recently and all think the
world of a book entitled "Who Dies?".  It is full of the kind of information
you ask about apparently. The author is Stephen Levine.



At 02:19 PM 10/13/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Some weeks ago, after posing the question to this list, I decided to 
>share with my mom (a gentle skeptic) the "visions" I was getting about 
>her approaching death.  She was loving and grateful and I believe 
>talking at that time helped us both last week when she died.  Her death 
>was extremely peaceful.  She died at home with my dad and myself 
>holding her, encouraging her to feel loved and let go.  Sitting with 
>her for the hour or so afterwards was the most tranquil time I have 
>ever experienced.
>
>Now the question.  My mom didn't suffer much, thank god (and modern 
>pharmacology), but several hours before she died her hands and feet got 
>boiling hot to the touch -- not her head, like a fever, but more like a 
>last rush before she began to die.  I've seen people (and animals) 
>suddenly get "well" before they die but nothing like this.  I'm 
>wondering whether this has something to do with how the life-force 
>inhabits our bodies.  Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks and love to all,
>
>Holly
>
>
>
-


Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: leaving the list

Dan,

My Friend. I enjoy your humor and wisdom. Not all are gone. I support
whatever move you decide, but remember the friends, the support, and the
goodness that exists here and elsewhere. This forum is bound to have
differences of opinion and mood swings and discussions that may not have a
lot to dowith Kundalini, but everyday things change and there are always
new people joining and adding. Keeping the forum reasonably open is the
strength of a list like this. I believe in free speach and expression so
long as no one is physically, hurt, mentally, emotionally, spiritually,
abused, or killed. I do not see that here. I see people communicating. I
learn and other do to. This is a great list, whether you decide to stayor
go, do not forget the list and do not be a stranger. May you alwways have
hope, love, and light in your life.

Sita Ram, 
Mark



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: FlarityjATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Question concerning energy creatures on this list (DNFEC)
-
I belong to several unmoderated usenet groups who have a well indoctrinated
policy concerning energy creatures on the group.  Apparently, this group does
not observe this standard internet procedure  (We chant it like a
Mantra--DNFEC, DNFEC).  Is this because you are using energy creatures as a
tool for further advancement?  If so, you may want to think again about the
operating motivation for energy creatures.

It would be pleasingly ironic if you were unaware of the ubiquitous presence
of these poor souls on the internet who can be banished with two keystokes as
soon as they are identified.

Thank you all for the wonderful responses to my question concerning "looking
into people".  I have been given much to think about and believe this usenet
group is essential.

Joe Flarity  



-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Books. Books?

One of the best things about this list for me has been the great book
recommendations.  I am into: 
        The Teachings of Don Carlos by Victor Sanchez 
right now and just finished:
         A Farther Shore by Yvonne Kasen.   
-
I would not have known about either of these books, nor would I have looked
very deeply into them, if they had not been  strongly recommended here.
They are both very worthwhile and quite practical.

Does anyone else have any great books to recommend?  This would make a MUCH
better topic than some we have been on lately, don't you think?
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling

-

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 
From: "PHUOC NGUYEN" 
Subject: RE: Follow up & question about death

From: 	Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.
Sent: 	Sunday, October 13, 1996 3:19 PM
To: 	kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
Subject: 	Follow up & question about death
[...]
Now the question.  My mom didn't suffer much, thank god (and modern 
pharmacology), but several hours before she died her hands and feet got 
boiling hot to the touch -- not her head, like a fever, but more like a 
last rush before she began to die.  I've seen people (and animals) 
suddenly get "well" before they die but nothing like this.  I'm 
wondering whether this has something to do with how the life-force 
inhabits our bodies.  Any thoughts?
[...]
-----
When the breath stop, the soul remains in the body for a while.
At the latest thought (good or bad) stop: The soul will leave the body. We can 
know where do S/He goes in the next incarnation by the final hot spot located 
on the body.

For the good  to the very bad latest thought, we have:
1. The final hot spot is located a little bit higher on the forehead (between 
the line of hair) or exactly at the acupuncture point Shenting (Vietnamese: 
Tha^ATNOSPAMn DiATNOSPAMnh): S/He will go to the Pure Land of Buddha or heaven.
2. Right on the forehead: S/He will be in the world of angels without to be a 
female or a male.
3. Right on the neck: S/He will be a leader in a group of Human being or some 
kind of  male or female angels.
4. Right on the chess: S/He will be born as a Human being.
5. On the plexus solar (stomach): S/He will be a Titan.
6. On the navel: S/he will be an Asura (a kind of hungry devil: Because of the 
restriction of their neck they can not eat, so they are always hungry).
7. Between the navel and the pubic hair: S/He will be a demon or sad ghost.
8. Down to the thigh: Animal kind
9. At the knee: S/He will go to the hell.
10. At the big toe: S/He will be at the lower part of the hell.
Those are for normal people.

Specially:
With other helpful people sometime their thought ended up at the question: How 
to be more helpful?
Now we have a symmetric latter hot spot:
1. Boddhisatva: Those hot spots are located in the temple. They will rest for 
a while at Tosuda's heavenly palace and will be return to be more helpful.
2. The healer deity: hot at the hands and the feet.
3. The solace deity: Hot on both chess.

That all I know, hope you enjoy and good luck for your Mom :-) :-) :-)

---phuoc nguyen :-) thanks again for asking. 



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Fwd:

> 
Subject: more conflict

HI To all,

	It seems that we are destined to sink into lower frequencies for now,
however, if everyone on the list can neutralize this negative energy by
taking threir thoughts and emotions out of it. We will watch it return
to center. As long as there are thoughts charged by emotions in conflict
with belief systems, there will certainly be verbal war. If these people
were in the same room it might have even escalated to a confrontation.
So we see that the prospect of true peace and love for each other has a
ways to go, but we don't have to over react.

 Action/reaction this is the name of the illusion of life, detachment
...observes ... and simply lets it float by, just as you would do in
meditation when a negative thought or emotion floated to the surface. In
spite of the projections, etc., this is life. Can we not acknowledge its
existence as illusion and let it go. 

So many people have said use the delete button, that is one way to deal
with it, the other is to use self discipline and overcome the temptation
to let your energies be used to create more discord. Two negatives does
not make a positive, it isn't realistic to think that we can talk back
and forth for months or years, and not have some kind of flare up
manifest. The true test is how we deal with it ... this is the real
fruit of the list consciousness. Loving those who disagree or get caught
up in negative energy is the only real solution that will manifest
fruit. Even if it isn't obvious at first, I guarantee the fruit is there
and it will show eventually. Isn't this why we are here? Can we forgive,
forget, and let it all go. Gloria  
>



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: apology
-
i have offended someone on the list unintentionally. i am VERY VERY sorry.
i do not like offending people and have never done that on purpose.

i have also been upset by alot of the flaming going on here, and now that
i've upset someone else, i feel like i'd like to leave the list. it was
once a joyful and friendly place.

again, i'm very sorry if i've offended anyone.

Lia



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Ronald Paniagua 
Subject: http://members.aol.com/geistwesen/zukunft

I AM ANTARIS RA MELCHIZEDEK and I like that all of you know a new
page (go to english version) from Karin Nagel, she is receiving many
messages, which are very important for our near future, our ascencion
and may be also for our kundalini-developement (read "between" the 
lines!
Love simple IS,
Antaris Ra Melchichizedek
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Ronald Paniagua 
Subject: re: homepage of Karin Nagel

I AM ANTARIS RA MELCHIZEDEK, I just mentioned that new homepage of 
Karin Nagel:
http://members.aol.com/geistwesen/zukunft
if you want to answer her and send her an e-mail, use:
Geistchen1ATNOSPAMaol.com
between Geistchen and the ATNOSPAM this is a one 1, not a l like und the
kundalini-list, you see how similar is one and 1 list, this has also
a sexual meaning ......
Antaris loves you!
limiteATNOSPAMinonet.com.py



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: help :)

Lia, you wrote:

>if you got my lastest post to the K list (Re: asanas and celibacy) coudl
>you email it to me? I offended someone with it and i can't remember what i
>said. i never meant to offended anyone. that person
>doesn't want to me to email them personally so i can't apologize directly
>so i sent an apology to the list.

First of all, I am a bit angry that this person was allowed to vent anger at
you, but closed the door to communication with you personally.  How childish.
- It's like egging somebody's house at Halloween and running, leaving the
people who own the house to clean up the mess that was left.  Again, very,
very childish and COWARDLY.  If it were me, I would email them anyway - they
didn't honor YOU, did they?  There!  I feel better!  Enough of my little
outburst! :) :) :)  (The paradoxes of Love & Anger - how they still amaze &
delight me!)

> i feel like i've been
>psychically attacked. i don't know what to do.

You have been, Lia.  That is why you feel the way that you do.  I have been
through this too - getting attacked for good intentions.  And that's why you
feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you, because you were being
the nice, sweet person that you are, and this arrow came out of nowhere.
 Yep, I've been there.  But it's given me a lot of practice at remaining at
center, or else bringing myself back to it.  Please don't sign off the list
yet.  Do some work with yourself, give yourself some healing time, and you'll
be back, fresh as a daisy!

I remember reading your post, but it wasn't speaking to me personally, ya
know?  So I quickly went on to the next one.  But, I have never read anything
from you that felt offensive.  You're a sweety pie!  But you know what I have
learned?  That no matter what intentions I put into what I write, no matter
how much love, there is the potential for someone to be in a "bad place"
emotionally, and my words could trigger old stuff for them.  And what they
read is TOTALLY different than what I wrote and the thoughts behind what I
wrote.  I have NO control over that.  I realize now that I have been used in
such a way to promote healing of those issues that got triggered for that
person; to be a catalyst for the release of old crap.  When I saw that, I
felt pretty darn important!
-
Right now, I feel that you need to hold & cuddle the part of you that is in
deep pain - do you have a favorite teddy bear, doll, etc?  It's easier for me
to use something "physical" so that I have a kinesthetic "feel" as well as
emotional feel - then I can also caress, pet, etc. Anyway, that part of you
doesn't feel loved & supported right now - she needs you to hear her pain,
hold her, support her, and most of all LOVE her to give her back the energy
that was sucked psychically.

The harder part is opening your heart and loving the person who attacked you.
- That person obviously was in pain too - there would have been no need to
attack if there wasn't some form of fear involved.  It is my suggestion that
when you are feeling a bit stronger, that you expand your heart out, enfold
this person into your heart, so that he/she can ALSO feel supported & loved.
 Love dissolves anger, fear, or anything else not of itself, sometimes not
instantly, but with persistence, LOVE ALWAYS PREVAILS.

You can love this person, and STILL be angry at his/her behavior.  I'm NOT
saying that you have to agree with this person in order to love him/her.  You
can be in both places at the same time!  (You know - like with Jarrod, your
beautiful baby boy.  You sometimes may get very angry at him, but you love
him to pieces at the same time.)  So let your anger move through, and also
let your love expand to include the attacker.  It works.  You'll be peaceful
again in no time, and when it happens again, you'll get through it much
faster - pretty soon, you'll be a pro!

I hope you don't mind, but my feeling dictates that I send this to the list
as well as you personally (in case you've signed off already, I'll send it to
both).  As you know, there are many people dealing with similar issues on the
list, and I may be able to help one or two through you (see what a wonderful
little channel you are?! ;-).

Much love & big bear hugs, Lia!  Barb  ATNOSPAM--}}--}}--



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Ciao!

In a message dated 96-10-13 09:41:19 EDT, you write:

>You're right, of course. I just felt that Brent was asking for advice
>from somebody other than another novice... So I didn't feel qualified to
>answer... 

Jari,

Thanks for not taking what I said defensively!  That's very refreshing, right
now especially!
-
May I also say that YOU are an EXPERT in what works FOR YOU, therefore you
ARE qualified to answer.  I don't follow any one method.  I read, I meditate,
I ask my guides, etc.  Then I roll it all up into some semblance of order
that works for ME.  I am well along the path, so I can say with absolute
authority that there is NO absolute authority but yourself.  And when you
have something that works for you, chances are that there are a few people on
the list whom it would work for too.  No, not everybody, but if you reach
just a few, they can tell a few, and then they can tell a few more; you know,
multi-level marketing!  The masses don't have to agree with you in order that
you be "right."  As long as you are coming from YOUR truth, you ARE TRULY
helping - the numbers matter not!

Peace, oh wise one! ;)     Barb ATNOSPAM--}}--}}--



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: mistress
-
Dear Mistress
applauds to you and the answer you gave Dave. 
Love in peace....Kathleen



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Natasha Avon 
Subject:  Dave & John -Reply
-
>>> Christopher Williams  10/13/96
03:11pm >>>
In message ,
LIShamanATNOSPAMaol.com writes
>
>>"Go and sin no more."
>>Sin shouldn't be flaunted, paraded, or even preached.
>>
>Dave -
->
>Are you calling Jesus a sinner?  I find it very funny that Jesus
demonstrated
>to mankind  >
>Sincerely,
>
>John
>

>What has this got to do with K and can't Dave and John sort out their
>differences without mailing the rest of the group?


Christopher Williams  

Christopher, thank you very much. I would like to learn more about my K,
find out if it's K in the first place without having to sift through 70+
electronic debates.

Merry meet merry part
-
Natasha Avon



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 
From: "PHUOC NGUYEN" 
Subject: Kundalini (Vienamese way) 7

Keep your sparkling subject for a while to get it stronger and stronger.
Now change the subject to a standing ellipse () with the same sparkling yellow 
light and big like your thumb nail.
By the central of this ellipse, at a spot of 1/7 high from the below, start to 
draw a thin ( as your thinner hair)  pure red line.

Right away, on your body you can feel this warm (for this time) power rising 
from your sacrum coccyx. Normally, the force rises up very slowly because of 
the good preparation of mind. You can hear the click click when this power 
goes up and straightens your spinal column.

For the first time it scares me a bit when I hear this noise :->

In your "standing ellipse" () you can see at the 1/7 spot, the red line become 
bigger as a small red ball (diameter: 0.5 mm). Like a thermometer, you 'll see 
the red line continous to rise. When it reach the second chakra you can hear a 
bigger click in your spinal column and so forth…

Now  you can count only six (6) red balls on this red line. Keep this vision 
as long as possible (some of my friends, in Viet Nam, can keep it for one 
whole week).
-
After this experience, you can feel your voice become louder and beautiful. 
Your body have a good feeling of heat (warm and comfortable). Your 
concentration is more accurate and easy. Specially your eye become shiny of 
happiness and full of spiritual.
(Coming up: some tip for the Kundalini experience)
   ^    ^
( 0 Y 0 )
     ||         Nguyen Phuoc
  \,,,,,/
-


Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 
From: "PHUOC NGUYEN" 
Subject: a good book

Autobiography of a yogi  author: Paramahansa Yogananda
you will know the effect of Kundalini on the way of Kriya yoga, a wonderful 
definition of god, you can meet those great guru with all their good behaviors 
...



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: apology

Lia,

There have been many times that I have wished to leave the list. Being on
this list is a pretty intense experience. All this k!!! It is *very*
intense, (as k persons love it!)

Really, I have lain awake at night, going through lots of issues...that's
how much this list can get to me.

What keeps me coming back is that, well, because I get to confront all these
issues, this list has true substance. This list is like a little world, and
we get to practice lots of things. We get to learn by our mistakes and by
our successes how to be move loving, patient, giving, and so on.

If no one made mistakes, this list would be really boring. Say whatever else
you will, but this list is not boring! It is alive.

Anyway, I am not even sure you made a "mistake". How do you know that? Maybe
you meant well, in every moment. That is my guess, no matter what the
incident is to which you refer. Who thinks we get to go through life without
"learning opportunities"? We'd be dead the day we couldn't learn how to do
things even better.
-
So PLEASE, take some deep breaths, and, wait a week, before making a final
decision, and feel free to change your mind. We would all miss you a lot!
Have the same compassion for yourself that you have so often shown for others.

Best, traveler



Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Daljit Singh 
Subject: [Fwd: THE PILGRIM'S WAY #2 -- My Faith and Action]


l. MY FAITH AND ACTION, both are prisoners of the
   fairy-faced.

   The present and the here-after weigh less than a single
   hair of my Beloved.

2. I cannot bear the dart of an eye drunk with love.
   One life-giving glance is enough for Ecstasy.

3. Sometimes a mystic, sometimes a hermit, and sometimes
   an epicure,

   My Beloved, like a changling, roams in many forms.

4. The price of the jewel none but the lover knows.

-   The value of the tear-born pearl only my tear shedding
   eye knows.

5. Every breath is dedicated, Goya, to the thought of the
   intoxicated narcissus,

   The cup of those eyes from which my heart drinks the wine
   of awareness.

_____________
Spiral Ascent

Goya is now deep in the realm of the subconscious. A flood of
emotions has stirred even the hardest of the human sub-soil.
The poet has become the cauldron of ecstatic experience. And
his inner self cries out "GIYE ME MY BELOVED."
_________________________
Taken from "The Pilgrim's Way," translation of Persian
originals of Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji, by B.P.L. Bedi,
Punjabi University, 1969
-


Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: leaving list

Hi all, sorry about this private posting, but my server is telling me I 
can't contact Dan Gahliger; just press delete and I'll continue to him.

-
Hi Dan Gahlinger

I tried to get a hold of you by email and failed.  Apparently, when you 
leave a list, this is par for the course. 

 I'm still here.  

jan

-

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: leaving the list

Dan Gahlinger wrote:
> 
> well i guess i'll be leaving the list now. there's no point in staying any
> more. i thought i could help, bring the list along, but some people on the
> list would rather hurt me any way they can. and i'm frustrated with the
> lack of understanding or respect people have.
> 
Welcome to the Real World of Human-to-Human Communication!  
Just be grateful you are not a priest or a preacher in some religious 
community.  Can you imagine the frustration they go through every day, 
being misunderstood and having to deal with cranks and crackpots?  
It is no wonder sages like Ramana Maharshi and Meher Baba gave up
talking.

As a lurker, I am sorry to see you go. After 2 years of reading many Usenet
newsgroups, I must say that, in comparison, this list is remarkably polite and
civilized and even enlightened!  You are all to be commended!

> this list was great, but recently its become a flame-zone. all the
> righteous preaching, [...] his only intent seems to be to disrupt the list. 
> he should have been removed long ago. 
> 
> the list has been reduced to 100% non-kundalini discussions, and drivel at
> that.
-
There is one thing I have learned from the Internet, and it is that:

  "People will not listen, and they will not shut up."

I am a supreme case-in-point.

cheers

"Samsara is Nirvana.  The Passions are the Bodhi."
-


Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: thank you all :)

thanks for everyone who wrote me and made me feel alot better. especially
Barb traveler, Mary and "Your friend at:" i had a pretty intense night last
night but am feeling much better now. i'm still a bit upset and don't know
quite exactly what all happened but think that there have been alot of
negative emotions running around the list in general and sometimes people
overreact to things when they're in a negative state of mind.

ach! this K stuff isn't easy sometimes! mines been quite active lately and
when it is, i get really sensitive to what's going on around me. I'M
overreacting as well.

thank you all again. I'm not going to leave now. i feel welcome again. :)

love and blessed be to all

Lia