'kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 191 

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject: Follow up & question about death

Some weeks ago, after posing the question to this list, I decided to 
share with my mom (a gentle skeptic) the "visions" I was getting about 
her approaching death.  She was loving and grateful and I believe 
talking at that time helped us both last week when she died.  Her death 
was extremely peaceful.  She died at home with my dad and myself 
holding her, encouraging her to feel loved and let go.  Sitting with 
her for the hour or so afterwards was the most tranquil time I have 
ever experienced.

Now the question.  My mom didn't suffer much, thank god (and modern 
pharmacology), but several hours before she died her hands and feet got 
boiling hot to the touch -- not her head, like a fever, but more like a 
last rush before she began to die.  I've seen people (and animals) 
suddenly get "well" before they die but nothing like this.  I'm 
wondering whether this has something to do with how the life-force 
inhabits our bodies.  Any thoughts?

Thanks and love to all,

Holly


-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: "Your friend at:" 
Subject: Re: eye contact

To whom it may concern, 

	Praying all is well and thanking everyone for their words of
wisdom.  Noticing this note I am reminded of my own thoughts in regards to
the newborn.  If a child is born into a situation that is not so karmicly
good, then I guess they have good reason to cry.  

Sincerely, 

cj



************  
"The person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady
-               in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
                        Bhagavad gita as it is 2.15

************

On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Mary Knapp wrote:

> At 10:14 AM 10/13/96 -0400, BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:
> 
> >I just have to learn to control the outward emotion. I have even picked up
> >saddness when I touched certain children. Karmic?  
> 
> 
> There is a song that goes "Kids are people too!"  Most are born crying.
> Having left a (possibly) quite peaceful non-physical state for this
> need-bound dependent life as a child I would think sadness would be a
> given...no karma required. You know what I mean?
> 		Mary,
> 	The Reluctant Earthling
> 
> 



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Ronald Paniagua 
Subject: list stay open and free

hristopher Williams wrote:
>
> OPEN LETTER TO RICHARD SATIN
>
> A little while ago you raised the question of changing this to a
> moderated list. After the input from Davelong I suggest NOW is the time.
>
> Please filter the messages before this list goes down the tubes.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Christopher Williams  
-
Beloved Ones:
I AM Antaris Ra Melchcizedek and I think the list should stay like
it is, not filtered zensured. kundallini is for everyone and
everyone has different exoiriences and different expressions.
(Naturally, beloved Richard, you should filter out tecnical problems
bounced mails, that other are not be "buttered" which such).
Stay open, stay  f r e e   stay in LOVE  - BE LOVE!
I am with all of you in the spirit
Antaris
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Terry Garrett 
Subject: Change the list status to a moderated list.

I too have been tempted to reply to davelong asking him to keep his
fundamentalist Christian BS to himself.  This  is not the proper forum for
proselytizing or even expounding one's personally held religious views. I
and presumably most other participants are  interested in hearing about
Kundalini as it is being experienced by others, and about advice in
achieving/enhancing/controlling Kundalini. Anything but those subjects is
noise and an unwelcome burden to wade through.. I've started deleting all
davelong messages before reading because he seems to be unwilling to limit
his comments to the subjects, but there are others rebutting, etc. that I'm
not aware of from the sender name.  A waste of precious time.

Please cast my vote in favor of a moderated list.
-
Thanks

Terry 


>OPEN LETTER TO RICHARD SATIN
>
>A little while ago you raised the question of changing this to a
>moderated list. After the input from Davelong I suggest NOW is the time.
->
>Please filter the messages before this list goes down the tubes.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Christopher Williams  
>
>


-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: leaving the list

Dear Dan,

I too have thought about leaving the list, for many of the same reasons. I
have memories of this list in freer times, when people spoke freely and
shared, without having this heavy judgement and anger stirred up.
-
I too have therefore yearned to be in a place where I could speak, and share
love, and peace, and integration, and stimulating concepts of all types
about the k.

If you leave, and I leave, and others leave, then the list may simply
reflect this heavy fundamentalist point of view. That is what they want: to
end all dialog, to drive all other viewpoints away. This is what they have
done for too long.

I have used this experience to grow. I have sought to understand other
points of view, so that I did not react to them, but embrace and understand
them. I know that what I resist will persist, that what I resist is a form
of dark mirror. Let me bring these other viewpoints into the sunshine.

I want to allow my self to be openminded. I want to understand more about
this point of view in a positive sense; I still don't agree, but I have
gained a greater exposure to this type of thinking, and in the process, have
become more understanding of those who think this way. Naturally I would
prefer that others present their viewpoints like offerings at a dinner
party, politely, as offerings, not as food to be forced down my throat. But
I don't always get what I want, I have learned.

In my opinion, there are those that believe in the ascended diety, god
separate from mankind, an unattainable ideal in this physical lifetime, etc.
The descended dieties approach is that heaven is here on earth, there is
nowhere to ascend to, we are already here. These are diametrically opposed.

I feel that the k is an evolutionary force; as such, it takes what already
exists and uses it to make the next great leaps forward. The k for me is
about the integration of these two attitudes; the integration of the
ascended and descended dieties. As our evolving world cultures strives to
integrate these two extremes (and it is already in this process) our
thinking will evolve, Right now, there is war between the two sides. In a
true evolutionary leap, both sides will be included in the newer, higher
level of consciousness.

There is no end. NO culture in time is privvy to the "final" answer. We are
always evolving.

So if we leave the k-list, we short-circuit the process. You, and I, and
others, even those who disagree with me, are a part of this process. I have
learned to respect the process, and expand my limits in the process.

Please consider staying. Let us find a way to keep in the dialog, so that we
can all make this list what we want it to be. (and ps- I am talking to
myself as well as you as I write this.)

Your contributions have been valued. I for one would miss you greatly if you
left.
-
PSS- I still think it would might be helpful to require a common standard of
courtesy for participants on the list, but my suggestion was met with so
much hostility (lack of courtesy) that I have not brought it up further.

Best, traveler



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Ronald Paniagua 
Subject: Just answered to a list-member privatrly, but

I AM ANTARIS RA MELCHIZEDEK; Ronald is the computer-man here.
Yes, right now many chancings are going on, the photon-belt is
comming closer and higher energies comming in; a side-effect of this 
higher vibrations is, that computers will going grazy and sometimes we 
will have totaly energy black-outs. Even batteries will not work, so get
yourself many candles!
Some days some of us are a little bitter, we are all here to learn, if 
we were perfect yet, we werenATNOSPAMt here anymore.
How to dislove the conflict when you are feeling pain and and distrust,
it is (sounds) very easy: Take all what it is about into the viollete 
flame
(of St. Germain) and let it be transformed by the violette flame, all 
these
contrary energies will be taken from you and you feel pure again – then
take back those pure (clean) energies corresponding to you and let all
other energies go to those, to whom they correspond.
Trust (!) that this will be done - and it IS done!
You are right: The best understanding ist just TO BE.
GOD is just BEING, therefore he/she does  n o t  interact into our every-
day-life, otherwise he/she would have left the BEING-STATUS.
Men and women on earth have still to fullfill their aim, because they 
have
incarnated on earth and this is mostly not be done  by just BEING.
I  try to BE just in peace, as often as I can; but sometimes you have to
take this peace with you into your activ day-time-work.
Others will follow the peace, if we do not make a case out of our words.
We ARE it. We have to pass knowledge along by BEING it, but often
we have to open our mouth to iniciate this process of passing-knowledge
along.
We can not expact everyone to love us, the way we are and for the 
"things we didnīt do", but sometimes we enter in such a selfish-mode >
running around to catch-up behind us again ….
And we also can not expact everyone to do things our way …. so every-
thing would be fine: If there were only one way to do a thing, GOD would
have created only one man (woman).
But at least love ourselves! Yes, this is important, because if you donīt
love yourself, how can you really love one other?
The use of kundalini is to get to higher realms by a combind sexual-
spiritual way on an individual path!
Love simply IS,
Antaris
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 
From: Mistress Angelique Serpent 
Subject: dave's homophobia.

>> I will not tolerate the hateful attacks you made in your posting dated 10/07.
>> As a gay man I am deeply offended by your self-righteous perverted
>> implication that religion-based homophobia is somehow 'kind'.
>
>Hello, John.
>
>A note to say 'hello'.
>
>You had ascribed to yourself a label, showing your self-identity, but of
>course who you *are* is much more than the label you gave yourself.
>You are no less than a creation of God, loved by Him just as much as
>anyone else. Unfortunately, you seem to have been given a personal test
>here on earth, which God wants for you to resist in your life.
>There aren't many such people who suffer from many such tests.
What Arrogance! So you are the voice of God, telling people how they shold live?
It is for you to judge whether a person's mode of expressing love is evil?
It is not for you do judge what God wants. Maybe God wants for you to learn
to love people for who they are, and not who your value system says they
should be.
>Look at the person who is prone to violence. It is just really hard for
>him to control himself. He has a really short fuse, and any little thing
>sets him off. His hormones start pumping and he starts throwing fists
>around. It's just 'natural,' from the standpoint of his body's chemical
>makeup. Does that excuse his behavior? No. It just means that he has to
>work harder than the rest of us, to control that fault, that failing,
>that
>behavior his animal-body want him to do.
Yes, lets look at that person with love and compassion. I see someone who is
so afraid that the universe will not love and support them, that they
believe they only deserve the friuts of violence. Someone who likely has
been raised to believe that violence gets results. Does judging that person
as evil support them into evolving into someone different? No. It only
mirrors back to them the rejection they have experienced already, reinforces
their belief in a violent and dangerous world. Turning the cheek is harder,
but it breaks the effect cycle. Isn't that what your bible teaches?
>Look at the schoolyard bully. It seems perfectly natural for strong kids
>to want to scare and dominate their classmates, if they can get away
>with
>it. It's just something their bodies wants to do. You see it all the
>time.
>Does that make it okay? No.
Were you like that? Did you have that experience, that you can know it so
casually?
I have gotten to know most of the bullies from my school years, as adults. 
Usually, they have gained the perspective that their attmpts to control
thier peers was a manifestation of the helplessness they felt in their own
lives. Often because of domestic abuse. So what do you do? Give them the
strap. and teach them it's okay for bigger people to hurt smaller people who
displease them. That it's loving behavior.
>Being "gay" (certainly an Orwellian term) is nothing more than the
>suffering of an evil desire.
How ridiculous, these patriarchs. All acts of love and pleasure serve the
Goddess.
Jesus only gave you 2 rules, dave. He didn't say anything about restrictions
on how you love thy neighbor. Did he? Nope. All those ideas came after.
> There is nothing morally wrong with being
>afflicted with an evil desire, so long as the temptation isn't given
>into.
>The fact is, there is no such thing as an 'irresistible temptation.'
>God never allows the devil to tempt us more than we can resist the
>temptation. We can always resist any temptation that comes along.
Do what thou wilt, but do no harm. That shall be the whole of the law.
>How do these "tests" come to us? Maybe through genetics. Maybe that's
>how they arrive. But that in no way justifies or excuses the behaviors.
Goddess made all of us perfect. She does not need to justify anything to you.
  As to how she makes Homosexuals, in all my research, I have come across
one theroy that makes excellent sense, and seems to be borne out by
considerable research.
-  All nature starts out female, and all human fetus is female for the first
six weeks of life, before mother starts producing testosterone to create
maleness, brain and physical gender.
  If mother is under much stress while these changes are taking place, her
body's needs to produce adrenaline for her own safety takes precedence over
testosterone production.
The result can be female brain and needs, in a male body. This is
additionally verified by the fact that gay men have often a female brain;
the female cerebral cortex is significantly larger in women and gay men,
than in sraight men.
-  Funny, you could almost see it as a birth defect, caused by the lack of
support and respect for pregnant women. Gosh, dave. All those aborted babies
from those stressed out women probably were gay anyway...to poke another
judgement you mentioned.
>Finally, the other Orwellian term you used needs further definition:
>Homophobia: Men smearing each other with excrement, and anyone who says
>that is wrong is charged with 'homophobia.' Nature Herself abhors the
>open-sewer-pit of the homosexual's bedroom.
  Since when is partriachal religion respectful of what nature thinks?
The symbol of Nature's God is the symbol of the devil, according to Rome.
This, I think, is only what dave's repressed nature thinks.
>> There is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus was alive today, he would be
>> marching with us in gay pride parades.  He befriended the lepers, the
>> prostitutes, and confronted the hypocrisy of the religious and political
>> powers of his day, who ultimately murdered him for his activism.
Amen. And I am happy to work improving the self esteem of society's
outcastes, homosexuals and submissive masochists. And sadistic bitches like
me! Hee Hee!
We are here. Were not going away. We express love differently. Get used to it.
>"Go and sin no more."
>Sin shouldn't be flaunted, paraded, or even preached.
Nor are you supposed to sit in judgement of the sins of others, but you left
out that part. Who is the one preaching of sin here? Seems like your fave
subject, eh? You who claim to be the voice of God. We don't need your
forgiveness, or your permission, or approval. We don't need any excuses or
justification for being. We are who Goddess made us, and your not being able
to accept that idea is your problem. Learn to love more.
>Peace be with you,
>David
  I am at peace with myself, thankyou. I hope you find peace in the idea
that it is yourself you are trying to repress. Blessings, Angelique.



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 
From: Mistress Angelique Serpent 
Subject: Re: not leaving the list

>
> Hey, Dan, you can always correspond with me.
>Remember, though, that the first part of the K. process is the evaluation
and strengthening of your own morality structure, so that the other guy's
stuff bounces off.
>  Well, obviously you're not there yet.
>Rather than blame the list for not living up to your expectations, try
believing that the list is perfect. People are working out thier issues, the
best way they can.
>These are issues that must bug you, too, or you would not be running away.
>The list represents the planet. Everywhere, people are opening up and
discovering lots of judgements that may be released. As above as below, Dan.
Help the healers to resolve and release thier issues, so they can go out to
thier community and spread light.
>Hey, sometimes it's tough to be a teacher. The kids act up and don't
listen. Doesn't matter. Your challenge is to find a way to teach them
anyway. Sometimes that means tough stuff. The best teachers take the kids
current interests, and incorporate them into the lesson. That's what I try
to do. Tie the arguments, relentlessly, back to K.
>  You know the list needs your insights to grow past this stage. You know
also, that there will always be new people joining, who are at that stage:
They hear God, but they think that what God says is right for them, is right
for everybody. 
>  You are a calm voice saying it ain't necessarily so...
>So, in spite of your tag line, you deny this lists possibilities?
>Tsk tsk. Blessings, Angelique.
>



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: ADM:  Moderation

Dear List Members,

Moderating a list would require more time than I am willing to put forth. 
If there is a person who would like to assume this task, please email me
privately.  Otherwise, there is no chance of this happening in the near
future.

Very truly yours,
Richard

I have died so little today, friend, forgive me.
Thomas Lux