'kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 190 

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: An Ethical Kundalini question from a new list member

At 08:46 PM 10/12/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I do not look into people. Haven't since before my K started rising.  I feel
>I already know too much without even looking. I am accused of not looking
>people in the eye.  Well, it is a bit much.  Once I know someone quite well
>I make more eye contact.  Still not as much as others (non-K types)
>probably.  Haven't thought about this very much really, other than to
>observe it.  Your post was somewhat helpful to me.  I think I tust my own
>familiar behavior even more now.

I have looked on occasion. its a matter of ethics and morals, pretty much
the same as other stuff. its what society sets, and theres always karma, if
its a known close friend, this usually happens subconciously, you think
about them, and then POP, there you are looking in. so with permission, its
acceptable.

interesting you should mention looking people in the eyes, i avoid it like
the plague. the eyes are the windows to the soul. i think i mentioned
previously, i'm an empath, and touch is painful unless i'm prepared, so the
looking in the eyes is extremely uncomfortable, the empathy is like full
tilt then. and you get everything about them, or whatever. yep. i avoid it,
unless i prepare myself first, or good close friends, or special situations.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Personal Tests

LIShamanATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> I will not tolerate the hateful attacks you made in your posting dated 10/07.
> As a gay man I am deeply offended by your self-righteous perverted
> implication that religion-based homophobia is somehow 'kind'.

Hello, John.

A note to say 'hello'.

You had ascribed to yourself a label, showing your self-identity, but of
course who you *are* is much more than the label you gave yourself.
You are no less than a creation of God, loved by Him just as much as
anyone else. Unfortunately, you seem to have been given a personal test
here on earth, which God wants for you to resist in your life.
There aren't many such people who suffer from many such tests.

Look at the person who is prone to violence. It is just really hard for
him to control himself. He has a really short fuse, and any little thing
sets him off. His hormones start pumping and he starts throwing fists
around. It's just 'natural,' from the standpoint of his body's chemical
makeup. Does that excuse his behavior? No. It just means that he has to
work harder than the rest of us, to control that fault, that failing,
that behavior his animal-body want him to do.

Look at the schoolyard bully. It seems perfectly natural for strong kids to
want to scare and dominate their classmates, if they can get away with it. It's
just something their bodies wants to do. You see it all the time. Does that
make it okay? No.

Being "gay" (certainly an Orwellian term) is nothing more than the
suffering of an evil desire. There is nothing morally wrong with being
afflicted with an evil desire, so long as the temptation isn't given
into.
The fact is, there is no such thing as an 'irresistible temptation.'
God never allows the devil to tempt us more than we can resist the
temptation. We can always resist any temptation that comes along.

How do these "tests" come to us? Maybe through genetics. Maybe that's
how they arrive. But that in no way justifies or excuses the behaviors.

Finally, the other Orwellian term you used needs further definition:
Homophobia: Men smearing each other with excrement, and anyone who says
that is wrong is charged with 'homophobia.' Nature Herself abhors the
open-sewer-pit of the homosexual's bedroom.

> There is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus was alive today, he would be
> marching with us in gay pride parades.  He befriended the lepers, the
> prostitutes, and confronted the hypocrisy of the religious and political
> powers of his day, who ultimately murdered him for his activism.

"Go and sin no more."
Sin shouldn't be flaunted, paraded, or even preached.

Peace be with you,
David



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: maxmatusATNOSPAMmbox.vol.it
Subject: Re: No compromise with Kundalini, please!
-
i'm new to the list so i wanted to say HI to everyone!

>But whichever be the situation of these people, there is no way in which 
>one should accept any compromise-teaching about Kundalini -- it is 
>far too dangerous! So if the tradition speaks about *complete* 
>continence (brahmacharya) as a requisite for the successful ascension of 
>Kundalini, *let us not improvise naively*, and pretend that maybe that 
>is not so important... It is like fooling around with the basic rules 
>concerning electricity -- it can turn pretty unhealthy :-)
>And one does not need to be a "divine Yogi" to control one's sexual 
>potential, neither an "advanced practitioner". It takes about two weeks 
>(at the most) for a woman, and three to six months for a stubborn man -- 
>the figures are taken from direct Western experience.

It sounds so easy here, but i think the problem is to go through the
"three-six months". Any suggestions?
Of course when you practice continence you feel recharged, but seems that
there is, after a period of three-four weeks, that it's difficoult to pass,
where everything seem flat. Also the meditation doesn't bring you far, you
don't feel the joy of the warm current ascending. Is it normal?

Thanks
Massimo 
from Capri "The island of love :-("

"Tyranny of human insanity" E.Levi 



-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: "Your friend at:" 
Subject: An Introduction

Hi!

	I would like to introduce myself.  I was born 12/17/57 in New
Orleans, Louisiana and still live near New Orleans.   I currently do
volunteer work with the New Orleans freenet and am developing a global
community service organization.  You can check our website at
(http://www.gnofn.org/~oxoasis).  Thank you for your patience and if I can
be of any assistance please let me know.  

	I have taken Diksa with an international Bhakti-yoga society and
am a student of the Bhagavad-gita.  To me Kundalini is a part of
Astanga-yoga.   The end result is perfect transcendental bliss or samadhi.
Some practical advice is given for yoga aspirants in the Bhagavad-gita.  I
hope I can be of assistance.

Sincerely, 

Christopher


**********************  
"The person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady
               in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
                        Bhagavad gita as it is 2.15

**********************



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: LIShamanATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: My response to Dave Long

>> There is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus was alive today, he would be
>> marching with us in gay pride parades.  He befriended the lepers, the
>> prostitutes, and confronted the hypocrisy of the religious and political
>> powers of his day, who ultimately murdered him for his activism.
>
>"Go and sin no more."
>Sin shouldn't be flaunted, paraded, or even preached.
>
Dave -

Are you calling Jesus a sinner?  I find it very funny that Jesus demonstrated
to mankind what a truly spiritual life was, and that contemporary "Christians"
have become the very antithesis of what he preached and lived!  How do your
reconcile that in your own personal life?

My homosexuality has, in fact, become my greatest spiritual gift.  It has
helped me to question what, in fact, is moral and immoral in this culture.
 It has guided me deeper and deeper into a process of self-acceptance that
has been very difficult but very rewarding at the same time.  It has also
been a means of individuation and self-acceptance that is required for mature
spiritual growth. 

>God never allows the devil to tempt us more than we can resist the
>temptation. We can always resist any temptation that comes along.

Jesus also taught that God was a loving father, not an examination proctor!
 As a father of 2 daughters, my greatest gift to them is loving support for
who they are, and who they want to be for themselves.  This is what love is.
 It is not my job to help them resist
"temptation" or conform to my own "values".  That isn't love, it is selfish
control.

-
Sincerely,

John



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: joyce bays 
Subject: Kundalini is a gift
-
 Hi everyone,

I have been sitting back and reading all of your post, and adjusting to
my newly awaken gift of "K" .

I consider my self lucky that I have been in contact with my spirit
guide for nearly 20 years, as he has been a great help to me with this
process. Also I have a good friend, even though he lives a few hundred
miles away, that has been sending me energies that have me balance.
-
for the pas tcouple of weeks I have been meditating on this process, and
I would like to share with you, the many things I am discovering.

I like to call the unpleasent part, side effects, and the good part as
the gift.
After reading so much about the side effects and also experiencing so
many of them, I kept wondering why my guide permited this to happen to
me he has always been there to help and guide me away from harmfull
experiences, so now why would he forsake me this way? This was my bigest
question.
After much meditation it came to me if I had know what it involved I
never whould try to experience it. So, because I did, there had to be a
reason.

When I asked my guide to help me handel this his response  was" Be still
and know I am You" Letting me know he is my higher self. He led me to
find a quite space within my mind where he balanced my chakras. this
along with the energies from my friend have helped  alleviate the side
effects, I'm still haveing them but not as bad as before. He has also
led me to feel this is a gift and must be handled wisely, and not
something to play with.

 "K" when handel properly assist the soul to a higher vibration in a
faster manner then normal meditations can, helping you to reach a higher
plateau. "K" can also help you to quickly cleanse and activate your
Chakras. The first one I was able to activate was my heart Chakra, this
alone has made the discomfort worth it. I have never had a better
feeling then this, nothing can compare to the elation.

Love and light
Joyce



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: eye contact

Dan
When I meet someone whom I immediately know I want to get to know better, I
will touch their arm and look into their eyes and I sense their feelings of
saddness. Tears always come to my eyes and I must look away to control the
overwhelming feeling I am sensing. Sometimes I leave the area to release the
emotion. Why do I always pick up the feelings of saddness? Seems the touch
and the eye contact is extremely intense. My natural tendency is to touch, to
let others know safety, secruity, etc.
My profession is in the healing arts, I touch many people, I always feel
sadness. Should I stop looking into peoples eyes? NO, that is against my
belief system. Please do not think of me as a depressed person. Total
opposite. I am a fun loving people loving person who happens to pick up on
other peoples sadness.
I just have to learn to control the outward emotion. I have even picked up
saddness when I touched certain children. Karmic?  
Will continue w/ eye contact even though I feel the intense feelings. The
person needs to release even though they are unawares what is happening. I
know I am at a level of handling the saddness of that person.
Thanks for listening..........Peace.........Kathleen


-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re:hateful attacks

We are not here to hurt others.  We need to accept others for their beliefs. 
Give love and understanding to others, love unselfishly and keep your heart
pure.
Do not bring harm to those around you, with thought words or physical means.
Accept people for their choices. We are all interconnected to one another,
try not to pull the fiber apart. You are entitled to your opinion, however
being hurtful w/ the opinion makes matters worse.
Sending peace and love.......Kathleen



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert )
Subject: Re: Personal Tests

Dave,
The self-righteous, homophobic comments that you presented to the
k-list aren't even worth the time for me to respond.  I repeat them
to you so that you may re-read them and contemplate just what
you have said.  Of what value are they?  What good can come from 
them? What is your real intent in expressing them?  There tone, to me,
speaks more from the "dark side" than from a place of one seeking
enlightenment.  If one is truly more advanced than another on the Path,
I believe he would offer a helping hand and encouragement to the one
struggling along behind him/her, and not hurl slanderous condemnation
upon him/her.

>You had ascribed to yourself a label, showing your self-identity, but of
>course who you *are* is much more than the label you gave yourself.
>You are no less than a creation of God, loved by Him just as much as
>anyone else. Unfortunately, you seem to have been given a personal test
>here on earth, which God wants for you to resist in your life.
>There aren't many such people who suffer from many such tests.
>
>Look at the person who is prone to violence. It is just really hard for
>him to control himself. He has a really short fuse, and any little thing
>sets him off. His hormones start pumping and he starts throwing fists
>around. It's just 'natural,' from the standpoint of his body's chemical
>makeup. Does that excuse his behavior? No. It just means that he has to
>work harder than the rest of us, to control that fault, that failing,
>that
>behavior his animal-body want him to do.
>
>Look at the schoolyard bully. It seems perfectly natural for strong kids
>to want to scare and dominate their classmates, if they can get away
>with
>it. It's just something their bodies wants to do. You see it all the
>time.
>Does that make it okay? No.
>
>Being "gay" (certainly an Orwellian term) is nothing more than the
>suffering of an evil desire. There is nothing morally wrong with being
>afflicted with an evil desire, so long as the temptation isn't given
>into.
>The fact is, there is no such thing as an 'irresistible temptation.'
>God never allows the devil to tempt us more than we can resist the
>temptation. We can always resist any temptation that comes along.
>
>How do these "tests" come to us? Maybe through genetics. Maybe that's
>how they arrive. But that in no way justifies or excuses the behaviors.
>
>Finally, the other Orwellian term you used needs further definition:
>Homophobia: Men smearing each other with excrement, and anyone who says
>that is wrong is charged with 'homophobia.' Nature Herself abhors the
>open-sewer-pit of the homosexual's bedroom.
->
>> There is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus was alive today, he would be
>> marching with us in gay pride parades.  He befriended the lepers, the
>> prostitutes, and confronted the hypocrisy of the religious and political
>> powers of his day, who ultimately murdered him for his activism.
>
>"Go and sin no more."
>Sin shouldn't be flaunted, paraded, or even preached.
>
>Peace be with you,
>David
>
>



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: eye contact

At 10:14 AM 10/13/96 -0400, BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

>I just have to learn to control the outward emotion. I have even picked up
>saddness when I touched certain children. Karmic?  


There is a song that goes "Kids are people too!"  Most are born crying.
Having left a (possibly) quite peaceful non-physical state for this
need-bound dependent life as a child I would think sadness would be a
given...no karma required. You know what I mean?
-		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 
From: "PHUOC NGUYEN" 
Subject: Kundalini (Vietnamese way) 6

The Third degree of meditation
-
Happy: your subject can emit a sparkling yellow light. You are always happy. 
stay in me ..." This revelation come from Friend Va^n in Viet Nam.
Feeling "light": "more than leather" is what I can tell to you for now ...
Focusing of mind: This kind of sparkling light is sometime a thousand times 
compare to the sun, and the subject, of course, is very clear with a wonderful 
3D.

With a sparkling light, your subject stay in your vision from 40 to 70 
seconds. 
The more it stays the more it sparkles, try to keep it with the most sparkling 
light possible ...With this simple vision, your "Monkey mind" is reduces 
nearly at Zero (0).
Troubleshooting:
You can feel a "subtle waving" in your mind. Sometime, a thought pop up in 
your calm mind: Maybe I can not progress because this waving feeling come from 
inside of me! 
Don't worry! This kind of "subtle waving" is your root of your monkey mind 
(the bottom of your subconscious).

The five parts below are only the preparation for your monkey mind to become a 
steady, calm  mind ( without of selfish, angry, worry, sad …).

Now, your mind is ready for the biggest event: the sacred Kundalini is in your 
sight.
(coming up: How to awake the coiling power in a safety way, and the most 
important think is to control it) 



-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: asanas for celibacy (long)

>no offense is meant by this email...
>
>who in their right mind wants celibacy? i'm a single guy.  i get
>enough non-voluntary celibacy, i dont need more.
>
>sorry Lia, dont mean it QUITE the way it might sound. thanks, hopefully
>someone else on the list will find it useful. i still think finding a
>girlfriend is a better solution  then i can try all that tantra
>stuff people have been gossiping about. no fair... sigh.
>Dan.
>There are always possibilities...

no offense taken dan. i found these asanas helped me when i was
involuntarily celibate for awhile. the effect of the DOES wear off if you
happen to have no more need of that.
-
Lia



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: eye contact

>At 10:14 AM 10/13/96 -0400, BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:
->
>>I just have to learn to control the outward emotion. I have even picked up
>>saddness when I touched certain children. Karmic?
>
>
>There is a song that goes "Kids are people too!"  Most are born crying.
>Having left a (possibly) quite peaceful non-physical state for this
>need-bound dependent life as a child I would think sadness would be a
>given...no karma required. You know what I mean?
>                Mary,
>        The Reluctant Earthling

yes, but children are also natural healers and empaths. as Rudolf Stien
(founder of the Waldorf education system said "children are huge sense
organs" they pick absolutely everything up. inmy experience, bitter and or
sad children have learnt that energy pattern from their parents. i think
parents need to be more concious of that. to release any sadness or anger
they have, and to not pass it nto their children. i try my hardest to do
this with my son, and alot of people comment on what a happy and good
natured baby he is.
-
just my theory :)

blessed be

Lia



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: eye contact

At 10:14 AM 10/13/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dan
>When I meet someone whom I immediately know I want to get to know better, I
>will touch their arm and look into their eyes and I sense their feelings of
>saddness. Tears always come to my eyes and I must look away to control the
>overwhelming feeling I am sensing. Sometimes I leave the area to release the
>emotion. Why do I always pick up the feelings of saddness? Seems the touch
>and the eye contact is extremely intense. My natural tendency is to touch, to
>let others know safety, secruity, etc.

thats completely different. as I mentioned, touch with healing is highly
acceptable. no karmic problems there. but you can work on your "control" of
this as well. as an empath, if i touch someone i get EVERYTHING, all that
they are feeling, etc its like an electric shock. there are ways to work on
this so you can touch the other person without getting the shock, and still
heal them i believe. although sadness is a tough one, and i think maybe it
might not. so as long as you can handle others sadness then go for it!
shesh. you should try my sadness someday. 
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Chuck Tedesco 
Subject: Re: Personal Tests

Dave,
Please take your judgement somewhere else.  My guess is that anyone who 
can tell somebody else what God wants is somebody who has plenty of 
their own personal/spiritual issues to deal with.  That is just a guess, 
though.  How could I know what is right for you.  Please feel free to 
not reply.
-- 
 Chuck Tedesco      Smoking Release Associates  HTTP://WWW.SRA1.COM
 Smoking Cessation Coach   Service via phone/e-mail/products shipped
 For free "Stress Management Tips for Smokers" send blank e-mail to:
- TIPSATNOSPAMSRA1.COM    Unique, proven programs for individuals and groups.



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: leaving the list

well i guess i'll be leaving the list now. there's no point in staying any
more. i thought i could help, bring the list along, but some people on the
list would rather hurt me any way they can. and i'm frustrated with the
lack of understanding or respect people have.

this list was great, but recently its become a flame-zone. all the
righteous preaching, especially by that davelong person. and all the
responses. his only intent seems to be to disrupt the list. he should have
been removed long ago.

the list has been reduced to 100% non-kundalini discussions, and drivel at
that.
-
but thats not the only, or even the primary reasons i'm leaving. i guess
i'm just fed up with it all. theres no one here left for myself to discuss
with, they've all left. so it's time i joined them, wherever they are.

so my search for a better place continues. i cant even say goodbye to
anyone here, they've all left already...

i wish the rest of you well, no hard feelings or anything. i hope you all
develope your process and learn, and grow. theres very little time left.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: No compromise with Kundalini, please!

Hi P. As an astrologer I can agree with you about learning a little and
then expounding greatly, however, I do not think astrology is a
spiritual study. The Hari Krishnas have identified it as the highest of
the material studies, and I can agree with that.Love Royale



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: [Fwd: Failed mail  (msg.aa17874)]

Yes, I have alway made it a pracitce to too people directly in the eyes
and show me interest or concern when talking to them. I think is helps
to establish a direct connection to them and helps communication alot.
Love Royale


.-



-
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Dave & John

In message ,
LIShamanATNOSPAMaol.com writes
>
>>"Go and sin no more."
>>Sin shouldn't be flaunted, paraded, or even preached.
>>
>Dave -
>
>Are you calling Jesus a sinner?  I find it very funny that Jesus demonstrated
>to mankind 
>
>Sincerely,
>
>John
>
-
What has this got to do with K and can't Dave and John sort out their
differences without mailing the rest of the group?


Christopher Williams  



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Change the list status to a moderated list.

OPEN LETTER TO RICHARD SATIN

A little while ago you raised the question of changing this to a
moderated list. After the input from Davelong I suggest NOW is the time.

Please filter the messages before this list goes down the tubes.

Thank you.

Christopher Williams