kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 189 

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: No compromise with Kundalini, please!

Paco has written:

Natha,
I wanted to say something at this point.
There is no denying that your information on
Tantric practices has some truth to it and is
rooted in primordial wisdom.

Perspective is required, however. Some of the practices
you describe are just not for everybody. (etc.)
----------------------------

So is Kundalini: not for everybody! The Yogic and Tantric texts are full 
of warnings for the *madmen* who would play chaotically with this 
gigantic force of the Nature. There is a strict technology to it, 
outside of which one positively risks to blow one's bulb... Without this 
clear understanding, *to give advice* (as some people on this list 
feel so free to do!) about Kundalini is like sending a child alone with 
a hammer, to fix a nuclear reactor.

There are on this list a lot of people with various problems: 
schizophrenics, manio-depressives, alcoholics, patients of Alzheimer, 
people with serious existential dilemas, etc., etc. (this is not meant 
as an insult to anyone, since those people have openly confessed here 
their problems, and asked for advice). Some of them have true Kundalini 
phenomena, others (IMHO) only believe so, and interpret mistakenly 
various physiological and psychic phenomena as Kundalini. Some of these 
people have awakened their Kundalini on purpose (somehow...), while 
others deem themselves as mere "victims" of it.

But whichever be the situation of these people, there is no way in which 
one should accept any compromise-teaching about Kundalini -- it is 
far too dangerous! So if the tradition speaks about *complete* 
continence (brahmacharya) as a requisite for the successful ascension of 
Kundalini, *let us not improvise naively*, and pretend that maybe that 
is not so important... It is like fooling around with the basic rules 
concerning electricity -- it can turn pretty unhealthy :-)

And one does not need to be a "divine Yogi" to control one's sexual 
potential, neither an "advanced practitioner". It takes about two weeks 
(at the most) for a woman, and three to six months for a stubborn man -- 
the figures are taken from direct Western experience.
-
And of course that one *needs* to control one's sexual energy to 
accomplish spiritual goals. Even the sport champions, martial artists, 
or chess players know this simple truth, for more simple goals and for 
shorter periods of time. You say that people would become agitated if 
they would do this, but it is precisely that "agitation" that we are 
talking about and that opposes to the spiritual drowsy of those who lack 
this control. The space here is much to short to go into the details of 
this matter, but I will be at your disposal with further explanations. 
Anyhow, remember that one does not need to "suck water through the tip 
of the penis" for this, neither does the semen go into the bladder -- or 
it would be simply *lost*.

With blessings,

-- 
Natha Bhaktyananda 
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
-


Date: Sat, 12 Oct 96 
From: "PHUOC NGUYEN" 
Subject: kundalini (Vietnamese way) 4

When your subject appear in twelve (12) seconds in your sight you reach the 
First degree of meditation.
Troubleshooting: You become more and more sensible about your environment. 
Specially in what direction you face at, when you practice meditation. When 
you sit: You feel as you are tilting ... Or you feel waving in the case of 
"lying down" for meditate...
Solving: Turn clockwise 45 degree on the other direction, until you feel 
stable, and safe. Keep that direction for the next practice.

*A flame appears very clear then suddenly multiply and become and "wild fire" 
(with water as a subject, you will see: it change to a sea): 
That symptom indicates in the past: You always "amplified an event" to 
someone. Like when you lost a little fish you always report to your friend 
that you lost a BIG FISH like this...:->
*A flame appears very clean but tilting: That shows you are "not fair" in your 
judgment... :->
never go straight :->

Solving: Do not worry about that! Just focus in the Subject. Then, all your 
bad behaviors will go by the time of practice!!!

A sensation backward or sideward like shifting a gear when you drive a car, 
indicate you are a new comer. You never been in this hight level of meditation 
for any incarnations (lifes) ago. After this "shifting gear" you feel a light 
(not heavy) sensation in your body.

Life Time Remark:
If suddenly your subject disappears and you see "some other visions not in 
this program" just ignore it! Return to your subject, do not lose your 
frequency, be independence … By only this way: You can go far.(Learn by heart 
this tip)

A flame appears in a black and deep sky: In full 3D dimension (stereo vision), 
and stay in 12 seconds.
This is what we are looking for! Really you are doing a good job! This simple 
vision indicates  those bad behaviors are almost clear from you! 

Go ahead, and good luck for the "Second degree of meditation"! (coming up! How 
do you know that you are in the Second degree of meditation?)
   ^    ^
( 0 Y 0 )
     ||         Nguyen Phuoc
  \,,,,,/
-


Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Background Info.

Mary Knapp writes
>
>long run. Can you suggest some readings that might be helpful in achieving
->
>               Mary,
>       The Reluctant Earthling
>
Mary:

I know you asked this question a couple of weeks ago but Patti's
question and K being different for men and women made me think that what
might be helpful to you is a book on the background out of which K, as a
modern development, is growing. 
-
The book in question is called Return of the Goddess, by Edward C
Whitmont, published by Arkana. To give a feel for the book I have copied
the blurb from the back cover.

....................................
Return of the Goddess
Admidst the upheaval of our society, a new myth is rising - the myth of
the ancient Goddess who once ruled earth and heaven before the advent of
patriarchy and patriarchal religion. Traditional male and female roles
in society are being challenged, and the feminine call for a new
recognition is rising simultaneously with the violence that threatens to
get out of hand. Edward C Whitmont, one of the world's most respected
Jungian analysts, argues that our society has long been dominated by
male-orientated concepts of power and aggression, but is now re-entering
a period when feminine values - instinct, feeling, intuition, emotion -
will play a greater role. 
.....................................

Chapter 12 has two sections to it, one is called The Feminine: The
Challenge of Being, and the other is called The Masculine: The Seeker.

To some extent this chapter gives a background to Patti's question about
K being differnt for men and women as it deals with the changes society
as a whole is passing through. If K is the tip of the mountain then this
book will give one a feeling for the groundswell in the general
population.

To state the obvious the reason one might read this is to ground one's
self by understanding the roots of this energy, where it is from, the
dynamics and where it might be going.

The book does NOT talk about the Kundalini directly but about the rise
of the feminine within both men and women. However it should be very
simple for those on this list to see the connection with K when reading
the book. 

Christopher Williams  


-
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Men and Apes

Dear All,

There is a wonderful article in Time magazine this week about a particular
type of chimps.  In this group, the women bond heavily and control some of
the baser male impulses from their own strong female group.  Those baser
male impulses that I remember being mentioned were: rape and infanticide.
There were other acts of violence also.  

I hope the social scientist who usually read heavily into primate behavior
do NOT overlook this one.  It could help human evolution were it to get wide
publicity. 

Photocopy it and share it with LOTS of friends! 


At 11:31 PM 10/12/96 +0100, Christopher Williams wrote:
>
>The book in question is called Return of the Goddess, by Edward C
>Whitmont, published by Arkana. To give a feel for the book I have copied
>the blurb from the back cover.
>
>....................................
>Return of the Goddess
>Admidst the upheaval of our society, a new myth is rising - the myth of
>the ancient Goddess who once ruled earth and heaven before the advent of
>patriarchy and patriarchal religion. Traditional male and female roles
>in society are being challenged, and the feminine call for a new
>recognition is rising simultaneously with the violence that threatens to
>get out of hand. Edward C Whitmont, one of the world's most respected
>Jungian analysts, argues that our society has long been dominated by
>male-orientated concepts of power and aggression, but is now re-entering
>a period when feminine values - instinct, feeling, intuition, emotion -
>will play a greater role. 
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling
-


Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: No compromise with Kundalini, please!

At 06:48 PM 10/12/96 +0200, you wrote:

>And one does not need to be a "divine Yogi" to control one's sexual 
>potential, neither an "advanced practitioner". It takes about two weeks 
>(at the most) for a woman, and three to six months for a stubborn man -- 
>the figures are taken from direct Western experience.
>

Were these Western female experiencers from this century?  Victorian Era
perhaps?  Could you name three or four of them please?
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling

-

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: kundalini (Vietnamese way) 4

To Nguyen
I have been meditating over 20 years. I have a question that maybe you could
answer. Maybe 10 years ago I remember meditating (reclining position) and I
had the sensation of the room and the bed spinning around me. I tried to
meditate through this feeling to no avail. I had to stop and sit up. This
happened several times throughout the year until finally I guess I worked
through it. Just curious about what your feelings on that would be. I haven't
had that sensation since then.

Peace.....Kathleen



Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: FlarityjATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: An Ethical Kundalini question from a new list member

Should you look into people?

Background:  Six months ago, I had a magical mystical moment.  I had a date
with a women I knew I loved as soon as I entered her presence.  It had a much
deeper, sure feel from the very beginning.  She was a Kundalini yoga
practitioner.  I had done little more than wonder about the nature of the
universe.  I am a DWM, age 40, with two sons living with me, ages 10 and 8.
-
As I lay beside her in front of the fire, I felt a tremendous wave of energy
sweep through me.  I had no sleep that night as a multitude of images--some
loving, some poignant, some terrifying-- passed before my open eyes.

I knew that I had slipped from the bank and into a joyous flowing river, with
the open ocean beckoning.  My new girlfriend was amazed at first, grew more
fearful, and then asked me never to call her again, leaving me with the
ironic comment of, I’ll look for someone less mystical next time.  Her
rational was that it is somehow unethical to look into people as I now have
the sensitivity to do.

So I immediately called a former girlfriend (unpronounceable yoga instructor)
I have remained close to for 16 years with the identical question.  She
replied that it is tantamount to stealing soul energy to look into people
without their invitation. 

Still unbelieving, and having no guru,  I asked the universe the same
question and this was their reply:

Do you come from a place of love and not manipulation?
Do you seek to know and understand and not expose or frighten?
Do you also stand naked before them with every flaw and black mark revealed?

If yes, you may stay in the river and wait for our coming.

And so I ask our group of netwise Kundalini aware folks this same question:
 DO YOU LOOK INTO PEOPLE?

Please thoughtfully forward personal comments directly to flarityjATNOSPAMaol.com.
-


Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: Prafulla Gang 
Subject: RE: No compromise with Kundalini, please!

Hi to all

Without Prejudice
I agree to the comments by Shri Natha Bhaktyananda.  The tantrik
practices are not joke, and one does not get through reading few books
and reading spiritual tapes.  It requires great sacrifice, meditation,
concentration, right guidance (guru) and lots of discipline (one of them
is refraining from sex, time bound prayers etc. ).
People present them in half cooked manner, without realizing the
seriousness of the subject, with their convenient philosophies. These
practices need to be taken in  the way, they are defined. One cannot
change the recipe, because one likes the different taste.
Unfortunately, I observe similar attitude from people on astrology.
Without putting any serious energy into related spiritual subjects,
people get into astrology (through few books and tapes!). They then,
modify the entire subject, what their own fancies guide them to. I feel
that, the concept of any spiritual studies have to be taken in totality,
not in segmented manner.
Prafulla Gang



Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: An Ethical Kundalini question from a new list member

I do not look into people. Haven't since before my K started rising.  I feel
I already know too much without even looking. I am accused of not looking
people in the eye.  Well, it is a bit much.  Once I know someone quite well
I make more eye contact.  Still not as much as others (non-K types)
probably.  Haven't thought about this very much really, other than to
observe it.  Your post was somewhat helpful to me.  I think I tust my own
familiar behavior even more now.
-

At 10:37 PM 10/12/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Should you look into people?
>
>Background:  Six months ago, I had a magical mystical moment.  I had a date
>with a women I knew I loved as soon as I entered her presence.  It had a much
>deeper, sure feel from the very beginning.  She was a Kundalini yoga
>practitioner.  I had done little more than wonder about the nature of the
>universe.  I am a DWM, age 40, with two sons living with me, ages 10 and 8.
>
[snipped]
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 
From: tejkohliATNOSPAMgiasdl01.vsnl.net.in
Subject: No compromise with kundalini etc.

Hi everyone!

Due to paucity of time and other reasons, I had been only lerking for a 
long time. But something that was mentioned on the list compels me to 
write about it. Wrong and fictitious knowledge in the path to kundalini 
can do a lot of harm, and delay the process, as happened in my case.

What I am refering to is the fact that some "learned" and "experiended" K 
practitioners seem to think that sexual abstinence or celibacy is good 
and essential for the kundalini. IMHO nothing could be farther from the 
truth. I have posted on this topic several times before. I am Indian by 
birth, and brought and bred in this culture, which has a rich background 
and history on the topic of kundalini. A lot of "knowledge" normally 
mentioned by people has originated in India and its culture. I have 
thorough knowledge of what these sources of information that are quoted 
easily by a lot of people. I myself was of the same opinion re sex and k. 
I have also studied kundalini and practiced with some world reknowed 
masters of kundalini. However, after 18 years of learning with the 
kundalini I have come to know of the "true" knowledge about it. This 
knowledge is not from any suppositions or scriptures but directly from 
the Inner-Self.

	One does not need to be sexually inactive, repressed, abstained, 
celibate etc to enhance the K process. In fact in my experience, just the 
reverse is true. Repressing the sexual potential will only harm the K 
process and delay it. Sexual energy is an integral part of the K energy, 
the creatrix of the universe. There is nothing adverse, low, bad, down 
etc etc. about it. It are in fact, the man-made ideas about it that have 
been harmful to the mankind in general, and in this the typical religions 
of the world have played a great and damaging part. It is about time that 
we shed these primitive notions about sex and "evolve" to its truer and 
better understanding.

	Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening if you got this far.
Peace and LOve,
Tej


-
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: Ralph Ward 
Subject: FW: Getting Started With Kundalini

Interestingly, this sounds EXACTLY like "mindfulness" meditation, I think it's
called vihprahna or something..."breath of life" 

----------
From: 	Royale Jills[SMTP:rjillsATNOSPAMcruzio.com]
Sent: 	Friday, October 11, 1996 11:07
To: 	kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
Subject: 	Re: Getting Started With Kundalini

Brent. Hi and welcome.  I think you dont have to meditate.  You can just
sit of lay comfortable and try and breath slowly and just relax and let
your mind go blank.  Thats all there is to it!.  It works for me.
Also later on you can *****"just notice that your breath goes in and out and
keep your mind on that only.*****"
  Try it. Love Royale
-


Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: asanas for celibacy (long)

I think it was Dan who asked me a LONG time ago to post some yoga poses i
had found that are supposed to help rechannel sexual energy when one is
unable to have an outlet for it. I finally found the book (in a mess of
renovations) so here they are"

taken from :Ashtange Yoga Primer by Baba Hari Dass

NOBILITY POSE (Bhadrasans)

Sit on the gloo. Bring soles of fett together, clasp hands around feet, and
pull heels in as close to the body as possible. Inhale slowly and press
knees down toward floor, keeping spine, neck and head in a straight line.
Hold breath in pose.  (i breathe through it usually) Concentrate on ajna
chakra. Exhale slowly and release.

Benefits: Relieves urinary disorders and sciatic pain; keeps the kidneys,
prostate, bladder and ovaries functioning properly; strengthens the
reproductive glands and aids in celibacy. Recommended for women, as it
helps regulate the mentsrual cycle; also recommended during pregnancy

I have used the above pose for a meditation pose as well, and it works nicely.

LEG TWIST POSE (Kandapidasana)
-
Sit with left heel pulled close to the body and grab right foot with both
hands. Inhale and pull right foor toward the navel, keeping right knee on
floor. Hold breath in pose; then exhale slowly while lowering foot. Do
twice; then reverse legs and repeat. Next raise both feet together.

Benefits: Gives strength and flexibility to the hips, knees, calves and
ankles ; helpful for celibacy.


COW'S HEAD POSE (Gomukhasana)

Sit with right leg floded over left lef so tight knee is above left knee.
Bring the feet toward the back, resting beside the hips. Raise right arm
overhead and bend the elbow so that the hand hangs down behind back. Put
left hand behind back and grasp right hand. Inhale slowly and stretch by
pulling up with right arma nd down iwth left arm. Hold breath in pose,
keeping spine, neck and head straight. Exhae slowly, reversing legs and
arms, and repeat on other side. Note: those who cannot clasp hands may hold
a sock inthe uper hand and grab the other end of sock with lower hand,
-
Benefits: Stregthens the spine, aids in celibacy, helps remove muscualr
pains inthe back and shoulders, cures abdominal weaknesses and alleviates
indigestion and insomnia.


ADEPT'S POSE (Siddhasana)

Sit with legs crosses. Men should place elft heel under testicales and life
the right foot onto left thigh, with right heel restin on the genitals
(directl over the left heel). Women should place left heel in front of anus
, right heel on top of left. Keep head, neck and spine in a straight line
and breathe naturally. Note: this pose is hightly recommended for
meditation.

Benefits: Calms the mind, helps in celibacy, and pushes prana into sushumna.


TOE BALANCE POSE (Padangushthasana)

Crouch down, balancing on the toes. Sit on right heel, raising left foot to
place it on top of right thigh. Place palms together in front of chest,
fingers poiting upward. Fix the gaze on the tip of the nose. Inhale and
hold breath while balancing in the pose; then exhale, switch legs, and
repeat.

Benefits: Tones the reproductive glands; aids in celibacy; strengthens the
mind; increases memory; and strengthens the ankels, legs and spine


hope this all helps. the book itself has great photos (i hope i don't get
into any sort of coyright trouble by copying out the descriptions though).

enjoy and blessed be

Lia



Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: No compromise with kundalini etc.

>        One does not need to be sexually inactive, repressed, abstained,
>celibate etc to enhance the K process. In fact in my experience, just the
>reverse is true. Repressing the sexual potential will only harm the K
>process and delay it. Sexual energy is an integral part of the K energy,
>the creatrix of the universe. There is nothing adverse, low, bad, down
>etc etc. about it. It are in fact, the man-made ideas about it that have
>been harmful to the mankind in general, and in this the typical religions
>of the world have played a great and damaging part. It is about time that
>we shed these primitive notions about sex and "evolve" to its truer and
>better understanding.
>
>        Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening if you got this far.
>Peace and LOve,
>Tej

here here. i think that the reason western culture is down on sex is
because they are afraid of the energy this brings into the world. sex is
healing, beautiful and helps one join the universe.

but i think you said it better, Tej.

blessed be

lia



-
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: "Go Forward!"

BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> Maybe 10 years ago I remember meditating (reclining position) and I
> had the sensation of the room and the bed spinning around me. I tried to
> meditate through this feeling to no avail. I had to stop and sit up. This
> happened several times throughout the year until finally I guess I worked
> through it. Just curious about what your feelings on that would be. I haven't
> had that sensation since then.
> 
> Peace.....Kathleen

Hello, Kathleen.

The spin might be the kundalini energy rising. By saying you had tried
to
"meditate through this feeling" did you also try to surrender into the
spin? If so, then the spin will increase. At each stage, there are two
possibilities open to one: surrender or resist. If you surrender, the
spin becomes faster.

Listen to a story:
"A holy man once said to a woodsman, while pointing to a forest, 'Go
forward!' So the woodsman went into the forest, and found a lush grove
of valuable sandalwood trees. He stayed there, and chopped down many of
the prized trees. As he finished, he was about to turn back home, but
remembered what the holy man had told him: 'Go forward!' He hadn't said
to go only so far. So he continued deeper in the forest, and lo! he
found
a silver mine. After gathering up a load of silver, he continued deeper
into the forest, and in turn discovered a gold mine, and troves of rare
gems. In this way, he became very wealthy."  --paraphrasing Sri
Ramakrishna

As Jesus said: "He who seeks to save his life shall lose it, while he who
loses his live for My sake shall find it."
-


Date: Sun, 13 Oct 96 
From: "PHUOC NGUYEN" 
Subject: RE: kundalini (Vietnamese way) 4

From: 	BlueSky876ATNOSPAMaol.com
Sent: 	Saturday, October 12, 1996 6:37 PM
To: 	kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
Subject: 	Re: kundalini (Vietnamese way) 4

To Nguyen
I have been meditating over 20 years. I have a question that maybe you could
answer. Maybe 10 years ago I remember meditating (reclining position) and I
had the sensation of the room and the bed spinning around me. I tried to
meditate through this feeling to no avail. I had to stop and sit up. This
happened several times throughout the year until finally I guess I worked
through it. Just curious about what your feelings on that would be. I haven't
had that sensation since then.[...]
------:-)
When you meditate for the first time, your mind become calm. As the sea, the 
mind have two part: the superficial side and the deeper side. At this time, 
your superficial thought is almost calm (-). In the other side, your 
subconscious is still waving (+).

Those negative (your thoughts) and positive (your subconscious)  powers create 
inside of your body a kind of magnetism that does not match with the direction 
of the magnetism field in your house or room.

Because of your very sensible system nervous, you have this spinning feeling.

Like you navigate against the wind, It hard! In my experience it is a waste 
time [ I spend 15 years (1968- 1983) fighting with those feelings and can not 
progress just one step].

So if you have again those feelings just turn clockwise 45 degree at a time. 
Until you feel stable and safe.

Feel free to ask, thank again!
----phuoc nguyen :-)