kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 183 

Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Kundalini, anyone?


Dear listmembers,
-
Recently I got a call from my ex-wife.  We have been apart for three years,
and were together for seven years before that.  Without going into too much
detail, over the last year I have been able to "let go" of the things she
used over me.  The result was/is that now I am able to perceive her clearly.
 Our fundamental differences of orientation and consciousness are apparent.

In the call, I was able to really hear the content behind her words.  And
they pictured a person who views the world as heading inexorably towards
chaos and destruction on every front - physical, moral, spiritual.  A system
of rules is the only protection.  It is like the little boy with the finger
in the dike.  Hence not only must she for the good of the world hold to the
system, it is incumbent that *everyone* fall in line.  Since many people 
(including myself) don't follow this ethical system and world view - there
is great frustration and a myriad of perceived injustices.  As such a person
might put it, "There is a principle involved here.  You must admit that this
or that action is wrong."  This is what might be termed the "right and
wrong" orientation.

>From my perspective, I see everything and everyone as part of a coherent,
meaningful whole.  We don't need to be aware of our own place to be
contributing.  It all works.  Good, bad, right, wrong have very real but
temporal meanings.  Any effort to force, or push towards a given "right" or
"good" cause, in my opinion, will only serve to amplify the opposite forces,
as well.  To increase the positive on a personal and collective sense, we
need to manifest the characteristics and attitudes we want to see.  It
sounds simplistic - yet nevertheless it is a very powerful axiom.  So
between my ex-wife's powerful drive to create "right" and "justice" in the
world, and my belief that no lasting good quality can be forced - there is
very little basis for communication or understanding.
-
I bring this personal experience up for one reason.  It seems that we have
the very same conflict here on the kundalini list.  On the one hand, some
here have the idea that G-d is of the "right and wrong" mentality, and hence
waiting for people to fall (i.e. sin, kill babies, have sex with children,
fill in the worst you can imagine) so that he can destroy us eternally. 
Some who hold this view don't even want to wait for G-d's condemnation. 
They are ready to flame and heap guilt upon any who even seem to imply that
they are for such things.  On the other hand, others on the list are living
from a quite different perspective.  "We," they might say, "as individuals
are experiencing kundalini awakenings of one sort or another as part of
humanity's and the world's forward motion towards a new and higher level of
awareness and life."  To these individuals, life is not about "good" or
"bad".  The "bad guy" is not the person who has a different orientation, but
rather it is that force of "resistance" inside ourselves.

This, to me, is the conflict we are witnessing.  It is between two
completely different consciousnesses.  On the one hand are those on the list
who are fighting for "good".  To the other side, their behavior appears
doomed to failure.  For the other side sees life responding not so much to
words and ideas, though these are important, but actions, and attitudes, and
"fruits of the spirit" such as love, and tolerance, compassion, and
understanding.

This second group is not very interested in harsh diatribes for or against
abortion.  Condemnation of people with different sex habits only brings to
mind awareness of how restricted your system of "right and wrong" must be.  
 Not because it's "bad".  But because it has shut out so much of what is in
this broad, full, glorious, bloody, dirty, alive and  "incompressibly
complex" world.
-
I don't condemn my ex-wife.  But when she calls on the phone to pass
judgement on me, I wonder what it is - if anything - that I could be doing
to attract this sort of thing to myself.

And what about us on this list?  Are we really acting "respectfully" towards
each other?  What are we doing - if anything - to exacerbate our differences?
  Is it possible for us to find some common ground?

I don't know.  But I have hopes.
-
Richard

  

--
Whenever you get there, there's no there there.
Gertrude Stein


-
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 
From: phuoc nguyen 
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

Hi. I am new. Having  self-practicing kundalini for a while. If you are
interested in the Viet Nam way please e-mail me. Forgive about my very bad
English.


-
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

At 02:01 PM 10/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>This, to me, is the conflict we are witnessing.  It is between two
>completely different consciousnesses.  On the one hand are those on the list
>who are fighting for "good".  To the other side, their behavior appears
>doomed to failure.  For the other side sees life responding not so much to
>words and ideas, though these are important, but actions, and attitudes, and
>"fruits of the spirit" such as love, and tolerance, compassion, and
>understanding.

Well Richard, there are probably more than two groups here. I would say at
least 3 or 4. the third group sees the first as being "wrong" or "bad", the
forcing of their ideas and ideals on others as unconscionable. Perhaps these
are part of the second group, but far be it from me to label. And the fourth
group opts out of the first two completely, perhaps somewhat part of the
third. These see that something is missing in all these views, and long for
something "more" and feel the views of the second of "humanity" are too
self-limiting, they struggle through kundalini having nothing more than some
"higher" purpose, beyond simple humanity (if such can be said to be simple).
The fourth group may be the furthest along the kundalini experiences, if
such can be said about such.

For some reason when i read your email I got some sort of sense that it was
somehow analogous to seeing some sort of racial differences. the groups,
black, white and asian? i dont mean to imply your message was an analogy to
a racial problem, but that's almost what seems to have happened to the list,
as you say.
group one is almost like the whites, the catholics or christians, group two
are different. again I dont want to say I am implying anything here, just a
weird analogy that popped into my head for some reason.

maybe that's the key there. man fears that which is different. man destroys
that which he doesnt understand. it's always that way... "shoot first, ask
questions later". there is so much in your society that proves this is the
way we deal with the unknown. the unknown is to be feared, it is to be
destroyed. and, if aliens do exist, is it any wonder they dont visit us?
what would be the governments first response to a REAL ufo showing up, and
obvious approach? kill it! burn it! destroy it! this is all man knows how to do.

Reminds me of a song: "shoot the one's whose point of view makes a point
that bothers you" (Peter Schilling - "Error In The System" Song: "Let's Play
USA").

I am a mixture of the third and fourth groups trying to be free of the
"shackles" of humanity. tired of the human bickering and fighting. maybe we
need aliens so we can unite into world peace and fight the "common" enemy.
-
what a sad state of affairs. well I came out of my lurking just long enough
to post this, I think I'll go away and hide again, no doubt I'll have a few
flames sent to my email box. maybe someday the world will be a better place.
heck we have 1209 days remaining... 
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



-
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

The Parable of the Tribes

Imagine a series of tribes living peacefully in the same region. No weapons,
no wars.

Then imagine when one tribe picks up arms. What happens to the rest? They
are forced to pick up weapons to defend themselves.

It seems like for most of time, we k people have coexisted peacefully here,
a mixture of people sharing stories, even secrets, of our k expriences.
Respecting differences, learning, learning to love our unique differences as
well as our similarities.

And then in come the attacks, forcing up into camps, labels- group ones and
twos, blacks, whites, asians, whatever. 
-
I don't consider myself in any camp. I have not attacked anyone. I asked if
inner/outer integration was important to other people with k. For this I get
email on killing babies.

I have also gotten mail from others who are intimidated to talk anymore. And
I will tell you all: that until the attacking people are asked to leave, all
of us are forced to bear weapons. 

There must be a standard that we live up to, a standard of respect and
kindness. We must ask also: how can this standard be enforced, while
honoring the principles of free speech?

I myself am on the very verge of leaving, not becuase I don't like the list,
becuase I love this list, and have been here since day 1...it's just that I
don't want to engage in attack mentality. There is too much of it already in
the world. 

If there is a beuatiful garden inhabited by ferocious dogs, I will seek
another garden.
-
In love and sadness, traveler



Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: "Michael J. Davis" 
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

At 02:27 AM 10/9/96 -0700, traveler wrote:
>I have also gotten mail from others who are intimidated to talk anymore. And
>I will tell you all: that until the attacking people are asked to leave, all
>of us are forced to bear weapons. 
>
Please Patti, you are comparing apples to oranges here. Sure, if someone on
the street attacks you with a weapon, you may be forced to pick one up in
return or face loosing your own life. However, this isn't the material
world...it's cyberspace. Being that, you have the largest nuclear weapon in
the world...THE DELETE KEY. If someone misreads or misunderstands what you
type and starts flaming you...DELETE THE DAMN THING!
-
I have been involved with the Internet since college ('86 grad). This was
way before WWW and all the now fancy trimmings. All you had was e-mail, a
few lists and newsgroups. When someone popped up spouting at the mouth,
people attempted to reason with them. If that did not work, they were
ignored. Once ignored, it did not take them very long to either o away on
their own or they just shut up because what they desired as a response from
what they were saying did not happen.

Just the other day on another list that I subscribe to, a person made a post
that most list members thought was out of context for the prescribed goals
of the list. A bunch of people went nuts...so far there have been at least
40 posts on the group about that subject.  None from the offender. 40! Had
those people kept their hands quiet, that would be 40 less messages that the
rest of us have to delete. Had they just ignore the post, nothing past the
offensive one would be seen by the group.

>There must be a standard that we live up to, a standard of respect and
>kindness. We must ask also: how can this standard be enforced, while
>honoring the principles of free speech?
->

Impossible...to have free speech means by its very nature that you will have
those that say unpopular thins and offend people. That is why it was made a
law...sometimes it may not be popular, but it needs to be said. Everyday the
limits and boundaries of this are tested...as a matter of fact, we have a
major lawsuit going on here in Houston now between a news channel and a
former mayoral candidate.

As I stated in another post. If someone offends you short of requiring a
post to the group to restore your "good name", ignore them and delete the
message. Or, if you must, reply via private e-mail. Lastly, et some thinker
skin (everyone).  They are e-mail messages. They can't hurt you!

Michael
*******************************
Michael J. Davis
Independent Network Consultant
mjdavisATNOSPAMcompassnet.com
PGP Public Key Available Upon Request
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, most just pick
themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened."
                     - Winston Churchill



Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: Ronald Paniagua 
Subject: tecnical mail
-
Beloved Richard:
refering to the last mail "this morning" which caused such problems,
the tecnic said "look at the time": This was 06:56 this morning,
when I was totally at sleep, at least with my physical boody and
there was  n o  w a y  "I" sent an e-mail to the llist at this time.
But when I came to my computer at 10:00, i could get no access to
our server, I called them and they told me, that due to tecnical
problems access would take about an hour to come again. I think
INFONET here made a real disater with outgoing and icomming e-mail
this morning. (had some other e-mails from unknown people excusing
of unetical stuff).
So please report if there are any more tecnical problems.
Love and Light for you
Antaris
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py



Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: Ronald Paniagua 
Subject: Yes, we are able to find comon ground

To all:
Donīt tell about LOVE,  m a k e it, make it in the bed, make it
for kundalini-expiriences and maake it on the list! Understand,
that we are all ONE, and when we hate, and disagree, we hate
ourselfes and disagrre with ourselfes.
How to do it in practice?
Donīt mention the points you donīt like give them into the 
violette-flame of purification, and take only the clear, pure
energy back to you.
Love simply IS,
Antaris
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py



Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 
From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

There are definitely more than just two groups out here.  I'll place 
myself in the one which doesn't see a title, a group, etc.  I'll view 
each person individually and watch their actions as they are much more 
important than words.  It is very easy to speak the words of that which 
we believe and which we follow.  It's quite another at times to 'live' 
that which we speak.  Please don't get me wrong.  I realize there will be 
mistakes made along the way.  The important thing is what we do once we 
make one.  Do we acknowledge it and try to do better the next time or do 
we just shrug it off and continue to do it?  Yes, I think I'll just watch 
the actions because that, in my opinion, is where the heart truly is.

Thanks for your words Richard.  I hope they open the eyes and hearts of 
others on this list.

Blessed Be

Debee

-

Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

To turn the other cheek is still unheard of? unpopular? never considered?
How strange.  

My favorite way to deal with attacks, if I don't, like a knee jerking,
defend myself, or maybe attack the attacker, or if I don't think I should
out-intellectualize them, in other words, on a few rare occasions, my
favorite way to deal with attacks is to turn the other cheek while laughing
my fool head off at how silly it all is  r e a l l y !  I just love it when
that happens.
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



-
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Yes, we are able to find comon ground

Yes, I agree with you 100%. Let's hear it for love!
Love is the k-frequency that really works for me, too.


I love this list and all my experiences. Thank you all.
-
Traveler



Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Definition of Humanity

>To: "Michael J. Davis" 
>From: Mary Knapp 
>
>At 12:00 PM 10/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>
> Changing your thinking will in
>>turn change your perspective on things in life. If one is "one with nature"
>>and doesn't want animals killed or in suffering, support or advocation of
>>abortion *could* indicate a shortcoming in the process. 
>
>
->
>What?
>
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

>It seems like for most of time, we k people have coexisted peacefully here,
>a mixture of people sharing stories, even secrets, of our k expriences.
>Respecting differences, learning, learning to love our unique differences as
>well as our similarities.
>
>And then in come the attacks, forcing up into camps, labels- group ones and
>twos, blacks, whites, asians, whatever.
>I myself am on the very verge of leaving, not becuase I don't like the list,
>becuase I love this list, and have been here since day 1...it's just that I
>don't want to engage in attack mentality. There is too much of it already in
>the world.
>
>If there is a beuatiful garden inhabited by ferocious dogs, I will seek
>another garden.
>
>In love and sadness, traveler

you said it all, traveler. i've been mostly refusing to post because there
has been some pretty violent and inane conversation going on here. i've
only been on the list about a month but found it a beautiful and friendly
place.

can we try to all work together to make it that way again?

i think refusing to answer inane posts would be a good beginning, or else
email these poeple personally if you REALLY have something to say to them.
leave it out of the list.

thanks in advance

Lia



Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re:VietNam K.

Hi, and welcome. I would like to hear K. from the VietNam perspective.
Royale



Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 
From: susanmayATNOSPAMdigital.net
Subject: Re: Trusting the process

Ori wrote:
-
>>It starts again
I can barely sleep at night
or only in short doses
My palms and soles burn and burn
Coffee no longer tastes good
I drink water and more water
I run water over my hands
I massage my palms, almost frantically 
seeking relief for the hands 
which must work with typing
I can barely sit still,
as if I'm crawling out of my skin
so I take a break and walk and walk
trying to ground,
remembering at the last moment people talking
about placing the tongue on the roof of the mouth
So I try this, and I think also about mudras
knowing I am at work and must keep... choose to keep
this process on the private side.
Unfortunately (or not) the process does not hold
"normal" rigid working hours.

>>Maybe it is good it is building again to this intensity
I hope it is a sign of a breakthrough right around the corner
And yet I know it is best to hold no expectations

>>At least this is a change in the cycle...
Where is it leading me?
Sometimes it is so hard to trust the process.
-
My sentiments exactly...two weeks ago.  I was all wound up and now I am like a 
spring that has sprung, a cork that has popped.  Then, I couldn't sleep, 
couldn't talk to people, was burning up, etc etc.  I was going bonkers (on 
some level) and isolated myself almost completely so no one would know the 
strangeness of what I am going through in my k process.

After another breakthrough\blockage removal:  I feel like I am spineless...a 
jellyfish, a protozoa or a plankton.  I'm loose, like a dam has broken.  A lot 
of solid gunk has been dislodged from the sediment at the bottom of the river 
and I am once-more more free-flowing like a high-waterline river rushing 
onwards to the sea.  Sometimes, I want to have the k process to go faster just 
to get it over with but it is like some kind of dance where I have not learned 
all the steps or keep forgetting them.  

Ori, I just have to remind myself how quickly things change.  Your prose helps 
me witness a facet of the changing river that I am.  I witness the dammed up 
river and then the flowing river both representing the energy of who I am and 
try to remember only one thing...to keep letting go. 

Namaste and trusting in our processing,
Sue  



Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 
From: susanmayATNOSPAMdigital.net
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

Richard, you wrote,
-
>>I don't condemn my ex-wife.  But when she calls on the phone to pass
judgement on me, I wonder what it is - if anything - that I could be doing
to attract this sort of thing to myself.

>>And what about us on this list?  Are we really acting "respectfully" towards
each other?  What are we doing - if anything - to exacerbate our differences
?  Is it possible for us to find some common ground?

>>I don't know.  But I have hopes.
-
Richard, I appreciated your excellent descriptions of the two different 
"groups".  When I'm in the level of waking awareness that requires addressing 
the duality, I have to say, I most likely fall in the same group as you.  In 
this world, I see an ever-increasing move towards polarization of opposites.  
The best way I can deal with it all is to raise my conscious awareness to the 
level of non-duality through meditation and then there is no "other" other 
than myself.  That seems to solve it, however, it's hard to stay in a 
meditative-like state in the everyday world.  

Perhaps, the deeper question I have to ask myself is am I acting respectfully 
to myself?  If I can remember to do that I know we can find commom ground 
because at the higher level, there is no distance between us.  I, too, have 
hopes. 

Apple pie in the sky, high hopes,
ATNOSPAMSue

"It is impossible to preserve a self-image and reach any depth in spiritual 
work."
Spiritual Cannabilism  by  Rudi



Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 
From: "Brent Blalock" 
Subject: Getting Started With Kundalini

I read a book once in which the author described having a kundalini
awakening-type experience.  I thought, "My that's interesting.  That sounds
fun."

So I looked up information and checked out books from the library about
kundalini awakening and I found several books.  I tried to get started
doing the exercises the books described, and I made some progress.  But I
soon got frustrated with how little progress I was making.

For example, one of the books told me to sit cross-legged for five minutes
and concentrate only on my breathing.  It was almost unbearable - the
boredom and the discomfort.  People have described meditation as being a
pleasurable experience, but I'm having trouble doing it, let alone enjoying
it.

Now and again, I'll feel really inspired by some book I read and will try
to make some more progress and occasionally succeed, but after a while I
lose that motivation and stop.

I'm lookin' for some advice.  What did you people do to get started in the
very beginning?  Did you notice any progress that occurred right away?  Any
suggestions?
-
Thanks.



Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

Richard Satin wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear listmembers,
> 

> 
Thank you Richard for sharing about your wife and your revealation on
detachment. Your right, what we have seen here is nothing but a powerful
example of the swing of the forces, can anyone observe the emotions, the
thoughts, anger, frustration, and at the same time the desperation to
somehow understand what is happening. In spite of the pretty harsh
things getting thrown about, this is nothing more then an example of the
lower centers getting stirred up, suggestion. Those who do not like the
G word, stop here. 

"Be Still and Know I Am God." Go within, reverberate at the same
frequency as these words. Really understanding that God allows both good
and evil to manifest because it is a part of the dance, it is a very
necessary part of the experience. We can't know the frequency and
vibrations of words and thoughts backed up with emotion, if we don't
experience them and even sometimes get caught up and project them. This
is growth and learning, once through the experience however, all that is
necessary is that you are willing to surrender and let go. Each time
this process is successful more light is brought into every aspect of
your being. And, peace comes from the letting go and returning to
knowing. Let's know that words, thoughts, emotions and anger are all
illusions. The one power we have going here is love. If love is here we
will overcome all the hurt and pain because the only thing that will
have any meaning whatsoever is love. Nobody can judge another person for
where they are, it just simply is. The test is to love, forgive, and
accept. Can we do that as a unit, deeply centered on Divine Love in the
knowing that this is God's Will for us. Love to All, Gloria



Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center

phuoc nguyen wrote:
> 
> Hi. I am new. Having  self-practicing kundalini for a while. If you are
interested in the Viet Nam way please e-mail me. Forgive about my very bad
English.
Phuoc,
HI, Welcome to the list, and of course we are interested in your
sharing, please be comfortable we all make spelling mistakes and grammar
as well, it is meaningless. God Bless, Gloria


-
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Kundalini, anyone?

traveler wrote:
> 
> The Parable of the Tribes
> 
> Imagine a series of tribes living peacefully in the same region. No weapons,
> no wars.
> 
> Then imagine when one tribe picks up arms. What happens to the rest? They
> are forced to pick up weapons to defend themselves.
> 
> It seems like for most of time, we k people have coexisted peacefully here,
> a mixture of people sharing stories, even secrets, of our k expriences.
> Respecting differences, learning, learning to love our unique differences as
> well as our similarities.
> 
> And then in come the attacks, forcing up into camps, labels- group ones and
> twos, blacks, whites, asians, whatever.
> 
> I don't consider myself in any camp. I have not attacked anyone. I asked if
> inner/outer integration was important to other people with k. For this I get
> email on killing babies.
> 
> I have also gotten mail from others who are intimidated to talk anymore. And
> I will tell you all: that until the attacking people are asked to leave, all
> of us are forced to bear weapons.
> 
> There must be a standard that we live up to, a standard of respect and
> kindness. We must ask also: how can this standard be enforced, while
> honoring the principles of free speech?
> 
> I myself am on the very verge of leaving, not becuase I don't like the list,
> becuase I love this list, and have been here since day 1...it's just that I
> don't want to engage in attack mentality. There is too much of it already in
> the world.
> 
> If there is a beuatiful garden inhabited by ferocious dogs, I will seek
> another garden.
> 
> In love and sadness, traveler

Patti,
Don't lose heart this is the test and the illusion. Can you not see Maya
at work? Don't buy into it. Gloria