kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 180 

Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 
From: Paco 
Subject: Re: Traveler and Definition of Humanity

Traveler,
	I like what you are saying.
-	I mean, I post to the effect that sex can be healthy
and relaxing. You post that we need to be kind and gentle to
the Earth. Next someone is screaming about abortion. 

I mean, abortion, Hell, special practices, dogma, rules,
cults, surgeon generals...all the 2D people just keep screaming
as long as we are having fun. Sex is just far to powerful, free
and infinite for any authority, religious or governmental, to
not try to control it in some way.

-	Nature is completely free, evolution is completely beyond
our understanding. So is Kundalini. Computers now store DNA
codes and sequences. Computers came from within the human mind.
So, where are things going? What is nature and what is heresy?
Did women evolve to invent the abortion pill to make their lives
easier and more reasonable, or is the abortion pill the devil,
trying to stop women from making their quotas on oil workers
and soldiers? Will they burn us at metal stakes when there are
no more trees left? Fuck 'em. FUCK...EM.
later,
-		---Paco



Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: Sherry Tapke 
Subject: Re: Shri Mataji & Sahaja Yoga

Lissette wrote:
I will tell you that once your kundalini is awakened its safer to have a
guru...

Sherry here:
I am not familiar with other yoga disciplines, but with Sahaja Yoga I do
not need a guru, nor have I ever experienced "not so pleasant roller
coaster rides". I have never been threatened or frightened or felt the
need to be protected from my kundalini. The K is my mother, and I am her
only child. Listening to some of the stories on this list, I feel truly
blessed that my K was awakened through Sahaja Yoga.
-- 
In Service to the Light, I AM Sherry  (aka Marana)
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1616  (Personal)
http://home.earthlink.net/~actionagency  (Business)



Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 
From: "Alvin T. Perhacs" 
Subject: Re: Definition of Humanity

On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, davelong wrote:

> 
> Of course, there are those who feel strongly about saving the
> whales, about justice for baby seals, and for saving the marbled
> pigeon from man's insatiable greed. They cheer on the brave,
> committed environmentalists who courageously defend the lives
> of these innocents of nature. At the same time, they turn a
> blind eye to abortion. And they call themselves "humanists!"
> Go figure!
-
 
It is pretty amazing how people can justify their actions in one area 
where it relates to the environment or animals, but when it comes to 
humans it is totally different. It is just an excuse so that you can live 
a careless lifestyle and totally shirk the responsibilty of your actions, 
then after you do something like an abortion, you decide to see if you 
can save some animals since you feel quilty for killing your own baby!
  
Respectfully
- 
Al Perhacs 



Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Traveler and Definition of Humanity

Thanks for your vote of confidence.
-
I admit, I was beginning to wonder about kundalini people....

I have gotten a lot from this list. My aim on this list is to listen, to
appreciate, to learn, to grow, and to share. I have found it easiest to do
the first 4 things than the last. 

I have brought up these topics more than once. They have met with
indifference and often heavy reaction from people who have their own
cosmology. I have learned how different I am (or we are, we as in the small
minority who is open to discussing the "outer" world).

I was reflecting this morning on a sort of selfishness that seems prevalent
among many on this list--not all. 

I would have thought that with the k active, and the heart chakra activated,
there would have been more love to give others, as part of whatever other
processes were going on. More awareness, more sensitivity, more sense of our
relatedness, beneath the surface. For me, with all this excess energy, I
have found that to send the k energy out into the world is a great way to
stay sane, whole, centered, and to keep the k in balance, not become
overwhelming.

Most of the conversations have been about religious dogma of one sort or
another, about how to breathe, move, eat, think and heal techniques,
etc...all focused inward, to the self, to the ego, to the not-ego, etc.

Where is the heart in all of this? Doesn't the k open the doors of
compassion? Do people really think we "will have to make it all the way to
Nirvana before we have it together enough to put our attention on other
people and things?"

Anyway, I have been the lucky one. I appreciate everyone's contributions to
the list, they have enlarged my life tremendously, and for that I am grateful. 



Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: Shri Mataji & Sahaja Yoga
-
Lissette wrote: once kundalini...awakened...safer to have a guru...
..................................................................
Sherry wrote: not familiar with...disciplines...with Sahaja Yoga...
not need a guru... no unpleasant roller coaster rides...K is my mother
-------------------------------------------------------------------
My 2-cents worth. Just my opinion. Sherry, your awakening through 
Sahaja was a peaceful event - marvelous! Lissette, you are quoting 
others and their tradition that a guru is imperative for a 'safe' 
awakening - you got that right, the literature is full of that 
perspective. However, I am baffled by the one-dimensionality of this 
and that the illuminati on the list don't address this absolutism with 
cogent quotes and arguments. The general course seems to be my way, the 
right way, the only way. Just the terms used: mahayana, hinayana, 
'path' to enlightenment indicate a person starting out at point A, 
choosing a 'path' that works for him and following it to the same 
conclusion. I really wish more could say,"For me this works, or I find 
XYZ helpful for me, instead of your path, yoga, guru is totally wrong." 
Sorry for being testy - we often despise those things most which we 
fail to see in ourselves, eh?
-
Anyway, Sherry, Shri Mataji has said that in some even the Sahaja yoga 
awakening is tumultuous and gives her explanation why; even describes 
it as making them shake like madmen and cry out, etc. Sounds familiar 
to many of us who have been aboard that thundering train.

Lissette, inherent in your quoting the literature and tradition that a 
guru is essential is the notion that under the tutelage of guru, all 
awakenings are peaceful, and come to a carefully guided conclusion. I 
can't quote the text or author accurately, but I read Alexandra 
Rhys-Davis' (sp?) description of speaking to a yogi in Tibet while a 
short distance off a man was screaming and thrashing about on the 
ground. When she asked the yogi about what was going on, he replied 
that the man was his pupil and was in the process of wrestling with his 
own demons after having given him shaktipat. When asked if there was 
anything he could do to help him, the reply was that the demons existed 
in that man's own mind and he would have to deal with them - if 
successful, the yogi would continue to teach him. IMHO Gopi Krishna had 
some heavy-duty personal demons to exorcise and that was his problem, 
not the K-A. Introspection leads to self-examination and sometimes that 
is not so pretty - can and does lead to madness, depression, or 
self-improvement, it is up to the individual and his psyche. And will 
happen whether K-A, meditation, introspection, etc. is the trigger. 
Validation is however important and this list serves to give that in 
abundance.

Love and LAUGHING LIGHT-)
DAN-RF


-
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 
From: HowardCushATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Paradox, Jews and the Faith to Doubt

I was intrigued by the Christopher/Patti exchange and wanted to contribute.
 It was as if their voices were coming right out of my own internal dialogue.
 One part says let's be right here, right now, as bodies and beings in this
physical world, and begin the grounded process of evolution in each moment by
practicing lovingkindness with the earth and all forms of life.  The other
part says you have been initiated into a great mystical tradition and can now
see that none of this is "real" and that all your plans and causes and
strivings are part of the great illusory dance.

What if...both were true?  The more experience I have, the more I believe
that true spiritual maturity comes from being able to embrace paradox, and
ambiguity, and to become more assertive through surrender.  Surrendering to
the tao, or whatever you want to call it, seems to authenticate or align the
ego into this-world actions that are more rich and lasting.  Whether in a
meditation group or a political protest, the effect of relation and action
seems to stem most from the wholeness of the approach, the ability to live
the questions, to embrace the paradox, and the not-knowing, and somehow act
in a way that is enhanced by that rather than stymied.  

A great Buddhist writer, Stephen Batchelor, calls this approach "the faith to
doubt."  He focusses on a meditative awareness that approaches each and every
moment with full surrender, with and openness free of expectation that will
allow what it there to be truly embraced.  He says, and these words are
revolutionary to me -- "there is nothing unworthy of acceptance."

If it is, it must be accepted.  This is true for a love that stirs my heart
and a kriya that shakes my head like a rag doll and also for an environmental
criminal who spills toxics into the ocean and also for a murderer who kills
innocent children.  If I turn away, if I cannot look all these in the face
and accept them, then I am denying a major aspect of being.

The last point I want to make in this long post is about my heritage.  As a
Jew, I come from a long and glorious tradition that believes, at its core,
that it doesn't matter what you believe or what you say, but what really
matters is what you do.  There is great wisdom in this for me.  In my
experience, any great spiritul teacher or journey increases the amount of
lovingkindess in the world.  And not just through blissing out, but through
facing and accepting everything and then acting in accordance with deep love.

So the challenge for me is to fight with love and humility for the survival
of the earth, even though at the sime time I know it is only part of the
great whole.  The challenge for me is to fight injustice and inhumanity and
to offer sane and loving alternatives, while surrendering fully to the fact
that I do this for myself, to enrich my own experience, and that my very
ability to be involved in social action is not a selfless dedication to the
earth or others but a gift, to me, from all that is.

Those who turn away from the physical world are in one kind of denial.  Those
who are attached to the physical world are in another.  Paying the grocery
clerk is an encounter with the divine.  Our clothes may be made from prison
labor in China.  Our tax dollars have trained terrorists around the globe.
 Whether we want to accept it or not, we are interconnected with every living
being -- physically, politically and spiritually.  From my perspective, the
more we grow, the more we include. 

-

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: Traveler and Definition of Humanity

You wrote: Fuck 'em. FUCK...EM.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Calm down, Paco, you're going to pop a vein! Everyone sees 'God' in 
their own way - sometimes the dimensions are less, sometimes the view 
is constricted by the spectacles of their own prejudices, 
preconceptions, and personal philosophies. If I could just poke my head 
up without getting it shot off and offer my view? This world is imbued 
with a richness that many would deny. I feel it would be a mistake for 
me to deny the capability of a deity that could create the universe to 
also create sex for a wealth of purposes and ends; all of them sacred. 
To create it with a built-in diversity that would assure the survival 
and enrichment of mankind. If you don't believe in that philosophy 
about sex, how about in other areas. Sickle-cell anemia is the bane of 
the black race of Africa, yes? Granted that a number of those afflicted 
will die of the anemia, but a percentage will carry the gene 
unexpressed and will survive. Guess what? Those survivors are immune to 
malaria!!! This AWFUL diversity is really part of the richness of 
mankind. So is IMHO recreational sex, alternate sexual orientations, 
etc. I think some see sex as a locomotive; some like to ride and blow 
the whistle and others are scared they are going to be run over.

OK - everyone can beat me up now,
maybe I am into BDSM and will like it!-)
Love and LAUGHING LIGHT
and LOTS of Diversity!
DAN-RF



Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: To all

I have read so many posts since this list started and it seems quiet
right now so I want to express my feelings of love, joy and bliss to so
many of you who have written.  
Some not so friendly, but the majority or you are sensitive,
intelligent, enlightened and wonderful.  Do you know how wonderful you
are?  Please feel it and accept yourselves as wonderful.
 I can never express my feelings about you all but to say I love all of
you very much.  Royale



-
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Paradox, Jews and the Faith to Doubt

It seems quite easy to be misquoted around here.
I am not saying that the body is the road to the spirit, exclusively.

What I am saying is that spirit pervades everything, and that many people,
here and everywhere, will deny that the body is just another manifestation
of spirit.

Tantra says that life is divine, that everything is divine. This includes
all of the things Christopher talked about, and it includes the physical
domain also. There is no dividing point, except in our minds, when we deny
the divinity on the physical plane.

By the way, Carolyne Myss has just written a beautiful book called The
Anatomy of the Spirit: The Seven Stages of Power and Healing. It relates the
7 Chakras to the types of illnesses that manifest when the spirit is not fed
and the emotions are not expressed. In science, and in healing, the
mind/body/spirit connection is more and more taken as the starting point of
true healing and integration. Einstien showed that in physics, energy and
matter are two forms of the same thing. Candace Pert has shown, in medicine,
that mind and body are 2 expressions of the same thing. The world over,
people are beginning to realize that the separations have been artificial,
and that holistic thinking is more useful.

Howard, I loved what you said. I think we are in agreement....

-

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Pain and "K"

Christopher, I thought your post was very insightful, and I would like to add
a few points.

Changing foods is very effective for me when I have pain.  Usually something
in my diet is causing congestion in the head, and tuning inwards helps me see
what foods to avoid, and what to add.  It is not quite as simple as yin/yang
in my case, since I have allergies which complicates matters. But the more I
do this, the better the allergies have become.  This is probably because I am
balancing the foods better.

I also find that walking helps move the lymph around the body, cleansing it
and so helping to clear out this kind of blockage.  Walking meditations are
great for the soul too!

Ever since "K" I have gone through residual "stuff" at top speed.   I seem to
be clearing things from 21 years ago at the moment, that I was sure were over
with long ago.  These emotional and mental attitudes that hang us up, also
get grounded out through the body and are another cause of physical problems.

If I look back at the pattern over my life, I find that the most traumatic
times in dealing with old "stuff" also are the times when I experience the
biggest leaps forward in my spiritual growth.  The 2  go hand in hand.
 However there is a point where you can get beyond the suffering. 

- The Buddha spoke about detaching.  I think this is the key.  I find that one
of the big gifts of "K" for me was being able to see through the illusion of
suffering.  I can empathise better with another, help them when appropriate,
and yet do not have to take on their pain. Many of us ,because the heart
center is wide open do this unconsciously. So in a way we take on the pain of
others and transmute it through our own body.  

To avoid that it is always necessary to be the observer of ourselves, and
recognise what we are doing.  The more we can do this, the better we feel.
 If we do not, we are in danger of allowing others to utilise our energy,
rather than solving their own problems.  They do it by asking us to
physically help, but they also do it by a kind of leaching onto others
psychologically.  This is a major  problem  for empaths.---detach, detach,
detach.

I agree with you about sex being used to feed the body of light.  Some of us
after "K" actually lose all interest in sex.  This is partly because what can
compare to "k" on earth anyway?  But also if you are actively working in this
way, since the purpose of sex in nature is to produce children, we are in a
sense producing our own child, through feeding the inner self.  The child in
this case being the continuum of energy bodies in our aura.  

In fact I wonder if the UFO sex encounters are the same thing?

Love Jule



Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 
From: MDono11364ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Kundalini Masters

I am very new to these ideas, but am very interested in learning more.  Could
anyone suggest some introductory reading on the subject of kundalini and also
tell me what or who is around the New Haven, CT area (teachers, etc.)?

Mary



-
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: "Johannes B. Tuemmers" 
Subject: Re: k problems

Dan Gahlinger wrote:

> so I'd have to say that I'd have to meet one of these "masters" to truly
> see if they measure up as it were. so far I'm not impressed.
> Dan.
-
That's interesting. I remember reading Pandit Gopi Krsna's book and was
puzzled that he couldn't find a person who could help him with his
K-problems.

I have to confess that I am some sort of specialist bornč (or one-track
specialist) in terms of the indo-tibetan buddhist tradition. So please
excuse my ignorance about other traditions and discussions which took
place on this list before.

You may know, too, that in the buddhist highest Yoga Tantras, there is
extensive use of technics which relate to kundalini. In this context, I
know about the importance of a truly experienced and qualified teacher
who guides the student through the different stages of these trainings.
However, no such qualified teacher would give these technics to students
who do not have sound experience in meditation abilities (like
singlepointed concentration and analytical meditation capabilities) a
strong ability and correct understanding of the middle-way-view,
emptiness, plus a very compassionate heart and the wish to attain the
highest goal for the benefit of all sentient beeings. In other words, it
is stressed, that those energies, like the 'fierce woman' (caa.n.dalii)
or inner heat (gtum-mo), are only then applied and roused, when there is
a solid fundament.

One of the results of these technics in the tibetan tradition is the
(meanwhile well known) phenomenon of the 'Tulku' (sprul-sku, or
nirmaa.nakaaya), i.e. the consciously or controlled reborn Lama. One of
the best known Tulkus are the Dalai Lama, the Karmapa or the Panchen
Lama. In that context, there are texts with very clear descriptions of
the processes taking place during death and how the winds and drops
residing in the cannels are absorbed. 

So far, I would subscribe to the great importance of a master, teacher
or guide and his/her selfless motivation to be of benefit for the
student _before_ there is experience of the energy-flows.

Is there any knowledge of any scientific research in this subject? I
shall post the information of the Institute where they do research on
Biofeedback and Kundalini-phenomenons in Autria with my next mail. 

with all best wishes,

stay well, take care,

Johannes


-- 
Johannes B. Tuemmers

jb.tuemmersATNOSPAMuni-koeln.de
http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/jtjt2.htm