kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 179 

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: pain & sex energy

Coming from the perspective of traditions very different from that of k
I found the posts on pain and sex interesting, but limited. Without, I
hope, upsetting anyone who may well have felt themselves to have been
dragged over (red hot) coals by their experiences with k may I suggest
the question of the causes of pain is more complex than the posts
suggest. 

Energy blockages which can be intense enough to be mistaken for physical
illness are the most obvious cause of pain, I suspect we all recognise
this even if for the most part all one can do is wait until the blockage
burns it's self out. In this group I would include the head pains and
others which were the subject of a recent post. The only cure I found
for these was either to switch polarity with my meditations or do a
short diet of heavy foods, especially red meat, if one can accept it. By
switching polarity I mean yin or negative energy meditations, for
example breathing out and holding your breath instead of breathing in
and positively charging your self. This level of pain is reasonably
obvious and experimentation often finds a solution, or you just accept
it and carry on with life.

What is not obvious is where the energy centres get involved. Energy
centres by their very nature are energy and while this energy may
produce problems when moving around the body it cannot be said to be
blocked when in it's own centre. However the centres do it seems grow or
evolve and in this they appear to be linked to ones life style and
circumstances, karma, if you like. I know within european traditions
that those who start out on the path find that during the first two
years or so their karma seems to speed up and all sorts of things happen
to them. After that, for most people things settle down or they leave
whatever group they have joined and get on with life. It is as if all
the experiences one may have expected in a normal life span are speeded
up when you turn to your inner being and say Hit Me. The pain that goes
with this kind of karma is, I believe, part of the whole package and
cannot be avoided. 

The other side of energy centre activity is their effect on emotional
development. The long slow melancholy moods that come out of nowhere
are, for me at least, the gate to inner growth. This kind of emotional
pain should be welcomed as it is ones key to being able to withstand the
often run away effect of a centre when it becomes fully active. I can
give two different examples. I friend of mine had an experience so 30
years ago which has coloured his whole life, as part of the growth from
that time he found one day that he was bored, something which had never
happened to him before. No matter what he did he could not shake the
boredom, so he gave up trying, he elected to be bored with everything
all the time. After a couple of weeks the mood went and has never
returned. The point is that our inner life needs, for whatever reason,
experiences which are dark as well as those of light, pain may be part
of this. 

The energy from any one of the centres can flood your sense of identity,
your ego or I.  While this feels great, knowing how to bring your self
down to earth is also important if one is not to be carried away by the
energy of the moment. One way to do this is to sink into the appropriate
negative mood. My example is that I sometimes get swept along by what I 
think of as the energy of the heart centre. To slow things down to a
point where I can be objective I will sink into a melancholy which to me
is bitter/sweet. The point is this gives one the means to balance light
and dark and keep one's self pointing more or less in the direction one
wish to go. 

One last comment on sex. If k is part of evolution may I point out you
are not your body. The physical evolves through evolution and sex is
part of that line of growth. The inner you just lives in the form
provided and grows through experiences which I would suggest need to be
integrated some how into your core. Traditions from some parts of the
world direct one to develop in a Body of Light, an inner vehicle with
which to allow the conscious part of you a different mode of expression,
this I suggest is the evolution to which k belongs, not the physical
body. In India the technique to do this is called among other things the
Backward Flowing Method. In other words one turns one's energy inward to 
feed the formless, I fail to see how one can spend ones energy twice and
feed both form and formless modes of evolution at the same time.
Christopher Williams  



Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: k and evolution

re: pain and sex energy:
-
Christopher, Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I must beg to differ from you, respectfully.

You have theories about the interaction of the body and the mind and the
spirit, as evidenced by your kind description of ways in which to manipulate
these things. You seem to suggest that certain things you do with your body,
such as breathing and bends, help you evolve, while other things, like sex,
don't.
-
I am from a different tradition that does not make lots of little boxes. The
body and the mind are one, the body and the spirit are one, etc....just
different forms.
 
I cannot take my scissors and snip off the little parts that look
inconvenient or lesser. I look to integrate, not segregate.

And so my point, maybe what we need to survive on this planet Now at this
point in time, is Integration, not Segregation. What may have worked great
for India or most of time elsewhere is not necessarily what we need now. We
need to live in our time and our place. We are here now and our planet is in
grave danger.

I believe the k is rising spontaneously in many people, becuase unless there
is a mass universal consciousness shift, our planet will de destroyed.

This is not a polite theory. In 50 years, we will have eroded the soil on
the planet past the point of being able to grow crops. Try doing your
backward bends when you haven't eaten for a month.
-
The forests will be gone, they give our planet oxygen. Try doing your
breathing exercises without oxygen!

The ozone hole is getting huge. The cancerous materials are growing
everywhere. The coral reefs are dying. The species are becoming extinct.

If I were a supreme entity or even an evolved soul looking to reincarnate, I
would be much more concerned with having somewhere to come to that as to
whether people "evolve" spiritually. To me, that is a more self-centered
activity. I know people who medidtate to save the earth. Even this is a step
in the right direction, and bless them, but...unless there is a mass global
shift in consciousness, it is already too late. We are losing the war. And
it is not about protesting at a logging site to stop. We must be honoring
all the time, so that we see the atrocties happening everywhere. This theory
that the phsycial level is unimportant is pervasive, and comes at great
expense to our planet, as well as to our women, animals, and even to other
people, who are not felt to be as good, if they somehow do not believe the
same ideolgies as another wasnts them to think.

We must see the connectedness of all beings, us to one antoher, to the
oceans and soil and to Gaia--and live out of this awareness. We must
integrate our own consciousnesses and by our example inspire others to do
the same. We must honor our bodies if we are to honor our mother planet.
Like that. We must not separate into little boxes. That is how atrocities
are committed. It isn't us, somehow...it is them. Except wait a minute, we
ALL live here.

THere is nothing wrong with having a goal of spiritual evolution. Unless, of
course, you are planning on coming back to this earth, and want a nice,
lush, beautiful planet, like the one you used to know. 

Thanks for listening.



Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: pain & sex energy

What a great post. Thank you.  We needed that.  At least I did.  My current
bad mood seems easier to take and more likely to be of some benefit in the
long run. Can you suggest some readings that might be helpful in achieving
the kind of balance you display here?  What other traditions' perspective  a
r e  you coming from?  It seems quite different and more practical than most
I've looked at. TIA


At 04:11 PM 10/6/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Coming from the perspective of traditions very different from that of k
>I found the posts on pain and sex interesting, but limited. Without, I
>hope, upsetting anyone who may well have felt themselves to have been
>dragged over (red hot) coals by their experiences with k may I suggest
>the question of the causes of pain is more complex than the posts
>suggest. 
>[snipped]

		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling

-

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: k and evolution-part 2

Just wanted to clarify:

No I am not an environmental organizer. That's part of the problem right there.

I think of the fact that for most of time, people lived in harmony with the
planet. We took from her, we gave back. One of the laws of nature is to
never kill more than is needed.

The Native American cultures had a beautiful cosmology in which the earth
was sacred, animals had spirits, had gifts to teach us. The land was alive,
the trees were alive, the winds could talk to us. This is the type of
integration that I am speaking of. The earth was hononed and thanked for her
fruits. The Celts had such a cosmology as well. I am sure there are many-
and that many more were wiped out in religious purges by the dominant
religions, past the point of recognition.

There is no need for environmental activism when the consciousness is such.

Sad, how in the last 1000 years or so, when the "white man" took over, he
brought in specialization and separation. Some people were better than
others,work was better than play, or rest, men better than women, god better
than man, ...all separate. This attitiude marks the beginning of the most
devastating decline the earth has known.

I am not a Native American Indian, and don't think I could ever be one. Too
much of my culture is in me, already. I just see that it is this type of
attitude that will be needed if we are to turn around the forces that are
currently creating such wholesale and massive planetary destruction. And
that the k, at least for me, begs me to integrate. That is the message I get
most powerfully.



Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: ECOLOGY was: k and evolution-part 2

To have such strong concerns for the environment is, to me, a placement of
attention on the effect rather than the cause.  Much of the environmental
retoric that is so popular nowadays begins to seem such reactionary group
think> the likes of which the planet has not seen since the WE vs. THEM
positionality of the Cold War days.  Same methods, different cause.

With spiritual, ethical and conscious behavior the planet will get cleaned
up.  Those who expend their energy pointing out the darkness would be better
off just BEING the Light.   IMHO



At 09:46 AM 10/6/96 -0700, traveler wrote:
>Just wanted to clarify:
>
>No I am not an environmental organizer. That's part of the problem right there.
>[snipped]
-
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Re: k and evolution

In message ,
traveler  writes
>re: pain and sex energy:
[snip]
>I must beg to differ from you, respectfully.
>
>I am from a different tradition that does not make lots of little boxes. The
>body and the mind are one, the body and the spirit are one, etc....just
>different forms.

I must admit I've had this response before in the form that it's all so
simple and I shouldn't complicate it. I'm now in my 50's and have spent
the last 30 years looking for some way to understand the structure of
the non-physical side of human existance. To claim as traveler does that
we should just roll it all up into one big ball and be blind to
experience is, to me, unacceptable. 

I agree with Mary Knapp that to have such strong concerns for the
environment is a placement of attention on the effect rather than the
cause. I think traveler is correct on one point and that is that inner
growth is a self-centred activity. If you don't spend time on working
out your understanding of just what you are, who will? I would have
thought those in the grip of K had a much more immediate problem of
staying sane than being worried about the rest of the world. 

The tradition I have followed was that of initiation, it doesn't seem to
matter which group one works in, they all have much the same effect. To
clarify this the groups involved were for me Kabalistic in form but I
left group work some 15 years ago and have pressed on alone.

What I found was that when the energy rises the challenge was to meet it
and understand what Life was trying to teach one. The wrong attitude was
to say Why Me! and complain. Every move of Karma is a chance to grow. If
one ever becomes Complete, whatever that means, I think Life will turn
one back to help the planet but until you have something to offer on
that sort of scale one's time is better spent in developing one empathy
and understanding. The only person you can experiment on is yourself, if
you are going to work on others, or God forbid, the planet, I would
suggest you had better know what you are doing, with the best will in
the world, Good Intentions are NOT enough. 
-
Christopher Williams  



Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 
From: Christopher Williams 
Subject: Re: pain & sex energy

In message , Mary Knapp
- writes
>
>What a great post. Thank you.  We needed that.  At least I did.  My current
>bad mood seems easier to take and more likely to be of some benefit in the
>long run. Can you suggest some readings that might be helpful in achieving
>the kind of balance you display here?  What other traditions' perspective  a
>r e  you coming from?  It seems quite different and more practical than most
>I've looked at. TIA

To quote from my other post - The tradition I have followed was that of
initiation, it doesn't seem to matter which group one works in, they all
have much the same effect. To clarify this the groups involved were for
me Kabalistic in form but I left group work some 15 years ago and have
pressed on alone.

Reading?? I have doubts that anyone who has their K up and running is
going to find much reading that will help. There is always The Kundalini
Experience by Lee Sannella, or if you want to see what not to do, read
Gopi Krishna account. It may work for some but I found it depressing as
he never seems to come to grips with K and fails to develop a relation-
ship to the energy nor an understanding of what is happening to him.
Maybe I'm wrong?

One thing that may help, in Indian culture the energy (K) is taken up
through the head and explodes in the Crown chakra. In the Chinese
version the energy is brought down the face to the heart and then back
down the front of the body to the starting point. A book by Lu K'uan Yu
(Charles Luk) called Taoist Yoga, Alchemy and Immortality describes
these ideas in much more detail. My copy was published in 1972, so it
may not be in print. The taoist comment is to circulate the energy, I
would strongly suggest you experiment with the concept, keep the force
within, lead it round and round until it is under some sort of control.
What I would expect is that your centres balance out in their own way
and draw your attention inward. In the end it is an experimental
science, if it works - great, if not ask your inner feelings What Do I
Do Now, the chances are that if your intuitive connection is working it
may guide you to another experiment that does work for you.

If you want to try something very different then read The Golden Dawn by
Israel Regardie published by Llewellyn Publication. This I believe is
very much in print and is very close to where I come from but it is not
for everyone, however it does provide a way of a graduated approach to
awakening.  
Christopher Williams  



Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 
From: RONALD PANIAGUA 
Subject: I Love you all, I only like to tell you that I read your mail ...
-
... and be with you in the spirit; don't worry, be happy!
I mean it! Have your kundalini-expiriences full, live them,
feel them,  b e  them - and you  b e  free.
Don't let you limite(d) by your writiungs, by your thoughs,
by nothing. Express yourself, send it over here, therefore is 
the list. -- More and more Light is comming in, and we all 
will go through tremandous positive changes these days.
Love and Light for you
Antaris
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py
Fax: 011 595 21 310 563



Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 
From: NannuATNOSPAMsanctum.com
Subject: Nannu, page #1

My story starts thirty-seven years ago at the age of eighteen. Met a fella
while doing a stint in the service who predicted a plane crash, including;
the number of people aboard (classified info), where it would crash, ...and
how.  It happened exactly the way he predicted, ...and I came to the
realization that I had some serious learning to do.

Thus began my search for knowledge. Anything and everything that had
anything to do with the human experience I studied. There was plenty to
read and I was destined, for the next twenty years, to spend a lot of time
in libraries and bookstores.

Being a freelance carpenter, I traveled the country after discharge, living
in my little Buick Opel Cadet.  I broke thru the bracing between  the rear 
seat and trunk and put a full bed in,  and carried three changes of clothes.
When I arrived in a town I would find, and work, a job to completion, then
live off the money I would make for as long as I could, while I trekked
cross country,  searching the libraries and bookstores for knowledge. I
bathed in lakes and rivers, sometimes meeting groups of people living the
same way as I, and had many good times in my otherwise solitary life.

I discovered Kundalini early on and took to it immediately. I didn^t know
why I was so drawn to it, except that somewhere deep inside I recognized
it. I felt, that locked up in all the chaff,  (and there was plenty), were the
grains of truth I was seeking.  Some of the first words I read about
Kundalini came from a real old book, written by one of the Kundalini
ancients;
                  ^ To those who would enter upon this path,
                         be it known, ...there is NO return!...^

At the time I smiled at what I considered, ^theatrics^, but the words
stuck with me, and as the years marched on, I gradually began to realize
just what the ancient was saying with those words.  Which in turn,
opened new doors of perception. I was beginning to ^see^ from a different
viewpoint.  But it also set the stage for what I can only say was the
opening of Pandora^s Box, and eventually I would wind up in a state
institution for a  ^nervous breakdown^.

         Will Nannu get out of the loony bin? Just what was it that he began
to ^realize^?  Does he realize it now?  Will he ever realize it?

This and more in future versions of  ....^Nannu, the  r-e-a-l  nut!^
-
-- 

  \|\|\|\|\|\|      CHILDREN of the UNIVERSE,  ...Nannu     |\|\|\|\|\|\



Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: k and evolution
-
>To: Christopher Williams 
>From: traveler 
>
>
>>>I am from a different tradition that does not make lots of little boxes. The
>>>body and the mind are one, the body and the spirit are one, etc....just
>>>different forms.
>
> To claim as traveler does that
>>we should just roll it all up into one big ball and be blind to
>>experience is, to me, unacceptable. 
>>
>Did I say that?
>
>My point is simply that in my honored and esteemed tradition, we believe
that there is only now, and that energy is energy. Our outer world is the
same as our inner world...in much the way that optimists live happy lives,
pessimists live lousy ones...spiritual seekers find god, etc.....We create
our our outer worlds from our inner ones....and if we have no respect for
the outer worlds, it is inconsistent with loving our inner worlds...for our
outer world experiences will reinforce what we believe on the inner plane. 
>
>If one is really angry at others, there is a place inside this person who
is angry. If one does not respect his or her environment, there is a place
inside oneself that is lacking respect, for we do have bodies.  To love our
environment is to love ourselves more fully. And as our self-love grows, so
does the love we have to give to others.
>
>As we sow, so shall we reap....
->
>As we give, so shall we receive....
>
>



Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 
From: Dolce Vita 
Subject: Re: Shri Mataji & Sahaja Yoga
-
Hi Maurizio,
I agree basically with your post and thank you for the advice of 
meditation, but since we are all representation of the Divinity also, we 
all have information to share together. I will tell you that once your 
kundalini is awakened its safer to have a guru, I understand you don't 
seem to believe or grasp the guru principle, but the greatest kundalini 
masters have said that one need a guru for a safe travel on this path. 
Gopi Krishna in "Living with Kundalini" said so, and many others. I also 
don't believe in false gurus, but Baba Muktananda and Bagawan Nityananda 
are absolutely true gurus.  They gave shaktipat and millions of people 
got awakened by them.. also Paramahansa Yogananda, Mother Meera... and a 
lot more. I believe that we must not generalize, sometimes one 
recommends their own experience while this is going smoothly, but a lot 
of people with k awakening need a guru and mostly those that are having 
a not so pleasant roller coaster ride, need a guru, even if you want to 
believe it or not. Of course we are our own guru and the kundalini is 
divinity within us but it is an enormous power that must be channeled in 
the right way.
In peace and light,
Lissette