kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 176 

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: Shri Mataji & Sahaja Yoga

You wrote: Thanks to Dan, Nichiren and Paco for sharing a bit more
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Maurizio,

I appreciate the detailed information. I, indeed, intend to seek more. 
Today I was finally contacted by one of the local people from the 
Sahaja group. Unfortunately, she is leaving tonight and won't be back 
for a week. Oh, well patience is a good thing to learn. In our brief 
discussion she expressed puzzlement at the description of surging, 
powerful, blissful experiences with my spontaneous awakening - seems 
outside her experience which was more Sahaja-typical as quiet and 
controlled; will look forward to learning more of that aspect as I and 
others understand the addicting power of raging-bliss and how it can 
entrance and prevent development beyond it.

I sense in your post the same frustration that I got from Shri Mataji's 
lecture. That is frustration/regret/resignation to the fact that the 
state that you have cannot be expressed with such perfection that it 
will make all seek it too. I mentioned that I also sensed the 
quiet-dynamo that was this woman. She is IMHO as genuine, honest, and 
forthright as any human you would ever want to know. Yet her words and 
energy were not enough to convince all - some in the front row got up 
and left during the talk (an abominably rude thing to do IMO). Her 
frustration is probably heightened in that she has devoted her special 
attention to America and it is the American mentality that is most 
geared to skepticism and facile rejection. It is that attitude in me 
that looks askance at the Indian trappings, Indian songs, Indian 
dancing. They are so reminiscent of the 'Rolls-Royce-riding-guru-thing' 
that I think it actually makes it harder for me, as well as others, to 
see through it to the important aspect. I am, however, seeking that 
which is of help to me in this due to your and others encouragement, 
thanks for that.
-
Love & LAUGHING LIGHT,
DANananda
(Buddha's short cousin-the one, over whose head the teachings went-)



Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 
From: Paco 
Subject: Re: Sexual etc.
-
Nannu,
		

	Mainly, my problem with what Natha said  was that he 
basically equated celibacy and Tantric sex practices. Like,
just be celibate, and/or learn to do these techniques (ie: it is
a must).
	
	In my experience, people read books about Yoga and
immediately attempt the most advanced things. Seems like 
everybody skips to the chapter in the Tantra book 
titled "Sex and Tantra", then starts doing
some related exercise. Gee, wonder why. Or else, if they buy
one Tantra book, it's called "Tantric Sex". Tantra has many,
many other aspects, as I'm sure you know.

	Some people think they are sort of manually opening 
their highest centers, when in reality they are kind of dry and stagnant
could really profit from some genuine mental development and
interaction. True? 

Sexual Tantra is highly advanced. Natha was talking about
climaxing and reabsorbing the semen etc. Let me ask you
this: How many practitioners out there can suck a glass of
water through the tip of their penis, wash their bladders
with it, then urinate it back out? Can you? As I'm sure you
know, this is an elementary form of Vajroli, which leads to
the ability to reabsorb the semen during intercourse.

-	Some of the techniques Natha described can present pitfalls
even for highly advanced Yogis in India. If you're just stepping
on your cum shot and biting the bullet, thinking you're increasing
your energy level, well I don't know what to tell you.

	I'm just saying that, although moderation is good,
celibacy is usually excessive. Sex can be a sweet part
of people's lives and dreams, and helps people evolve if they 
open their hearts to it, and to other people.
later,
-	---Paco

"Welcome to the camp, I guess you all know why you're here.
My name is Tommy, and I became aware this year. If you
want to follow me, you've got to play pinball. And put on
your eyeshades, put in your earplugs, you know where to put
the cork."  [ from Tommy by The Who ]



-
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: Re: Unsubscribe

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Thursday, 03-Oct-96 09:00 AM

From: Anne Wright              \ Internet:    (wrigaATNOSPAMsisna.com)
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe

Dear List Members,
        It has been an incredible journey, and I never would have made it
if I hadn't stumbled (no such thing anymore is there) upon the list. It has
given me tremendous support and understanding. Right now I feel is a time
to refocus my energies on living my kundalini existence. As soon as my ego
starts to surge, or I become distant from the energy, I will resubscribe.
Those of you who have been there, feel free to email me directly. Also,
Richard, I am a counselor, so feel free to refer any newly awakened or
freshly freaked out people to me. I would be happy to talk to them, and I
know just how far a spiritual emergency can go. Sometimes it helps to speak
with someone who has been there in private. I still live with the sheer
embarasement of it all, but I know it was a necessary part of the whole
picture. Also Richard, my parting wish would be to gain more understanding
about your motives for running the list. Come on. Tell us. What energy do
you receive? Where are you coming from? Since your personality rarely comes
through on the posts, you remind me of the Green Hornet, and if you know
who that is, it will date you. Take care, and thanks for the energy. Anne

-


------- FORWARD, End of original message -------


--
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with.  His
mind
was created for his own thoughts, not yours or mine.
Henry S. Haskins



Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 
From: ori^ 
Subject: Making love to god [Re: Frustration]

At 01:57 AM 10/3/96 GMT, Melody Gavigan wrote:
>Ain't that the truth? I miss having my boyfriend; making love to 
>him so much. I feel like 1/2 a person. 
>Why doesn't God want me to have any more of it? 

In some ways it is as if this process of awakening energies is about
turning away from externalizing the energy flow and looking for 
completion with another person, and instead looking within and working
with the kundalini in the weaving of our oppositions.  

In western culture there is little in the way of a model for knowing 
how to do this within oneself.  Most pictures of [western] reality 
show that to be "whole" you must be in relationship.  Instead of
projecting half of your energy outward, part of the awakening process
seems to be about becoming a whole person within oneself.

At times during this awakening process I have experienced what I can
only describe as making love with god... or spirit... or all that is.
Call it what you will.  I felt it to be the deepest, most intimate
intertwinings of my being, complete with orgasm (which I must say
totally amazed me).

Melody hard as it may seem, especially when you've been so close to
someone, there is a great reward in finding the way to be close to
oneself.  This is not to the exclusion of a physical relationship,
but may have to be accomplished outside of one before entering
back into one from a perspective of wholeness.

Words just can't do justice to the experience of making love with god.

love and light,
ori^
-

******
*              ori^                   *
*            oriATNOSPAMeskimo.com           *
* http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html *
****** 



-
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Chakra opening

u35500054 wrote:
> 
> Hey Dan ! I know your feeling, and my opinion about your problem
> is,meditate  on your head chakras. because It is much more dangerous
> to keep the energi in the head . If you not letting it out you prevent the
> k rising, and the rising gets slower and be much more pain ful.Kundalini
> is not dangerous if you get rid of the fear. Get rid of the fear and go for
> it.Kundalini is powerful and of course some times violent but not
> dangerous

Does Gopi Krishna's 12 years of torment not qualify as 'dangerous'?  
Or Friedrich Nietzsche's 10 years of catatonia?
Or the fate of all the 'Masts' encountered by Meher Baba?
Or the gravesites at Hakuin Zenji's temple in Japan?

There is, after all, a good evolutionary reason why K awakening 
is not more common, it may in fact be adaptive more for the group,
less so for the individual. Evolution is not pretty, sometimes.

Here is Zen master Kyong-Ho's advice on not pushing the 
envelope in order to avoid terrible headaches:

"28. You have just heard a very rare talk. You should continue to study
this great matter enthusiastically. Do not hurry, otherwise you might
become sick or get a terrible headache. Calm yourself, then ceaselessly
meditate. Most of all, be careful not to force yourself. Rather, relax
and let your right questioning be within!"

Not to mention all the other warnings about the real possibility of 
death or incapacitation from the shaman cultures, the 
African American Holy Spirit tradition, the Bushmen etc. etc.

Which is why meditation will soon be illegal in most states,
punishable by enforced psychiatric medication, and meditation
retreats will have to be held underground, in strict secrecy,
with guards posted all over.

But, in the meantime, enjoy the Golden Age of Meditation!
Have fun!  Enlighten all beings!

cheers
----
"eternity waits for no-one"


-
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 
From: "Richard Laws" 
Subject: Newbie: Chakras of the Earth?

Greetings
I am on my K journey and having just subscribed to this list, I've found it
very helpful to know their are many others having similar experiences.

My question.  "Someone" wrote that North America (?) was the "throat"
chakra of the earth (or did I just dream this).  What are the locations of
the other "earth" chakras?

I will be traveling to Moscow and Germany soon.

Also on a related note.  The "chakra locations" has brought up a North
American Indian myth that I learned/read about many years ago.  (pardon my
interpretation but I am looking for the original myth if someone could
point me towards it).  Anyway, the Indians have a myth that the "powers" of
the earth were divided and given to the "people" of the earth.  At some
future time the "powers" would be reunited.  The Indians have been guarding
their power (which I don't remember).  I think the "Africans" were given
"Water".  Asians were given something, etc.  If someone can help me find
the full story I would appreciate it very much.  It feels important in my
"journey".

Thank you in advance
Rich


-
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 
From: melody.gaviganATNOSPAMnvonline.com (Melody Gavigan)
Subject: Re: Sexual etc: Paco

DL> Some people think they are sort of manually opening
  >their highest centers, when in reality they are kind of dry and stagnant
  >could really profit from some genuine mental development and
  >interaction. True?

Hi Paco,
     How does one go about opening their highest centers "manually"?
It always felt like a very natural progressive-type thing to me.
BTW, I think you can open your heart chakra, in the least, from genuine 
mental development and interaction.

DL> I'm just saying that, although moderation is good,
  >celibacy is usually excessive. Sex can be a sweet part
  >of people's lives and dreams, and helps people evolve if they
  >open their hearts to it, and to other people.
-
     How true. And what a lovely way to evolve. I had a behavioral 
science graduate actually tell me that our hearts emit magnetic energy 
waves. And isn't that what opening the flow is all about there? 

Melody

 * 1st 2.00 #7384 * Fill our emptiness not through our mate, but thru Spirit.


-
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: Chakra opening

Dan Gahlinger wrote:
> 
> ugh... i know its dangerous, or can be. my k has already moved past that
> point, thats not a problem. well, i guess, thats the end of the trip for the
> k, so to speak. (not literally). I've meditated for days, with no effect.
> the pressure is increasing. my head feels horrible. intense pain more now.
> "my brain feels like a cheddar-melt" :)

Please excuse me for de-lurking and presuming to advise.
Sounds like you need all the help you can get, and who knows,
maybe even naifs like me might have an idea that could help?

I have heard that Chi Kung excercises are helpful to encourage
'circulation' of the energy, as opposed to 'blockage'.

You might be interested in the description of Hakuin's 
Taoist visualization practice described in the book
'The Tiger's Cave' by Philip Yampolsky, which he used
to cure pathological kundalini.  Basically imagining 
a lump of butter on top of your head and feeling it
melt down through your body to your toes.  The Taoist
master that Hakuin consulted advised him to stop
meditating for a while.  So who knows?  I think it
took Hakuin about 3 years to stabilize his kundalini
using this visualisation practice.
-
Anyway, it is similar to some of the Chi Kung visualisations.

There's an old Zen saying: 
     
           "keep your head cool and your belly warm".

I wonder what professionals like the Spiritual Emergence Network
would advise in your case?

cheers



Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: SEXUAL POST (Spoiler)

>Regarding sex and K: (please scroll down if you'd like to read this post).
>
->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
->
>
>
>
>

>At the moment of orgasm, which is never withheld, by the way, the pleasure is
>totally secondary and often cannot even be felt.  Since the energy or sounds
>or breathing is so overwhelming in my head, the actual final contraction and
>release seems to be happening so far away, and feels so small by comparison,
>that it's not a highlight at all.

i have felt much the same. as i think i said before. sex (by myself and
with a partner) has become a sacred act. it is a way of communicating with
the divine.
>
>Since this began, I have often tried to masturbate for pleasure, but this K
>version always kicks in.  It runs the show, pretty much, and there's so much
>bliss involved that that's okay with me.  I have also had some sex with
>partners during this time, and it took effort to stay connected with the
>woman and not veer off into the K.

in my experience, if i connect with the K while making love, it heightens
my husband's experience. he has now begun to have K experiences as well and
i think his K was awakening through our lovemaking.

>
>I'm hopeful that I can find a loving partner, also awake and aware and alive
>to this energy, so that union will include K.  But that is not something to
>grasp at, it will come when it comes.
-
good luck in your search :)
>

lia



Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 
From: Mistress Angelique Serpent 
Subject: Re: some sexual misunderstandings

well, Natha I have some disagreements about what you call 'mistakes'.
At 14:18 01/10/96 +0200, you wrote:
>To Bee Cotterill,
>
>There are some mistakes in you posting:
>
>Orgasms do not "awaken K more and more"; this would make that half of the
Earth's 
>population reaches old age with an enormous kundalini awakening, due to the
many orgasms 
>of their previous years. While it is true that *during* the orgasm there
occur sometimes 
>kundalini-related phenomena, the Tantric tradition clearly shows that
orgasms which are 
>*discharged*, deplete the sexual energy and diminish the possibility of
rising the 
>kundalini.
Orgasms CAN be used to increasr K. more and more, as Bee said. It depends
what you do with the energy. Especially for Women, but for men it is
intensified if they learn to have orgasms without elaculating. Partly,
because you can have more orgasms, and build your energy with each one. Of
course we release energy. It's about how clear you are to the free flow of
energy through you, shaping your life, not how much is stuck inside. It can
be another way to love yourself and give love to Gaia. Focus on
unconditional self-love, give thanks for being alive and having a body that
can feel pleasure. In Orgasm, release the energy out through the top of your
head, and through your feet, with love for the beautiful planet.
  What you focus on and give your energy to, grows. Focus on the K. shooting
out the top of your head, and your chakras lighting up like a pinball
machine during orgasm. All acts of love and pleasure serve the Goddess.
 And no, the menstruation is not "a cleansing process of the body" -- it 
  Yep, it is. Maybe not for you, but...
  There is a doctor here who has been researching an interesting theroy. He
looked at heart disease statistics, and wondered if feminine protection
against heart disease might be related to iron loss during periods. 
  His preliminary research makes a definite connection between clogged
arteries and excessive iron in the blood. Women cleanse, during periods. Men
can beat heart disease by giving blood at the change of seasons, just like
they used to bleed men at the solstice, in the old ways.
  Anthropologists also surmise that the reason for periods is that human
females are/were always sexually active, and as a result we get a lot more
foreign matter inside us than most animals, which must be removed regularly
if the womb is to stay healthy. 
  Wiccans and Rosicrutians believe that it is during her period that a
woman's magical power is at it's peak. 
  Bleeding is cleansing, particularly in cases of metal poisioning, and some
environmental toxins. Tainted blood is removed from the system in small
amounts at a time and the poisons it carries, and the body is encouraged and
supported in creating fresh new blood. It is a very slow process, but easier
on the body than the "Keith Richards" total blood replacement routine. No
foreign DNA.
(Do not try this at home.)

>a depleting of the feminine energy, similar to man's ejaculation! The
Tantric tradition 
I have studied several, and they often disagree. There is even an ancient
chinese fashion called 'nip and nuture', which suggests an almost combative
concept, to withhold your own orgasm, and promote your partner's, so you can
vampire the energy for your own power and longevity. 
  I prefer to withhold as a method of building the energy up way beyond
normal sexual limitations, and then to release the energy with intent:
healing, visualization, blockage-blasting, worship of Higher Powers,
strenghtening my House Spell, whatever the needs and inspiration of the moment.
 I use my 'creative' energy to create what I want in my life, gathering it,
building it up, shaping it, and releasing it in love to the universe, to
return to me with form.
  This, to me, is not so much a sexual experience, as a meditative one. My
awareness is on physical sensation and energy flow, my mind is occupied with
prayer and visualization of physical or spiritual goals.
  Annie Sprinkle's web page has a description of how to have energy orgasms.
 No sexual stimulation, just breathing and energy visualization.
       Well, I'm off to the Leather Convention. Blessings, Angelique.



Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: sex & k: what if?
-
Hi

This does not contain any explicit sex, yet, so read on....

What if both Natha and those who disagree with her are right?  What if 
sex doesn't cause anything related to K, but, because we are who we are, 
sex allows us to access that in us which is usually inaccessible, or 
previously dormant.  

Better yet, what if we are misinterpreting sexual energy.  The ancients 
called it creative energy, not sexual energy.  Nature is sensual; like 
long green grass that wraps around your bare legs, water that laps gently 
agains your skin or pounds its waves against your chest.  The smell and 
feel of a child's skin is sensual.  The feel of wine can be sensual and 
each in turn is a part of what brings us back to our creative senses.  
What if it is our openness and vulnerability as a result of the purifying 
aspects of K that simply opens us up to what sex was really meant to be - 
a sensual exploration of ourselves and others?  Sex doesn't cause it in 
this theory, sex is where we most recognize how we've grown, changed as a 
result of k release.  

Test:  do you find yourself getting turned on to stimulii other than that 
which normally would turn you on?  perhaps even that which you did not in 
the past even consider in the field of the sexual, but that may be 
sensual?    If yes....

enjoy

jan
-


Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: some sexual misunderstandings

I've heard, but an unsure as to how true it is, but what I heard is that
Tantra is difficult or shouyld I say dangerous to practice without knowing
what one is doing. Not sure why, but I suppose it's true.
-


Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 
From: RONALD PANIAGUA 
Subject: the list is realivly quiet, but I am "out" there watching you

Beloved Ones:
Please don't think that, because I am not responding to everyone,
I am not reading your messanges, Paco, Jan, Dan, and Nanuuuuuu
most actives, but also the less actives I am with you in the spirit
(ori), so we are all ONE. There is a tribue in Brazil, and they 
have a special night, when all men make love to all women, to 
s e c u r e  the most successfull reproduction. They never heard
about the word AIDS and natutrally they have no (sexual or other)
illness. Sounds grazy for us civilicated tantra-lovemakers. But
think it over again: We are all ONE. And those are giving you
sexual limitations, are giving you limitations to your biggest
creative power, which IS  LOVE  !!!!!
Did you ever made love to someone without at least the 1000% (or part)
of  a n y  feeling????                       (la milesima parte)
So feel good tonight. And all of you who are lonely, give me a call
on:
011 595 981 427 468
or
00595 0981 427 468
Love and Light for you
Antaris Ra Melchizedek
limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py

-

Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: Re: an open mind

uckle up your seat belt and get ready for the ride of your life!  You have
>embarked on the most magical journey you could ever imagine at this point.
> Once you have "arrived," you'll realize that there is much more magic
>available to you right at your fingertips.  Please remember, as the emotions
>are released, and it seems as if your whole world is falling apart, to ENJOY
>THE RIDE....Know that the emotions are only illusions of lifetimes of past
>false belief systems.  You're breaking those old molds!  Let them break and
>crumble away.  A new enlightened, loving, and light you is waiting.  Again,
>enjoy the ride.
>
>All experiences are valid, as they get you to where you are going....


thanks for the beautiful and inspiring post, Barb.
-
i take it you had a good vacation :)

lia