kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 173 

Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: alcohol and sugar

        I am so glad to see AA repetedly recommended.  I come from a family
full of alcoholics (5 out of 8!!) and though I escaped it myself, I was a
sugar junkie most of my life... until I started putting molasses in my
breakfast blender drink.  I thought I was doing it for the iron it would
supply, but I noticed that it cured my sugar cravings as well.  No doubt I
had been craving the minerals that are refined out of sugar but remain
concentrated in molasses. Do try it if you crave either sugar or alcohol.
It may work for you too.  I'd love to hear if it does. 
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling


-
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 
From: NannuATNOSPAMsanctum.com
Subject: And you can quote me on this Dave...

It seems Dave,

That the only thing you know how to do is quote other peoples ^stories^.

This list is about Kundalini and peoples interactions with it.  If the best 
you can do is quote stories, then you need to get onto a storybook site. 

Ithink your problem is that your so busy quoting others, you don^t have 
time to find out for yourself what is true and what isn^t. That^s a shame 
Dave, cause a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Your so busy living other 
peoples thoughts, that you don^t have any of your own. 

                Run rabbit, run,...dig that hole, forget the sun.
                       and when at last your work is done,
                 don^t sit down...it^s time to dig another one 
-- 
…½¼†ªº�æø       CHILDREN of the UNIVERSE,  ...Nannu      ƒÆ؃¾¶¥µ�



Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 
From: redormanATNOSPAMplix.com (Dorman, Robert )
Subject: 3-fold Sophic Fire

I thought the list might enjoy this alchemical poem
borrowed from:  http://www.levity.com/alchemy/sophfire.html

Does any of this sound familiar?!

Verse on the
Threefold Sophic
Fire


This poem in praise of the threefold sophic fire
is included in William Y-Worth, The Compleat
Distiller..., London 1705.

In Laudem Trium Sophicorum Ignium.

Heat, that produces many things, must prepare
Their Bodies, and disclose what Forms they
wear,
By Fire, the Sovereign Element, we thence
A Vinegar derive, no Friend to Sence,
Nor flattr'er of the Palate, 'tis compos'd
Of Earth and Water, amicably clos'd;
Thence it dissolves to Water, and the white
Sublimate Sal-Armoniack, which unite
Into Earths White and red, and Mercur,
To form the Prior Body does comply,
And Tripple Vessel of Philosophy:
The Blood, that fiery Dragon qualifies,
And makes the the Mercurial Vessel rise;
And thence the Female Dragon does proceed,
Who to the Male must afterwards recede:
As Nature in the Orb does circulate
By sending (order'd by the Laws of Fate)
The Spermy Doses to the Earth, which sink,
And thence the Sun does rising moisture drink;
And leaves the multiplying Sperm, which does
Proceed on Bodies; 'tis the way that's chose
By Nature, and her Circulation shows.
Three Eagles do resemble it, and shew
The Compound Vinegar's free Medium there,
By which the Blood and Body strengthen'd are;
The one its Central Spirit does allow,
The other does its vital Life bestow;
And both combine together to produce
Our Second Fire of Philosophick use;
Thence the Third Fire, the Mountain's Floody
sperm
Is freed; and this we Artfully affirm;
Unvail'd, unbound, from Earthly Chains set free,
This third most sacred Fire the Sophi see;
Which Azoth some, but others do it name
The Lyon Green, well known in Rolls of Fame;
By which they do their Sun and Moon conjoyn,
And Nature thus with Nature do Combine:
By this are clip'd the swift Cyllenian Wings;
The Body this to Dissolution brings;
By this moist Heat the Sun and Moon descend,
And all their Vertues downward it attend;
These downward drawn afford a lovely sight,
While in the Blood and Body they unite;
And under these two Forms when they come
near,
Far stronger than before they then appear;
Since in the Triune Fountain we behold
What e'er in Mystick Fable we are told,
Of that fierce fiery Colchian Beast,
Within whose Bowels Treasures hid do rest;
Who doth the Magi's Chalybs there conceal,
Which worthy is of Wisdom to reveal:
Th' Elixir gives our Second Fire compleat,
The Volatile is fixed by its Heat;
Nor of Addition is here any need,
Besides it can produce a living Seed;
The living Seed of Metals here does lye,
Not dead, discover'd by the Artists Eye;
This is that Gur, that noble Lunar Oyl,
For which so many vainly rove and toyl;
This Fire it is which made Pontanus wise,
The Fire, which made Artephius so to rise.
In Years, and all the living Weights excel;
For nothing can its mighty force repel:
>From Sulphur is its Birth; but make not hast,
If you wou'd not your Time and Labour wast;
Since from the Matter this you must not take,
For it's a Sulphur of another make:
But when the Blood and Mercury you have
found,
And it by dextrous hidden Art have bound;
Then Nature learn sweetly to imitate,
As she will teach you how to circulate;
In her Circulations your Pattern see
Always; and from this Pattern never flee:
This now to animate and fortifie,
Eagles, be sure, you must seven more let fly;
By every flight the Light begets a day,
While Darkness from the Light makes hast
away;
In every one a Separation's made,
The vanquish'd Darkness now can't make afraid;
For see, behold the Splendour that appears;
See the bright Nymph, that here her Head
uprears;
A living Splendent Fountain now doth run,
With a Transcendent Brightness, as the Sun,
Shining and streaming Vertue all a-round,
By which it penetrates whole Nature's Ground;
This, as the Azoth true, our living Spring,
The Body to Perfection soon will bring:
Here Laton, melted, open'd and calcin'd,
By this Mercurial Fire is refin'd;
Laton, our Gold, here many times baptize,
We do imbibe and wash, till to its size
And Standard true, it do at last arrive,
For which it will be worth our while to strive;
Nor is there loss of any other part,
But all remains, not touch'd, nor chang'd by Art:
For this Immortal Fiery Liquor's such,
As nought can ever change, or ever touch;
This with the Matter cannot alter'd be;
By it the Matter alter'd we shall see;
So as thereby to be transparent quite,
And thus made almost of a radiant white;
Which to the Nature of a Spirit turns,
While it in Spirit unconsumed burns:
The Spirit with the Body thus conjoyn'd,
We thence a most excelling Creature find;
In which a Trine of Principles doth lye,
Pure Salt, pure Sulphur and pure Mercury;
These Art can separate, and then unite;
That Art of which the hidden Sophi write,
But none besides, none but Dame Nature's Art,
This wondrous Secret ever did impart:
Within this Mine two Stones of old were found,
Whence this the Antients called Holy Ground;
Who knew their Value, Power and Extent,
And Nature how with Nature to Ferment
For these if you Ferment with Nat'ral Gold
Or Silver, their hid Treasures they unfold,
According to their Natures then proceed,
And take care properly each one to feed;
Imbibe, Multiply, and when you project,
Then shall be seen the wonderful Effect;
Which may indeed the ignorant amaze,
Not so the Wise, who will not vainly gaze;
But falling prostrate down will God adore
And joyful offer up to him their Store.


--Bob
A truly wise man will not be carried away by any of the eight winds:
prosperity, decline, disgrace, honor, praise, censure, suffering and
pleasure.  He is neither elated by prosperity nor grieved by decline.
                          ---Nichiren Daishonin



Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Continence & Kundalini

"Not all can accept this teaching; but those to whom
it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born
so from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who
were made so by men; and there are eunuchs who have
made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of
heaven. Let him accept it who can."

- Gospel of St. Matthew 19:11-12


-
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 
From: davelong 
Subject: Ramakrishna On Kundalini

"Yoga is not possible if the mind dwells on 'woman and gold'.(*)
The mind of a worldly man generally moves among the three lower
centres: those at the navel, at the sexual organ, and at the
organ of evacuation. After great effort and spiritual practice
the Kundalini is awakened. According to the yogis there are
three nerves in the spinal column: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna.
Along the Sushumna are six lotuses, or centres, the lowest being
known as the Muladhara. Then comes successively Svadhisthana,
Manipura, Anahata, Visuddha, and Ajna. These are the six centres.
The Kundalini, when awakened, passes through the lower centres
and comes to the Anahata, which is at the heart. It stays there.
At that time the mind of the aspirant is withdrawn from the
three lower centres. He feels the awakening of the Divine
Consciousness and sees Light. In mute wonder he sees that radiance
and cries out: 'What is this? What is this?'
-
"After passing through the six centres, the Kundalini reaches the
thousand-petalled lotus known as Sahasrara, and the aspirant goes
into samadhi.

"According to the Vedas these centres are called 'bhumi', 'planes'.
There are seven such planes. The centre at the heart corresponds
to the fourth plane of the Vedas. According to Tantra there is in
this centre a lotus called Anahata, with twelve petals.

"The centre known as Visuddha is the fifth plane. This centre is at
the throat and has a lotus with sixteen petals. When the Kundalini
reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and hear only about
God. Conversation on worldly subjects, on 'woman and gold', cause
him great pain. He leaves a place where people talk of these matters.

"Then comes the sixth plane, corresponding to the centre known as
Ajna. This centre is located between the eyebrows and it has a lotus
with two petals. When the Kundalini reaches it, the aspirant sees
the form of God. But there still remains a slight barrier between
the devotee and God. It is like a light inside a lantern. You may
think you have touched the light, but in reality you cannot because
of the barrier of glass.

"And last of all is the seventh plane, which, according to Tantra,
is the centre of the thousand-petalled lotus. When the Kundalini
arrives there, the aspirant goes into samadhi. In that lotus dwells
Satchidananda Siva, the Absolute. There Kundalini, the awakened Power,
unites with Siva. This is known as the union of Siva and Sakti.

"When the Kundalini rises to the Sahasrara and the mind goes into
samadhi, the aspirant loses all consciousness of the outer world.
He can no longer retain his physical body. If milk is poured into
his mouth, it runs out again. In that state the life-breath lingers
for twenty-one days and then passes out. Entering the 'black waters'
of the ocean, the ship never comes back. But the Isvarakotis, such
as the Incarnations of God, can come down from this state of samadhi.
They can descend from this exhalted state because they like to live
in the company of devotees and enjoy the love of God. God retains in
them the 'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they
may teach men. Their minds move between the sixth and seventh planes.
They run a boat-race, as it were, between these two planes.

"After attaining samadhi some souls of their own accord keep the
'ego of Knowledge'. But that ego does not create any attachment. It
is like a line drawn on the water."

 -Sri Ramakrishna, Sunday, August 3, 1884

(*) "Kaminikanchan," Bengali, literally, 'woman and gold' or, lust and
greed.




Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 
From: Paco 
Subject: re: Shri Nirmala Devi

I attended the presentation with Shri Nirmala
Devi, and it was pretty cool. In my opinion she
is the real Mcoy. She has a very sweet, peaceful
energy, and at first I didn't even notice it, however
it is very strong, and if I remember the evening I
can feel it vibrating in me, very blissfully.

I don't know anything about the organization or
whatever, but I will definitely say that she is
very high, and seemed to have a very very good
effect on me. There was an excellent Indian
dancer there and everything seemed enchanted when
she was dancing in front of her...and I felt that
that dancer was very lucky because she got to
ride with Shri Nirmala Devi after the program.

Regarding Davelong: thanks for posting that passage
from the Bhagavad Gita, it's good for me to read
that, and it is always very welcome.  

(from William Gibsons Neuromancer)---
-
[ Hideo swung into his dance, retracing his steps.
When he stood above the bow, the arrow, and the
Remington, Riviera's smile had faded. He bent
-bowing it seemed to Case- and found the bow and
arrow.
	"You're blind", Riviera said, taking a
step backward.
	"Peter", 3Jane said,"don't you know he 
does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he
practices."
	The Ninja notched his arrow. "Will you
distract me with your holograms now?" ]
 
                  
        later,
		Paco



-
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 
From: "Johannes B. Tuemmers" 
Subject: Re: Kundalini... Quote- Good Questions

LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

Hello all,

pleased to meet you. I've been lurcing for some days, and here is my 2
cents worth (if I'm repeating 'old stuff' please excuse):
 
> While researching a paper I came across a quote that might be of interest...
> "Ancient Indian Traditions, more than 5,000 years old, speak of a universal
> life energy called prana that flows in relation to the spine and activates
> the life force, or kundalini.  This breathe of life moves through all living
> forms and can be enhanced by breathing techniques, meditative practices, and
> the specific techniques called yoga.  The Chinese called this basic life
> energy ch'i, which exemplified balance in a healthy person.  An imbalance of
> this energy force could result in physical illness.  In the Kabbalah of
> Jewish mysticism this energy was called astral light."  (Hover- Kramer, 1996)

This is just _one_ view, that's true. The basic question is, how could
we (or at least the author of the above cited article) talk about "This"
energy which is called this and that in different
cultures? How are we to know that all these names refer to one and the
same energy? I feel that the myths, pictures and stories of each culture
can be
_very_ different. But since we all are human beeings, our basic problems
(live, die, why live, where do we come from, where do we go) are the
same. But the answeres which were found in differnet times and parts of
the world are different. Different to such an extent, that it is
sometimes really hard to figure out, what the hell, say,  ancient
agyptian scripts, tibetan buddhist tantric instructions or the chinese
'chi' are all about. Is Chi the same as Kundalini? What does the
Kabbalah say again?

I think, to know better there's no other option than to decide that sone
of these different paths are suitable to oneself and then to set out for
the journey. I would not doubt that there is something to discover -
otherwise it is hard to imagine, that all those cultures, from the very
beginning of human kind up to the present day, were simply hallucinating
(it _is_ possible, though...). 

Recently I found some Institute in Vienna, Austria, specialized in
Biofeedback-Research. They claimed to have found methods by which the
energysupply of the brain is increased by training a particular muscle
located between the sexual organ and the anus. If you are interested,
I'll post it.
They had a webpage, too, but yesterday I couldn't find it on
altavista...

all best wishes,

stay well,

Johannes



-
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: so havely sensual

RONALD PANIAGUA wrote:
> 
> Beloved Jan,
> have you some of the text (vers) of these havely sensual, sexual
> songs from King Salomon. -  Here I am out there. To come back tomorrow
> going into kundaslini-meditation now.
> May all of you stay in the LOVE of the Univers
> and feel ONE!
> Light and Peace!
> Antaris Ra Melchizedek
> limiteATNOSPAMinfonet.com.py

They are in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible in the section, 
Songs of Solomon.  The other two writers are Sufi writers, but I suspect 
you know that.   Note that St. John of the Cross also uses the metaphor 
of the Beloved as a way of explaining the journey.  

enjoy

jan



Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 
From: u35500054 
Subject: Symtoms

Thank you royale for the answer. Believe me i have already try aspirin.I 
allready know that this is symtoms from Kundalini. This is not my first 
year with k.I have a very activ k energy. I also know It's not a 
physical affection, because for a time ago I was a frequenter at the 
hospital.My symtoms is very variable.I will try your advice.Love Ia



-
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 
From: u35500054 
Subject: Pain relief

Thank You Lia ! I will try your advice. LOve Ia.



Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: some sexual misunderstandings

To Bee Cotterill,

There are some mistakes in you posting:

Orgasms do not "awaken K more and more"; this would make that half of the
Earth's population reaches old age with an enormous kundalini awakening, due to
the many orgasms of their previous years. While it is true that *during* the
orgasm there occur sometimes kundalini-related phenomena, the Tantric tradition
clearly shows that orgasms which are *discharged*, deplete the sexual energy
and diminish the possibility of rising the kundalini.

Menstruation problems, and especially having it much more often than normal,
show disorders at the level of the 2nd chakra -- energy which is not transmuted,
and hangs there unused. And no, the menstruation is not "a cleansing process of
the body" -- it is a depleting of the feminine energy, similar to man's
ejaculation! The Tantric tradition knew it so well that it even describes the
alchemic, magic and paranormal uses of this phenomenon, and advises the women
who wish to reach the highest levels of spirituality to *stop* it by certain
Yogic practices, usually kept in secret. For not having to argue endlessly on
this, I recommend the excellent study done by modern gynecologists: The
physiological enigma of woman; the mystery of menstruation -- its cause and
cure. It is an extremely rare book, published by: Health Research, P.O. Box 70,
Mokelumne Hill, California 95245, and by reading it you will be amazed of what
modern medicine *hides* from the public.

Blessings,

-- 
Natha Bhaktyananda 
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668



Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: blowing lightbulbs

To Holly,

According to the Yogic and Tantric teaching concerning kundalini and the
chakra-s, blowing lightbulbs (and also all kind of other electric equipment)
when turning it on, shows a great excess of un-transmuted sexual energy at the
level of Svadhishthana chakra.

With blessing,
-
-- 
Natha Bhaktyananda 
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668



Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: sexual continence

To Diane,

There are some serious misunderstandings in your post concerning the
withholding of the ejaculation and the sexual continence.

First: the sperm that is controlled does not go into the bladder, but is
re-absorbed by the body through a net of lymphatic channels that surrounds the
seminal bladder, then it is mysteriously "alchemized" by the body in a process
of biological transmutation, and then the resulting components and energy are
flown into the spinal liquid, boosting enormously the psychic energy. This is a
very brief and simplified account of the process.

Second: of course that a man can enjoy (even hundredfold so!) without having an
ejaculation. Orgasm and ejaculation are not one and the same thing. Proof:
there are men who an ejaculate and feel *nothing*, or worse: ejaculate and feel
pain during the process! Second proof: no man (or woman) who reaches indeed the
Tantric accomplishment would ever agree to return to a normal sexuality, since
now they have a term of comparaison!

Third: of course that sexual continence helps in spiritual progress and in the
circulation of energy. If it were not so, it would mean that all the age-old
spiritual experience of this planet would be wrong! As inferred by Freud also,
sexual energy is for the human development what a propeller is for a boat;
without it, you go nowhere! Moreover, this energy is limited (3 drops and a
half of ojas, according to Tantra) and it has to be conserved with great care.
Therefore, there is no option for a true spiritual evolution, besides
asceticism (celibacy) on one hand, *or* sexual continence through Tantra on the
other hand.

Fourth: We were not "made for sexual activity" -- allow me to believe in a
higher goal of the human existence! "Any creature which  follows the path which
nature made for it" will reach only where nature can lead: old age, decay,
death, and endless reincarnation as prisoner of the same nature. But the goals
of those who rise their kundalini and aim at spirituality is different: to rise
above the nature, to master it and to liberate themselves from its chains. That
is why, it is only natural that Tantra recommends methods that are "against the
nature", "swimming against the stream".
-
With blessings,
 
-- 
Natha Bhaktyananda 
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668


-
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: Continence & K--Definitions & Disclaimers

You wrote: and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the 
sake of the kingdom of heaven. - Gospel of St. Matthew 19:11-12
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah! And it was on the basis of a literal interpretation of this that 
'Saint' Origen whacked off his hoo-hahs! YEOOOWWWW!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It must be a symptom of the K-experience to get crabby, self-indulgent, 
preachy, absolutist, intolerant, and oh, yeah, long-winded. Yes, I 
include myself. If I could make a humble suggestion - I bow to the 
erudition of others since I barely made it out of High School - 
entertain the possiblility of other views, consider that your 
definition of something is not that of others, that right and wrong are 
relative and carry shades and colors most often made in our own minds, 
and most of all, the experience about which we speak - though shared - 
is personally unique to each of us and attacking our perception of it 
is attacking us at a deep and very emotionally vulnerable level about 
which you (that means each of us) have, by definition, no knowledge.

Arguing your point is valid and we all welcome that (or should if we 
expect to grow). However, one of the basic fallacies in disputation is 
that of 'ad hominem abusive'. That is; attacking the person instead of 
the argument is fallacious and implies a weakness in your own argument. 
In other words, keep it nice.

Definitions are important and I see terms bantied about 
indiscriminantly and it seems that some arguments evolve on just this 
basis. For example: IMHO, I have had and AWAKENING as a result of my 
spontaneously-risen kundalini. I am not ENLIGHTENED as I have seen the 
total self-annihilation that would be involved and I cannot go there 
now. CHAKRA, KUNDALINI, etc. are terms, IMO, that are not based on 
physical, material entities, but rather on internal, perceptions of the 
mind and are merely agreed terms for describing what one FEELS inside 
as a result of doing various actions (yoga, meditation, etc.).

A lot of spleen has been vented over Dave's use of the word HEDONIST. 
It seems to be perceived by those whose ire was raised that that is a 
bad philosophy. Frankly, I am puzzled. Hedonism is based on the concept 
of 'primum non nocere' that is 'first do no harm' (doctor's credo) or 
more simply that nature/evolution/God/Goddess/etc. has placed in this 
world comfort and discomfort for the purpose of letting sentient beings 
know what is beneficial and what is harmful. Yes, even to the point 
that too much of a comfort becomes uncomfortable. I see nothing wrong 
with the application of felicific calculus; determining actions by the 
calculation of the probable pain or pleasure that they will produce 
(i.e., if I meditate, will it hurt, if I choose celibicy is there a 
chance for greater pleasure). Also the image of 'dogs copulating in the 
street' seems to be disturbing. I certainly don't think that my 
engaging in conjugal whoopie is viewed by God as of a higher value than 
that of animals - it is just more fun for us. My marriage and faithful 
commitment to my wife of twenty years - now, that is of value to us. 

The term eunuch in the reference is interesting in that they were 
despised and also often held positions of great influence and power. 
They were also precluded from entering the temple by Judaic law. And 
that none of them engaged in sex is nonsense. Some were as the passage 
indicates born - these included hermaphrodites and men with undescended 
testicles. The literature of the seraglio indicates functional, but 
sterile eunuchs were employed to keep the harem 'entertained' between 
infrequent encounters with the husband. An odd (to my way of thinking) 
interpretation has been made by others that the biblical reference 
above is to homosexuals! So, you see, your right could be my wrong and 
someone else's plain weird.

Just some long-winded thoughts and suggestions,

Love & LAUGHING LIGHT
DAN-RF



Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 
From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: blowing lightbulbs

Natha,
Thank you, very interesting thought, could you elaborate a bit more, I am not
very good at all the long names and terms... But I would like to know more.
 Thanks very much!  When ever you have time!

Light and Love,
Lori
LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com