kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 149 

Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (cinder)
Subject: Re: ADMIN:  Suggestion for the list

Richard passed this on from someone...

-
>I don't want to judge it but I can't help but notice the effect of crowding
>out a lot of other people and their points of views. Frankly, it is this
>monopoly that makes this site become tedious.

  Oh go ahead and judge it, what the hell.  None of this new age doubletalk
 I'm tempted to say, "Life is like that."  One of the great all purpose
sayings of the current yuga.  Gee, I guess I did say it.

  Cyberspace is virtually  infinitely flexible and can handle lots of
'monopolizing' without breaking a sweat.  There is room for dozens of
monopolies and tons of tediusness... A buffet where people can gorge or
disgorge themselves to their heart's content.

  What I see happen in other quadrants of c-space is that lurkers and
other's eventually learn to speak their hearts and minds as freely as the
'tedious monopolizers' without rules and regulations.  Attempts to regulate
*tend* to suck.

>I thank you as always for your stand on free speech. Still, I wonder, is it
>ever appropriate to ask people to limit their shares to once a day or
>whatever as a policy that is meant to encourage all sorts of people to
>participate (sort of like affirmative action?)...

  Why doesn't the person who wrote this to Richard try saying it to the
people he/she thinks are so tedius....  Has anyone heard the hilarious
Lenny Bruce bit about how policepeople came into being?  I think it is
illustrative of this point.

>Just wondering.....and thinking that a policy like this might cut down on
>traffic and the unecessary type of chat considerably.

  Just delete your favorite 'tedious monopolizers' that is what the ole
delete key is for.  Instead of trying to control or limit the amount of
tedium that flows through the pipes, simply delete.  It'll give you a whole
new sense of power and transcendence.

>Not to say that these individuals haven't contributed...it's more a quesiton
>of what makes this line a success and one that continually stays fresh? To
>achieve this, I think that broad partipation is the key, and that such a
>policy might promote this effortlessly.

  Therefor go forth and contribute and what's more facilitate lurkers and
the quiet folks who have spinal accelerators and duck tape hanging off
their asses to say more.   But... 'effortlessly... right.  Wanna buy a
bridge?  This little indicator word has much in it's forward wake
(fullness).  Avoiding effort is like... hmmmmm.... what is it like?  Let's
have a contest ... Just exactly what is avoiding effort like.  Like
trying to go swiming without getting wet?  Like opening up the heart
without loving?  God... someone help me out with a really fine image.
-
>----------( end excerpt response )-----------------------------
>
>Let me know if you have any thoughts one way or another.

  Richard, you're a gem.  The way you let other people speak for themselves
is  brilliant.

>Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself.
>Desiderius Erasmus
-
  And here is the answer nestled in Richard's sig line... just staring us
in the face.



bye,


kent
-



      Private Communications        GateZone Communications
   ___________________________
   Kent Livingston      kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com         512.443.8855


 
-


Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: av756ATNOSPAMlafn.org (Myron Newman)
Subject: death of ego	

I;ve been skimming through this death of ego thread and it seems to me 
that the death is lasting longer than the opera's fat lady's last song.
If you're going to die, so die already and stop talking about it.
-

Myron



Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: death of ego

At last!! And *long* overdue.  A real good belly aching laugh about this
ego.  May it rest in peace (and give us some) at last, at last!  Thank you
Myron.

Still laughing,
Mary


At 07:29 PM 9/16/96 -0700, Myron Newman wrote:
>
>I;ve been skimming through this death of ego thread and it seems to me 
>that the death is lasting longer than the opera's fat lady's last song.
>If you're going to die, so die already and stop talking about it.
>
>
>Myron
>
>
>
		Mary,
-	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Pessimism, no hope, perhaps dying 

My impression from all your posts is that you choose a negative for 
motivation.
-
There's nothing wrong with this, you have to experiment for yourself.

Why are you so agressive?


>At 11:09 PM 9/15/96, you wrote:
>>Sorry, I have to laugh for a moment. I'm not saying per se that there IS
> a 
>>God. But I'm asking you how you KNOW there is no God. What 
>>I'm asking is: how do you KNOW????
>
>How? how do you know there ISNT? this is a circular arguement, as you can
> see.
>me well, as I said, my personal beliefs are my business, no one elses. it
>doesnt really make a difference, does it? why, are you trying to make a
>choice about this? i really dont understand why you are asking.
>
>if you really need to know, explain your reasons, perhaps in email, and
>we'll discuss it, perhaps.
->
>>What I'm saying here is that none of us knows if we're going backward of 
>>forward, so if you wanna be sure, take a number and wait in line...
>
>i dunno about you but, i'm going forward... :)
>Dan.
>there are always possibilities...
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com

-

Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: circular argument

My intention never was to be right or wrong. There is no right and wrong in 
this matter. How much more clearly can I formulate this: my question was 
quite straight. How do you KNOW? Most people will debate its existence. How 
can you be sure? You, personnally?
-
I don't want to fight, quite the contrary. I'm not a religious person, I 
don't practice. I'm just asking an honest question.

Love to all.


>Dan & others,
>
>>But I'm asking you how you KNOW there is no God. What 
>>>I'm asking is: how do you KNOW????
>>
>>How? how do you know there ISNT? this is a circular arguement, as you can
>>see.
>
>As long as you participate in this so-called "circular argument," you keep
> it
>going in circles.  Lack of reaction will create a space where there is
>nothing to fight or argue with; at that point it dissolves.  How important
> is
>it to you to be "right?"  Not?  Then let it go....
>
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com



Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: NannuATNOSPAMSanctum.com
Subject: Re:  THE PHANTOM
-
> I don't want to judge it but I can't help but notice the effect of crowding
> out a lot of other people and their points of views. Frankly, it is this
> monopoly that makes this site become tedious.

Hell, just start typing, there^s plenty of room here...  I count the minutes
hoping someone will say something...  I feel like the Maytag man, ...just
waiting for people like yourself to jump in and say something!  SPEAK TO
US O NAMELESS ONE!
=8D=8D=8D=8D=8D
-
>
> I thank you as always for your stand on free speech.

...Now your talkin^...
=8D=8D=8D=8D=8D

> it's more a quesiton
> of what makes this line a success and one that continually stays fresh? To
> achieve this, I think that broad partipation is the key,
-
Exactly! ...and that^s why you need to buckle down to that keyboard and get
into conversation!  We -want -YOU!  Don^t let these bullies kick sand in
your face...
--
      CHILDREN of the UNIVERSE,  ...Nannu    



Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 
From: GrandmmaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: death of ego

IN REMEMBRANCE

The will survives and so I'm alive
with an ego so full 
that it drowns out my soul.
And so I must go
against ebb and the flow
with my face in the dual
chaotic renewal
until well through the fear
the storm fades to fear
and my ego defates
and emancipates
to a place where I see
that it's all about me
as I become you
and it's all
dejavu.



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: ADMIN:  Suggestion for the list

At 08:25 PM 9/16/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear List Members,
->
>The volume of mail generated by the list has been a subject of concern to
>many of you.  
>Please take a moment to look over the following suggestion:

hey, its a free country, everyone has their say.

personally i'd like to hear more from the lurkers.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...
-


Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: death of ego

At 07:29 PM 9/16/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I;ve been skimming through this death of ego thread and it seems to me 
>that the death is lasting longer than the opera's fat lady's last song.
>If you're going to die, so die already and stop talking about it.
>Myron

thats pleasant. this is death of the ego, not the physical. but as I already
posted, this thread is at an end. care to share your personal experiences?
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



-
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: kundalini & asanas

ok, onto yoga and kundalini (on topic!)
can anyone explain the weird desire for people to do these "postures", I
find this part of kundalini possibly the weirdest. people who have not done
yoga at all are suddenly doing yogic postures, and they dont even realize it.

its not that they are bad, they stimulate the kundalini. perhaps there is a
psycho-spiritual effect of kundalini making its presence known, driving the
body to create the energy (or whatever) that the kundalini needs more of.

oh well, this gets back to the "weirdness" thread I started a long time ago
on here.

it seems describing our own "weird" events makes it easier for others out
there, this is quite generic as well, so everyone i think is welcome to
share their part of the process and know they arent so weird because
everyone else is having the same thing!

I remember one or two weeks where nearly all the prominent writers here got
strepthroat at the same time. some kind of strange milestone perhaps. 
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Conquer or love?

>>> i think this is
>>>not happening because of the part of me that is still afraid. fear is a
>>>powerful enemy at times.
>>
>>Now there is one hell of an understatement!!!
>
>hehe... yes, but fear exists to be conquered.
-
*******IMHO, fear exists in order to be LOVED.  Conquering implies
confrontation, battle, fight, struggle, possibly death.  Do you do that to a
child who is afraid?  That's what we all are inside!  Love & acceptance don't
imply "doing" anything, just being.  Fear dissolves when love is applied
consistently, persistently.  Personal experience....



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Suggestion for the list

BRAVO Kent to your whole post!!  And especially your last line - thought I'd
bring it home one more time!

>  Richard, you're a gem.  The way you let other people speak for themselves
>is  brilliant.
>
>>Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself.
>>Desiderius Erasmus
>
>*************  And here is the answer nestled in Richard's sig line... just
staring us
>in the face. *************



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Suggestion for the list

To all you listies out there!

>I thank you as always for your stand on free speech. Still, I wonder, is it
>ever appropriate to ask people to limit their shares to once a day or
>whatever as a policy that is meant to encourage all sorts of people to
>participate (sort of like affirmative action?)...
>
>Just wondering.....and thinking that a policy like this might cut down on
>traffic and the unecessary type of chat considerably.
>
>Not to say that these individuals haven't contributed...it's more a quesiton
>of what makes this line a success and one that continually stays fresh? To
>achieve this, I think that broad partipation is the key, and that such a
>policy might promote this effortlessly.

I feel that if the handfull of people that regularly post DIDN'T, there would
be no list.  The rest of you who choose not to participate would be looking
at a blank screen.
-
We DO NOT  crowd out anyone else who wishes to post - SPACE IS AVAILABLE TO
ALL!  When I see a post from someone I have not heard from, I usually send a
thank you note personally to that person, thanking for the sharing.

Those of us that do post regularly WANT to hear from those of you who don't!
 LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD!  The only one stopping you is YOU.  Please do not
blame me - I don't accept it anyway!

I also don't believe we have engaged in unnecessary chat.  Everything that I
have read involves some sort of growth, either physically, mentally,
emotionally, or spiritually, or help for that growth.  Kundalini touches all
aspects of self, in my opinion, so everything is relevent.

Just because what has been posted lately has not helped the writer above,
doesn't mean those posts aren't helping anybody!  I have received personal
notes from people thanking me for my contribution because of what my post
meant to them, even though I wasn't speaking to them directly.

Writer above, please allow those who are getting help, albeit quietly, to
continue to do so.  If you want to be involved in something that is geared
specifically to YOU and your likes, I suggest that that's NOT on any list;
lists are comprised of a multitude of personalities with different
upbringings, opinions, etc.

But, if you want to stay on the list, and want to talk about subjects of
interest to YOU, it is within your power to do so, nobody is taking that away
from you but you.

Love from my heart,  Barb
-


Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: Mike Parr 
Subject: Re: astanga yoga and K

> 
> Mike Parr wrote:
> > 
> > In conventional hatha yoga (yes, there are lots of different
> > approaches
> > Astanga yoga uses many of the poses from Iyengar yoga
>
> In a way, I guess the approaches of Iyengar and Jois are sort of
> opposite. Iyengar stresses minute perfection and detail of form, where
> as in astanga they say that you should just go for it, and gradually it
> will fall into place.  Classic Anal vs. Expulsive??
> 
>
Another thing about most of the 'Yogas' is that they say that a long
period of work involving breathing, postures etc is essential to avoid any
awakening problems - and that, if you do this, K problems are very rare, and
you get a slow awakening.   Is this anyone's experience??
best wishes - Mike



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: ori^ 
Subject: Re: ADMIN:  Suggestion for the list

Dear Richard and listmembers,

>The volume of mail generated by the list has been a subject of concern to
>many of you.  

I agree with this.  At times there are too many posts to wade through
and I reluctantly have to make the decision to delete some of them
without reading them.  Additionally, I know that each message sent out 
to over 100 subscribers who then have to decide whether to read or delete 
adds up to a considerable amount of time and energy which might be better
spent in other pursuits (a point recently made so eloquently by Bill Peay).

>Please take a moment to look over the following suggestion:
>----------( excerpt follows )-----------------------------
>It made me confront the fact that I feel that some people are monopolozing
>the list.

I wonder if we could ask the people who respond the most frequently
and multiple times, if perhaps they could attempt to self-regulate by
either combining email into one message and/or writing to the individuals
(rather than to the list) who they are responding to.  Personally I 
would like to see all of us as fellow listmembers ask each other for
what we need to make this list work.  Admittedly this may differ for
each, but I think that before escalating to administrative regulation,
perhaps we could just say what works and doesn't work... 

>I don't want to judge it but I can't help but notice the effect of crowding
>out a lot of other people and their points of views. Frankly, it is this
>monopoly that makes this site become tedious.

I do have to ask about this... even if someone sends out multiple 
posts, this does not prevent someone else from posting on a whole 
new topic which might generate fresh discussion.  I would really 
like to hear from some of the people who have rarely posted.

As far as the monopolizing goes... maybe it would be good to ask
responders to consider that conversational emails might be better
sent directly to individuals, rather than to the list.
-
>I thank you as always for your stand on free speech. Still, I wonder, is it
>ever appropriate to ask people to limit their shares to once a day or
>whatever as a policy that is meant to encourage all sorts of people to
>participate (sort of like affirmative action?)...

I personally would not want to see an administratively imposed
restriction on number of times per day for posting.  

I would rather try asking the individuals who post many times a 
day, to please stop... and listen... and ask whether or not this 
post about to be sent to the list is truly in the best interests 
of conveying information to 100 or more people.  Is it possible
to hold the response and feel its intent before sending it out.  
****Is this an action or a reaction?****

>Just wondering.....and thinking that a policy like this might cut down on
>traffic and the unecessary type of chat considerably.

I agree that at times there is too much chat.  I am not certain that
a "policy" imposed externally is the right way to go.

I would really like to hear some of the experiences of how people
live, work and play with kundalini in their day-to-day lives.

Richard I appreciate you turning this question over to listmembers
for discussion.

I do get a lot of support from the list, particularly from the 
individual emails I have received.
-
ori^





******************
*   ori^         *
* oriATNOSPAMeskimo.com *
****************** 



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Outwitted

A friend sent this to me this morning.  I loved it & thought I'd share....

>"He drew a circle that shut me out -
> Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
> But Love and I had the wit to win.
> We drew a circle that took him in."
>        [Edwin Markham, Outwitted]



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Freedom 

At 12:42 AM 9/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>At 08:25 PM 9/16/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Dear List Members,
>>
>>The volume of mail generated by the list has been a subject of concern to
>>many of you.  
>>Please take a moment to look over the following suggestion:
>
>hey, its a free country, everyone has their say.
>
>personally i'd like to hear more from the lurkers.
>Dan.
>There are always possibilities...
>
>
   Your right Dan, This is a free country.
   You are free to work.
   There are always possibilities to do some more work. :-)
-   Jim

  Oh, Oh, What did I get into now ?
  I guess it depends on what type of work someone does.
  Some people love their job and wonder why they are getting paid.
  But, then again, someone who has an awakened Kundalini,
  Could be cleaning out sewers and having a good time.
  But what would I know about anything.
  It would be best to totaly disregard this post and delete it.
  
-  Jim



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Re: Screaming and Music


I was listening to a song a couple of days ago. "It's Late" by Queen.
My sterio was on a hundred, pretty loud.
I was standing in the middle of the room screaming along with the song(at
the top of my lungs),
and I was really pushing from my abdomen.
I felt like I was going to slip out in front of my body.  Like I was going
to meet myself or something.
So I stopped for a second because it was kind of scary.
Then I started up again and it happened again.
There was an energy vibration along with the vibes of the music and it was
incredible.
I don't know how to describe it.

I think because I was there in the middle of the song, just screaming, not
caring about anything.
I was becoming the moment, or the song.  It was really beautiful, but also
scary.

Has anyone else experienced something like this from screaming or music or
both?

I will definitely try it again.

Peace and Love
John Halonen



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: melody.gaviganATNOSPAMnvonline.com (Melody Gavigan)
Subject: Re: EGO
-
-> >     The sole purpose of Kundalini is to unite the male and female
-> >aspects of our being. The culmination of this 'union', which is as much
-> >physical as it is mental, results in the birth of a new being, which is now
-> >correctly balanced, whole and complete, and sees the world from a
-> >new perspective. Thus one becomes 'enlightened' as to one's true
-> >nature. 'Awakened', if you will to the bigger picture.
-> >And finally the joy and peace of wholeness, completeness, and totally
-> >unrestricted love.

Please, could you elaborate on this aspect some more, and/or suggest
reading materials on it?
I'm feeling the "joy and peace of wholeness, completeness, and totally
unrestricted love, but where are all these physical phenomena that I'm
supposed to be experiencing in kundalini awakening?

Thanks,
Melody


-
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Origins of Quija

Hi All,

I found out a little bit about the Quija  Board.

William Fuld and Isaic Fuld created the "Talking Oracle" in the 1890"s
They couldn't keep up with all the orders for them, so they sold it to
the Parker Brothers Corporation in 1965,

Parker Brothers then renamed it " Quija Board "

This doesn't tell us much so I will continue my search.

I am trying to find out why William Fuld and his brother created the
" Talking Oracle "

I am relentless in my searches , so stay tuned

Jim



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

From: Mystic Rebel             \ Internet:    (rpmprodATNOSPAMintergate.bc.ca)
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

Her beauty was devistating , never have I ever been that close to someone
that beautiful . Standing beside me , she bent over and whispered in my ear
, Your dead , Awake! A tremendous shock ran right through me , I was
fearfull of what she meant by that . After re-entering my waking state , her
beauty was still haunting me and I could not begin to imagine who she was . 
I began my night shift at ten o'clock that evening , and as I stood there in
the office doorway , talking to Richard , all of a sudden I was rocked by
one of the most exstatic rushes I had ever experienced , it  had enough
power to lift me a couple of inches of the ground . I've experianced waves
of Shakti before , but nothing that came close to this ! They felt like
Bolts of exstatic lighting running from my groin to the top of my head . The
extasy wouldn't ease up and I became completely intoxicated . I tried To
stay on my feet and keep moving , but I was staggering and swaying as if I
were drunk . Soon I began to sing and dance through the halls . 
The inner orgy continued for about five hours of total bliss , without
letting up .People would be getting up soon and I had to do my rounds .
Finally I took out my chanting book and began singing The Kundalini Stavahha
, and slowly I started to come down . Then ! All of a sudden , I understood
who she was , she had come back , the beauty I had seen that morning in
Tandra , she had returned in her true form as my inner mistress ,Shree
Kundalini !


------- FORWARD, End of original message -------

-
--
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him.
They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and 
make fun of it.
Thomas Carlyle



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Music, leaving the body

John:

The sound body is the template for the spirit according to Barbara Brennan in
Hands of Light.  The Esoteric Tibetan Buddhist tradition says the sound body
is the first of the truly spiritual bodies.  It is the 5th body and so is
related to the throat, and the voice.

I find that playing music myself as opposed to listening, or singing puts me
into an altered state.  The sound in my head which is like a crystal
resonating does the same thing if I tune into it.  At night before sleep, or
when I am relaxed, this can cause me to leave my body. I no longer tone,
because I get an affect similar to what you described.

I think what happens is that in some way we become the "sound" which then
causes us to slip into our spiritual bodies for a moment.  Fear does pull you
back.  If you do not resist you can go to some interesting places.  But of
course being earthbound as we are here, we always return eventually.
-
Love Jule



Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 
From: reikiATNOSPAMbbs.pennet.com
Subject: kundalini & asanas

Dan,
   you asked about an explanation for why some people with k assume
spontaneous yoga postures...ect.

    coming from the chi kung end of things, the same thing can and does
happen, when a practioner assumes a chi kung attitude and posture.

the feeling that i get when this happens to me is like, gee the energy
wants to do this or heal that so lets do it....

also, my back keeps getting spontaneously straighter,  sometimes its
pretty funny, because i don't think sit straight, position head, ect.
but it sorta just jumps to a straighter position.

anyway,  have a wonderful awesome day

reikiATNOSPAMhhs.net
john