kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 146 

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: EGO

Hi

EGO is a psychological term impregnated with the connotations of the 
particular school of phychology that uses it.  It is not an objective 
term at all.  Robert Ornstein, in his book, THE PSYCHOLOGY OF 
CONSCIOUSNESS, sidesteps this problem by looking at the process of 
gaining awareness from an esoteric stance rather than from a 
reductionist, psychological position.  Well worth reading.  How can 
something "die" if it is a construct of a psychologist.  For that matter, 
when was it born?  

Perhaps it may be a little more helpful to consider that most people, 
when they worry about the death of ego are really afraid of some form of 
awareness.  In fact, this does not happen as a result of growth.  

Gook luck!

jan



Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: EGO

Hi
 
 EGO is a psychological term impregnated with the connotations of the
 particular school of phychology that uses it.  It is not an objective
 term at all.  Robert Ornstein, in his book, THE PSYCHOLOGY OF
 CONSCIOUSNESS, sidesteps this problem by looking at the process of
 gaining awareness from an esoteric stance rather than from a
- reductionist, psychological position.  Well worth reading.  How can
 something "die" if it is a construct of a psychologist. 
 
 Perhaps it may be a little more helpful to consider that most people,
 when they worry about the death of ego are really afraid of some form of
 awareness.  In fact, this does not happen as a result of growth.
 
 Gook luck!
 
 jan
-


Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Emergence of a higher self

Dannyboy,

>Only ego thinks the children are annoying.  When the ego is transformed (I
>prefer that term rather than death, because nothing EVER dies, the energy
>or
>consciousness just changes to a higher vibration), the children will be
>just
>children, not annoying children.

>>Dan replies:  wrong. children are annoying. i cant stand the brats.

I still stand by my above statement.  I have been "in process" for a few
years now, especially the last 2 months or so, and I've noticed that as
judgement transforms to love and acceptance, what I once COULD NOT tolerate,
I can look at with a smile now.  I know that you cannot understand that right
now as it has not been your experience YET; but I promise you, it's coming to
you too!  And you'll finally go, "Oh!  That's what everybody's been trying to
tell me - I get it now!"  Soon....(:

>>really? hmmm mines supposed to be somewhere around the 27th, but i hope its
>sooner. that way i can have that happen, and on the 27th see Dr. Kason, who
>can clean up the mess. 

I don't feel like their will be a mess then, because you're going through
"the mess" NOW in order to reach the next plateau.

>Last night, I felt like I was falling apart.  I saw myself in my mind's eye
>as actually splitting apart.  So I just layed there in bed & trembled in
>fear
>and hugged my teddy bear!  I feel fine this morning.  I've found myself
>going
>through a lot of fear within the past week and a half.  It feels tumultuous
>(big time!) at the time, but after letting it flow through & loving myself
>in
>the process, I come back to feeling "normal" again.

>>Dan responds:  that sounds like a nervous breakdown to me. oh well, we'll
see i guess.

I have never heard of a nervous breakdown that lasts an hour or less!  It
feels more like the fear one might experience before performing before a huge
audience -  "I want my mommy!"  An actual nervous breakdown is when fears,
phobias, worries, etc. AREN'T allowed to flow through, but stuffed in to damn
up & eventually break.  That takes a tremendous toll on the body & it takes
awhile to recover, and also to learn how "not to stuff emotions" anymore.
 I'm certainly not going through that!

>>so are you like me, impatient, and just want it overwith, or is it moving
>too fast for you?

At times, I just wanted the "world" to stop, so I could get off to rest
awhile.  Right now though, I'm not too impatient because I don't want to be
thrown into the water without knowing how to swim.  What I'm going through
right now is preparing me for a major breakthrough, and knowing that it is so
close now, I am settling down, and just "experiencing."  I will admit that
the clock seems to tick very slowly at times, but only because I'm excited
about this new world I am, and am going to experience.

It helps that my husband and 3 other people that are friends of ours are
experiencing the same types of things with the same timing.  We compare
notes, and find out we must not be nuts, because there are similarities to
all of our experiences (much like this list).  At least, if we get hauled off
to the asylum, we get hauled off together!! (-:
-
I love you, man!  Barb



Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: NannuATNOSPAMsanctum.com
Subject: Re: Re: Ego

> Pardon my possible ignorance, but what does all this have to do with my
> question? you talk about kundalini and balance, etc etc etc at length, =
but
> this seems to have little or nothing to do with what I asked. I'm confu=
sed.
> have you had your ego die, is this what you're trying to say? i have no=
 idea.
> Dan.
> there are always possibilities...


...I think I'll have a cup of coffee...



Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Ego Challenges

At 08:56 PM 9/14/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Dan,
>     I am, like others here, trying to understand why you think this is 
>a sudden event.  Can you describe more what is going on with you...what 
>makes you think that? 

I've outlined that in this thread, but I'll give you a short synopsis.
Basically, at the beginning of the month a voice within me (THE voice),
stated "It is time", meaning, as I thought, that it was my time, you know,
death, i mean, it had all the feeling of such a meaning, and i had just a
month earlier predicted the death of a friend (premonition) which was the
same feeling.
-
So I basically flipped out for a while (wouldnt you?). Here I was thinking
it was my impending death, which in a way it is, but, different. Death of
the ego, not the physical. emergence of the self, er, actually, the spirit.

>     I have been through "nervous breakdowns" that turned out to be 
>spiritual emergencies in reality. But even these seemingly climactic 
>events were actually gradual changes, although that was hard to see at 
>the time. Spiritual emergencies, the feeling of loss of Self, can 
>manifest as symptoms of mental illness and if you don't get the right 
>help, they can really screw up your head.

nope not mental problems. i know that, what with the k and all that have
started within me two months ago (two months ago was my k). anyhow, i dont
think they are VERY gradual. depends what you mean. you see, I have had
NIGHTLY transformative process, relatively like the k, yes, every single
night. and during the day, i have one or two minor ones, every day. kriyas
are a natural occurance (constantly) and sometimes they get really bad.
spiritual emergence process is ongoing day and night now too.

In fact I've been so BORED with it the last week I've been PUSHING it to get
moving, doing everything I can to move it along. Maybe not a good idea, but
nothing I've done has much effect. I think it's time for quiet and reflection.

I have to say i've only had one spiritual emergency. that was my k, because
i didnt know what it was. if i had known, i probably would have handled it
differently.

I've had three nervous breakdowns, only one of which was during a period of
time I was doing spiritual work. It didnt seem to be related. I'm sure if I
thought about it, the whole mess would tie together nicely. :)

>     What's this about the 27th? Please explain.

the 27th is the date of my next appointment with Dr. Kason. I'm just using
it to my full advantage. in other words, if this ego death occurs soon,
which I'm rather sure of, I'd like it to happen on the night of the 26th, if
you see what I mean.  my this is wonderous, that i can laugh at my
own impending doom 
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: EGO

At 07:43 PM 9/14/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi
> 
> Perhaps it may be a little more helpful to consider that most people,
> when they worry about the death of ego are really afraid of some form of
> awareness.  In fact, this does not happen as a result of growth.

Jan, what do you mean: "this does NOT happen as a result of growth" ?
I dont understand that statement, it seems to be contradictory to the
previous statement.

and you're probably right. being afraid of the awareness I mean.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Emergence of a higher self

At 08:00 PM 9/14/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dannyboy,

don't ever call me that. I've killed for less. :)

>I still stand by my above statement.  I have been "in process" for a few
>years now, especially the last 2 months or so, and I've noticed that as
>judgement transforms to love and acceptance, what I once COULD NOT tolerate,
>I can look at with a smile now.  I know that you cannot understand that right
>now as it has not been your experience YET; but I promise you, it's coming to
>you too!  And you'll finally go, "Oh!  That's what everybody's been trying to
>tell me - I get it now!"  Soon....(:

maybe, but i doubt it. the camp counsellor thing will just keep coming back
to haunt me.  as for that statement. yeah, got a vision of a boy scout
knocking on an old wooden door of a house, door has a wreath with a red
ribbonish thing. i have no idea what this means. might be, the nervous, but
adventurous soul, coming to a warm and comfortable place. too bad i never
got to see if anybody answered. :)

>I don't feel like their will be a mess then, because you're going through
>"the mess" NOW in order to reach the next plateau.

oh. well then, in that case, what am i so worried about? this is nothing.
 Ive had worse...

>>>Dan responds:  that sounds like a nervous breakdown to me. oh well, we'll
>see i guess.
>
>I have never heard of a nervous breakdown that lasts an hour or less!  It
>feels more like the fear one might experience before performing before a huge
>audience -  "I want my mommy!"  An actual nervous breakdown is when fears,
>phobias, worries, etc. AREN'T allowed to flow through, but stuffed in to damn
>up & eventually break.  That takes a tremendous toll on the body & it takes
>awhile to recover, and also to learn how "not to stuff emotions" anymore.
> I'm certainly not going through that!

all of my nervous breakdowns (3 I think) were under one hour, maybe under 30
minutes. maybe only 15. the biggy was 2-4 hours. i'm starting to realize
that these may not have been nervous breakdowns at all, but very early
stages of k, even though i was not into spiritual at all (I had gotten out
of it for over 10 years).

>At times, I just wanted the "world" to stop, so I could get off to rest
>awhile.  Right now though, I'm not too impatient because I don't want to be
>thrown into the water without knowing how to swim.  What I'm going through
>right now is preparing me for a major breakthrough, and knowing that it is so
>close now, I am settling down, and just "experiencing."  I will admit that
>the clock seems to tick very slowly at times, but only because I'm excited
>about this new world I am, and am going to experience.

reminds me of one statement recently i made: stop the world, i think i'm
going to lose my lunch.  but i've been pushing myself, doing whatever
i can to get the process going faster. i guess you are right about the
excitement factor 

>It helps that my husband and 3 other people that are friends of ours are
>experiencing the same types of things with the same timing.  We compare
>notes, and find out we must not be nuts, because there are similarities to
>all of our experiences (much like this list).  At least, if we get hauled off
>to the asylum, we get hauled off together!! (-:
-
sure... rub in the fact you have someone special, gee thanks  all my
friends are cyberfriends. and most of them are on this list... :)

>I love you, man!  Barb

 thanks Barb, and much affection your way. :)
Dan.
there are always possibilities...

-

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: Re: EGO

Dan Gahlinger wrote:
> 
> At 07:43 PM 9/14/96 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> > Perhaps it may be a little more helpful to consider that most people,
> > when they worry about the death of ego are really afraid of some form of
> > awareness.  In fact, this does not happen as a result of growth.
> 
> Jan, what do you mean: "this does NOT happen as a result of growth" ?
> I dont understand that statement, it seems to be contradictory to the
> previous statement.
> 

DEATH of the ego does not happen as a result of growth; ego becomes 
reinterpreted in light of ones new awareness.

Sorry about the lack of a direct antecedent to the pronoun there.  

jan
>



-
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: finding K friends

>It helps that my husband and 3 other people that are friends of ours are
>experiencing the same types of things with the same timing.  We compare
>notes, and find out we must not be nuts, because there are similarities to
>all of our experiences (much like this list).  At least, if we get hauled off
>to the asylum, we get hauled off together!! (-:
->

Dear Barb, 

I understand how you would know your husband is going through the same
thing, but how did you find out about the friends????  I need to know.  My
most metaphysical friends have responded by saying "oh, yeah, kundalini.
Doesn't that have to do with sex?"  
AAaarg.
Then an aquaintance will mention a deep itching and I want to find kinship
and shared symptoms but hesitate.  I might say to someone who mentions some
few symptoms "Has your head changed shape?"  and they look at me like I have
2 of them.  So, I give up.  A personal ad in a local newspaper might be my
next tactic to find kundalini locals.   Hence my question.
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Ego Challenges

Dan, you said:

>I think it's time for quiet and reflection.

It certainly seems worth a try.

Mary
-		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Help is on its way!

If you have not read  RUN, don't walk to your local bookstore
and get it.  It will make you laugh and it will speak to your soul.  The sub
titles are:
        The cosmic instruction manual for planetary evolution
        
        An emergency remedial earth edition

The authors are Mission Control and Zoev JHO.

Mine is a tiny little paperback from QPB club.  The book store version can't
cost too much.  I can't recommend it highly enough.
-
Dan, are you listening?

Mary
		Mary,
	The Reluctant Earthling



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Help is on its way!

At 10:37 AM 9/15/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>If you have not read  RUN, don't walk to your local bookstore
>and get it.  It will make you laugh and it will speak to your soul.  The sub
>titles are:
>        The cosmic instruction manual for planetary evolution
>        
>        An emergency remedial earth edition
>
>The authors are Mission Control and Zoev JHO.
>
>Dan, are you listening?

who? me?  I'm not an E.T. (as such) (then again, I'm not human either,
I only look it) but I'll check it out, for the laugh. thanks Mary. 

Still in the throws of emergence...
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: Re: EGO

           Dear Dan, if you ego died, where would your will to servive come
from? Do you have any possesions? A car, bike, tv, couch, ect....
And can you live your life without them? Could you leave them now Dan, rightnow
and never look back again. Could you for the rest of you meager existance
live in the service of the poor? Could you or any one else on this list truly 
do this now? Is this want you want Dan, anyone? And what about this PC we 
finger away on? We need it to exist? Or could the money have been used to help 
the hungery? I am selfish, My ego gives you this advice( my mouth opens to
speak so I can hear myself preach).


-
                                  Michael



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: Re: Ego Challenges

            Dear Mary, don't try to have "magnitism". Go out to others and 
"magnitism " will come.




                          Michael



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: NannuATNOSPAMSanctum.com
Subject: Re: Ego

^Death of the ego^ is really a bad terminology. It implies death, which is
not the case at all.

Understand that I, like yourself, am not a religious person. I turned my
back on religion because, at the age of fourteen, began to realized it was
bullshit. But what I have found is that although men, in there lust for
power and greed, ^distorted^ the knowledge handed down from those who
discovered the truth,  the knowledge itself is quite valuable.

When I wrote the following, I meant exactly what I said:

The only thing that changes is ^HOW^ you perceive the outer world.

     The sole purpose of Kundalini is to unite the male and female
aspects of our being. The culmination of this 'union', which is as much
physical as it is mental, results in the birth of a new being, which is now
correctly balanced, whole and complete, and sees the world from a
new perspective. Thus one becomes 'enlightened' as to one's true
nature. 'Awakened', if you will to the bigger picture.

__________________________

Do not be misled by the simplicity of what I said in the above process,
which is what you are going thru now.  One^s ego, which is the you that
^thinks^, realizes it^s true position in the hierarchy of one^s being. This
takes place thru ^experiencing^  the part of you that you are not aware of
as yet.
-
It is a face to face confrontation with the ^you^ that created and
maintains you, i.e., pumping your blood, digesting your food, healing your
wounds, so forth. This ^you^ is INTELLIGENT, and once experienced, the ego
submits to it immediately. This is what is called ^death of the ego^. But in
actuality, a ^union^ of the two takes place, and one expands beyond their
normal state of ego.

In order for this process to take place, all other avenues of possibilities
must first be exhausted. One must come to the end of his rope, so to
speak, wherein there is nothing to grab onto. Nothing left to believe in, all
concepts depleted, ...the ground falls away from beneath ones feet. It is at
this point that the ^inner being^ makes itself known, for it is only at this
point of ^total surrender^ that it has the opportunity!

Only through the ^experience^ of this phenomena, will you be able to fully
grasp what I=B9m saying here. It feels like your waking up from a sleep that
you never even knew you were in. Hence, the term ^Awakening^.  Another
interesting aspect to this, is that as you ^wake up^, you remember who
...^you really are^...!
-
 There is no way that I, or anyone else for that matter, can put it to you in
such a way that you will ^know^ with certainty what it is that I am
expressing, for as I keep saying, ..only through experience, can one know...
And that^s the name O^ that tune!



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergence Network

Melody Gavigan wrote:
> 
> All,
>         I am in a small subgroup list that we call "Spirit"
> and I wanted to share here about a resource I found called
> The Spiritual Emergence Network. It is a contact center in California
> that you can call and get the number of a "Listener" or of a
> clinician who is experienced and supportive of spiritual emergence.
> Their phone number is (408) 426-0902. Sometimes they have a recording
> on, but I got a live person today. I am now the contact "Listener"
> for Northern Nevada. I don't know much about the Network yet,
> but they are sending me information in the mail. I sincerely
> hope it is not a front for Scientology, so I would not want to
> lead anyone astray. I will let you know more when I get their
> packet in the mail.
> 
> Melody
> melody.gaviganATNOSPAMnvonline.com
-
Melody, HI let me know what comes out of this. I wouldn't mind helping
out if it was something that was legitimate. Do you live in Reno? If so,
let me know and we will talk. Gloria Joy Greco



Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Quija Boards
-
jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu wrote:
> 
> When and where did the Ouija boards originate?  Is it just some thing
> somebody made up?  Is or was it just a form of divination?  How is it
> effected by the mood or spirit or intention of the user(s)?
> 
> Mac.
> 
> On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, John Carlson wrote:
> 
> > > I have heard that Ouija Boards attract low level spirits. Some say the
> > > Devil runs it. I think it's just better to be avoided because the future
> > > comes soon enough.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > ATNOSPAM
> > The thing that someone told me about a Ouija board sticks in my mind.
> > "We threw it in the fire, and it started screaming."
> > Perhaps you could try this out?
> > John

>Someone would have to do some research on it, I'm sure it's been around for a
long time. But, I won't use it at all. I've never heard of anything good coming
out of it. Now there is a new form of one with angels, but it seems like just
another gimick. Gloria>
> >


-
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: Dan and His Ego

HowardCushATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:
> 
> When I began the awakening process, or should I say when IT began ME, I was
> very anxious about what would happen to me.  Would "I" die?  Would everything
> I believe in change?  Then, I had a small epiphany.  The ego will not go
> away, as long as I am alive.  It is impossible.  The ego is the aspect of
> human life that allows for survival and functioning.  It is not good or bad,
> it just is.  Without an ego, the very functions of life -- eating, pooping,
> emailing -- would be impossible.
> 
> Once I had this realization, I relaxed a lot.  I'm relating this personal
> experience because in my own opionion, Dan's questions about the death of the
> ego don't quite compute.  In fact, his posts themselves, especially about
> annoyance with others, in which he says he feels less ego, to me seem FILLED
> with ego.  This is an observation, not a judgment.  The very fact of
> annoyance is an ego-based concept.  Without an ego, who or what would be
> annoyed?  I notice, in addition, that Dan has a very unique and personal
> style of communicating, filled with ""s and jokes and a kind of ironic
> self-mockery.  Even as he comes closer to this sense of an ending, the posts
> seem ever-more filled with that Dan-ness.
> 
> I notice, in myself, this constant need to interpret, and to wring meaning,
> from every event, both little and transformational.  I guess this is human.
>  As I go through my own experience with Kundalini, I keep dedicating myself
> to "Beginner's Mind," or the "Don't Know" place.  When I get out of my own
> way like that, stuff moves quickly.  The paradox is that I always return to
> the ego, no matter how "out there" or expansive the experiences.  However, I
> come back with a softer hold on things and a greater acceptance of
> everything, ESPECIALLY the ego.
> 
> Richard Moss, in "The Black Butterfly," says that the fullest and most
> glorious spiritual experiences are the ones that can be incarnated in this
> body, in this world, in this plane, in this moment.  I accept that as my
> ultimate challenge.  Moss values the experience of being around such an
> integrated being as far more valuable than, say, a channeler who has to leave
> his/her own body and being in order to receive non-physical information.  He
> believes something like "A Course in Miracles," which was channelled, is in
> many ways less relevant to being a human being in the present moment than
> something which can be expressed locally and physically.  This has great
> resonance for me.
> 
> So, as a counterpoint to Dan, as he approaches the "death of the ego,"  I've
> attmepted to share my own approach.  My own prayer, for my own being, is to
> open and soften and expand the breadth and depth of my ego, to bring more of
> the Self into the self.  In this process, nothing dies.  In fact, it is my
> hope that greater awareness is constantly being born.  I've seen how, in full
> contemplation of my death, this awareness seems to blossom.  For that I am
> grateful, and I know that when my ego dies, and my body dies with it, a new
> chapter of that awareness will be born once more.

Excellent communication, I would go into death of ego on an totally
different level, this inner happening is a mystical death which creates
fruit. The fruit is a very high pure frequency of light and love that is
totally opposite in frequency to that of the little self, the self is
personal, the apsect of Christ Consciousness that absorbs our essence
into the whole is universal and impersonal. The I... me.... feeling is
totally replaced with I AmNess which is the Holy Spirit in movement
within the total dance of spirit. Life becomes doing and being, it is
not thinking, trying, wondering, feeling, desiring etc?? Gloria