kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 133 

Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 
From: Iver Juster 
Subject: Tantra

Mark, you asked how I came to find Tantra, and what is it?

I took a workshop on Tantra, and fell in love, or found like I was home at
last. In fact, many believe that Tantra is the spiritual home of the k energy. 

Tantra itself has many schools...I feel for me the best description comes
from Osho, who wrote Tantra, The Supreme Understanding...based on the
ancient text called the Song of Tilopa, as written down by the disciple
Milarepa...or something like that.

Tantra is about energy, just like the k...Of celebrating it, managing it,
flowing with it.
-
Tantra says there is only now. Even the past and future are part of now. 

Perfect means complete. As  there is only now, we are all perfect.
Everything is. We learn more and more in Tantra to love and embrace the now,
as is, for it is here that we find enlightenment. There is nowhere we need
to go, we can just the divine cosmic bliss to enter us as much as we are
willing to have.

Everything is sacred. Sex, love, spirit, people, and so on.
-
Like a fish who found water, like a girl falling in love with her soul mate,
is how I knew Tantra. I am blessed to choose a religion consciously as an
adult, rather than having to struggle with what I was given mindlessly by
the culture, which never made sense to me.

I believe that Tantra has supported me tremendously in understanding the k
better. Many people in our Tantra circles have experienced k. We dance, and
shake, and party, and let it flow, we celebrate and honor it. We pass it
around, we let it fill the air.
-
Hope this helps.

Love, Patti



Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Tantra
-
Patti:

Why is Tantra always associated with sexual acts and intercourse. Is it a
guide to spiritual love making, or a fancy word for (ya know). I mean no
disrespect by the way. I'm just curious?

Mark


-
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Hell on Earth

Dear Group members:

What I am about to share may turn some of you off so if it does just
delete this message because I don't want to offend. I woke up this morning
after a dream which I described in a previous e-mail, and got a call, for
a temp job interview.As things would have it, I get ready and go. I'm now
going to disclose something very embarrassing and personnal to me to you
all. Besides Anxiety, I suffer from what's called "Irratble Bowel
Syndrome" Basically, when you gotta go, you gotta go. I've done much to
overcome this disability through prayer, meditation, mantra, therapy,
medical exam, and dtermination. I've come a long way in the three yesrs
I've suffered this condition. Bascally, I soiled myself on the subway in
midtown manhattan. I felt terrible. Yet, I marched on because I was
prepare with extra underwear, etc. I got to the building and ended up on
the wrong floor, an abandoned floor. I couldn't hold myself again, and
went in an anbandoned room. After cleaning myself in a bathroom on another
floor, that I was lucky to find, I still looked a mess. I was sweaty, my
suit was dirty, you get the picture. But I still inteviewed because I was
there. I failed the typing twest and was brushed off by the temp agency.
The reason why I've disclosed this embarassing story is because I feel
terrible. I've come a long way in trying to overcome many obstacles. I
earned a BA and Masters and for 8 months, I can't get a job, not even a
temp job because I have a slightly paralyzed arm that makes me only to use
one arm typing 30wpm which is slow inNYC. I don't know what to do. I try
and try and fail. Ifeel like God has forsaken me or I'm cursed or
hopeless. Why can't things work out?! There I said it. Any advice? Wisdom,
Help!



Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: has anyone else felt this?

I did just that for so long, letting go. It went well for quite some time and 
I felt quite happy with my choice, but for the last few weeks, I felt like 
I've been left alone, cut off from whatever was helping me. And the level of 
energies has risen quite a lot. I feel I'm on the verge of something very 
important that's going to happen to me, but this something is taking its own 
sweet time. I know I have to be patient, but sometime I'd like to be able to 
flip a switch and get a break from all this.

It's getting hard to take. It's like somebody is speaking chinese to me. 


>At 11:06 PM 9/2/96, you wrote:
>>I'm way behind with my reading of the list. But there's one thing that
> bugs 
>>me: in all the books I've read, they each have their own opinion on what
> can 
>>be wrong with chakras: working too much, not enough, not activated, 
>>activated, etc... The thing is that I think nobody knows for sure. I'll
> have 
>>to wait and be dead before I know why all this energy is about to engulf
> me. 
>>The energy I feel at the 3rd eye and the crown chakras and the feet and
> knees 
>>is so strong that I think I'm losing it. I've tried so many techniques,
> they 
>>work for a time only. I think some of you are so lucky to have angels or 
>>others visit you. I feel I'm at the end of my rope.
>
>I suggest you read the "Loss" thread that has come up recently. This is all
>quite "normal" (if you'll excuse the expression).
>
>the key is relaxation. I know it's hard, and for me, my outlet, and perhaps
>my way of avoiding the harshness and things is perhaps a bit to hide behind
>also, is humor. As they say laughter is the best medicine.
>
>Tonight I was thinking of various things and going through a small crisis
> of
>such that you and others here have faced, and I myself have many times
>before, and suddenly I was talking (in my mind) with a "friend" (telepathic
>link I guess) and I heard them say something in my mind in answer to my
>thoughts.
->
>Suddenly I was laughing hysterically, literally rolling on the floor, and
> it
>was pretty "bad" just when i thought I couldnt take any more or it was
> about
>to drift off my mind (subconcious) popped in another thought, additive and
>again I was in the throws of uncontrollable fits of laughter, this went on
>for a good 15 minutes, its is the most joy I have felt in a long time, and
> I
>am very much thankful for it, but also at a loss to understand why, except
> I
>needed it probably.
>
>I guess I could say my "key" element for moving through this as seemingly
>easy as it seems (and believe me, the ease in which I do move through this
>is just a false front I show to others, but that is also important in this
>context), anyhow, the "key" item is I've really decided NOT to FIGHT the
>energy any more.
>
>I grew tired fighting it, and it drained me. I've surrendered to it. Not
> all
>of it, but at least part of it. I still have blocks, and am fighting parts,
>but I've not only made the choice to move WITH the energy, I've actually
>done it, conciously decided to give in, let it take over, I have nothing to
>lose really.
>
>after this choice, and an "aftershock", today i spent about 7 hours
>sleeping, completely wiped out for reasons still unknown to me, except
>perhaps that I needed it.
>
>I know its hard, and what I say is just words, and its sometimes easier to
>say things than do them, and even saying something conciously  doesnt
> really
>mean that you've accepted it on all levels, or your inner self or anything,
>I have trouble with that too you see. 
>
>Since I've chosen this path, happiness is more bountiful, yes the problems
>still arise, and yes the feelings return and I understand completely, and
>even knowing someone else (yet another) out there going through this
>relieves me as well, so knowing I am still going through this time and
> again
>and am still here should help you too.  and there's always Mark too.
>Dan.
>There are always possibilities...
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Direct Experience

Quite to the contrary, kundalini is a science once your at one of the moment.
This is not something new at all, my suggestion is to wipe out all thought
forms that create a negative energy around any part of the experience. Gloria



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: "K" and emotions etc

Jule, I don't agree that k gives you instant connection to your higher self,
as long as there is duality at work within ones life, one must align with
divine will to reach the Christ frequency and be aligned to higher awareness.
It is a false thought that k is an automatic ticket to this, everything needs
to be tested. Awareness is the key. Gloria


-
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: kundalini and me.

Dan, Those subjects do come in when spirit has a purpose for it, but if we
are all aligning to the energies of divine will as a group, it will come
through an absolute different frequency. If there are enough people
interested in moving in this direction I will work with you on it. We can do
it as a small group and connect up at my e-mail, or as the whole list. Why
not have everyone sleep on it, those who feel drawn to this let me know
tomorrow or in a few days. I have seen it on another dimension, so I am sure
that I have been contacting quite a number of you this way anyway, but it is
possible to discipline the mind, center in on divine will, and do a rather
miraculous movement as a soul group. Please, don't think anyone has to do
this, it is a rather serious kind of commitment, once you've gone into it ...
there is no turing back. And, each person must be receiving the direction
from their soul in order to get the message that will carry it forward. Let's
sleep on it. Gloria

-

Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Inner lights

Chris,
See your doctor and if there is nothing going on with your retina you know it
is just your frequency changing and your seeing the energy as it comes in.
This is part of kundalini's moment but it is much more then that. Gloria
-


Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: has anyone else felt this?

Snowbird,
I have a different suggestion for you, get your mind off of all symptoms
period. Go into Divine Will, strenghen your faith, learn to let go and not
push the river ... and become accepting of all experiences regardless if you
would term it negative or positive. You can neutralize this energy by simply
giving up connecting your thoughts and emotions to it. This is very very
important, I can't tell you how much you create by doing this, against
yourself.It just causes you to spin out. It isn't necessary to follow this
pattern, all of it can be totally eliminated by moving your whole being,
body, mind, soul and spirit into thy will and not mine be done. Everytime you
find your thoughts going to the body with thoughts, monitor it, don't feed it
... observe it. Simply watch yourself think it through, when you don't put
emotions or feeling into it, it will dissolve. It is an illusion, the self
will keep you spinning if you let your focus go to it, this is the test.
Believe me on this one if you can. Love ya... Gloria



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Hell on Earth

Mark,
You need to go to your states Executive Commitee for employment of the
Disabled, you would get put to work probably real fast. I published a
newspaper here in Reno for 12 years and worked closely with the governor's
office for Nevada. Each year a published a special edition that was developed
to bring people with some form of disability into the mainstream. Miracles
happened from the time we started until the 12th year, we got many awards for
this. Nevada has progressed a lot, I would think you have a strong service in
New York. Anyway, it is worth checking into it, this may be a slight
disability, but it is effecting you in the market, so you need just a little
cushion that is provided by law to have the chance that you need. Don't be
hung up on being disabled, non of the people are disabled even when they are
in wheel chairs, it is the dignity of work and participating that is
important. Let me know if you are open to this. I could even give you my
contact in Reno who would tell you how to go about it. Gloria



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: has anyone else felt this?
-
Richard, 
Please write me sometime tomorrow if you can, I would like to discuss what is
coming to me with you. Have you been able to get into my book enough to
understand what I am saying here? It would be a very interesting step out on
faith, wouldn't it? Gloria



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Hell on Earth

I am very open to this. Please give me your contact in Renoand thank you.

Mark



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: Mike Parr 
Subject: hello from Mike

> Hi from Mike
> as a new member to the list, I thought I would intro myself.
> 
> I seem to be getting the stirrings of K...
> 
> Ive been into (and out) of yoga for many years, but never really
> had any unusual experiences.  I did a few months of astanga yoga
> recently- it includes specific gaze points (e.g 3rd eye) and 
> also a gentle 'mula bandha' (perineum contraction). Things began
> to happen!! - a sense of energy flow up the spine, a feeling that
> I was one of many experiencing this thing simultaneously....
> i.e nothing amazing, but things I interpret as encouraging.  And
> there's those yoga backbend images I get in dreams....
> At the moment I'm working with a book from the Bihar School of
> yoga, called 'Mula Bandha - the Master key'.
> 
> So, I guess I cant help people much on the list - but I find
> much to encourage me on this list - espec the messages which
> say... 'this is happening to me also,..
> I wondered if anyone else was using similar approahes, and 
> also whether all K arousals are sudden, rather than gradual.
> 
> best wishes - Mike
> m.parrATNOSPAMshu.ac.uk
> 


-
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: HowardCushATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Science and Kundalini

Science, as I understand it, is about what can be seen, quantified or
measured.  Which is why quantuum mechanics is so challenging -- things don't
act in a clearly predictable way at that level.

The Vedic seers may have had great truth and great discipline, but only my
experience of their truth makes it meaningful to me.  The post about this
mentioned "nadis."  This is a common term in yoga, but you can't see or point
to them.  Same with prana.  Something like prana exists for me because part
of my spontaneous awakening involves involuntary breath of fire stuff.  And I
ask myself -- who is breathing?

Groups like Scientology also point to how the world works, and provide
elegant theory and evidence.  For every truth there is another.  One yogi
suggested I could only cure my K related constipation with special breathing
for an hour a day.  Another source said special asanas.  Both sources claimed
a science to their recommendations, when in fact it was observation of
personal experience.

The path of my own K energy is both predictable and then wildly
unpredictable.  I promise myself over and over to surrender all the way and
trust.  It feels like this trust is what allows it to move through me, and do
it without dismembering me at the same time.  Many people with K do
spontaneous asanas, so do I.  But I bet there are many whose K awakenings
look totally different.

Great wisdom is available all the time, from many sources.  In my own
experiences, two rules seem to apply.  1) The bigger the front, the bigger
the back.  2) The more humility that comes with the teaching, the more
resonance it has in my consciousness.



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Flight 1231 & Agnostic Prayer
-
My wife and I flew to Phoenix on August 29 for vacation. We left L.A. 
aboard Southwest Flight 1231 - a 737 - at 10 P.M. after an uneventful 
first leg from San Jose.

We were greeted to the Phoenix airspace by a spectacular and 
frightening display of lightning striking all around the aircraft. 
Things appeared to be well in hand, but soon we realized that we were 
circling the city and not landing. A terse message from the pilot 
explained that we were being held up waiting to land, but no real 
explanation was given. My wife and I were sitting on the port side over 
the wing - I on the aisle and she next to me (the window seat was 
empty). I was reading THE CELESTINE PROPHECY that everyone has been 
pestering me to do.

The plane went into an approach after one half hour of circing without 
any word of explanation from the pilot. There was the usual buffeting 
about of the plane from winds and shortly we were able to see the 
runway clearly below us. Suddenly, the mild buffeting of the aircraft 
changed to violent pitching, yawing, and fishtailing. (I have flown for 
over 30 years; military, commercial, in weather from fair to hurricanes 
and have never been in a craft that was that close to total loss of 
control.) I was trying to present a calm exterior to my wife by 
appearing to continue reading, but mentally I was certain that we were 
all going to die. Others were screaming, one man behind me was laughing 
hysterically, my wife was gasping and screaming and then grabbed my arm 
and said, "Let me hold you."

I immediately closed the book and inserted it into the seat pocket and 
placed my right hand over her trembling fingers that were clutching my 
left arm as she buried her face in my shoulder. I, myself, was trying 
not to shake and it took real strength to keep from yelling and 
panicking myself. Then the thought occurred to me that this was one of 
those points where people who are religious would pray - I instead 
decided on another irrational course of behavior. If taking control of 
this uncontrollable situation was possible, I was going to do so. I 
closed my eyes and plummeted, like a high-diver, into a profound 
meditative state. I visualized my arms as elastic and stretched them 
out through the body of the plane to the very tips of the wings. 
Curling my fingers around the wingtips, I grabbed them firmly and 
pulled in on them to force them to stabilize. Instantly, the plane 
levelled and without a vibration began flying straight. As soon as that 
happened, I intellectualized, "What an idiot, this isn't physically 
possible!" I mentally relaxed the imaginary grip on the right wing and 
immediately the right side of the plane came up and started to roll 
over to the left. I grabbed again and again the plane levelled at that 
precise moment. The plane did not bobble once as I continued my grip 
until I heard the passengers and flight attendants cheering the pilot 
for making a safe landing.

Is there any philosophical difference between the religious asking 
their deity to intervene in the physical laws of the universe and the 
agnostic imagining that he can use the universal force of the kundalini 
from within to do the same?

The only things that are verifiable, from the observation of my wife, 
are: that I suddenly closed my eyes and became rigidly serene, that the 
pitching and fishtailing of the plane stopped coincidentally at the 
same time with only one sudden roll to the left, and that she also 
became calm and felt safer as a result.
-
While THE CELESTINE PROPHECY presents several ideas that I personally 
view as overly simplistic and arguable, there are many 'insights' =-), 
that are profound. One passage seems to speak to me, "Naturally, Julia 
found herself wanting information about spirituality but insisting that 
it be intelligible and precise. p.142." Why do I keep telling others, 
"There are things about which there is no knowing, only belief or 
disbelief" and then not listening myself?

LOVE DANananda  =-)
-
ps: I have gone without any psychic experiences since that day.  This 
is the second time that I have had a psychic interlude following a 
highly-charged emotional event. I think that my 'batteries' are just 
recharging and the 'circus' will start anew shortly.



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: "Alvin T. Perhacs" 
Subject: "YIN MEDITATION" 

I have had several people ask me to go into more detail on Yin 
meditations. To be fully complete in the internal realm you must have the 
balance of yin/yang, which really applies to just about everything in 
life. Most peopel involved in Chi Training do a lot of yang type training 
as this is a quick way to see the power of the energy and neglect or are 
ignorent to the specific yin exercises that balance the chi.
 
There are many types of yin meditations, but I will cover one that is is 
a basic yet advanced meditations, which means there is more to it than 
one would originally expect. I have found that most methods work, but 
that either they are not done enough or long enough to get the benefits. 
The key with Chi Training is PERSISTANCE AND CONSISTANCY. Without out 
these 2 you could have the best info in the world, but if you don't apply 
it, whats the value?
 
This meditation is a lying down meditation that should be done at night, 
because it has a tendancy to relax you, whereas a yang meditation at 
night would most likely keep you more awake. This is one of the most 
relaxing meditations and will help you to train the body to feel the chi 
as well as form the necessary flow patterns. This meditation can give you 
dramatic results the first time you do it.
 
   1. Lay down on a bed or on the floor with legs & arms spread 
      comfortably with palms facing down.

   2. Relax the entire body from toes to the fingers( and every joint in 
      between). Speak to each body part to "relax".
 
-   3. After you have relaxed the body,feel the chi in the body and 
      mentally concentrate and move the chi from arms to legs to 
      extremities. Keep telling yourself that you are relaxed. 
   
   4. Feel the entire body and work to bring a pulse to any area that you 
      think about

   5. Continue this for 20-30 minutes, everyday if possible.
 
This is simple, but builds the muscle memory of chi in the body and helps 
you to recognize the body in a relaxed state. This meditation will cool 
down yang energy, so that your energy has a more pleasing element to it. 
Yang energy when emitted from the body will repel and yin energy will 
attract things or people to you.
 
Do not discount an exercise like this as it has much more to offer than 
it's relaxing benefits, but you won't find that out until you do it on a 
daily basis. Moving chi is a consious event in the beginning, but as you 
get more developed, you will do this from the "muscle memory" or 
subconsious portion of the brain.
- 
This exercise combined with Standing Meditations,Blood Washing,Chi 
Packing, Vortex Rotations and other 
exercises is what a complete chi developement program is all about. Most 
do some but usually miss something in the process. You must train the 
entire body to get good at chi manipulation, which means opening the 
energy channels in the body, head, arms and legs.
 
This may seem like an advertisement and maybe it is, but I am in the 
process of putting together a Advanced Chi Training Video (with the help 
of one of my instructors) that will cover 
all of the neccesary elements in order to externalize chi better. I will 
guarantee this video for 90 days or your money back as the techniques are 
tested and will give you results. 
 
I also wanted to comment on several posts that I have read where it is 
stated that you are building chi just by doing exercises. This is 
correct, but it is so minimal that unless you are doing specific chi 
building exercises (Tai-Chi is not one of them!) you will not build up 
enough chi to externalize it. There is a difference between surging the 
chi to emit it and sending it out as a steady flow.
 
I have also read where someone has said that a Chen teacher claims to 
never have seen someone emit chi. This is ridiculous and I feel sorry 
that this person has not felt an externalization of the chi. Just because 
some Chinese guy has never experienced it does not mean that it does not 
exist. I have seen it and felt it and can confirm it. I am bold in my 
views based on my experiences.

I can feel the "Flame Throwers" turning on as I write this, so I will 
get ready for your responses to this post.
 
Respectfully
 
Al Perhacs



Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: Flight 1231 & Agnostic Prayer

Wow



Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 
From: guavaATNOSPAMix.netcom.com

Dying Child
-
My friends six year old boy was just diagnosed with terminal liver
cancer.  Little Jim would love whatever cards you could send in the few
months he has left:

Jim Boshart
388 Greenwich St.
New York, NY 10013

His parents thank you and I thank you.  May your cheer give him a bit more time.