kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 120 

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: John Marynowicz 
Subject: Re: Psychosis vs Spiritual awakening (was: K and CFS)

At 03:38 PM 8/26/96 -0700, ori^ wrote:
>>On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Royale Jills wrote:
>>
>>Since people apparently experience symptoms of psychosis durring a K. 
>>awakening, what guide lines does someone use to understand whether a 
>>person is psychotic or an emotionaly healthy person experiencing K?
>
>Sorry folks, I forwarded that last post without a response...
>Had intended to refer to some materials I have at home, but I'm not
>there now :)
>
>The Spiritual Emergence Network deals with some of these very 
>aspects.  I have a whole notebook full of suggested ways to 
>differentiate between spiritual awakening and psychotic episodes.
>From what I have seen this was part of the reason SEN was formed
>was to help educate professionals and lay people about the differences.
>

Hi

My name is John and I've been following this list for about a month now.
It's become one of my favorite daily reads (although the inevitable prolific
volume is somewhat hard to keep up with).

My own experience with K has gone from intellectually coming to know about
it to profound life changes.  I can't really point to any one momentous
kundalini episode but there has been a constant gradual increase in many of
the same things so many of you have reported.  

The last couple of years I have had constant sound like bees inside.  A few
months ago I started meditating regularly again after many years of not
doing so and I am experiencing constant activity of lights (as if someone
turned on a light in the room even though no one has) as well as being able
to occasionally clearly see the room I'm in although my eyes are closed.
One time our cat Cleo, without making a sound, came into the room while I
was meditaing.  I saw her come in and when I opened my eyes there she was!
Other things include quitting smoking literally overnight without even
trying.  That's right, after over 20 years of smoking I woke up one morning
and had completely lost all urge to smoke.  It was gone.  That was about 2
years ago and I haven't smoked since.  I'm not really sure if I can
attribute these things to K, but so far it seems to be the most likely cause.

Anyways, the reason I finally mustered up the courage to join in was this
question about pscychoses and Kundalini.  Recently, through an act of
synchronicity, I came across a book which addresses this question very well.
It is written by someone who once belonged to the same meditation group I
belonged to many years ago.

The book is called:

"A FARTHER SHORE - HOW NEAR DEATH AND OTHER EXTRORDINARY EXPERIENCES CAN
CHANGE ORDINARY LIVES".
-
It is written by Yvonne Kason, MD and Teri Degler.  Yvonne and Teri are two
of the founding members of the Kundalini Research Network.  Other founding
members include Russell Park, PhD and Megan Nolan PhD, board members of the
Spiritual Emergence Network, which ori^ referred to.

The book is a well written look into the current state of scientific
research and knowledge in the field of Kundalini.  Perhaps a look at the
Chapter titles will help illustrate the scope of this book.

Ch 1)  My Own Near Death Experience
Ch 2)  Spiritually Transformative Experiences
Ch 3)  Mystical Experiences
Ch 4)  Classical Kundalini Episodes.
Ch 5)  Near-Death Experiences
Ch 6)  Psychic Awakening
Ch 7)  Inspired Creativity and Genius
Ch 8)  The Modern Kundalini Hypothesis
Ch 9)  The Kundalini Research Project
Ch 10) Physical Symptoms of STEs (Spiritually Transformative Experiences)
Ch 11) Psychological Symptoms of STEs
Ch 12) Spiritual and Paranormal Symptoms
**Ch 13) Spiritual Emergencies and Psychoses**
**Ch 14) Who Has Spiritual Emergencies and Why?**
**Ch 15) Strategies for Living with Spiritual Transformation**
**Ch 16) Surviving Spiritual Transformation and Helping Others Survive**
**Ch 17) Stimulating Healthy Spiritual Transformation**

As you can see, the last five chapters specifically address the question
posed in this thread.  It's been a big help to me and I highly recommend it.
-
Thankyou for letting me babble on like this.



Peace and Light
John Marynowicz



-
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy 
Subject: Re: Comments on email lists

"go out laughing and they'll just thing you're crazy"



Love,
Wendy


>From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
>To: kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>Resent-From: kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>X-Mailing-List:  formail -D 8192 msgid.cache
>X-Loop: kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>Resent-Sender: kundalini-l-requestATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>
>Hi: ori^
>
>Thanks ori^ for your comments.  You are the first person that complained
>about a little humor, but I will take your advice under concederation.    If
>people find a little humor in their life offensive then I will of course not
>do it.  I think God must of had some humor or he would not have made this
>life in the first place.  
>
>If any one on the list does not think humor is appropriate here some times
>then please let me know.  I can be dull and mundane if that is appropriate,
>but I see to much of that 24 hours a day.
>
>I might not agree with you, but I accept your right to say what every you
>what to.   If Bill or Dan feels bad by my remarks then they can always just
>send me an E-Mail.
>
>They are my brothers in this life and we all have to evolve our own way.
>
>Love,
>Von  
>
>
>You said:
>------------------------------------------------------
>
>Subj:	Comments on email lists
>From:	mermaidATNOSPAMeskimo.com ()
>
>
>Von,
>I question whether this is really appropriate or necessary
>for the list.
>Maybe this sort sort of joking is better sent directly to
>an individual rather than to over 100 people on a mailing
>list.
>
>Thanks for your consideration,
>ori^
>---------------------------------------------
>
>At 14:27 8/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hi Bill
>>
>>>What does "IMHO" mean?<
>>
>>International  Male  Homosexual Organization.
>>
>>I am surprised at you, Bill:)
>>
>>Von
>
>



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy 
Subject: think

rewrite
sorry 

>To: Kundalini
>From: Wendy 
>
>"go out laughing and they'll just think you're crazy"
>
>
>
>Love,
>Wendy
>
>
>>From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
>>To: kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>>Resent-From: kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>>X-Mailing-List:  formail -D 8192 msgid.cache
>>X-Loop: kundalini-lATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>>Resent-Sender: kundalini-l-requestATNOSPAMexecpc.com
>>
>>Hi: ori^
>>
>>Thanks ori^ for your comments.  You are the first person that complained
>>about a little humor, but I will take your advice under concederation.    If
>>people find a little humor in their life offensive then I will of course not
>>do it.  I think God must of had some humor or he would not have made this
>>life in the first place.  
>>
>>If any one on the list does not think humor is appropriate here some times
>>then please let me know.  I can be dull and mundane if that is appropriate,
>>but I see to much of that 24 hours a day.
>>
>>I might not agree with you, but I accept your right to say what every you
>>what to.   If Bill or Dan feels bad by my remarks then they can always just
>>send me an E-Mail.
>>
>>They are my brothers in this life and we all have to evolve our own way.
>>
>>Love,
>>Von  
>>
>>
>>You said:
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Subj:	Comments on email lists
>>From:	mermaidATNOSPAMeskimo.com ()
>>
>>
>>Von,
>>I question whether this is really appropriate or necessary
>>for the list.
>>Maybe this sort sort of joking is better sent directly to
>>an individual rather than to over 100 people on a mailing
>>list.
>>
>>Thanks for your consideration,
>>ori^
>>---------------------------------------------
>>
>>At 14:27 8/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Hi Bill
>>>
>>>>What does "IMHO" mean?<
>>>
>>>International  Male  Homosexual Organization.
>>>
>>>I am surprised at you, Bill:)
>>>
>>>Von
>>
>>
>



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy 
Subject: IRC access info

Hello Everyone,

Several of you have asked for more information about IRC (Internet Relay
Chat) where you can go to chat live.  So here are the basics:

You need an IRC program that allows you to log on to one of the several IRC
areas.  Three popular programs (both available on the www for downloading)
are MIRC, Netchat and Pirch.  You run them just as you would your email
program or your web browser.

Once you have the software needed to access IRC you will need the
"addresses" of where to log on.  I believe the software comes with a few.
The one you need to access IRC Undernet (vs Efnet, Dalnet, Newnet, etc) is :
us.undernet.org   Specific ones are available depending upon where you're
calling in from.  I use several, including: lowell.ma.us.undernet.org and
springfield.mo.us.undernet.org.  Once on, a list can be obtained for a
server closer to you.

Once you're on the Undernet, you can see if anyone is on the kundalini
channel to chat with or open the channel yourself and wait for others to
show up.

To join the channel type:

/join #!kundalini

and you're there!

If no one else is around, you'll be in charge and have a ATNOSPAM next to your
nickname indiciting you are the channel operator (have control over how the
channel is run).

Everyone on IRC uses a nickname to be identified (or not!) with.  

Hope this helps, let me know if you need additional info.

Love,

Wendy

-

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Comments on email lists

Von!

On with the humor!  I'll speak for myself and say that I need to be
child-like more often, full of laughter & wondrousness.  Time to put dull &
mundane in the closet for awhile - childlike & humor deserve equal time!
 (balance, harmony)

Love, Barb ATNOSPAM--}}--}}--



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever felt...
-
Mark,

Rather than being depressed, could you see that ALL parts of you are divine,
that all haved worked together in harmony to create the being you are today,
and will continue to do so, changing, evolving, getting lighter.

As you realize that all aspects of you ARE and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN perfect, to
get you where you needed to go, you can love and embrace them, as perfect
parts of your total beingness.  Without them, you would be a completely
different person, and WE NEED YOU JUST AS YOU ARE!

 As you embrace those parts of yourself that you presently find unacceptable,
you set them free.  That's when the transformation takes place.

Love & Blessings,  Barb



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: kundalini

Dan,

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  K, heightened awareness, overall
perceptive improvement?  I don't know the answer either, but all have been
growing for me too.

I am a bodyworker, and along with the psychic attunement to people's bodies &
emotions, the power of healing seems to have been heightened as well.
 However I got here, I'll take it!

Blessings & Chickens,  Barb (-;



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: reikiATNOSPAMbbs.pennet.com
Subject: Re: JESUS CHRIST
-
hi al,
   i too live in pa, am a martial artist that works with energy... it
almost seems that i could of written your letter to myself.  I started
out in marital arts in an external system in 1979, and also started
studying informally massage, adjustments and reflexology.  my thought
then was it would be nice to fix what i break on my training partners
and students.

as time went on however i found my self becoming a healer who uses
martial arts to heal.  Sorta strange for most to understand but i think
you do.  I started with Chi-Kung and meridian balancing, and have also
added reiki to what i mainly do now.

As a side note, i feel that i am evolving into more of a emotional
spiritual healer than even a physical one, even though most people still
see me doing the physical stuff.

Life gets pretty interesting when your reality becomes more energy -
spirit than physical, won't you agree?
-
as far as k goes, back in 1989 i had been "rooting" for about an hour at
a time, getting the shakes, etc.  i found myself working at the state
prison at camp hill.  We experienced a three day riot, where i was a
hostage.  A lot of interesting things happened there, and afterwords.
I had fun for years being diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder.
 Now i know that kundalini was active.  I'm tired and rambling.  Keep in
touch.

john
reikiATNOSPAMhhs.net



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: has anyone ever felt...

Holly,

There is hope - my pendulum has calmed down quite a bit, and doesn't swing
out so far anymore.  Less drama, more love....

                                                              ATNOSPAM--}}--}}--Barb



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: "end" result
-
Von,

Why do we HAVE to come down to 3rd dimension?  I walk my talk and I'll tell
you, people respond to me differently and vice versa, I am MUCHO happier
living on a cloud than in the 3rd dimension!

Don't worry all, I am still aware of all the trials & tribulations, violence,
etc. that go on in the world.  But don't you see that as I do the work
myself, I do it for the world? For the universe?  WE ARE ONE.  I send love
daily....

Thanks Vonnie! (I keep wanting to call you that!  If unacceptable, I know you
will humorously let me know!)  I agree that Heaven IS here.

Love & Blessings,  Barb(:                                       P.S.  For
some reason, my husband & I have been drinking a beer occasionally at night,
where it used to be only on Friday or Saturday nights!  I know you
understand!
 
-


Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Re: Crying


This morning a strange crying has come over me.
But it feels good to do.
-
Peace and love
John



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Physical symptom

At 11:29 PM 8/26/96, you wrote:
>Has anyone on this list ever experienced his or her skin peeling? Like a huge 
>sunburn?

all the time rarely, from time to time, very minor (tiny bits), never
thought anything of it, even now. never attributed it to k or anything.
could be. shedding outward unneeded layers? dunno, perhaps see a doctor
first though.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...
-


Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: kundalini 

At 08:20 PM 8/26/96 -0700, you wrote:
>What range are people's thoughts coming in?  Must they be in the same
>room, or in conversation with you?  How do you identify whose thoughts
>you are hearing?  Some people don't think in language--if so, how can
>you identify where the thought is coming from?  Do you just intrinsically
>realize where the thought arises?  Is it positional, does it have dimensions?

nothing that obtuse. and not in the same room. so far, what I've noticed is,
it's when I'm talking to someone on the phone (no matter where they are), if
we are having a conversation and I need to ask some questions, the answers
will just "be there", if you know what I mean. Can be anyone, even people I
don't know. I just started having this yesterday, so I haven't played with
it much to expand it, or do whatever (I dunno).
-
I happened to be talking to someone I had not talked to before, and did not
know at all, they were calling me about a network problem they were having,
and the answer was practically "screaming" inside my head. Now I know about
it, I'll be able to listen more for similar types of things.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



-
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Re: Crying


Hello Wendy,

It is a strange cry, I don't know how to exactly describe it. It's like a
feeling welling up from my heart and throat at the same time. It's like I
was feeling alot of emotions that were not my own, but they did also belong
to me. They were lite tears, and as they came out it was like a wind was
coming in through my eyes.

It is tough to describe now that it is gone.

P.S.
I used to waste too many kleenex on a runny nose,  So when I cry I just use
my sleeve.

Funny thing is I haven't had a runny nose since joining this list.


Peace and love,
John Halonen



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Steven Enstad 
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever felt...

heheh

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Mark Rivera wrote:

> Has anyone ever felt that all this kundalini stuff is just another opiate 
> for the soul and most of stuff that goes on is just bull shit because 
> aside from a few people, I find most people, including myself, to be 
> worse than animals and it is very, very depressing.
> 
> 



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Steven Enstad 
Subject: Re: Anonymous Post (Awakening Awry?)

feel your feet on the ground right now
under your desk
feel them perfectly balanced so the weight is even

now

now imagine roots growing from your feet
through the floor
through the foundation of the building
imagine it in great detail
the roots winding
to the center of the earth

the earth is your center

peace and love,

steve



-

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 V487ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> Hi: -Daljeet
> 
> >Von: Beer/wine provides me some relief, but it kills the
>      intoxication Gods remembrance provides me.<
> 
> Yes,  Daljeet and that is exactly why I use beer sometimes.  I have to get
> grounded on this physical level.  I am way over, "  intoxication in Gods
> remembrance."  It gets out of control and then I can not function in our
> every day life. 
> 
>  Do you have any idea how disturbing it is to be talking to some one on an
> important subject then just star floating out of your body.   It is very had
> to carry on a conversation like that so I have to have something to ground
> me.
> 
> -------------------------
> As my friend Jule only knows to well when she says:
> >I do hatha yoga sometimes.   It balances me and relaxes me.  However if I do
> breath work I seem to fly out of my body. As Von mentioned, some of us have
> trouble staying grounded and so that is a real problem.
> 
> Perhaps you know of something that is useful, in which case I think you
> should share it with everyone, because I'm not alone with this problem.
> 
> My meditation is usually guided  imagery with no breath work at all, I can go
> into an altered state at will. 
> 
> I'd be very interested to hear what you suggest.
> 
> Love Jule<
> 
>  and Love,
>        Von
> 
> 

-

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Energy With Messages


It struck me when "student" wrote his message about christianity and Von
replied, "I don't feel anything coming through."
I didn't notice at the time, but when Von said that it hit me.
Even his simple statement had more energy than the "students" entire post.

I was reading Wendy's reply to my crying and it was like a string of a harp
vibrating through my heart.
I hadn't quite felt anything like that before.

It was beautiful. 

I only hope I can do the same for others.

Peace and Love,
John



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Phenomenon

Mary, Are you feeling better? It always passes doesn't it and today is a
beautiful new day. Go for it. Gloria



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Re southern Baptists et.al- Disney

Jule,
I did not know what you posted about Disney, regardless of what some
fundamentalist group thinks about Disney, I think they are doing a great
thing by going against  'public opinion' and supporting their staff.  I will
not judge a person based on there sexuality, and I agree that Disney should
not be boycotted either because they are not afraid to stand up for what they
believe to be right.  I'll get off my soapbox now!  Thanks for sharing this
and everything with us Jule (I know that was only one aspect of your post,
just wanted to add my two cents. :D)

Love and Light,
Lori
-


Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: "end" result

Hi: Barb

>Why do we HAVE to come down to 3rd dimension?  I walk my talk and I'll tell
you, people respond to me differently and vice versa, I am MUCHO happier
living on a cloud than in the 3rd dimension!<

Yes Barb that is right.   I live in the world, but not of the world and like
you say," Why do we HAVE to come down to 3rd dimension."  Heaven has come
down in to my dimension anywayThat's how I feel also.  I can't imagine
working all day long out there with the average unaware person without having
some humor. I would really go nuts.   Come to think about it,  I am happy
also when I can laugh at things in life.   So maybe it also is therapy for
me. Is not laughter the best medicine. 
-
>Thanks Vonnie! (I keep wanting to call you that!  If unacceptable, I know
you
will humorously let me know!)  I agree that Heaven IS here.<

It's ok. You can call me crazy, stupid, nuts or even Vonnie.  But still no
one knows if the name is a male or female. Right?   Names are just titles.  I
never get hung up on names or titles.  You can call me stupid or "your
honor."    I know who I really am and I am you and you are me.  Just don't
call me a man named, "Sue" :)
-
I said that Dan was my brother and he wrote back and said that I was not his
brother and he does not even know me.  Guess I am not in this 3rd dimension
for sure.

>some reason, my husband & I have been drinking a beer occasionally at night,
where it used to be only on Friday or Saturday nights!  I know you
understand!<

No, that went right over my head..:)
-
Thanks Barb for making my day,

Love,
Von



Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever felt...

I think that 
(even without realizing it)
we create our own perceptions; and then become victims of our own 
perceptions
(victims of our selves)

Mac.

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Mark Rivera wrote:

> Has anyone ever felt that all this kundalini stuff is just another opiate 
> for the soul and most of stuff that goes on is just bull shit because 
> aside from a few people, I find most people, including myself, to be 
> worse than animals and it is very, very depressing.
> 
> 


-
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Anonymous Post (Awakening Awry?)

Hi: Steven

You said:

>now imagine roots growing from your feet
through the floor
through the foundation of the building
imagine it in great detail
the roots winding
to the center of the earth

the earth is your center<

-----------------------------------------------------
**Or^   please don't look.  Put your hands over your eyes now or use your
delete button :)


Now, Steven Enstad: 
I did what you said.  Maybe I am imagining to much detail.  Pleaes let me
know.  Yes, I feel the roots growing in my feet and through my feet.
  Through the floor and around my lags.  Around my chair and over the
keyboard and around my monitor then back down and around and around the chair
some more then up and up.  Skip . Then up my stomach and around my neck up to
the 3rd eye and growing out the top of my head.  Vines are coming out my
ears.  I feel a lotus plant inside me.

Yes I've got it now and thanks for your help, but now I am grounded to much.
 How do to I get out?  


Thanks.:)

Love,
Von 
-


Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu
Subject: Re: kundalini

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  K, heightened awareness, overall
> perceptive improvement?  
> 
> Blessings & Chickens,  Barb (-;

excellent question!

Mac



-
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 
From: Steven Enstad 
Subject: Re: Anonymous Post (Awakening Awry?)

ok... another model.

imagine a box of bouncy rubber balls, which are bouncing about because 
the box is being moved.  now imagine the box standing still.

for a while, the balls jostle, but eventually they find the lowest energy 
state and lie still.  

i feel that being grounded is this:  being at the lowest energy state.  i 
have to word that carefully... "lowest" meaning the path of least 
resistance.  

being too grounded is hard to imagine, for me, at least.

the balls falling through the bottom of the box?  
-
-steve



On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 V487ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote:

> Hi: Steven
> 
> You said:
> 
> >now imagine roots growing from your feet
> through the floor
> through the foundation of the building
> imagine it in great detail
> the roots winding
> to the center of the earth
> 
> the earth is your center<
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> **Or^   please don't look.  Put your hands over your eyes now or use your
> delete button :)
> 
> 
> Now, Steven Enstad: 
> I did what you said.  Maybe I am imagining to much detail.  Pleaes let me
> know.  Yes, I feel the roots growing in my feet and through my feet.
>   Through the floor and around my lags.  Around my chair and over the
> keyboard and around my monitor then back down and around and around the chair
> some more then up and up.  Skip . Then up my stomach and around my neck up to
> the 3rd eye and growing out the top of my head.  Vines are coming out my
> ears.  I feel a lotus plant inside me.
> 
> Yes I've got it now and thanks for your help, but now I am grounded to much.
>  How do to I get out?  
> 
> 
> Thanks.:)
> 
> Love,
> Von 
> 
>