kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 117 

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy 
Subject: Michelle: Re: major whoosh

Hi Michelle,

Here goes....

I'm not sure how I'd describe what phase of this I'm in...or even which
chakra, it's all so new to me....but I'm experiencing it in powerful waves
of insight (about personal things....old shit) and less powerful physical
manifestations.  It feels to me as if the energy is cleansing me by keeping
me awake a whole lot!  Last night I was a piece of ice.  Warm blankets and
chamomille tea, not withstanding.  Crying in waves (the salty tears kind I
have mentioned in a previous post) that just seem to take over and do their
'thing' and by mid morning, after a bit of time awake, I felt like I'd shed
ten ton weights of darkness about things that I'd been too "blind" to see?
(I've had three such days of this in a row now.)  

A clear headedness, after being a walking fuzz brain shortly before.  Those
highs and lows that throw you for a loop sometimes since you never know when
they're coming.  Nothing quite as dramatic or intense as when I first
experienced this a few years ago.  But, then, too, I had no idea what was
happening at all! 

I suspect that's why so many seek and find ways of working WITH the
energy...suggestions welcome.  

This phase for me seems to be deeply related to relationship work - past and
present - and how I have repeated patterns which are no longer useful or
necessary.  And ones infused with pain, hurt, anger, fear. My own and those
close to me.  Its as if I can hear the voice of me from the past playing in
my head as I sift all that old stuff through a new larynx - simultaneously.
Going through my divorce has been a major trigger, no doubt. Having been
separated for almost 3 years when the finalization of it (legal) took place
this past week, I was amazed at the stuff that surfaced.  (Scenes, imagery
from the past 24 years of my life,etc.)  Grief, loss, and relief, gains and
renewed Hope all mixed in together.

The combination of Joy and pain side by side has been illuminating too.
Where before I would feel Joy unsurpassed by anything I'd ever experienced,
now the Joy has an element of pain with it for the fading "past", the fading
"voice", the awareness of how much pain and suffering there is all around,
etc etc.

I occasionally get a dizzy spell where my eyes seem to go totally unfocused
(I call it glitching out) and when they refocus my head is cleared, too.

One thing I keep finding myself saying over and over is....."go with
it".....just let it happen.  And go about my "business" while it does what
it's going to do.  Aware but not overly focused on it.

Ever been at a social gathering where you're 'going about your business'
chatting about educational concerns when all of a sudden a band of angels
starts singin in your ear "Pacem Dea"????  With the most beautiful voices
I've ever heard.  One of these days I'm just gonna let er rip and start
singin out loud with them.  And hang the consequences.  I just pray when I
do, someone at the party will join in with me! LOL

[Mary, are you listening??????>]

Thanks for asking, Michelle....hope this is useful.  I'd love to hear your
experiences, too.

Pacem Dea, (a friend who knows Latin told me he thinks this is 'slang'! LOL
figures!),
-
Wendy



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: JC and Maimu

> Student, believe it or not, I once was a born-again.  I thank God everyday
> that I've had enough experience and life to move away from such a limited
> and inaccurate reality.  If you ever have doubts about your way, there are
> many, many people who have left and are much happier.  You are welcome to
> stay and listen, if you are strong enough.  But please do not preach to us
> again.  
> 
> Richard

I too am born-again.  The 11th of September 1977 to be exact.  I too did 
not appreciate the 'limited' view which was taught.  I too am much happer 
and my life more fulfilled than ever before.  There are many of us 
Student.  Care to stay and learn a little with us?  Share?  But please, 
don't condemn that which you yourself do not understand in a personal 
way.  I know your way, but you do not understand mine.  You follow what 
you are taught and this is not bad, however, some of us follow where our 
own heart and soul leads us.  This is not bad either.  Please keep your 
judgment and condemnation to yourself.  You are in no position to do 
either to another living soul.

Blessed Be
-
Debee



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: coincidence

> Debee L. Thomas wrote:
> > 
> > > it is very insightful and informative.
> > 
> > Yes, this is a very good book.  It causes much thought.
> > 
> > > My biggest shock with this book was to find that the dedication seemed to be
> > > written directly to me, which is of course normally not possible. :)
> > 
> > I guess my biggest shock was in discovering that it was fiction.  I guess
> > I had wanted to believe it was real :)  However, fiction or not, it still
> > discusses much of what we experience on our spiritual journeys to some
> > degree or another.
> > 
> > Blessed Be
> > 
> > Debee
> 
> 
> One of the first things that I learned was that there is no such thing as coincidence!

I too learned this long before having read the book.  I love watching it 
work in my life!  It's kind of like a child  with great anticipation at 
Christmas when opening gifts.  You don't know what you'll find but you 
know you'll love it!

Blessed Be

Debee


-
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject:  Re: major whoosh

Very moved by your postings this morning, Wendy.  I can't tell you how 
many times I've dug my heels in, not wanting to go into pain (joy's 
fine though!), but when I finally do, it opens up into something 
transcendent.  Guess it's a package deal.

Love,

Holly



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Anonymous Post (Awakening Awry?)

Hi: Richard


>Has anyone had any experience with herbs providing benefit or relief 
from physical discomfort brought on by the awakening or any other 
opinions or suggestions that may be of help? This condition has also 
been distressing to her emotionally since the help she has sought - 
when they were not able to provide a diagnosis - told her that she is 
being a hypochondriac or has some other mental problem. On the 
contrary, I have known her to be stoic, pragmatic, level-headed and has 
had almost no illness in her life - and when she has, would rarely take 
any medication more than an occasional aspirin.<

        If I will be serious with you probably you will still think that I am
joking, but I am not joking.    I tried every thing when my kundalini was
going out of control, but nothing worked except a can of beer.  For some
reason it did control the energy and it does really work to calm it down.
   At one point I could not even stay in then physical body and almost went
nuts.  The beer brought me back enough to function in life.

Believe it or not.

Love,
Von



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: what is the end result?
-
Hi: Barb ATNOSPAM--}}--}}-- (a cyber-rose)

Welcome.  

>I am new to the list & have been "lurking" for about 3 days.  I understand
everyone's point of view even when I disagree.  I have been impressed with
the "arguing" back & forth, then the agreement to disagree by both or all
parties.  Ending on the humor, giggles, & love has been a joy for me to
watch.<
-
As I told Dan If I agreed with every thing then I would not have any thing to
post.
I don't think we are arguing" back & forth.  It's just debating an opinion.
 I am not always right and everyone will  sure lets me know it, but it's
great to be able to put ones own opinion out.  How many people do you know
that you could discuss things like OBE, third eye, or kundalini with.  Not
very many.  

>Does anyone have any ideas as to what "happens" when K has done its job, and
we're integrated with our spirit self?  What do we get out of all this?  Why
are we going through it?  I have my own opinions about it, but I'd like to be
open to all possibilities.  Maybe others know more about it than me, or can
put a different twist on what I already suspect....<

I asked the same question many times.  From my own opinion I would say that
one of the reasons for this kundalini is of course change in consciousness
and also a change in the physical body to hold the new consciousness or
energy.  It seems that people that had this experience are more in tune with
the higher forces and then naturally are also more loving.   One on the by
products of my own experience was the out of body experience.  Through this
experience I learned that there was in fact no death.  With this knowledge
plus love it was a great awareness for some one to have in this physical
life.

Love,
Von



-
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: JC and Maimu

Hi: Debee

>I too am born-again.  The 11th of September 1977 to be exact.  I too did 
not appreciate the 'limited' view which was taught.  I too am much happer 
and my life more fulfilled than ever before.  There are many of us 
Student.  Care to stay and learn a little with us?  Share?  But please, 
don't condemn that which you yourself do not understand in a personal 
way.  I know your way, but you do not understand mine.  You follow what 
you are taught and this is not bad, however, some of us follow where our 
own heart and soul leads us.  This is not bad either.  Please keep your 
judgment and condemnation to yourself.  You are in no position to do 
either to another living soul.<

I really don't think any one would have gotten up set if these people
concerned would not come on so strong and infer that we will all go to hell.
- Also saying that they are the only ones that are right and every one else is
wrong   In other word don't preach to us. 

You have you own opinion, but don't force it one us.

Love,
Von



-
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: " Jesus coming soon! "

> I remember going out with the preachers daughter.  Why is there so many
> stories about the preachers daughters anyway?  She always had a beer can
> opiner in her purse and she always had money because for her money was easy
> to get.  I feel uncomfortable to go in to details here, sorry. Hope you get
> the meaning anyway. I think many people can relate to my story.
-
I dated the preachers son :)  I was raised Southern Baptist and my family 
wasn't 'real' religious.  This was obvious by the abuse I went through as 
a young girl which lasted into my teen years.  I later joined a 
non-denominational church, a very large one and became very active.  I 
gave large amounts of my time and talents to the church.  From 
babysitting in the nursery (so the parents could receive spiritual food), 
to teaching sunday school for the two year olds (a real delight!).  I 
worked with youth groups, missions conventions, womens ministries (making 
baked goods and crafts) to raise money for various things.  I was there 
almost every time the doors were open!  According to what I was being 
taught, my husband was the head of the household and I his help mate.  
This was ok until our daughter started the big K at their school.

At the end of the first year (I was a member of the church), I was 
informed I had not tithed enough money to get the member discount for my 
daughter to be in their school.  I informed them that I was a homemaker 
and did not have my own sorce of income AND that my husband had told me I 
could not give that much money to the church.  He by the way was not born 
again as was I, he was Buddhist.  
-
They agreed and said that I must then tithe half of the amount in order 
to receive the discounted rate for members.  Now, before I continue, let 
me make it clear that I understood the need for such a rule in that many 
would join the church only for the discount in order to send their 
children to school there while their church home was elsewhere.  At the 
end of the second year my tithe amount did not equal the half total.  My 
husband still was very upset by the amount I DID tithe and forbid me to 
tithe that much again.  I'm sad to say we had to withdraw my daughter 
from their school and place her in public school.  At this time, I was 
crushed, heartbroken and hurt.  I became very angry in the end because my 
time and energy didn't matter in the slightest to them, just the amount I 
gave or didn't give.  It was very clear where my loyalties lay, where my 
church home was, but in the end, according to their teaching, I had to 
wirthdraw my daughter from the school.  It meant a lot to me at that time 
to  have here there.  

It has taken me many years to get over the anger and hurt which I once 
endured.  I realize it wasn't God at fault, it was the men in charge 
using his name.  I can say this is behind me now and I've long since left 
the church. My husband at that time is no longer my husband.  We divorced 
a few years later.  He too at one point was beginning to get involved in 
the church and after that incident, he was very disillusioned about the 
topic of Christianity. I can't blame him at all for his feelings, I too 
shared them.  I can say that since I've left the influence and teachings, 
I've come to know Christ in a larger way and have healed so many things 
in my life.  I now see a much broader view of our world and the people in 
it.  I also have a broader understanding and deeper love.  I still serve 
in whatever way I can and will always do so.  

Blessed Be

Debee



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re the Devil

Hi folks:

Elaine Pagels has a very interesting book called "The Origin of Satan" which
traces the evolution of the devil in Jewish and Christian thought.

The general thrust of the book is that the Devil evolved along with our other
thought processes. The concept of the devil is an attempt to explain evil in
cosmic terms.  

There were different words for the devil, and one really struck me  Mastema.
- This was used by the Essenes and it means hatred.  

My own idea about the devil is that it is our own shadow side that we project
out onto anyone else but ourselves.  We don't want to face our dark sides.
 So in order to project it out, we have to make the other guy an object of
hate and fear.

It is interesting that in the crown chakra we begin to integrate all
dualistic thinking, and go beyond duality to oneness.  As far as evil is
concerned, we integrate our shadow side into ourselves, after transforming it
through the work we do on ourselves spiritually. Then we are beyond good or
evil and we are just alive with livingness. We are our true selves.

Devil =D'evil=of evil=the reverse of live.

Anything that is against life and livingness is the real shadow  and is the
true evil in the world, which is within us and we need to eradicate.

Turn your face to the sun and the shadows will fall behind you.
Edgar Cayce
-
Love Jule



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re Responsibility

Hi Everyone:
-
Arlene I liked what you had to say on the subject.  It is a very difficult
topic for me. 

There was a time that I took responsibiltiy for everyone.  As someone
mentioned, it is codependence and I am very grateful for the various 12 step
progams that helped me to see over the years what I was doing.

In fact, I rather suspect that part of the reason I was ill for so long, "k'
apart was simply because I burned myself out.  In those days I never looked
after me. The illness forced me to take stock.

Now I am very cautious what I take on as my responsibiltiy.  I try to share
with people about life, ideas philosophy etc. That I  am very clear about. 

I now realise I am not responsible for another's mood.  Before I would always
assume it was something I did or said.  It may have been on occasion,that I
was out of line, but even then the person is responsible for acting the way
they do.  In most cases I did not do anything offensive , and there was a
mood anyhow.  A lot of people want to control others, what they think, and
what they do, and what they say.  We've discussed it in terms of religion,
and Christianity in particular, but it happens in everyday life also. Many
will use a mood or a derogatory remark to shame you and bend you to their
will.

There are also a considerable number of people who believe they have a right
to your time.  They want it so you can do chores, errands, carpooling etc,
and  stuff for them so they have more time.  This type is very adept at
trying to make you explain your every action, and feel you must account for
every minute, if you dare say, you have 10 minutes "free", bingo theyv'e
appropriated it for their own use. As far as I am concerned I have no
responsibility for them either.

I do have responsiblities of all kinds.  These boil down to being a loving
member of my family and a good friend .  Sometimes it extends out into
society in various ways.  The criteria I use now to decide if  I will take on
the responsibility is to do the thing out of love.  If I can't do that and
feel a kind of dread, or anger, ar anything negative, I take a good look.
 Usually the thing is in one of the above categories that are not my
responsiblity.  If it isn't , then I look to see if I am simply trying to
duck out of what is mine. I try to be honest about this.  But even then I
find there are folks who have problems and won't solve them on their own,
because it takes a lot of work.  They are capable of doing the work, but are
too lazy.

Scott M. Peck in The Road Less Travelled defines love as being "The will to
extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's
spiritual growth."
I am learning slowly and painfully, that the way to nurture another's
spiritual growth is to sometimes not take reponsibility, and make them do it
themself!

Love Jule



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Von and Barb

Von:

Ram Dass once said that for an enlightened being the great sacrifice was to
come to earth in the first place.  Being here is a kind of cruxifiction
because this is such a place of suffering.  Until we can get past suffering
to joy, we crucify ourselves and each other.

The 2nd coming is indeed to me the time when all men achieve Christ
consciousness and then no longer is anyone, crucified by themselves or
others. 
-
It will not happen all at once as some fundamentalist think.  We all must
come to that stage for ourselves, and some will arrive ahead of the rest.
 But I do believe all will arrive eventually. If only because they get sick
of the pain, and have to find a better way!

Barb:

For me after "K", I was handed  access to the akashic records.  I don't know
about access being difficult or not, I was able to get my own lives, and a
more general cosmic type of stuff on the nature of the universe.  This latter
type of records, enabled me to delve more into the collective unconscious and
work on that and why we think the way we do---how our thinking evolved and so
on.

The difference before "K' and after "K" for me was that before I worked on my
own individual psyche, now it seems to be a collective thing..

Whether that makes me a more loving person than I was before, I cannot even
speculate.  I do understand myself a lot better, and I know who I am and why
I am here in a clearer way.  there is a lot of comfort in that, especially on
difficult days.

Love Jule



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Fwd: Anonymous Post (Awakening Awry?)
-
Dear Awakening Awry:

Re: the question, has anyone received help from herbs?

Yes.  I take echinacea -- and loved the way you received the information!

I just started with a homeopathic preparation for my back injury.  It's
wondrous. It's called SCIATICA/NEURALGIA RELIEF by NATRA-BIO and you can
get it at your local health food store probably.  Sounds like just what
your mom needs.  I have a herniated disc injury that has given me fits and
this has actually helped. 

Until I am able to heal myself with Spirit -- and I'm working on it -- 
these preparations work beautifully.  As one of my friends said recently, 
"Until you can walk on water, use a boat."

Best wishes,

Karol Ann
-


Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: " Jesus coming soon! "

Hi: Debee

Thanks for sharing that with me.  As you can see our life was very similar.
-

>I dated the preachers son :) <

That's funny.

 >I was raised Southern Baptist and my family 
wasn't 'real' religious.  This was obvious by the abuse I went through as 
a young girl which lasted into my teen years.

Yes me too until I was 16 years old.
 
>worked with youth groups, missions conventions,<
Same here.

>At the end of the first year (I was a member of the church), I was 
informed I had not tithed enough money <

Same here.

> He by the way was not born again as was I, he was Buddhist.<

I was a  Southern Baptist then a Buddhist and now I am closer to the Hindu
teachings and specifically Kriya Yoga.

>It has taken me many years to get over the anger and hurt which I once 
endured.  I realize it wasn't God at fault, it was the men in charge 
using his name.  I can say this is behind me now and I've long since left 
the church<

Yes

>I've come to know Christ in a larger way and have healed so many things 
in my life.  I now see a much broader view of our world and the people in 
it.  I also have a broader understanding and deeper love.  I still serve <

Yes, that's right.


Love,
Von



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Re the Devil

Hi: Jule

-
>My own idea about the devil is that it is our own shadow side that we
project
out onto anyone else but ourselves.  We don't want to face our dark sides.
 So in order to project it out, we have to make the other guy an object of
hate and fear.<


Yes those are my exact feeling also.

Love,
Von



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Von and Barb

Hi: Jule:
-
Yes,  I love the way Ram Dass looks at things and by the way I agree with
every single word you said.  As usual.

Thanks,
Von


>Ram Dass once said that for an enlightened being the great sacrifice was to
come to earth in the first place.  Being here is a kind of cruxifiction
because this is such a place of suffering.  Until we can get past suffering
to joy, we crucify ourselves and each other.

The 2nd coming is indeed to me the time when all men achieve Christ
consciousness and then no longer is anyone, crucified by themselves or
others. 

It will not happen all at once as some fundamentalist think.  We all must
come to that stage for ourselves, and some will arrive ahead of the rest.
 But I do believe all will arrive eventually. If only because they get sick
of the pain, and have to find a better way!

Barb:

For me after "K", I was handed  access to the akashic records.  I don't know
about access being difficult or not, I was able to get my own lives, and a
more general cosmic type of stuff on the nature of the universe.  This latter
type of records, enabled me to delve more into the collective unconscious and
work on that and why we think the way we do---how our thinking evolved and so
on.
-
The difference before "K' and after "K" for me was that before I worked on my
own individual psyche, now it seems to be a collective thing..

Whether that makes me a more loving person than I was before, I cannot even
speculate.  I do understand myself a lot better, and I know who I am and why
I am here in a clearer way.  there is a lot of comfort in that, especially on
difficult days.<


-
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: X-So. Baptists

Von and Debee:  Incredible how many X's there are on this list.  Me,too.
Both of your stories hit home with me.  Been there....

So very thankful that I've grown beyond this kind of control.

I hope all the others also escape from the confines of So Baptists and 
discover their own Truth.

THanks for sharing!  Karol Ann



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Re the Devil
-
Jule: 

had a good laugh over your post.  i started reading and thought i 
would post what i had discovered when i finished -- and then i saw it 
in your post! ha*8-)

about how we reverse the love that we live and it becomes evil.
we do evil and it becomes d'evil.  we project our shadow and it 
becomes bad-them; good-us.  in fact, we are all of it, though we are not 
yet conscious of all of it yet.  i've been working with my shadow and 
it's not a pretty picture, but it is necessary.

you read MY mind this time.....karol ann



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: " Jesus 
-
I just had an insight into the preacher's child syndrome that Debee and 
Von wrote about and I experienced as well.  The So Baptist dogma was so 
hypocritical, no one can live by it.  The THou Shall Nots were being done 
every day by supposedly good Christians.  Kids are very truthful, when 
left alone, and they probably were rebelling to the whole idea. 

Just a thought....


-
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: what is the end result?

The purpose of kundalini waking up the chakra system is to move into the
higher states of enlightenment. Or as the Christian's would call the full
illumination of spirit. Gloria


-
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: what is the end result?

Dear Von,

Thanks for your reply, but questions?  Debating opinions isn't the same thing
as arguing?  Isn't arguing trying to convince someone to your side or way of
thinking?  Isn't that what debating opinions is?  You've already guessed my
answer to those questions!

Barb (-;



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: what is the end result?

Hi Barb.

>Thanks for your reply, but questions?  Debating opinions isn't the same
thing
as arguing?  Isn't arguing trying to convince someone to your side or way of
thinking?  Isn't that what debating opinions is?  You've already guessed my
answer to those questions!

When I give you my opinion I am not arguing.  If I am arguing then you will
know it.
For an example.  Maybe I disagree with you and to me that is also debating,
but I am not arguing with you, am I?   Or maybe I am, if you disagree with
me?:)

Love,
Von



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 
From: Mark Rivera 
Subject: Re: " Jesus coming soon! "

Jesus is already here. In our hearts.