kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 114 

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: Divisive Christians

Dear Alvin, 

I have absolutely no problem with the name Jesus Christ (or even JESUS
CHRIST).  In fact, I have very strong, positive ideas about him, as do many
Jews.  We just do not believe that he was God incarnate.  

Just for the record.
Richard


Beauty is one of the rare things that do not lead to doubt
of God.
-Jean Anouilh




Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: Re: Location

At 04:20 PM 8/23/96 -0500, William P. Wilkes wrote:
>Mary Knapp wrote: 
>> When we get into all our weird synchronicities I keep wanting to plot them
>> on a map and see what comes up.  The letter K maybe?  A snake?
>> But more seriously folks: Where are we all around the globe?  It would be
>> interesting to know and to see.  Are we in pockets?  Spread out?  Evenly?
>> Does the list have 7 chakras?  Maybe more.
>> interested.  I hope you are.
>> Mary
>> 
>	Yes, Mary, I'd very much like to receive a map like that.  Thank you
>very much for your offer.


Lots of people want to see the map, but we only have three locations sent so
far. Not much of a map.  Perhaps as an inducement we should say, you don't
get to see it unless you contribute to it???




-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: "Alvin T. Perhacs" 
Subject: Re: Divisive Christians

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Richard Satin wrote:

> Dear Alvin,
> 
> 
> I wonder which part of Christendom you identify with.  Are you a Protestant?
>  Then you believe, if you follow the true teachings of the Reformers, that
> all Roman Catholics are following the antichrist on earth, and are headed
> for perdition.
> 
> Or, are you in the Orthodox camp?  Then you are aligned with those who for
> more than a thousand years killed and tortured MY ancestors, for the very
> fact that to the Orthodox Christians, Jews are the embodiment of Satan.  And
> , it is a blessing on your head to rape, kill, or pillage in Christ's name.
> 
> Maybe you are a Roman Catholic?  Then you are part of a tradition which for
> all of its beauty and truth, still has not really come out (to my knowledge,
> anyway) with a real, straight forward apology for the Inquisition.  That
> inquisition, by the way, besides killing by torture the best and brightest
> of Catholicism, resulted in the total destruction of the largest Jewish
> population in Europe - that being the Jews of Spain and Portugal.  Neither
> country has had glory since that terrible time in 1492.

I'm a Christian, just a Christian. Those that you mentioned were not 
following Jesus's teachings, but following their own desire to "judge" on 
their perceived criteria for Christians. This is wrong and I would never 
agree with their methods or actions. These people manipulated the 
gospel's meaning to fill their own agenda, much like many Christians do 
today unfortunately. Your point was well taken, but the fact is that just 
because these misguided people perverted Christianity does not mean that 
Christianity is to blame. Christianity is following Christ, not a 
preacher,pope,church or group.

> 
> And you are sorely wrong if you hide behind the statement that, "Well, the
> church has done these things because they were not truly following the New
> Testament."  In fact, if you really study the New Testament, and the Church
> Fathers like Chrysostom and Aquinas, you will find ample bases for every
> indignity the church has ever done.

Please show me where Jesus said that you should torture and kill people. 
He said the exact opposite. He said make your enemy your friend, and 
treat people how you would want to be treated. He spoke of love, not hate 
and desent

-
> There is ample proof of all of these allegations, from non-Jewish sources. 
> Perhaps the best book is is by Nichols entitled Christian Anti-Semitism.  I
> doubt that you would honestly study it, seeing as you possess the truth. 
> You betray yourself with such statements as,
> 
> "I believe a lot of you are in for a suprise when you have breathed your
> last breath,and realize you had your ladder up against the wrong house!"
> 
> and, 
> 
> "With that light you will also attract Yin and Yang Angels as well as Demons
> that will pervert your understanding of what the truth is."

Not only your light, but everyones light attracts these types of 
entities. Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they are not there!


> 
> So, are you saying that we who have experienced the dark night of the soul
> and/or pains and trauma because of a more difficult kundalini or mystic
> awakening are under the control of Demons?  Or maybe just the influence of
> them.  Which one is it?  Oh, I guess I wouldn't understand, having my
> understanding of what the truth is so perverted.

Being controlled is posession, which many people are, but what I mean is 
that they definately influence ones behavior at times, and can be quite 
destructive. They are subtle, so don't expect them to write 666 on your 
back or something. The saying goes: if your off an inch, your off a mile!

-
> If I sound a little bitter, it's just because of the strength of my passion
> at the severe injustice of Christianity.  I really am not bitter about it,
> but am speaking strongly to get my point across.  I don't have anything
> against sincere Christians who do not believe that theirs is the only way. 
> But I have no patience for the evil, divisive work of people who try to
> divide brothers, as you and "student" have done.

The injustice is with the people not Christianity. I just shared my 
views, and if you don't care to believe them that is ok, I'll sleep fine 
tonight, because my consious is clean. I have many Jewish friends and of 
other faiths, but that doesn't mean that I shirk from my stance on what I 
believe to be the truth. The problem with most people is that they don't 
stand up for their own beliefs. Well I'm not one of them.

> 
> One thing I will say for you, is that you are sincere and worthy of respect.
>  For you signed your name openly to what you believe.  So I do respect you
> as person, though to me your ideas are reprehensible - though you (I'm sure)
> do not mean them to be.  But "student" deserves no such respect.
-
I am bold and confident in what I believe and have no reason not to sign 
my name.

> If you would truly read and study the Nichols book, I would even buy it for
> you.  It is a serious work, by an Anglican Priest.

I'll be glad to read yours, if you'll read one that I suggest. Evidence 
that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell.

> 
> By the way, I too trained in the Seminary to be a minister in the Anglican
> communion.  So I know of what I speak.

I never trained in the seminary, but I train in the martial arts every day!
Thanks for the response and have a great weekend!



Respectfully
- 
Al Perhacs



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: John Carlson 
Subject: has anyone else felt this

I've had feelings in and around my head for 7-8 years.  It first came
as a numb spot on the top of my head.  Soon the numb spots were moving
around my head.  {A lot of other stuff missing}.   Right now, I experience
spots of feeling which increase in size into part of my head.

Just wondering,

John Carlson



-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: has anyone else felt this

At 03:03 PM 8/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I've had feelings in and around my head for 7-8 years.  It first came
>as a numb spot on the top of my head.  Soon the numb spots were moving
>around my head.  .   Right now, I experience
>spots of feeling which increase in size into part of my head.
>
>John Carlson
>

John, ever felt like someone tapping or patting you on the head? :)
just curious.

Dan.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...
-




Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Problems of a medium

Odette. Welcome to the list. I hope you enjoy it and i know you have alot to 
contribute.  I am not psychic but always wished I was. Royale



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Mary Knapp 
Subject: k and holy spirit

No doubt the history of Christianity is pretty dismal from a human rights
stand point and no doubt it got twisted from its original teachings.
However, having personally come to K via a relationship with Christ I can't
discount his guidance, etc.  Genvieve Paulson has a chapter in her book:
Kundalini and The Chakras on: K and the Holy Spirit.  I believe she is an
Episcopalian minister.  I think any good religion will get you here if you
go off on your own with its teachings and founding teachers.  Except maybe
Lutheranism; it has to be the Major source of 19th and 20th centry
anti-Semitism on the planet.  IMHO and for your consideration only.

Mary

-

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: eyes, flashes of light

Jeff. Yes, I have noticed that about the colors and I agree ,
 they are the chakras. Royale


-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy 
Subject: Re: Divisive Christians

To One and All,

I sincerely hope the next mailings pouring in from the list will continue to
be filled with positivity, Love and Light, and good energy to and from
all....as so many have been.  Nothing wears us down more than divisiveness
and we are working in our lives towards all inclusiveness among other nesses.  

I am going to suggest that if there are negative energies expended here and
people feel inclined to debate christianity or religion there are plenty of
forums on which to do so.  Those of us not interested might just ignore
them.  This seems to be the recurring struggle on the net as it is in life
to be constantly facing the fracturedness of humanity.
I feel it is a test and a lesson...and I'm struggling myself a bit in
determining how I personally will deal with it.  I think I'm seeing this for
the first time more clearly than I might have even a short time ago.  The
feeling that comes up with this stuff is 'oh no, here i go again!'  Anger,
sadness, frustration, negativity, energy drain.  We can indeed choose not to
be affected in this way.  I don't wanna suggest we all hold hands now and
Love one another .... but I pray that will be the outcome of our purpose
here together.

I admit to having come here to this list in search of Sanctuary with like
minded Souls.  Like minded doesn't mean same thinking to me....at all.  But
there is a thread which brings us all here and that is Kundalini.  And the
choice we make to consciously pursue the positive in our lives and minds has
been pretty well put out here over and over again by some of the Loveliest
Souls I've yet to encounter.

Knowing this group, we will find a way to not only keep the White Light
flowing within and without but also, to continue to extend a hand to all who
wish to join us in discussing our personal ideas and experiences that relate
and pertain to Kundalini.

Love,
Wendy
-


Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: The Phoenix

Dan. The age of Aquarius. Royale


-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: JC and Maimu

Satan and damnation? Been there, done that thanks to the priests of my youth. 
What a nice way to totally control people physically and emotionally. My 
Kundalini awakening has totally freed me of that and, ironically, I'm more 
able to understand and accept the message of Jesus, the message of love. 

I can only pray that <> will see the light soon and not be blinded 
by his own fear of the Devil.

There are evil forces, but I'm almost certain they're not hiding in the 
kundalini force.

Love to all.


>I don't know, Maimu.  
>
>But I do know that I really appreciate your presence here and what you have
>to say.  That's not really what you are talking about.
>
>Don't even pay too close attention (if you are)  to the stuff coming from
>this kind of person.  Fundamentalism of any stripe is primarily about
>insecurity and fear.  This note from Student reveals this to be his/her
>motivation - with the accusation that we are under the influence and
> control
>of their Satan.  They want to instill in everyone else the fear and
>insecurity which defines the underlying way that they live.  What they
> don't
>understand they seek to stamp out and make in conformity to their own
>ignorance.
>
>This is not a condemnation on Christianity per se; nor on Christians.  But
>it is an indictment of the types of people - Christian or not - who have
>disdain for others because they differ.
>
>Student, believe it or not, I once was a born-again.  I thank God everyday
>that I've had enough experience and life to move away from such a limited
>and inaccurate reality.  If you ever have doubts about your way, there are
>many, many people who have left and are much happier.  You are welcome to
>stay and listen, if you are strong enough.  But please do not preach to us
>again.  
>
>Richard
>
>
>Death is patiently making my mask as I sleep.  Each morning I 
>awake to discover in the corners of my eyes the small tears
>of his wax.
>-Philip Dow
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: Re: Mudras (YJ excerpts, Part 4/end)

Gee Pat. I wish your send me the text. Royale



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Odette Dumas 
Subject: Jesus Christ Good or Evil ?

Hello everyone,
I've been just looking at the list for a week, without replying ( or so 
). But this time, I have a good one for you guys and gals.
As a reply to Alvin T. Perhacs who wrote:
Some of you also interpret your light as THE LIGHT, and unfortunately you
are being mislead in some respects to that light. The forces of darkness
can manufacture any picture that you want to see, and make you believe
that it is the truth or the way.

And if Jesus was bad news afterall? Just consider all the crimes that've 
been committed in HIS name... the man forenew though all these horrors 
but he let it stand. 
To the light stomach ones, don't get upset too easily. It's in my soul to 
look at all the aspects of an idea. IN fact, that's my soulmate who 
suggested the idea and I endorsed it.
>From a couple of good devils,
Odette and Eden



-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: John Carlson 
Subject: Re: has anyone else felt this 

> John, ever felt like someone tapping or patting you on the head? :)
> just curious.

No, but I've felt what seems to be an invisible hat sitting on my head.
Perhaps a helmet of some type?
-
John Carlson



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: John Carlson 
Subject: Re: Jesus Christ Good or Evil ? 

> And if Jesus was bad news afterall? Just consider all the crimes that've 
> been committed in HIS name... the man forenew though all these horrors 
> but he let it stand. 


I've always imagined Jesus on the side of the oppressed, whoever they
might be.

"Old Testament" God on the other hand, is with those who worship him.

John
-


Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: obe

Karol,
At some time you will be doing that cosmic movement with your consciousness
in tack. Work on remembering your dreams and increasing the frequency of your
body then you won't get jolted so hard or have to be brought in with so much
discomfort. Remember we must learn to go out and come in with grace and
dignity. Love ya, Gloria



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: ori^ 
Subject: Judgement [Was: Divisive Christians]

What is judgement?

>From Webster's Third New International Dictionary:
Judge
1. To form an authoritative opinion about
    (This is the first of many uses of the word.  Generally the first
     definition is the most common use of the word)

At 18:00 8/23/96, Alvin T. Perhacs wrote in response to Richard:
>Those that you mentioned were not following Jesus's teachings, but 
>following their own desire to "judge" on their perceived criteria 
>for Christians. This is wrong and I would never 
>agree with their methods or actions. 

Al, you say this is wrong.  By whose judgement is this wrong?
Is this not a judgement on your part?
If it is not, then how can they be wrong?
If it is, then how is your judgement or ability to do so any
    better than the ones you judge?

Al writing again in response to Richard:
>These people manipulated the gospel's meaning to fill their own agenda, 
>much like many Christians do today unfortunately. 

Who is judging here?
Who is the judge of what meaning to give to something?

Al writing again (in response to Richard):
>Your point was well taken, but the fact is that just 
>because these misguided people perverted Christianity does not mean that 
>Christianity is to blame. Christianity is following Christ, not a 
>preacher,pope,church or group.

Is not "misguided" a rather judgemental word?
You have offered one definition of Christianity.  Who judges which is
the "correct" definition if there is more than one?
Why cannot multiple definitions *co-exist*???


Just a little something to think about,
ori^
************************
*        ori^          *   
*  mermaidATNOSPAMeskimo.com  *
************************



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: mxoATNOSPAMpyrite.som.cwru.edu (Maimu Alber)
Subject: Re: has anyone else felt this 

>I've had feelings in and around my head for 7-8 years.  It first came
>as a numb spot on the top of my head.  Soon the numb spots were moving
>around my head.  .   Right now, I experience
>spots of feeling which increase in size into part of my head.
>
>> ever felt like someone tapping or patting you on the head? :)
>> just curious.
>
>No, but I've felt what seems to be an invisible hat sitting on my head.
>Perhaps a helmet of some type?
>

AAAAHHHHH.....

I just spilt Coke on myself.....I'm dying........ you guys are just
too much....

I'm very sympathetic and trying to understand....and I don't mean to be
unspiritual or insensitive.....but, man...

I *can't wait* for the final diagnosis.....

Thank you....you've elevated my mood immensely....except for the Coke on my
keyboard, that is....

Please....

Carry on.....
-
(((((John & Dan)))))))

Maimu


----------------------------------------------------------------------
    When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather......
     Not screaming and crying like the passengers in his car did.

-

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: "Rondi McBoyer" 
Subject: Mapping

Mary,
I am in New Hampshire, the seacoast area to be more exact.
How 'bout if you just forward all the messages to me and I'll keep a map
going.... All those who do not reply don't get one.
Don't  worry about my silly question, it is the energy going through here
today, making me weirder than usual...disregard please.
Rondi