kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 113 

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: "Rondi McBoyer" 
Subject: Am I getting through?

For the last week or so none of my posts to this list are showing up, and
while they may not have great importance, they were not that long either, 
Richard  ..Please email me if you are getting
this.....nicnorATNOSPAMnh.ultranet.com   Thanks    Rondi



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: Divisive Christians

Oh, and one other thing.
-
I have absolutely no problem with the name Jesus Christ (or even JESUS
CHRIST).  In fact, I have very strong, positive ideas about him, as do many
Jews.  We just do not believe that he was God incarnate.  

Just for the record.
Richard

One never reaches home, but wherever friendly paths intersect, 
the whole world looks like home for a time.
-Hermann Hesse



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Arlene Benjamin 
Subject: Responsibilty

Hi All:

Let's generate some super positive energy today to send to those who need it.
Including ourselves.
I agree with Von. Each of us is responsible for ourselves. This includes those
who remain in the darkness at this time. Yet, each and everyone of us has been
there. We are all at different levels of growth and/or awareness. I think it
is important to focus on our own Light and growth, which ultimately affects
those around us. This is where we need to say...Hey, I'm being attacked or
the focus of someone's dark thoughts...so what can we do? I feel it is in times
such as this that provide us with opportunities for further growth. It is up to
us. We are the only thinkers in our minds and if we allow someone to disturb 
our peace of mind, our serenity...well, then they have done what they wanted to.

It is at times such as these that we can gain in strength of mind. There is
a reason and purpose for everything that occurs. What we do about it or don't do
about it is our responsibility.

This, of course, is my opinion. I can see with myself just in the past few
months how much I have changed...my perspective, attitude, beliefs...It is a
continuous process and one we can do with an open heart and mind.

I was at the church-going level at one time several years ago. Needless to say,
I have moved on. Yet, at the time it is exactly what I needed. I feel I
benefitted from that experience in many ways. It helped me to do some house-
cleaning of my cobwebbed mind and it also challenged me where I was at.

So we can either FEAR these people that want to send voodoo or preach their 
gospel...That is exactly what it is about. Just like bombing planes and the
Olypmics...these people want us to be immobilized by FEAR!!! Or we can choose
to remain peaceful and send them Light.

And as Von said Energy is Energy...it all has a purpose. It is up to us what we
choose, individually or collectively, do with it.

Thanks for listening to my sermon! LOL!!!

Love and Light,
Namaste'...Arlene
Peace begins at home*


-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: mxoATNOSPAMpyrite.som.cwru.edu (Maimu Alber)
Subject: Re: JESUS CHRIST

At 03:15 PM 8/23/96 -0400, Alvin T. Perhacs wrote:

Hi Al,

>I think the way the student posted was a bit off base, but the fact of 
>the matter is that he is right, and that I believe a lot of you are in 
>for a suprise when you have breathed your last breath,and realize you had 
>your ladder up against the wrong house!

There is just as much chance of your ladder being in the wrong place as
well.  I really don't believe that any one person has the *ultimate* answer.
Unfortunatlely, sometimes our beliefs are so strong that we forget others
believe just as strongly about theirs.  I don't know what the answer is for
anyone else, but for me it is not something wrapped in dogma, money, or
material things....it is not something that tells me *what* to think, but
teaches me how to think and then lets me learn for myself in a positive
way....but I still don't have answers...I'm seeking.....

>I shouldn't even post this, 

Sure you should.....

realizing that most of you know what your 
>doing and what side you are on, 

Welll....what do you expect on a kundalini list?  It may have been different
had this been a christian list...but it's not...so he most likely got the
response that a lightworker getting on their soapbox about balanced chakras
would have gotten on a fundamentalist christian list.....

 no surprise to me on the 
>negative feedback that the student got.

I don't think there is a right or a wrong here, or "sides" for that matter.
The way you posted *your* position is much more approachable and
friendly....and thoughtful posts such as yours bring out the open-minded
qualities of others...not shut them down the way the students' attack did.
S/he came on ostracizing, condemning, proselityzing and spewing fire and
brimstone, not unlike Jonathan Edwards' "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry
God." (A wonderful piece of writing, I might add.)  That sort of attack had
no place on this list.  And the fact that he wasn't even subbed proved that
it was no more than a troll...he wanted no discourse.  In effect, it was no
different than a group flame.
>
. The forces of darkness 
>can manufacture any picture that you want to see, and make you believe 
>that it is the truth or the way. 

I find myself constantly aware of this.

>Sorry to rain on anyones parade, and I'm sure that I'll catch some of 
>your heat, 

It would take more than one person's opinion to rain on *my* parade.  And I
hope you don't think of my comments as heat...but just *my* opinion as well...
-
but hey, thats the way these lists go. I just felt that I had 
>to speak up an tell the truth as I know it and if anyone doubts it, do 
>the research and you will discover the truth as it is. 

Ahh...this is such a difficult thing.....tsk, tsk.....And what if after
research  the truth as I discover it is different than the truth as you know
it?  Shall we then toss a coin .....?

One more thing, if 
>Jesus Christ is not the son of God, why does the mere mention of his name 
>get so many people agitated? 

I think it's because of the history of forced religion, parental teaching,
catholic schools, etc..... that many of us have as children.  When you get
hit over the head with something long enough, at some point you will start
flinching just at the mere mention of it.  No one I know was ever forced to
practice chi kung as a child.  But to pray?  All too many.....

>I enjoy this list and have heard some very good insights and information 
>to corroborate my own, and don't always agree with what is being said, So 
>I don't expect everyone to like my post either. 

What's there to not like?

>From an energy standpoint 
>I think a lot of you have manifested the energy either by chance or luck, 
>but really don't know how to handle it or control it. That is why so many 
>of you have migraines and such, because you forced the energy through 
>your head, and didn't build up the nerve fibres in your arms and legs to 
>act as a pressure release for the energy. Some have died from this 
>because their body is not used to the increased pressure that is put on 
>it from the Kundalini energy. Just thought I would add that point, 
>because it is very apparent to me by a lot of the posts that I have read. 

This paragraph caught my attention more than the rest.  I am very much in
touch with the fact that it is alll new to me, that I am new to it, that I
am unknowledgeable and inexperienced.  I am doing the best I can without
guidance or direction of a teacher....and would appreciate anything would be
willing to share with me to help me learn to control my energies.  I have
lots of energy, but no discipline though I"m trying hard to get some.  I
would be happy to dialogue with you on this, if you would be willing to
share some of your own experience with me.  If you don't want to post to the
list, private mail is fine...although I think others could possibly gain
from it as well....

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Al....

Maimu

-
 
      *** Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake. --Thoreau ***

                             



Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Re: Divisive Christians

Dear Alvin,

Boy, you certainly are sure of yourself, aren't you?

I wonder which part of Christendom you identify with.  Are you a Protestant?
 Then you believe, if you follow the true teachings of the Reformers, that
all Roman Catholics are following the antichrist on earth, and are headed
for perdition.
-
Or, are you in the Orthodox camp?  Then you are aligned with those who for
more than a thousand years killed and tortured MY ancestors, for the very
fact that to the Orthodox Christians, Jews are the embodiment of Satan.  And
, it is a blessing on your head to rape, kill, or pillage in Christ's name.

Maybe you are a Roman Catholic?  Then you are part of a tradition which for
all of its beauty and truth, still has not really come out (to my knowledge,
anyway) with a real, straight forward apology for the Inquisition.  That
inquisition, by the way, besides killing by torture the best and brightest
of Catholicism, resulted in the total destruction of the largest Jewish
population in Europe - that being the Jews of Spain and Portugal.  Neither
country has had glory since that terrible time in 1492.

And you are sorely wrong if you hide behind the statement that, "Well, the
church has done these things because they were not truly following the New
Testament."  In fact, if you really study the New Testament, and the Church
Fathers like Chrysostom and Aquinas, you will find ample bases for every
indignity the church has ever done.

There is ample proof of all of these allegations, from non-Jewish sources. 
Perhaps the best book is is by Nichols entitled Christian Anti-Semitism.  I
doubt that you would honestly study it, seeing as you possess the truth. 
You betray yourself with such statements as,

"I believe a lot of you are in for a suprise when you have breathed your
last breath,and realize you had your ladder up against the wrong house!"

and, 

"With that light you will also attract Yin and Yang Angels as well as Demons
that will pervert your understanding of what the truth is."

So, are you saying that we who have experienced the dark night of the soul
and/or pains and trauma because of a more difficult kundalini or mystic
awakening are under the control of Demons?  Or maybe just the influence of
them.  Which one is it?  Oh, I guess I wouldn't understand, having my
understanding of what the truth is so perverted.

If I sound a little bitter, it's just because of the strength of my passion
at the severe injustice of Christianity.  I really am not bitter about it,
but am speaking strongly to get my point across.  I don't have anything
against sincere Christians who do not believe that theirs is the only way. 
But I have no patience for the evil, divisive work of people who try to
divide brothers, as you and "student" have done.

One thing I will say for you, is that you are sincere and worthy of respect.
 For you signed your name openly to what you believe.  So I do respect you
as person, though to me your ideas are reprehensible - though you (I'm sure)
do not mean them to be.  But "student" deserves no such respect.
-
If you would truly read and study the Nichols book, I would even buy it for
you.  It is a serious work, by an Anglican Priest.

By the way, I too trained in the Seminary to be a minister in the Anglican
communion.  So I know of what I speak.

Most sincerely,
Richard Satin

-



One never reaches home, but wherever friendly paths intersect, 
the whole world looks like home for a time.
-Hermann Hesse



-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: From Jule

For all those who asked I have now posted the list on CFS and what I did to
help.  If you don't get yours let me know.  I've never sent so many
additional copies before, so may have done it wrong.  I'm such a computer
dummy, anything could have happened.

To Al:

If you read the gospels, you will see that people accused Jesus too of being
from the devil. They did that because they did not understand what he was
trying to say to them. Maybe those that accuse us are making the same
mistake?

Love Jule


-
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Dark side invasion

>To: Karol Ann Barnett 
>From: Dan Gahlinger 
>
>At 12:36 PM 8/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>Wow, things are really hot on this list today!  Love it!
>>
>>
>>Utopia doesn't have to be this.  It can be a state of mind.  
>>Humans who accept their own power and use it with Divine Will soon 
>>experience this kind of elevated state, i'm coming to understand.  
>
>uptopia meaning perfection. of course, you are taking the whole thing out
of context when you apply it to an individual like that. its a completely
different discussion.
>
>>Power as the ability to act; not the act itself.  That we have the 
>>choice, the power to choose, is an immensity that i'm just now trying to 
>>understand.  It's really huge, isn't it?  But the utopia that i mention 
>>is not immediately available to most of us because of our blockages and 
>>limitations, which we are working to remove.  But we still have the 
>>ability to have a utopic state of mind, and i'm working on being a 
>>resident of THAT state *8-).
>
>well it is obvious (or I thought it was) that it was the power in the
ability to act, and not the act itself. I thought that was a given [grin]
>
>the utopia you mention is completely different from what was in the message
you quoted, which was refering to "society", and not the "individual".
>
>in actuality, you are not disagreeing with me, because the "utopia" you
mention is individualistic, the state of mind, and has nothing whatsoever to
do with the "utopia" i mentioned, which was "societal".
>
>on the other hand, reading your message it was hard to define if you really
meant utopia or euphoria. [grin]
>
>as a state of mind, either (or both) are nice places to visit, not sure I'd
want to live there. change is necessary, it promotes growth else, once
again, stagnation sets in. even in emotion, feeling love 100% of the time
may be good, but too much of anything isn't always a good thing, even love.
>
Dan.
there are always possibilities...

-

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 

Subject: Re: JC, "student" and Al

As I am new to this list perhaps I am not yet qualified to comment but this
in response to the posts by "student" and Al Perhacs.

First off, I have not had (to my knowledge) a kundalini experience.  But
from the discussions I've read it does seem that there can be a lot of pain
associated with awakening.  I would assume (although I may very well be
wrong) that the pain is because the energies released "short circuited" the
person and his or her ability to handle the power they now possess.  

I am a very analytical person and am looking to experience kundalini to
learn from it and to study it.  I am looking to expand my mind, my
consciousness, and my spirit.  I am a Catholic and pray to God every day,
but my beliefs tend to be more of a "universal" religion.

As Al said, energy can be used for good or ill.  It is up to the person to
decide which path they will take.  I do not believe, however, that demons or
devils will influence a good person to become evil, but more likely that
some good people may be mislead by others which may stunt their spiritual
growth (like some of the posts on gurus mentioned previously).

I intend to study all the materials I can before trying anything that I may
not be ready for.  As mentioned elsewhere, I do not believe in coincidence.
Everything happens for a reason, and if left to their own devices, things
will flow the way they should.  By joining this list, I realize that my time
has come to start researching kundalini to prepare for an eventual
awakening.  I have trust in God that this will happen, and happen at the
right time.

One thing I have learned in my studies is not to force my beliefs on others.
I can only offer to help or even just sit back and wait to be asked.  This
was my major problem with the "student" post.  No one alive today is
knowledgable enough to state unequivocally that their way is the one and
only true way to achieve things.

I apologize for the length of this post, and I'll quietly go back to lurking
now. 


In love and light,




P.S.  It seems the troller netted a whole school of fish.
-


Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 
From: "William P. Wilkes" 
Subject: Re: JESUS CHRIST

Alvin T. Perhacs wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Karol Ann Barnett wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Dear Al:
> >
> > I know how you feel, but you have been misinformed.  Eventually, if
> > you are searching for truth, you will discover that during the Justinian
> > period, I believe it was, the forces in power corrupted the biblical
> > texts and changed the wording to something that it was never intended to
> > do -- it was used a weapon to control people through fear and through
> > guilt.
> >
> 
> Karol Ann,
> 
> I appreciate your response, but could you please tell me how the texts
> were changed? Of course there have been people that manipulate for the
> sake of their personal gain, but that happens in all religions. The
> gospel is more accurate than any other document from that time. Give me
> an example of Christ's words changed and I will do the research.
> 
> Respectfully
> 
> Al Perhacs
	Al, I've been trying to get into this discussion.  I'm new to this form
of communicating!
	Love is recognizable as it comes from any source whatever.  One who has
it can tell it's presence.  I love the Lord Jesus and I am practicing
the skill of loving, with His help, according to the two great
commandments that took the place of the original 10 or so.
-	Love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, patience, self-control -- the
fruit of the Spirit.  How can anyone not value these above any labels
such as Christian, Buddhist, follower of the Way, yoga practitioner,
etc.??  If there is real fruit coming from one's practice, it will be
quickly recognized by others who bear that same fruit in their own
practice.  Jesus said, "I have other flocks."
	(I'd like to swap observations of "the anointing" of the Holy Ghost and
it's effects with you or anyone who's interested.)
	Love and peace.