Date: Mon, 12 Aug kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 87 

From: tejkohliATNOSPAMgiasdl01.vsnl.net.in
Subject: Neat way to crucify kundalini

Hi Von,

	Thanks for your message. Yes we do disagree. And lets have some 
fun disagreeing, OK?

	By the way, can you have the fun disagreeing with any guru or 
master of YOUR choice? If you don't believe me, why don't you select a 
guru or master of your choice and go right upto him/her, in front of the 
disciples, and say "You are talking just bullshit". Then why don't you 
note down the reaction of the people around you, including the guru et 
al, and his/her disciples. I hope you get my drift. It is that subtle 
pressure to conform that is damaging to any mind, forget the K process.

	As far as K is concerned, it is also damaging. Sooner or later in 
the K process you must meet with your Inner-Self, whether in dreams, 
visions or any other way. That process will get delayed if you have the 
image of an external body imposed on your mental process. I may not be 
expressing myself in the best way possible but I hope that you understand 
what I am saying. I have experienced this in both ways.

	And now I would like to say a little on the ideal way to help 
others as you mentioned. To be done correctly, without damaging the 
receiver, it has to be done anonymously. I was helped a lot, and still am 
being helped a lot. I know that for a fact. But I still do not know even 
today, who is the being that has helped me. It can be done that lightly, 
and is done that lightly by the real advanced beings. That is the right 
way. More inferior beings( normally I dont like to use that word, but I 
am using it here) will help in a way where credit goes to them.

Peace and Love,
Tej

	You said:


Hi: Tej

You Said:
>Thanks for your message. What you expressed is - right on! Actually I
do not feel sorry for expressing it so much as I actually feel sorry, or 
rather sympathise, with those who feel the need to look for some master or 
guru. And especially so if the kundalini switch is ON.   

        Which guru or master etc. can be better for one than the K itself, 
the core of the cosmos. Which guru or master can have more to power to 
help and guide? Who actually controls the destiny? I feel it is pure,
un-adulterated foolishness to bow down to, or touch the feet of, etc. etc.
of another when the pure resplendent energy is inside us. If we feel like
doing those things, we should do to the one inside us!

        Getting into the trap of gurus or masters can also impede our
progress in the K path. Every guru or master has his or her own opinions
about life and its values, depending upon their upbringing and their 
societal values. These may not be in consonance with how the K energy
wants to express in oneself, so by imbibing these values or thoughts
one can further impede K's progress, which has a 'tough' time as it is in
making us free from the conditioning.

----------------------------------------------
Sorry, but I must disagree with you.  I never did even hear about a Guru that
said he or she was a Guru.  It is the followers that set these people up as a
Gurus and many of them would not mind at all to just live in a cave.  There
is not a single Guru that will ask you to bow down and kiss their feet, Etc.
 If you have received something special from the Guru and would like to honer
him then that is up to you. A Gurus only reasion for being is just to connect
you up with God or the higher force and then they will get out of the way. 

I almost went completely crazy with my own experience and would love to have
had a Guru or anyone to help me at that time.  I don't know about your own
experience as you never did tell me, but for myself it was a nightmare.  From
leaving the body at night in the astrol and mental to fighting with entities,
Etc  I had no foundation at all.  It was such a shock to my system that I
almost went nuts.

I value with your opinion, but I must disagree with you for sure.

Love,
Von


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: tejkohliATNOSPAMgiasdl01.vsnl.net.in
Subject: the guru thing

Hi Jim!

	You said :

>Hi All,

Why in the world would anyone want a Guru ?

Let's say you just climbed into the cockpit of a 747
and you want to take off with 300 people onboard.
You're headed from New York to Paris.

You don't know a Dam thing about flying a 747 but you think that you can
figure it out on your own.

An experienced pilot comes on board and tells you that he/she will help you
to get this plane off the ground and safely landed in Paris.

You say, " Get out of here. This is my own trip "

The tower clears you for takeoff .
The tower has no way of knowing if you're qualified to fly a 747

So, you take off.

By the way, the tower is Kundalini.

Anyways - You take off and the next day every major newspaper in the country
has a picture of your 747 that crashed and burned on takeoff.

You can use Kundalini as your Guru and she will guide you to the right path
but you will be takeing a lot of side streets.

A dear friend of mine who had a Kundalini awakening two years ago didn't
have a clue as to what was happening to her.
She was born into a wealthy family and one day she hauled all of their
expensive furniture out on the street and put up a sign saying ( Free
Furniture )
You probably guessed it.
Her husband came home and had her commited.

In a way though, Kundalini guided her in the right direction.
Our local school board gave her an early retierment with 100% benefits.

Please exscuse my spelling. 

She's now at her cabin at Mount Shasta lounging by the lake and sending me
e-mail asking me if I'm still going to work every day.

Myself, I would never attempt to fly a 747 without proper instructions.
Neither would I blast off into the " Cosmic Wind " without proper guidence.

But, In a way, the side streets are kind of interesting.

Bye for now,

Jim
--

Listen, I've always had problems with analogies. You never know whether 
they apply or not. They probably cause more confusion, and more time and 
effort is spent in unravelling that contention, then in unravelling the 
original statement.

In your analogy, I think that K is not the inert tower, as you say, but 
actually the "Auto Pilot" in the plane. Except that this auto pilot is so 
advanced that it is better than any pilot. In fact, this auto-pilot is 
the creator of the pilot as well as the plane.

Now, would you have problems in handing over the guidance of the plane to 
the auto-pilot? If you do, then you have probably some "surrender" 
problem to your own inner-self (that's actually what a typical guru would 
say).

Tej
 


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: Richard Satin <>
Subject: Mary's Question - list size


The list has about 135 people currently!  

Love,
Richard
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Dreamtime lasted a long time, a forever within a forever.
Aboriginal saying


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Re; Gurus /Patti

Hi: Royale Jills

You said:
>patti, Hi. I usually agree with you but not on the guru issue.  If it is a
real guru( of the Indian variety usually) it is one who is fully realized ,ie,
at one with god. and they are truly considered divine. They are in an
omnipitant (sp)? state and can really guide you properly.  I know some who say
they are, arn't, but lets not through out the baby with the bathwater.
Unfortunately it may be hard to tell the difference but Im sure you and other
list members can. Royale

I was trying to answer Patti so your comments came at the right time.  Some
times I just assume that people already know certain things and then just
leave some important points out.  I never had a guru until one intervened in
my problems on a spiritual level and still I am very cautious.  I think those
days when one just gives their life over to some one else with all their
money house & car are over then blindly follows the guru.   There is just to
much of that going on now at this time.  For a women to have sex with her
guru is very naive for sure.  I read the stories every day and there is no
doubt that a lot of it is true, but when the women still does it and then she
says the reason she did it was because maybe he was giving only her a special
blessing or teaching that only she would understand.  She then loves him more
for it.  Don't you think that the person should use some little common sense.
 

> I have heard of so many gurus that are named Guru-this, guru-that, and
who have pamplets, followings of thousands, lotus and rose petals thrown at
their feet...are we living on the same planet?

So have I, but as  Royale says: lets not through out the baby with the bath
water.

>If this were true then I might agree with you. Unfortunately, even gurus are
not immune from the seduction of power. 

That is also very true and especially when one is awakened.  As you know this
sexual energy can go out of control and even for a spiritual teacher.  Like:
Werner Erhart, Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggart and Osho.  When one is really
looking of God and he finds God that person better have the wisdom to control
this energy or he will become just like Werner Erhart, Jim Jones and  Jimmy
Swaggart.

>I interpret gurus broadly to mean spiritual/moral leaders who have
followers. In the western world,. As would priests, ministers, etc. Even New
Age leaders like Terry Cole-Whittaker, Marianne Williamson, etc.

In my own opinion the true guru is very hard to find and if you really want
to find one you maybe should go to the Himalaya mountains and search the
caves.  Not in the organizations. (Own opinion!)  If you ask a real guru, "
are you a guru" they will laugh because they don't think of them selfs as
gurus at all.  If for example if you invited a real guru over to give a talk.
 He will say," I don't know who you feel that I am and I really don't know
why you invited me here.  Do you expect me to fly around the room or
something?  Maybe do some magic tricks, Etc.  But I am happy that you invited
me here, it's nice to be here."   Then he would just set and do nothing until
some one asks a question.

For a person that does not understand he may search for a guru, but once he
understands he does not need the guru.   A teacher can not teach unless the
student is ready to learn.  Once the student is ready he doe not need the
teacher.   The gurus know that and that is why they might as well live in a
cave.  They are here only to introduce you to God or the higher force. 

>The problem with many (not all) of these leaders is that people who are
confused go to them seeking guidance. 

This is true and that makes me very upset as I went though it myself.  If you
were aware and strong then you could see right though this, but they are
looking of weak people.  ****  (Not All)! ****

I really understand where you are coming from and I know about Osho. You must
of been really hurt a lot.  It is not easy, but what is?  I am sure that once
a person passes on there will be all kinds of bad entities trying to fool
that person also. It's just the law of the jungle.  The big fish eats the
small fish.  The same thing happens every single day of  your life.  

My only suggestion is to study every thing that you can.  Become aware and
try to make a strong foundation so you can see through these things.  Don't
be an easy person, even when you walking  down the street in your own
neighborhood. 

True masters are real and it's a very hard road, but that is how a diamond is
made! 

Love,
Von


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Neat way to crucify kundalini

Hi: Tej


I have to go now, but yes I fought with my guru and with God.

Love,
Von


 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: "I.Juster"
Subject: Re: The Guru Thing

No one is saying, don't get advice from others. There is advice everywhere.
Yes, we can all learn AS WE CHOOSE FREELY. And only a fool would try to fly
a plane without instructions or lessons. 

The problem with gurus is this. Say you want to go to Paris. There are many
ways to go, and many decisions that can be made along the trip. You may
think that a dirct flight to Paris is what you want, but somewhere, somehow,
you decide, that along the way, you wish to stop in England. Or that you
want to take a boat. Or that you decided you would rather not fly to Paris,
but want to stay at home or return home and meditate.

The guru says, no you must fly on my plane. You must go to Paris. You cannot
go back. You cannot get off the plane.  It is the only way. If you leave now
you are wrong, and a helpless cripple who will crash and burn.

Yes, the k sets us on a journey, whether we asked for it or not. And some
people are better off with gurus, those who just want to fly to Paris on a
plane. Everyone else takes that plane at a risk.

Love, Patti


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: "I.Juster"
Subject: Re: Re; Gurus /Patti

Von, Royale, 

I suspected that we were working with differing definitions of gurus! 

The type of people you describe I call "traveling angels". 

True givers of light and love who ask for nothing in return. They must give
this gift away, given who they are. Your greatest gift to them might just be
the knowledge that you might take that light and love and spread it yourself.

I feel that way about the k. (Not implying that I am a traveling, angel)--
still, if I hold on to it, it burns inside of me to excess. It drives me to
stay on a certain path.  I feel I must pass it on in order to feel whole.
And I want nothing in return. Love is its own reward.

Love, Patti



 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: Geoffrey Keyte <>
Subject: The International Yoga Directory

Hi, Everyone

I am in the process of compiling The International Yoga Directory which
will be freely downloadable via  my World Wide Web Pages.

If you teach yoga - and would like to be included in my upcoming Directory
- please email me privately  the following details as soon as possible:-

Full Name
Postal Address
Telephone Number
Email address
URL (if applicable)


All best wishes

Geoffrey


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: K and art

Hi (k)ites (pronounced kayites - you all know who your are =-)

I saw a post about k and art and realized that my "duality with binding 
tertiary hidden content" thing has been with me a LONG time - well 
before the k-thing two months ago. Anyway I am NOT artistic, but have 
always enjoyed certain mental 'contructs' that occur to me 
spontaneously. These things I have called zoons (read that zen cartoons 
- how is that for a two for three in one =-). What they do for me is 
amuse me by tickling a part of my brain that seems physically to be in 
the very top center (yeah, I get the connection NOW).

Anyhooo, attached is a gif of one of these 'thunderclaps in in(k)'. 
Ponder this and let me know if it wiggles your wagon a bit too - I have 
lots more.

giggles,

DAN


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: Kundalini Transformation 

Hello Richard:

I have just returned from my Lazaris workshop and it was deeply spiritual 
and very life-changing, so hopefully I'll be a much more centered, 
Lighter, listmember (grin).

I am blown away by this quote of yours.  It is so deep, that I will have 
to refer back to it for a time, I'm sure.

Thank you so much for sharing it with us!

Much love, Karol Ann


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: Richard Satin <>
Subject: New Kundalini Book Shop

Dear List Members,

If you are on the web, please take a look at the kundalini list Web site.  
(http://www.execpc.com/~libra/)  I have made a few changes, and have added a
direct source for ordering any of the books mentioned so far on the list. 
It is easy and safe.

Also, please send any suggestions for books which you have found
particularly helpful or interesting, with or without comments.  You can send
these to me, or preferably; post them to the list.  If you think there
should be books present which you don't see, let me know and I'll add them.

It should go without saying that this is a convenience for us on the list,
and not a profit making venture. 

Hope you find it helpful.  It's been a lot of fun to put together ;>

Richard
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
...and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where 
we started and to know the place for the first time.
-T.S. Eliot


Date: Mon, 12 Aug 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Psychic stuff?

Hi (k)ites:=)

Someone wrote me to get used to the psychic stuff since it didn't stop 
for him and this was four years later! It happened again this morning 
at the gym (that place must be spooked - SEVERAL episodes have happened 
there - unusual too, noisy, brightly lit, engaged in physical activity, 
etc.).

The treadmills all face the aerobics workout room looking through 
windows. I hate getting a machine that has a window frame in front of 
it, or worse the one column in the row. That column has a floor length 
mirror on the wall to the left, on the left side, front and right side 
of the column and on the wall on the right side. Then the windows start 
again to the end of the line of treadmills. You got it, I was a little 
late getting to the gym and the only machine left was the one nosed 
into the right side of the column. That means jogging facing a mirror 
and another mirror to my left (on the right of the column). I was 
plodding along when suddenly I was startled by a man appearing behind 
the window in front of me - I hadn't seen his approach because it was 
blocked by the column. He was unfamiliar, wearing a turquoise jumpsuit, 
and continued walking along the wall of the aerobics room behind the 
row of windows in a direction to my right. So far, so good. When he got 
to the next window to my right, I almost fell off the treadmill. It was 
then that I realized that I had seen him COMPLETELY through what I had 
believed was a window, but was actually a wall and a mirror. He 
appeared exactly as if the mirror had been another window in the row 
and did not change in appearance as he continued to walk down the row 
of real windows. There appeared to be no significance to this event, 
but I can tell you'all that it was SPOOKY. Anyone else with similar 
"hallucinations"?

DAN (the friendly ghost  =-)