Date: Sun, 11 Aug kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 85 

From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Neat way to crucify kundalini

Hi: Tej

You Said:
>Thanks for your message. What you expressed is - right on! Actually I
do not feel sorry for expressing it so much as I actually feel sorry, or 
rather sympathise, with those who feel the need to look for some master or 
guru. And especially so if the kundalini switch is ON.   

        Which guru or master etc. can be better for one than the K itself, 
the core of the cosmos. Which guru or master can have more to power to 
help and guide? Who actually controls the destiny? I feel it is pure,
un-adulterated foolishness to bow down to, or touch the feet of, etc. etc.
of another when the pure resplendent energy is inside us. If we feel like
doing those things, we should do to the one inside us!

        Getting into the trap of gurus or masters can also impede our
progress in the K path. Every guru or master has his or her own opinions
about life and its values, depending upon their upbringing and their 
societal values. These may not be in consonance with how the K energy
wants to express in oneself, so by imbibing these values or thoughts
one can further impede K's progress, which has a 'tough' time as it is in
making us free from the conditioning.

----------------------------------------------
Sorry, but I must disagree with you.  I never did even hear about a Guru that
said he or she was a Guru.  It is the followers that set these people up as a
Gurus and many of them would not mind at all to just live in a cave.  There
is not a single Guru that will ask you to bow down and kiss their feet, Etc.
 If you have received something special from the Guru and would like to honer
him then that is up to you. A Gurus only reasion for being is just to connect
you up with God or the higher force and then they will get out of the way. 

I almost went completely crazy with my own experience and would love to have
had a Guru or anyone to help me at that time.  I don't know about your own
experience as you never did tell me, but for myself it was a nightmare.  From
leaving the body at night in the astrol and mental to fighting with entities,
Etc  I had no foundation at all.  It was such a shock to my system that I
almost went nuts.

I value with your opinion, but I must disagree with you for sure.

Love,
Von


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: Royale Jills <>
Subject: Dan

Dan, your feelings are understandable. Yes K. does often emphasize the sexual 
component, not necessarily by design but incidentally. 
 As to the danger, yes it can be in some cases where the Ks actions
 are more obvious to others who do not understand it. EXample, 
if someone lets themselves go and acts bizarre, others are tempted
o call the  funny farm. So it goes. 
 But, at times, K seems to be almost totally in control with 
a mind of its own,and once it has full command you cant control 
it at that time. Usually only last a little  while.Also
  Sex can be accentuated but by quiet meditation and intent
 it is subdued( if desired )also by cold or icy water. Hope this helps. Love Royale


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!

Hi: Judith

I can not relate to having five children, but they must keep you busy anyway.
You sound like a good mother and that is what counts.
 
Own interpretation:

1-everything is as it needs to be
 ( Every thing is perfect ! )

2-With love, there are no barriers
 ( There is only Love )

3-Physical Death is but a temporal phase 
( There is no death )

4-We are always in the presence of goodness.
 ( There is only Love )

5-We are always in the presence of negative forces or entities, however,
this, too,  will teach us, help us grow and has the wonderful possibility
of making us stronger and more loving.
( These are only shadows. Turn on the light and they will disappear )

6-Remember to accept others so that they can, at least, put up with our
nonsense and faults. 
 ( Give others a chance to evolve just like you have been given a chance )

7-Living in mindfulness is so cool and so very practical!
  ( Full awareness is the key )

Love,
Von 


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: Wendy <>
Subject: Undernet #!Kundalini

Greetings All,

I'm interested in having a discussion group on IRC Undernet about kundalini.
Do any of you now have a channel for this purpose or know of others?  If so,
please let me know the name of the channel and I'll join in there.

For now, when I'm on and available to discuss k, I'll open #!Kundalini for
any who might like to join me.  As IRC is filled with all kinds of lunacy
and distractions when trying to have a discussion about anything specific
(yes, sometimes I join in that lunacy too! ), this channel requires that
you type in a key word to enter.  The key is 'chakras' and the command to
enter is to type: 

                           /join #!Kundalini chakras.

Hope to 'meet' some of you 'live' on IRC as well as via email here on the k
list (also, live, of course!) LOL

Bless you all,

Wendy




Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
	                 - David Wilcox
___________________


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: Wendy <>
Subject: Undernet #!Kundalini

PS re: Undernet channel

If there isn't an existing channel already and there is enough interest
shown in having one ongoing, I'll get the channel registered so that it will
always be open and available to all.  Thanks.

Wendy

Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
	                 - David Wilcox
___________________


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: Royale Jills <>
Subject: Patti and all

Well, this energy that wakes me up really doesnt say anything 
or tell me anything or seem to want me to do anything. It just 
gives very strong tingles. Kinda like chills from a good
 experience or from an exceptionally good thought .Ive asked
 questions but never get any answers from it. Its weird!
Its not a sexual thing either. I really dont know what it
 is for sure, but I presume its just K. energy. Thanks for reply.Royale


 

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 
From: Wendy 
Subject: Perseid meteor shower

"August 11th is the anniversary of the discovery of the moons of Mars. Go
outside and make a wish tonight: it's the peak of the Perseid meteor shower. "

Found this at Amazon.com booksite on the web, looking up Richard's book ref
from his earlier post.

Be great if we all went out and wished One wish   

I'll be 'out' there...listening.

Wendy


Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
	                 - David Wilcox
___________________


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject: re:  Good Morning & community

Just got back into town after spending a week with my mom who is slowly 
folding up her tent, and yes, Wendy, I most definitely felt the 
presence of this community though I was nowhere near a computer.  Am 
grateful for all and especially for K, without which her dying would be 
infinitely more difficult for me.

How exciting to see how the list has grown in just a week!

Holly


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: "Debee L. Thomas" <>
Subject: Re: Undernet #!Kundalini

> I'm interested in having a discussion group on IRC Undernet about kundalini.
> Do any of you now have a channel for this purpose or know of others?  If so,
> please let me know the name of the channel and I'll join in there.

There are indeed other channels available for good discussion on 
spirituality, philosophy, holistic healing and much more.  One such 
channel is my own on the Undernet called #GreatOak. Another is called 
#TheKindred and another #Reiki.  There is another channel on Dalnet 
called #Ethereal_Circle.  These are just a few.  They are growing in 
numbers and all have people who are walking a similar path and who enjoy 
conversing with others.  My nick there is HinhanSka.  Hope to see you there.

Blessed Be
 
Debee


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: Melissa Ann Fornof <>
Subject: leaving

Dear Listmembers,

I must leave the list now.  My baby is now a toddler, which takes most of 
my time and energy, and I am going back to school at the end of this 
month.  There is just too much mail and not enough time for me to keep up 
with it right now.  

I would like to say thank you to everyone on the list--the advice, 
suggestions, support, information, and even the opposing viewpoints have 
been irreplaceable and more precious than gold or jewels.  Thanks be to 
everyone.  I hope to rejoin this list in the future.

Love to all, Melissa


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: "I.Juster" <>
Subject: undernet

Wendy, I may speak for many of us who are curious about IRC but have never
used it. Some I'll bet don't even know what IRC means. I beleive it is some
type of phone thing over internet and satelites? 
 
I am interested...could you tell us newbies a little more?

Thanks, Patti


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: Wendy 
Subject: undernet

>Wendy, I may speak for many of us who are curious about IRC but have never
>used it. Some I'll bet don't even know what IRC means. I beleive it is some
>type of phone thing over internet and satelites? 
>
>I am interested...could you tell us newbies a little more?
>
>Thanks, Patti
>
>

Hi Patti, 

Yes, apologies to those who aren't familiar with IRC, etc.  IRC (Internet
Relay Chat) is really no different than connecting here via email and web
browsing.  You use a 'chat' program like MIRC (readily available, can be
downloaded off the net...it is shareware) and log on , just as you would log
on to the WWW with Netscape (most slip/ppp accounts use Trumpet Winsock to
do so).

Anyone who has ever done 'chat' on Prodigy, Compuserve or AOL will be
familiar with it as it's basically the same thing here on the Internet.
There are several areas one can log into..the larger services being Efnet,
Undernet and Dalnet.  I mostly use Undernet when online.

Once online you can message back and forth live with others, either
privately, one on one, or in various channels.  People on IRC are known by
their nicknames (e. g. "Eastwind").

Like everything else, IRC has its advantages and disadvantages.  It's not
the phone chat you mentioned Patti, that is something else (where one can
talk with anyone in the world via IRC basically 'free' - using a program for
that purpose and either your  computer microphone or telephone - there are
various programs for doing it either way).

If anyone would like more specifics or info as to which program you would
need to log on to IRC (PC or MAC variables, etc etc), please drop me an
email and I'll try to help you out.

I think it would be nice, sometimes, to continue some of the list
discussions online, if anyone's interested in doing so.
 
Best wishes

Wendy

Leap and the net will appear.
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
___________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
	                 - David Wilcox
___________________


Date: Sun, 11 Aug 
From: "I.Juster"
Subject: Re: Neat way to crucify kundalini

>Sorry, but I must disagree with you.  I never did even hear about a Guru that
>said he or she was a Guru. 
 
Von, I have heard of so many gurus that are named Guru-this, guru-that, and
who have pamplets, followings of thousands, lotus and rose petals thrown at
their feet...are we living on the same planet?

> If you have received something special from the Guru and would like to honer
>him then that is up to you. A Gurus only reasion for being is just to connect
>you up with God or the higher force and then they will get out of the way. 

If this were true then I might agree with you. Unfortunately, even gurus are
not immune from the seduction of power. 

I interpret gurus broadly to mean spiritual/moral leaders who have
followers. In the western world, Werner Erhart, Jim Jones, Jimmy Swaggart,
etc would fit this description. As would priests, ministers, etc. Even New
Age leaders like Terry Cole-Whittaker, Marianne Williamson, etc. 

The problem with many (not all) of these leaders is that people who are
confused go to them seeking guidance. They are told, follow me (the leader),
I can help. All is well until the follower has an independent thought that
does not agree with the leader. At this point, the follower is told, you are
wrong, you are sinning, only I am right. Yet who is to say that one is more
right for a  specific person than himself or herself? 

 And the "guru" often disables the seeker's abiliites to learn and think for
him(her) self in the process. So maybe the information to begin with was
helpful, but in time, the person becomes dependent on this information, and
loses his or her abilities to access the divine alogether, or feels that the
intermediary is necessary at all times.

Perhaps you could define gurus differently? The only guru I have ever met
that said,Follow your own path, choose your own bliss (etc.) was my beloved
Osho, and he was definitely power-crazy despite the fact that he was truly
enlightened. Very bizarre negative trips went on at his farm in Oregon. 

I have concluded that one can be enlightened, show others some wonderful
paths and share information, but that does not mean that this person will
not be potentially disabling and harmful to others. True, some might advance
with this guru, but others will be found wrong for being who they are around
this guru too.
 
The only true experience of the divine is what we experience in ourselves.
In Tantra, there is no need for a guru. All of life is divine, and all we
need to do is to surrender (sur-render comes from the Latin, loosely meaning
"melt up into").
>
>I almost went completely crazy with my own experience and would love to have
>had a Guru or anyone to help me at that time.  

I feel that way myself often. I yearn for someone to show me the way. The
best I get are pieces of puzzles along the journey. I have resolved myself
to this. That in itself makes me feel better.

>I value with your opinion, but I must disagree with you for sure.
Ditto. By the way, I loved how you reinterpreted Judith's poem. I was very
moved by both the poem and your addition to it. 


Love, as always, Patti

 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Neat way to crucify kundalini

Hi. I agree. That's why I say a guru can be someone who is not of this earth 
anymore. It is your higher self who is communicating with the guru-god. I 
feel that us mere mortals with a K awakening should follow our deepest 
instinct when it comes to choosing a path since it's our higher self who's 
directing everything. By all this, I mean: trust yourself and you will be on 
the right way.

By the way, I had another dream that was so, well, a beautiful dream. I was a 
dot of color, of energy, in a sea of colored dots. There was no physical 
world like here. It was very powerful. 


>Hi Snow bird!
>
>        Thanks for your message. What you expressed is - right on!
> Actually I
>do not feel sorry for expressing it so much as I actually feel sorry, or 
>rather sympathise, with those who feel the need to look for some master or 
>guru. And especially so if the kundalini switch is ON.   
>
>        Which guru or master etc. can be better for one than the K itself, 
>the core of the cosmos. Which guru or master can have more to power to 
>help and guide? Who actually controls the destiny? I feel it is pure,
>un-adulterated foolishness to bow down to, or touch the feet of, etc. etc.
>of another when the pure resplendent energy is inside us. If we feel like
>doing those things, we should do to the one inside us!
>
>        Getting into the trap of gurus or masters can also impede our
>progress in the K path. Every guru or master has his or her own opinions
>about life and its values, depending upon their upbringing and their 
>societal values. These may not be in consonance with how the K energy
>wants to express in oneself, so by imbibing these values or thoughts
>one can further impede K's progress, which has a 'tough' time as it is in
>making us free from the conditioning.
>
>Peace and Love,
>Tej
>
>----

SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


Date: Mon, 12 Aug
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Neat way to crucify kundalini

All this, with people calling themselves or being labeled gurus, is called: 
organized religion. When religion is organized, you're sure to see and feel 
politics into it. I mean, that's why there was the Inquisition and the 
Crusades to begin with. Way back then, the pope thing was very political. Why 
would anyone want to kill someone who is not on the same side of the fence 
religiously?

There has been too much intolerance and agression toward people of other 
beliefs. I just can't comprehend why people would follow someone like 
Swaggart or Williamson, who sound to me like people in need of an audience to 
validate their existence. Does this sound harsh?

Someone in the posts mentioned : "when the K switch is ON." Can it be ever 
OFF?


SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com

 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug
From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Wondering!

Thank you for your suggestion. I omitted to mention in this post that this 
energy is also felt constantly in my feet and knees at the same time and the 
writs also. I feel like I'm that thing they use for musical instrument 
tuning, a "diapason". Vibrating all over. Since it started I did meditate 
every morning lying down, it was something that came on its own, by instinct 
or from my higher self.

I'm not sure what you mean with the use of the hands. Using them like they do 
in reiki? 

I wish I could take a break sometime from the physical aspect.

I'll try with the meditation technique for the moment. Thank you.

> 
>I read your post and wanted to offer some guidance with your problem, and 
>I hope that I can be of some help. I am a chi-kung instructor and this is 
>a common symtom when you are sending the energy to the top of the head 
>too much, either consiously or sub-consiously(sp) with the micro and 
>macro cosmic orbit.
> 
>You can take your hands and pull the energy very slowly down to your 
>feet, so that it can disperse. Depending on the severity of your symptoms 
>this could take a couple of trys. Pull it down slowly, so that you are 
>getting all of the stagnent energy out of the head. If I understand you 
>correctly, you probably feel like you have a halo or helmet on your head.
>When doing this concentrate on taking the energy to the feet, and 
>eventually you will be able to think the energy to the feet.
> 
>The other method is a lying down meditation, where you totally relax all 
>body parts down and get into a deep state of relaxation. Then you will 
>start to either just move the stagnent energy with the mind to the feet 
>or do the pull downs mentioned above. Sometimes these methods will take a 
>little while to get to work, but they have helped  me and others.
> 
>I hope that I was able to help.
> 
>Respectfully
> 
>Al Perhacs
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com