Date: Thu, 8 Aug kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 82 

From: tejkohliATNOSPAMgiasdl01.vsnl.net.in
Subject: your post

Hi Karol Ann !

	I am slow in replying to my mails due to the large quantum of them
and the paucity of time. You had said:

>> I guess it is really subjective what constitutes "erotic art" and what 
>> constitutes "pornography". But if I gather your conclusion correctly, you are 
>> saying that the difference between "erotic art" and "pornography" is that the 
>> latter arouses our desires whereas the former doesn't. Then if "pornography"


>I think the difference is intent.  Erotic art celebrates the sensuous 
>while pornography, IMHO, is manipulative and seeks to dominate which is 
>negative.

I cannot completely agree with you. I have seen some "pornographic" movies
that are quite sort of light and free and joyful and where no one is trying to 
dominate, but just have some fun. Would you still call them "pornographic" 
or you would you then call them "erotic art"? Where exactly is the 
distinction?  Pardon my rudeness, for I don't mean to be so, but it could
just be that you see the theme of dominance played in the display of sex?

Tej

	


Date: Thu, 08 Aug 
From: Royale Jills <>
Subject: Welcome

Hi Michael, Hope you like the list.  There are several books i can recommend.
Here are three of them:  The Kundalini Experience, by Lee Sannella. Awaken
Healing Energy Through The Tao, by Mantak Chia. And The Sun Is Up; Kundalini
Rises in the West. Love to you and congrats.  Royale


Date: Thu, 8 Aug 
From: tejkohliATNOSPAMgiasdl01.vsnl.net.in
Subject: "neat way to crucify kundalini"

Hi everyone!

	This is regarding the posts on kundalini and the various religions
or religious leaders - dead or alive. 

	Kundalini has nothing to do with all this. Kundalini or energy was
there, when none of them were there. It will be the same when all of them 
are dead and gone. It is what has created all these, and into it all
dissolve. All the religions only tried to find its(k's) truths in the best 
way they could, and express it to the people of those times in the best way 
they could. Whatever they said then, sounds sometimes ridiculous now.
Today, religion has become the gratest curse of humankind for two basic
reasons - one, it has divided humankind, and two - it has kept us from
discovering or rediscovering the real truth for ourselves today - afresh and
alive. 

Gurus, masters, gods and the like - keep us away from making effort and
discovering the only true master or guru - our own inner-self.	

Sorry, but that's the way I feel,

Tej		


Date: Thu, 08 Aug 
From: Royale Jills <>
Subject: Daniel

WElcome to the K. list.  May it fulfill your hopes.  Most of us have had
similiar experiences and it is good to find that! Royale


 
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: your post

Hi: Tej

You said:
>I cannot completely agree with you. I have seen some "pornographic" movies
that are quite sort of light and free and joyful and where no one is trying
to 
dominate, but just have some fun. Would you still call them "pornographic" 
or you would you then call them "erotic art"? Where exactly is the 
distinction?  Pardon my rudeness, for I don't mean to be so, but it could
just be that you see the theme of dominance played in the display of sex?

------------------------------------------------------------

What is normal and what is not?   For example the person in Milwaukee who ate
people. Domoner or something?  To him it was normal to do what he did.  In
fact he was trying to build an alter for God to thank him for all the love he
received by eating his victims. He loved his victims so much that he had to
eat their hearts. That was his way of showing love.  The doctors said he was
expressing his sexual fantasies and got really turned on by doing it 

Normal for who?  There is not such thing as normal there are only degrees of
consciousness. 

I feel that as long as it does not hurt another person then it is ok. Maybe
that person will not evolve much, but that is his life.  Sex is one thing
that there is just not end. A person without knowing it just keeps looking
for more and more satisfaction.  In the end nothing will satisfy him or her.
 It will lead to body mutilations, torture, Etc. .  In Hollywood there are
people looking for more and satisfaction that will  pay big money to see
actual body mutilations and torture. It really turns them on.  Can you see
the dangers with out discipline?  In Japan on the train or subways you will
see people reading magazines right in the open with full page pictures of
women being tortured with chains or rope, Etc.  That's just normal, Right?
   Even my last post about women and coffee that offended so many people.
It is just normal in many places.   



As always,
Von  


Date: Thu, 08 Aug 
From: Royale Jills 
Subject: energy

to Mimue.  As k. energy is all energy, it is also sexual.  I agreed about the
Cohen tape . It is very good as a meditation tool. Royale


Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: My 1st Kundalini experience

I am a white male, 46 years old, fairly conservative, married (20 years 
to the same wife - Karen), have one son 19 years old. Have read a bit 
about Buddhism, yoga, meditation, Eastern thought - didn't understand 
much. Took a TM course in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in 1973 - did the TM for 
a few months and then tapered off and stopped - nothing of significance 
other than deep relaxation happened. Religiously was raised & 
communicated a Missouri Synod Lutheran. During Naval service/Viet Nam 
war vacillated between atheism/agnosticism - no real convictions at 
this time. Have adult Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder ADHD - 
no other health problems - have been obese most of my life 300+ lbs. Am 
now about 176 lbs. and try hard to maintain that. Smoked for ten years, 
quit at age 32. Smoked weed a bit during the war and took LSD on a few 
occasions - found the weed relaxing, but the other disconcerting with 
visual, audio hallucinations - did not care for that. Stopped drugs 
shortly after discharge from service. Have always prided myself on 
being logical, practical, pragmatic and analytical. Then........

On midnight of June 22, 1996 - I had just gotten back to bed from a 
trip to the john and layed down when an earthquake started or at least 
it felt so. I have NEVER felt such terror in my life! I was unable to 
get up as I felt sensations of white-hot lava blowing through every 
atom of my body and out of the top of my head. I was shuddering 
violently from head to foot as I experienced all pain and all pleasure 
that exists, has existed, and will ever exist simultaneously with 
complete and utter non-sensation, all knowledge and all ignorance with 
the simultaneous understanding of the unimportance of both, blindingly 
white searing light and cool enveloping absolute darkness with the 
clear perception of the dimensionless void that is the source of and 
insupportable matrix of both. These and other indescribable sensations/ 
experiences came and went in unfathomably intense waves. I knew from 
the little bit of reading that I had done that I was experiencing the 
release of kundalini - the serpent fire. In the wave troughs I was able 
to only spit out, "I'm OK" to my wife Karen, who thought I was having a 
heart attack. During one of the low troughs, I managed to jump out of 
bed to my feet as I thought it was over. Suddenly, the freight-train/ 
earthquake shaking started building again. From my brief encounters 
with Eastern thought, I at least knew what was happening in Buddhist 
terms and realized that this was not a medical problem, but what would 
be called by someone religious a mystical event. It was scaring me 
nevertheless. During the couple of TM training classes I had taken they 
explained that although the lotus position was traditionally used for 
meditation and was given lots of mystic significance, the practical 
aspect of it was to place the body in a balanced position. I was 
experiencing cramping as the first rushes happened while I was laying 
on my side in bed and my body was tensed one way the whole time. As I 
felt it coming back I said to Karen, "It's OK, but it is happening 
again" and headed for the living room and sat nude in the middle of the 
living room floor in the lotus position (I do that and a bunch of other 
positions at the spa between my exercises as stretches). For an hour, 
she watched and worried as I sat shaking with gallons of sweat pouring 
out of every pore on the trunk of my body while my head and extremities 
remained dry and cool. My spine turned a livid black-and-blue color 
from the base to the hairline. Immediately after it had subsided enough 
for me to do so, I took my pulse and found that it was 68 bpm! This was 
NOT an average night by a long shot!!

That was about two months ago. I seem to have been affected in a number 
of ways. I can't seem to keep from blurting out whatever I am feeling 
at the time to anyone - sometimes hurting that person's feelings. I 
have always had a hard time admitting when I am wrong...ever - yet 
lately, I freely admit every time when I have done something wrong and 
apologize immediately to the person I have wronged. In addition, I seem 
to be able to see clearly what in my past caused me to do whatever it 
was that caused the particular problem. I mentioned losing a lot of 
weight above and it has been a combination of diet and exercise over 
the last two years - however, my taste seems to be changing to simpler 
and simpler foods. I have always had premonitions about myself and 
family and despite not being able to explain their source, I have 
learned to listen to them - on one occasion it saved my whole family 
from danger that could easily have been fatal. Recently, however, I 
have had over a dozen smaller kundalini episodes sometimes with 
extremely strong premonitions about OTHER people - most of the 
impressions I don't understand and, after checking with the person 
involved to see that they won't dismiss me as a flake, pass the details 
on to them. I have not gotten any feedback yet, but it doesn't seem 
important - as soon as I pass the information on, the recollection of 
the impression fades as if it was a dream. The experiences have been 
happening at odd times and places: between set of quadriceps 
extensions, after sitting down in a cool tub of water, standing in a 
back yard at a party. The most recent time lasted for 27 minutes while 
on was on a treadmill jogging at 6.5 mph, with my eyes open! - I 
thought that was not possible as my idea of meditation has always 
entailed closed eyes, comfortable relaxed position, quiet surroundings, 
etc. I have also looked into the guarded soul of a woman that I met 
only once and wound up sobbing uncontrollably as just a brief glimpse 
told me that she had suffered so incredibly as a child  that I couldn't 
bear to keep looking. I have seen for the first time what are referred 
to as chakras - to my 'mind's eye' they are NOT round, do NOT have 
colors in the rainbow-sense, do NOT have petals, and do NOT spin like 
platters - maybe is just my way of seeing them, but to me they billow 
like cumulus clouds, have irridescent/pearlescent hues, and scintillate 
like embers. Recently while sitting next to my wife at a conference, I 
became aware that she was in distress that didn't show outwardly. I 
placed my hand instinctively on the back of her neck and 'felt' my 
'fingers' go inside and stroke and soothe her brain. Later in the car 
on the way home, she told me, "that was very nice and much better than 
a Tylenol". She said she didn't want to disturb anyone there, but had a 
headache so strong that the whole side of her face was aching and that 
within seconds of my hand touching her neck the headache disappeared 
completely.

I seem to be stumbling along blindly with this and doing what comes 
naturally. It seems familiar somehow and doesn't scare me, but I would 
feel better if I had a scientific explanation of this. I have tried to 
control the experience and when I do, it goes away. I can't get 
premonitions by trying but they come unbidden when I let go. One 
overwhelming piece of information keeps coming back to me and it is 
this: thinking of deity in male or female or male/female concepts is so 
laughable as to be beyond belief, I cannot imagine ANYONE who has, even 
briefly, touched the so-called 'infinite' being able to ever refer to 
deity in anthropomorphic terms - a more useless, pedestrian, narrow 
exercise is difficult to imagine unless it is the Falls-Down-Rolls- 
On-Floor-Laughing-Hysterically idea that deity can only be understood, 
or speaks only a human language, i.e., Arabic, Hebrew, Latin, Pali, 
Tibetan, etc.

I only wonder where this goes from here - somehow, I have the idea that 
where ever it leads, it has been there before and will go there again.


Date: Thu, 8 Aug 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: hi i'm new

Jada,
Hi, I'm also one that has been involved in it for many years. It does sound
pretty strange to most folks and it is best not to expose them to something
that isn't right then a part of their environment. When the right time comes
it really just flows in or they ask about it. You can talk about the Holy
Spirit with more folks without distrubing them. Welcome to our world. Gloria
Joy Greco GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com You can check out my homepage if you wish
http://www.inetworld.com/lodpress/


Date: Thu, 08 Aug 
From: Iver Juster <>
Subject: Re: neat way to crucify kundalini

> 
> I recall the saying, if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him! That
> is to say, anyone getting in the way of your path of spirituality is
> going to divert you from your path. If you want to stay on the path, the
> pretender/obstructor must be removed.
> 
> Often, people with addictive personalities are looking for an excuse to
> give up their power; they use the guru and/or their power-organizations
> as an excuse to do so. Together the ego-weak and the power hungry make a
> fine couple.
> 
> Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. One problem with
> established religions of any kind is that people with hungry egos sieze
> and abuse power. Then the message originating from the original being of
> light gets lost. Then the message becomes, You *need* Me in order to
> experience your own divinity. Very few organized religions exist whose
> sole purpose is to empower people to have direct access to their own
> spiritual nature. Hierarchies evolve. How can any one make a buck and/or
> otherwise control the disciples? The leaders wind up depriving them of
> their access to God--go to priests--, and (of course)saying that
> people's own bodies dirty and sinful! People must be sold on the
> afterlife (certainly not the here and now); they are told they are born
> in sin, etc.
> 
> Having said all this, I feel it is possible to learn from what others
> have to share without giving up my power. There are many carriers of the
> k, who serve as genuine guides and initiators of others into this
> energy. Not all gurus and carriers of the k are powercrazed. Many have
> valuable gifts and give them freely.
> 
> I like to distinguish between what the guru says and what he or she (and
> his or her organization) does. Osho is a prime example, power corrupted
> him, yet he was very enlightened and spoke deeply to my soul. The more
> confidence we have in our own connection to the divine, the less we can
> ever be threatened and the freer we can be to entertain all viewpoints
> without buying into any addictive power patterns.
> 
> I read posts on the k which resonate deeply with my own experience, and
> feel empowered, like wow, I noticed that too. It affirms my ceratinty of
> my experience. For me, when I read of the orgasmic, undifferentiated,
> primal nature, my whole body resonates with YES!
> 
> I don't mind the differences of opinion. In fact, I am secure enough in
> my own sense of k that I enjoy almost all  the posts. What gets to me
> are those who come on here with the holier-than-thou attitudes, labels,
> and put downs. The know-it-alls who invalidate the authentic, unqique
> experiences of others. Often these people quote some guru or another as
> their justification, and I can really see how wars get started.
> 
> 
> Thanks, love to all, Patti
> 
> PS I thought Wendy did a wonderful job of agreeing with Maimu about
> celibacy in a very gentle way, she spoke for herself, it made me feel
> really good. Many others have also consistently displayed a lot of love
> and care. I wish everyone (including me, when I get unconscious) would
> aim for a loving, thoughtful approach, when talking on this list. We are
> all pretty sensitive and pick up the energies.


Date: Thu, 8 Aug 
From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: My 1st Kundalini experience

Hello Daniel and welcome to the list:

Many on this list can relate to you and your experiences.

Very recently, my husband (whose k awakened about 6 yrs after mine) had a 
singular experience not that different from yours.  He was incredulous at 
how much power was released in him in a spontaneous way.  He was also 
very afraid -- an emotion we have all dealt with, I presume, in this 
process.  

I had a visit in the Light and yes, it is impossible to tell but I keep 
trying *8-) because I love to revisit that experience.  For an instant, I 
knew everything and I mean everything and it was wonderful.  But of 
course it was too huge to bring back with me, so....here I am, still 
seeking, searching and finding an answer every now and again.

I'm so glad you shared the nuances of your experience.  I wish more
Listers would do that.  It is fascinating to both know exactly (more or
less) how someone feels as their k unfolds and to wonder how they feel as
well. 

Again welcome and may you feel that you belong here, as dear Gloria said, 
in "our world."

Karol Ann

PS (I will be out of town until Monday.  Have a nice weekend everyone)


 
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: To Daniel

Hi Daniel:

Welcome to the list.

I;m sure a lot of us could relate to your post.  You described the "K"
experience so well.

For me it was the single most shocking and terrifying experience of my life,
and I was 49 at the time.

The psychic stuff doesn't go away, so you might as well get used to it.
 That's the bad news, the good news is that the energy does settle as time
goes on.  It's now almost 4 years into my experience and my body finally has
days when there are no hot flashes or sweats----not every day, but some days
which is a relief.

The sense that your hand went into your wife's brain I definetly could relate
to. For about a year afterwards, my whole body felt so fluid that even
walking was wierd, because I felt as if my feet were going through the
pavement.  Overall I felt as if my balance was off, almost as if I  was
drunk.

Then there was the constant information streaming through me, from the
universal energy that we call "K".  That too has settled down, and is just
there if I want to know anything.  It felt as if I had fallen into a
universal computer and was on the inside looking out for a while. 

I could also relate to your need to be honest.The trouble is that the world
isn't ready for such honesty.  They burned people at the stake not too long
ago, who were honest about what they knew.  If many more people go through
"K", the age of Aquarius is going to be very interesting.

You mentioned seeing the chakras as if they were cumulus clouds.  Each of the
different energy levels is made up of different kinds of energy, and so the
chakras look different depending on which level you are seeing at.  I also
see them as white energy. The one at my crown chakra looks like white flames.


My life has never been the same since, and I am still trying to put it into
some kind of order.  Other than this list, it's even difficult to know how to
relate to others.  I have ended up telling only one member of my family for
instance.

It's like Debbie I think it was said:

Before enlightnment chop wood, carry water
After enlightenment chop wood, carry water

this is basically where I am at with all of this.  I'd be interested to hear
if others have radically changed their lives, or are we all still carrying
water?

Love Jule


 
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 
From: John Halonen 
Subject: Meditation


Standing in meditation, 
Sitting in meditation,
Moving in meditation,
Laughing in meditation,
Crying in meditation,
no meditation.