From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Karma

I also think that ultimately everything gets even. But what if karma is not 
linear? You or me might think there's injustice because we seem to always get 
the short end of the stick. 

Why do some people have an awakening and not others?

Love to all.



>I have a view of karma that may be different from the majority opinion. Oh
>well...here goes....
>
>First, a story:
>There was a spiritual seeker who went from guru to guru, looking to reach
>samahdi. Each time he found a practice, he was told, "If only you go little
>higher, then you will reach it...if only you will (fill in the blank) a
>little more...then you will get there.
>
>One day he got tired of not reaching samahdi. He decided to give up his
>searching and to see everything around him as filled with the divine love
>and light of samahdi. He embraced existence in the NOW. And he found
>samahdi, and that he could get there any time he wanted to.
>
>(This is a tantric story.) We call the first path, the indirect path to
>samahdi. The second path, the direct path to samahdi.
>
>Now: what does this have to do with karma (and kundalini?)!!
> 
>In my experience, when I had my awakening, the k actually burned out my
>karmic chain. I had a distinct sense of being born again, a clean slate. It
>felt to me that I was beyond time, in a place of pure and total love for
> all
>around me. I was truly born again into a state of pure love.
>
>It felt as if the karma had been cleansed.
>
>Karma is a type of debt system. You do something to someone that isn't very
>nice, and they retailiate. You retailiate. Or maybe you do pennace, but
> then
>someone else does something to that other person for what they did to you.
>So the way karma is perpetuated is to foster "an eye for an eye" type
>existence. What ends the karmic chain? Love and forgiveness and
>understanding. When someone sends mean to you, you forgive them and if
>possible, send love back. That way you keep your own karma clear. See the
>perfection in what happens, (god(desses)'s will, if you will), and seed
> love
>back out in the world, whatever it was that was sent your way.
>
>People on the direct path are the ones that have the ability to do this. It
>is  a myth that we must keep going "higher" and "higher" in order to be
>fully realized. After all, if the light is within us, then all we need to
> do
>is to recognize that, too. We don't need to go anywhere, just open the
> doors
>inside ourselves.
>
>Being on the indirect path can become an excuse for not being loving NOW.
>(I'll be lovng, when I get there.) And so I ask: How willing are we to be
>bearers and senders of light on to the planet NOW? 
>
>
>The k, for me, by gifting me this awesome and precious experience, gave me
>this understanding of karma. We can create love, and end the karmic circle
>of hate and pennance, and we can do it NOW. 
>
>We do not need to wait until we reach some top of some ladder in the sky.
>That thinking is keeping us out of heaven, not getting us closer. That
>thinking leads people into wars over whose ladder is higher and better. It
>leads people into thinking they are better than others, further developed,
>etc. That thinking separates people from their own divine nature, instead
> of
>bringing them closer. That thinking leads to a feeling that the body is not
>holy it is evil and sinful and shameful. It leads to classes, social stata,
>castes, elitism, and so on. It deplores the physical plane, as if God were
>not everywhere. It justifies discrimination towards women, towards people
>who hold beliefs other than theirs. It sets up walls, and boundaries, and
>all the reasons that negative karma gets generated, over and over. 
>
>It is in the dissolving of these boundaries that karma is cleansed. The k
>has the ability to get us to dissolve our boundaries, go into the light,
>have a direct experience of the divine, and send that message of divine
> love
>onto the planet. The k is located in our bodies, (not in heaven), but here,
>heaven on earth. The k may rise through our bodies, but our body is its
>home. When my k rose through my crown, it came up the back, through the
>crown and then down the front. It cycled through my body, over and over. It
>did not leave. It is there. Here. Inside me, today. And, as far as I can
>tell, inside everyone, asleep or awakened, to one degree or another.
>
>As I said, this is just one person's experience and interpretation. I am
>certain that there are translations into other faiths that retain the
>essence of this thought.
>
>With respect, and love, Patti
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 
From: Niles Rodrick <>
Subject: twilight zone

'Civilized man built a cage,...locked himself in it,...and wonders,...what's
wrong?!... Fearful of what he might find,...he hides from his own shadow,...in
the sanctity of his ego.'


     I find it ironic that I would come onto a list that supposedly is
     dedicated to Kundalini, and find the same  arrogance towards it as is
     everywhere else. To be ignorant  is one thing, but this is redicules.

     You seek answers to your existence, yet you mock those answers at every
     turn. You take something simple and beautiful, and turn it into
     complication and vulgarity. You theorize about this, and you theorize
     about that, and if anyone dares to speak anything that would upset your
     little apple cart, you denounce them as not being spiritual. You sit high
     on your pedistal, separating yourself  from that which you are. You insult
     God with your better than thou bullshit. 

     Well, surprise, surprise, surprise...If it weren't for sex you wouldn't be
     here! If it weren't for sex nothing would be here. You can theorize till
     your blue in the face, but the FACT of the matter is:  YOU CAME FROM SEX.
     The sooner you accept this FACT,  the sooner you can get on with the
     purpose of Kundalini. And believe it or not,  there is noone more obsessed
     with sex than God. Look around you folks, God is 'doing it' everywhere. No
     shame here. God does it in us, never mind in front of us. God is sex, you
     are sex,...so if your truly seeking your creator, look from whence you
     come,...SEX!

      You would not drive your car into the rapids, because It would destroy
      you and your car. It is not concerned about your car.  It's only purpose
      is to return to the sea and If you and your car get in the way, thats
      your problem. So to Kundalini has one purpose, and that is to unite the
      male and female principles within each and every one of us, and like the
      rapids, if you get in the way, (with your concepts, beliefs, etc.), it
      will destroy you.

    Kundalini is INTELLIGENT, and once activated, knows exactly what to do. It
    cares not what your concepts are, what your beliefs are, your theories,
    whether or not your good or bad, or religious, or rightous, or any thing
    else for that matter. It has one purpose and one purpose only. And that is
    to unite the opposites.

     The quickest way to activate Kundalini is to have sex with your other self.
     If your male, have sex with your inner female. If female, have sex with
     your inner male. This is easily done by merely thinking it. Eventually
     Kundalini will make itself known to you, and when it does, you won't have
     to ask anyone, you'll know it!  Ahhh, but can you handle it? Can you
     accept the mirror of reality which is so foreign to everything you have
     been taught?  Welcome to the ' twilight zone'.

      The effects of Kundalini on the mind are astounding because it does not
      fit into civilized mans concept of himself. Once activated,  you quickly
      realize that you are dealing with something totally beyond anything or
      any concept civilised man could devise. And what that mirror shows you is
      the FACT that you are a hermerphedite. Likewise the physical effects are
      extremely powerful, due to the massive amount of energy released into the
      body through the spinal column. The art of hatha yoga, which is a spoke
      of kundalini, is to prerare one for the physical aspects. Keeping the
      mind still (no thought) allows Kundalini to do it's work without
      interference. To still the mind, focus on 'feeling'. For those of you who
      find this to be to simple, I leave it in your capable hands to complicate
      it.

     And the final outcome of this union? Balance, oneness with yourself and
     all of creation, expanded awareness, (Life without an active Kundalini can
     be likened to a camera focused on a rose, with the rose taking up the
     entire lens area. Life with an active kundalini is like pulling back with
     the camera, so that you see not only the rose, but the entire garden as
     well).  And what a garden it is!  And finally the joy and peace of
     wholeness, completeness, and totally unrestricted love.


Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:30:
From: ijuster <>
Subject: Re: Karma

At 10:02 PM 7/24/96, you wrote:
>I also think that ultimately everything gets even. But what if karma is not 
>linear? You or me might think there's injustice because we seem to always get 
>the short end of the stick. 
>
>Why do some people have an awakening and not others?
>
>Love to all.
>
Snowbird, 

The best understanding I ever got about karma came from a book called 2150
AD, by Thea Alexander. It was a 1976 cult sci-fi all time classic. It
upleveled my understanding considerably. To me this book is about my second
most favorite sci-fi ever, next to my all time favorite, Stranger in a
Strange Land.

I can only guess why some people have an awakening and not others. I have
made up all kinds of hyptheses. None of which can ever be proven, of course.
They range from , well maybe I did something in a former lifetime to maybe
there is a call from the future that is a morphogenetic field grabbing more
and more souls because the planet needs to be saved, to total meaningless
coincidence. Etc. I fancy I am an old soul, personally, but my imagination
roams alot!

For me of more importance and more value is how I choose to respond to what
comes my way. Am I going to keep the karmic circle going or break the
chains? (Remember the Vanessa Williams song, with the words, Love breaks the
chains?- That always tugs on my heart strings.)

I am not a saint, far from it. Still, I have used this information about
returning love out many times in deciding how to proceed and definitely feel
the better off for having done so.

2150 AD is available through Amazon.com books, by the way, I just
checked.....in case someone is looking for a cool book to read.
             
Best, Patti   :=}
               


Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 
From: Richard Satin <>
Subject: Re: Karma

Dear Patti,

I remember reading this book when I was a young teenager. It made a real
impression on me - though all the details seem to be gone from my mind.

I took your advice and ordered it from amazon.com books (http://www.amazon.
com).  Thanks for the remembrance.

Richard

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> 
> From: Iver Juster              \ Internet:    (ijusterATNOSPAMccnet.com)
> 
> 
> >I also think that ultimately everything gets even. But what if karma is
not 
> >linear? You or me might think there's injustice because we seem to always
get
> >the short end of the stick. 
> >
> >Why do some people have an awakening and not others?
> >
> >Love to all.
> >
> Snowbird, 
> 
> The best understanding I ever got about karma came from a book called 2150
> AD, by Thea Alexander. It was a 1976 cult sci-fi all time classic. It
> upleveled my understanding considerably. To me this book is about my
second
> most favorite sci-fi ever, next to my all time favorite, Stranger in a
> Strange Land.
> 
> I can only guess why some people have an awakening and not others. I have
> made up all kinds of hyptheses. None of which can ever be proven, of
course.
> They range from , well maybe I did something in a former lifetime to maybe
> there is a call from the future that is a morphogenetic field grabbing
more
> and more souls because the planet needs to be saved, to total meaningless
> coincidence. Etc. I fancy I am an old soul, personally, but my imagination
> roams alot!
> 
> For me of more importance and more value is how I choose to respond to
what
> comes my way. Am I going to keep the karmic circle going or break the
> chains? (Remember the Vanessa Williams song, with the words, Love breaks
the
> chains?- That always tugs on my heart strings.)
> 
> I am not a saint, far from it. Still, I have used this information about
> returning love out many times in deciding how to proceed and definitely
feel
> the better off for having done so.
> 
> 2150 AD is available through Amazon.com books, by the way, I just
> checked.....in case someone is looking for a cool book to read.
>              
> Best, Patti   :=}
>                
> 
> 
> 

-------- REPLY, End of original message --------


--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com     http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
Nothing ruins a face so fast as double-dealing.  Your face telling
one story to the world.  Your heart yanking your face to pieces,
trying to let the truth be known.
-Jessamyn West


Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 
From: hbarrettATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Subject: re: twilight zone

Felt quite struck, and somewhat chastened, by the remarks about the 
intelligence of kundalini and us being flimsy structures in a torrent.  
But feeble structure I am and so am awfully interested in what is 
happening to my body, especially sexually.  Gopi Krishna writes, 
somewhat obliquely, about what happens to men.  I'd like to hear from 
women.  For me, orgasm is not only exponentially more intense, but is 
now globalized throughout my body and beyond.  There is no longer any 
difference for me between eros and k.

Holly


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 9
From: Raymond <>
Subject: Unidentified subject!

Jule:

>I've been working on far more than the major 7.  I don't know how many
>chakras there actually are, and sitting where I am, post "K" it doesn't seem
>to matter much. 

I completely agree, theorizing is good preparation but what matters is the
experience. When it is time, the individual will discover the secondary centers.

I have been told that the minor centers become active under different
circumstances and may be an aid to the major ones during a full awakening.
This reminds me of Gurdjieffs theory that at certain times in personal
evolution an additional shock is required to reach the next plateau.

The first minor center that I became aware of was around the spleen.
It was noticed that the *spasms* occurred when energy was circulating
or during meditation.  When this occurred I was forced to take very shallow
breaths (classic kundalini symptoms).  The second center found was in
the back of the head. This confused me for a while (I could not find any 
reference to this one).  Then I discovered that Robert Fludd,
WESTERN TRADITION (pre Theosophical Society),  had mentioned this
in in a document from the 17th century.

Raymond


Date: Thu, 25 Jul
From: Raymond
Subject: Unidentified subject!

Wendy:

Thanks for your kind words.  I hope you don't sit on the side lines too long.

Raymond


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 9
From: Raymond <>
Subject: Unidentified subject!

John, the martial artist:

You mention rooting so I assume you studied kung fu instead of karate.  Did you
also do chi/ki work?  How about the tan tien?

Raymond


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Muladhara 

Just wondering?   ":)"  

People really get emotional over this sex thing.  If these people
concentrated as hard on the Ajna charkra as they concentrate on the Muladhara
charkra then they would surely be enlightened.  Mula means ( First, main,
chief) and adhara means ( foundation)   Does that mean anything?   Through
this charkra all of your psychic energy is constantly being discharged by the
subconscious mind.  It should always be under your command. :)

Because you are on this list I just assumed that you knew the reason for
controlling this energy.  I am not offended by sex.  Everything in the
universe does it.  From frogs to people.  Yes it will always be here.  My
problem is first how you present it.   It does not seem very important or
spiritual  when you say things like the sexual energy from a Goddess or  S&M,
Etc.  Does any one see my point?   A few  people are getting turned on I am
very surprised that  some women could not catch it.   It does not bother me
as I am not the sex object or fantasy for these people. :)

Don't you want to learn how to control these forces so you can evolve into a
more spiritual person and not downgrade yourself to a frog.  Everything is
sex and that is true and that is one of the main reasons that most people are
going through all kinds of  suffering in this life cycle.  :)

If you want to have sex 24 hours a day that is up to you.  I am not offended
at all.  My point is that I really don't think you understand the deeper
meaning.  If you want to know,  just ask. I just hate to see a life wasted so
that is why I am speaking out.  Not for me, but for you :)

As always, :)
Von.  


Date: Thu, 25 Jul
From: Karol Ann Barnett
Subject: re: twilight zone

yeah, Holly, i have a similiar experience these days.  the K has
really intensified my drives, i can tell you.  besides that, i 
did experience the wonderment of Nirvana once, as waves of love 
flowed into my head after intercourse.  


Date: Thu, 25 Jul  
From: John Halonen 
Subject: A song


Here is a song I wrote.  Hope you like it.

There is a ladder that you can't climb.
And a door waiting to be opened,
for the house to become one.

The wind has calmed down, it's almost died.
And the river flows into the ocean,
from the sun.

Spiraling down from the sky, landing in the ocean of life,
Circling like the heavens.
Chasing the thoughts away, becoming the day,
Knowing it will take you to heaven.

Sing me a song from your heart.
Burning away the desire.
Sing me a song from the heart.
Rising up Like a spire.

And everything becomes one.
And everything becomes one.
You've gone beyond,
You've gone beyond.
And everything becomes one.

There is a sun inside that shines. And a fire that burns inside, will help
to guide the way.

Emotions flow up like a tide, And the ocean will receive them, as the river
carries them away.

And everything becomes one.
And everything becomes one.
You've gone beyond,
You've gone beyond.
And everything becomes one.



John Halonen


Date: Thu, 25 Jul  
From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: From Jule--Various

Chakras:

Gloria, where did you get your information?  It sounds like it might answer
some of my questions.

Raymond,  yes I've worked on different chakras other than the major seven.
 In particular,the minor ones in my eyes have been very active since "K".
 Also the alta major which is at the base of the skull.  In the last year the
high heart area (thymus) has been very active.  This one has been a major
blessing as it seems to have been responsible for clearing up my many health
problems.

Ive also sensed chakras higher than the crown, and seem to be becoming more
aware of them as time goes on.  I am receiving a lot of strange information
about the nature of the universe, which I would think I'd imagined, except
spirit in it's wisdom, always leads me to something that seems to confirm my
latest stuff. 

I have read much of the theosophical literature, but will look at what they
have again.
Other than the Robert Fludd book did you find anything else useful?

Patti:  I truly believe looking back that my"K" arose because I was working
on the concept of loving everyone to the best of my ability.  Unconditional
love is difficult, but it does have a way of opening one up more than
anything else.

By loving another person just where they are, you can actually help them to
circumvent karma.  We break the cycle just as you said.  There are traditions
that talk about eating another's karma. This is one way we can do it.
 Prevent a new cycle from happening altogether.

It's also come to my attention, that there are people who out of love take on
karma that is not there's, once they are finished their own cycle.  e.g. Some
people born into dysfunctional families, may have chosen that role, in order
to help heal that group of people, so the family cycle of karma stops.

Snowbird:  I often dream that I'm pregnant, before I go through a major new
consciousnessshift.  It represents the birth of a new aspectof the ever
unfolding "I" , as far as I can tell.

Niles:  "K" is sexual because it is of the body.  That is part of it.  It is
one way to gain knowledge of each other.  In tibetan yoga they talk about
moving that energy ultimately into the throat area, and then you can use it
for sex yes, but also for greater creativity.

When you become one with your other half, you eventually go past sex to new
levels.  there is always more to learn.

Did you ever consider that if sex was the only way to experience God, we
would have only one chakra?

God in his wisdom gave us many chakras, so we could experience Him in many
ways.  To me this is one of the wonders of it.  Once you open up those other
chakras, as far as I can tell at the moment, the Other is God, and later you
just are  God.  There is only one of us. Then perhaps we are like one giant
second chakra.  But as I understand it none of us has reached that point, if
we ever do, because we would long since have translated and left this earth.

Love Jule


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:25:
From: ijuster <>
Subject: Muladhara 

>
>
>People really get emotional over this sex thing. 

I think the most emotional people are the ones who are trying to suppress
the conversation about it! The rest of us are pretty happy about it and get
upset when we feel the judgements of the others coming in negatively.


>Because you are on this list I just assumed that you knew the reason for
>controlling this energy. 

As far as I know the reason for being on this list is to talk about whatever
we want, as long as it has to do with our genuine experiences of the k.
Maybe make some friends, find support, exchange ideas, learn more about the
k, learn more about the wide range of viewpoints out there, learn how to
respect and honor all viewpoints.....(that do not impinge on the freedom of
others to think their thoughts, feel their feelings).

>
>Don't you want to learn how to control these forces so you can evolve into a
>more spiritual person and not downgrade yourself to a frog.

This is an assumption on your part.....Something tells me you are not
listening to what is being said, just reacting. Haven't you read enough
times that people are having all sorts of profound experiences that need not
be justifieable to you? What makes you think you alone are "right" and lots
of others are wrong?

I would like to tactfully, lovingly suggest, that rather than condemn those
whose viewpoints you disagree with, that you lovingly acknowledge to
yourself what is so: Your opinion is one particular opinion. Lots of people
share your opinion and lots don't. 

Personally, I think you have a tremendous amount to share with us. Would it
be possible to just do that in an informative way, without the negative
statements about other viewpoints? You know, honey catches more flies that
vinegar... Tell us about your ecstacies, your visions, your insights...if
you can, and without the judgements on others. Again, I think you have a
wealth to share. I guess I'd rather hear about that part. 


Thanks for listening..


Love, Patti
>
>
>


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 
From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Muladhara 

Hi: Patti

Thanks for your reply:

I am very happy to receive negative feed back as this is what helps me along.
Every thing that do in this life I seem to be alone.  From putting this
kundalini in order with no help at all from any one to just working every
day. People always tell me how good I am, but no one will tell me the bad
points. I remember one time I  took a spacial course in human relations, but
even in that course I was only told about my good points and never anything
about the bad ones.  In my job if I don't make the right decisions then I
don't eat.   Even in my spiritual quest I am alone.  I was brought to the
teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda and talked to him in a mediation state. I
always tell him, " sure you have special spiritual knowledge and know
everything in life because you had your own Guru that could answer every
single question you would ask and could help you in every single way along
your path, but what about me?  I have no one in this world that can help me."
  I did receive an answer from him, but that is another story. 

I sure don't know everything, but if no one has the guts to challenged me
then how will I ever know? 

In Hawaii there is a saying from the 442nd, " Go for Broke"  Some times in
life it's time to go for it.  Right or wrong,  just do it!   People ask me,
how do you make a business?  My answer is always the same.  Just do and do it
now.  Do anything as one thing will lead something else. If you always think
and plan then nothing will happen, Ok I made the my point.

I value your comments.

Love,
Von 
---------------------------------------

 You Said: 

>As far as I know the reason for being on this list is to talk about whatever
we want, as long as it has to do with our genuine experiences of the k.
Maybe make some friends, find support, exchange ideas, learn more about the
k, learn more about the wide range of viewpoints out there, learn how to
respect and honor all viewpoints.....(that do not impinge on the freedom of
others to think their thoughts, feel their feelings).<



>Personally, I think you have a tremendous amount to share with us. Would it
be possible to just do that in an informative way, without the negative
statements about other viewpoints? You know, honey catches more flies that
vinegar... Tell us about your ecstacies, your visions, your insights...if
you can, and without the judgements on others. Again, I think you have a
wealth to share. I guess I'd rather hear about that part. 


Date: 25 Jul 9
From: jerry diaz <103672.3017ATNOSPAMCompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: S&M and Kundalini a way to train.

unsubscribe 103672.3017ATNOSPAMcompuserve.com


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Crown chakra

The pregnant dream is connected to rebirth, it is very positive and means
that you are being remade from the inside. Gloria for Snowbird


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 
From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: From Jule--Various

You asked where I get my information, I don't share anything unless I
experience it myself. You can learn some about the higher centers through
Hebrew works it is called the Ain Sof, or Limitless Light. My experience is
that these higher centers connect you directly to working for humanity
through divine will. And, once they are in operation there is much
responsiblity that goes along with this consciousness. Is this what you were
asking about? Gloria


Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 
From: "A Psykick Warrior ov Gaia." <>
Subject: A musical question

Does anyone have the experience of only being able to play music well (for example) when 
one is able to 'think the unthinkable' thought that in fact we don't have to take on the 
image (mirage?) of being a 'genius' or prodigy in a creative field. That in fact one's 
'talent' has far more in common with the universal talent of the global, collective 
mind?

Barney