Date: Thu, 18 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 60
[1] From: Wendy
Subject: Unidentified subject!
Such strong personalities SHINING through....
It's been an interesting month on this list...I've gained a lot but not felt
comfortable enough to share much. Perhaps another time.
I hope people who need information will find it here, as I came to do
originally...and the 'flaming' that Natha first spoke of that he would not
engage in tones down after a bit so that a real exchange of ideas and
information doesn't have to be sifted through. One begins to lose one's
sense of humor...and to me, that is my most valuable commodity after Faith
As a real "newbie" I hesitated to get 'involved' for this reason. And I
don't feel I have enough 'stamina' to keep wading through the emails
right now. My focus shifts elsewhere.
So I thank all of you who have responded to me here on the list either
publicly or privately. And I thank those of you who have at one time or
other provided some solid information, references and insights. From
whatever 'perspectives.'
I'm going to leave off for now and concentrate on other 'areas.'
Thanks, also, to Richard for allowing people to simply be who they are
here...with no 'censoring' or moderating.
Wishing you all the best,
Wendy
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
_________________________
Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
- David Wilcox
_________________________
[2] From: Melissa Ann Fornof
Subject: Re:Global answers; introduction
Thank you, Gloria, you said that beautifully.
Natha, I really enjoy your posts--they are very informative and give a
different frame of reference than the books I already have. I don't know
much about Kundalini and next to nothing about chakras--what I have read
you have denounced. For lack of personal experience, I cannot judge who
is right, as someone else also mentioned. But I do like having different
points of view to look at. But a lot of people have a belief system in
place already. For them, I would say you can put your ideas out there,
"correcting" what you think is wrong, and leave it at that. People will
always disagree with others. No one can force a person to change their
mind. The only thing you can do is put your ideas out there and ask
people to think about them seriously, with an open mind. Pushing issues
will only cause more quibbling and distraction from more pressing issues
of spirituality. Also, I think you yourself should try to keep an open
mind and take your own advice--be open to the possibility that you may be
wrong about some things. I'm not saying you are, its just good to
question your beliefs sometimes, I think, to keep the ego in check and to
make sure you are really pursuing truth rather than just believing in a
belief system. Once a person thinks they have found the Truth and knows
all the asnwers, they have stopped seeking the Truth. I don't believe
ANYONE knows the Truth fully, so to stop seeking it is selling yourself
short. I think this applies to everyone with a belief system--no one
system is all right, and I believe some measure of truth can be found in
systems that are "wrong." So, I say to all who follow a particular path,
doctrine, or belief system--let's keep an open mind towards others'
ideas, knowing we are human and can be mistaken or mislead. For the sake
of Truth, and for the sake of peace on this list.
Now for two questions for Natha: I don't quite understand what you meant
when you spoke of the belief that K is a snake-like energy. Do you
believe it is not? What about those of us who have felt it move through
our bodies in a very snake-like pattern?
Also, where exactly IS the solar plexus? Forgive my ignorance; I haven't
had any biology in almost 8 years. I think I know where it is--right
below the breasts in the middle of the chest--but I am far from sure.
To Christopher:
I have no advice to give, but I have had the exact same experience you
described. Only my body also did a third rotation--a half-circle motion
from side to side. I, too, found meditation difficult to do until this
experience--then suddenly I could go into a meditative state within
seconds. I could also then STAY in that state, even with distractions!!
Love to all, Melissa
[3] From: Jim Cook
Subject: Only a Test
Please excuse this test. Had this been an actual emergency, you would have
been given further instructions.
The Test
[4] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Belief systems
What a pity that some of us find the belief systems of others so threatening.
For me part of the fun is seeing what others believe and trying to fit it
into what I already know. If you haven't I'd really advise it. We all need
to develop our sense of play. this is one of the ways I play.
I have been called both childish, and unbalanced by a line-member all in the
space ot 3 days. What an interesting experience!
Aren't we all a little unbalanced and even childish after a "K" experience?
Love to all
Jule
[5] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Glory
Dear Gloria,
Thanks for a wonderful message; I have also enjoyed many of your posts and
would love to converse (on the list or via direct E-mail) with you. I think
that you have some very sain and heartful opinions; it has just been my
*option* not to "accept the illusion as such" but to rise against it and fight
spiritually (even with the risk of being rebuked). Thanks for the loving care
and I can assure you that I do not get involved or take it personally, nor
could I interpret your message as an insult of some kind. If I have raised my
voice against insults is in no way for being offended (for what is there to
offend, after all?) but for the sake of the principle, and for not losing
precious time by turning this list into a circus of invectives.
Spiritual greetings from,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[6] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Power of intent
Dear Graham,
Thanks for the clarifying message; it seems that we agree again upon most
matters. Indeed, I have also known people who could "feel" a chakra in a wrong
position simply because they were taught so or because they had misunderstood
what they had been told. And of course that up to a certain point this has even
*worked* for them, by a kind of spiritual placebo. During the WWII, some German
doctors on the Stalingrad front have anesthesized an entire field hospital of
wounded people simply by staging a fake landing of an airplane with medicine
from Berlin and then injecting everybody with distilated water... So of course
that *up to a certain point* it does not matter what one believes provided that
one has some kind of belief-system that *works*. But when we come to the point
of attacking the metaphysical peak of the One Truth, and that is precisely what
kundalini is meant for, the relative (or personal) truths are no longer valid.
Else the Absolute would no longer be absolute, and one could not say that *God
is One*. That is why there is a Tradition, and that is why the great Masters
have taken the trouble to present the Truth and to back it up with *miracles*
which could prove that they had a point. Because even if "keeping and open
mind", when somebody rises a dead man from the grave after 4 days or cures a
leper with a kiss, it is common sense that what he/she says about other matters
is *most probably* true, since this person has already reached the Divine.
With blessing,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[7] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Qabala
Dear Michael,
Even if the confusion with the solar plexus comes from some Qabalistic
misinterpretation, it still cannot be called "Western tradition", since the
first representations of the Tree-of-Life and of the equivalences between the
sephirot-s and the chakra-s date from the beginning of our century, after the
publishing of the Theosophic books concerning chakra-s and kundalini; these
equivalences have been first made by a Colonel I-don't-know-whom and by the
notorious Aleister Crowley (the black magician). And they also are different
from each other... So that is hardly a "tradition".
Spiritually yours,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[8] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Thanks for the joke
Dear Snowbird,
Thank you for the great New Age joke; it seems we often share opinnions, and I
hope we can cooperate fruitfully further also.
You ask about the method of distinguishing between genuine visions and
hallucinations: the Christian Desert Fathers, being confronted so often with
the phenomenon, have developed and entire science concerning visions and
holiness -- it is called hagiology or the hagiographic method, and there are
some good works upon it. The essence of this science is that "The tree is known
by its fruits", as Jesus puts it, while their methods range from swearing the
visions in the name of the wholy Trinity (Father, Son, and Holly Spirit) until
looking *at the feet* of the apparitions, which allegedly betray who stays
behind that vision.
That not all visions are sane, is a matter of common knowledge. Examples? A
couple of years ago, a lady self-called Solara, channeled a whole
phantasmagoric theory about the mystique of the number 11:11 and eventually has
summoned all the planetary spiritual workers in Egypt around the Great Pyramid
of Keops, where precisely at the 1st of November 199? (chosen because of the
presence of 11:11 in it) there was going to occur the great spiritual vortex
that will take the Earth into the next age, the angels will show up, there will
be a new heaven, and their presence there was needed to "turn the cosmic key
into the lock" (it's no exaggeration!), etc. etc. Believe it or not, but a
couple of thousands of people actually *bought* this story and the result
(*briefly*) was that the Egyptian police and Red Cross (or Red Crescent
perhaps:-) had to run through the desert for days for saving *hundreds* of
people who got lost and severely sunburnt... and there was no keyhole in sight!
An American (now) rich and notorious channel, Ms. E. C. Prophet has announced
all her followers in 1989 that there was going to be a total nuclear war, so
the poor people actually did build themselves underground shelters and stored
food for the Doomsday. When things didn't go the Prophet way, she still had the
guts to come forth with the statement that *because she has pleaded with
Shambhala on behalf of her devotees* the world has been temporarily spared of
the hammer. Of course (common sense left aside) that we cannot argue if the
lady was indeed in contact with Shambhala and if she had the *power* to
influence its decisions. The funny thing is that at the same time there was an
other Australian lady, self-called Ananda Tara Shan (or Shantara) who was also
having a direct telephone line with Shambhala (and a lot of devotees who were
largely cotributing to her bank accounts, "ashram-s" in various countries
(including DK), etc.) -- only that this lady was saying totally different (and
contradictory) things than the other (and a hundred others not mentioned here).
They probably had direct lines to different departments from Shambhala... :-)
As about who has a more direct line to God, this is precisely what the whole
spiritual practice is about: how to get a direct line (read: vision), or
eventually how to *become* one with God. And of course that there are reasons
to presume that a St. Theresa of Avila or a Hyapathia from Alexandria had a
much more direct line to the Divine than Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin...
With blessing,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[9] From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: To Jule and the others
Dear Jule,
Your post was so perfect! I greatly enjoyed what you had to say and I
believe that you hit the nail on the head, so to speak. When you referred to
NDE's and said that love and knowledge are all that matter- not the tradition
or discipline you followed- I just had to smile. You phrased it so
poetically and correctly IMHO, I agree 100%.
I also agree with your thoughts on our higer selves being our best guides.
Trust it!
Thank you for such a positive and up lifting post. I can't help but smile
when it becomes so clear to hear another person express the same things that
I thik and feel. Love can work wonders! :D
Stay Positive through it all!
In Light and Love,
Lori
[10] From: LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Debee and Hawaii
Debee-
I have a somewhat unusual question, but you said the K site in Hawaii...
My question is are you in HI, and if so, which Island? I am asking because I
know a great deal of people on Kauai who I believe could be very helpful to
you. If you are intereseted you can e-mail me directly, if you choice, at
LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com Just hope I might be able to help. Let me know. Thanks.
In Light and Love,
Lori
[11] From: jmckinnonATNOSPAMcc.weber.edu
Subject: Re: A [different]Vision of Evolution
I'm Daoist ( Tao ), I'm here mainly out of curiosity, and I find your
ideas very agreable.
later,
John
On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Iver Juster wrote:
> There seems to be a lot of consensus that the k is an evolutionary force.
>
> Many people feel that the evolutionary process is an upward one.
>
> I played "what if" and had this vision:
>
> The birthplace of Tantra is the valley between Inida and Tibet (Nepal,
> Bhutan?) etc.
> From there of course Tantra went west to become a yoga. And east to become
> the source of Tantric Buddism. (I have read this much in a book on the
> origins of Buddist Tantra.)
>
> The energy of the k was once a simple, creative energy. With the development
> of these religions over time, the interpretation of the k became more and
> more complex, fragmented amongst various cultures.
>
> This parallels what happened to civilization that got more and more into the
> definitions, the labels, the names, the territories, the power trips, etc. K
> itself became more and more removed from something an ordinary person could
> experience. It was placed into the hands of priests, monks, and so on.
> Common folk were told that they were unclean, unpure, etc.
> ....
>
> Now: evolution happens as male and female join together, to create and
> co-create ever more adaptable and valuable energies (life among them)
>
> Maybe for true evoltution to happen, there needs to be balance. The female
> (the undifferentiated whole) must match (catch up to) the evolution that the
> male side (the fragmented many) has undergone.
>
> If this is true, then the evolutionary force is not about going higher and
> higher, but about achieving the balance between the one and the many. And
> given the overwhelming emphasis we (certainly this list is included) have
> had on the "going higher" part, maybe true evolution will occur as we can
> "surrender into" the vast ocean of pure undifferentiated energy, not the
> other way around.
>
> A boundaries dissolve, the god and goddess in all of us is revealed. The
> love pours forth, the wars will end. There is nothing to do, but to
> surrender into the divine oneness. For our planet, this may represent a far
> greater evolutionary leap than continued bickering over whose way is more
> "right."
>
>
> ...just an idea
>
> Best,
>
> Patti
>
>
>
[12] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Angels
Hi: Gloria
You are the expert on Angels so I have a question for you. "Do angels have
wings?" People on this mailing list have not humor so cross that out. When
I am telling a joke I guess I have to say "( grin )", ( smile )" after every
word. Life is so boring if people can not take a joke some times.
What do angels look like? Do you believe in the Archangels like: Michael,
Raphael, Ureil and Gabriel. Are Angels just a symbolic representation of
certain nature spirits like in Hawaii we have Madam Pale. Excuse the
spelling. Would you think that there are angels corresponding to each
charkra. Like the seven seals and seven churches in the book of revelation,
Etc..
Just wondering.
Love,
Von
[13] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Glory
Natha,
Thank you we connected. You are bringing in a much needed perspective, please
stay with the conversation so that we can see what spirit is doing with all
of this. We really live in an incredible moment if the illusion of time, many
forces are coming together that haven't met before. I think the work at this
level is to bring harmony into places where the opposities would never have a
chance to bridge the gap. I love walking that razor edge, while there are
moments when it appears even the razor is gone, when spirit is creating the
cause, the effect is a miracle. Gloria
[14] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Qabala
Natha,
I think it is interesting that we are referring to the solar plexus instead
of the navel. Actually I think spirit guides the place ment inside, and it is
only words which are not in line with the conversation. I have never stopped
to decide in the body where it is as such. Good point. Gloria
[15] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Thanks for the joke
This is a point well taken. People get off into the invisible world and
accept whatever they see as reality. The fact is when you are in the invible
world the illusion are manifest instantly according to thought while in the
astral. It is only getting into spiritual dimensions that the manifestation
of spirit is as it appears. The problem is that the astral vision is what is
normally experienced, and if one doesn't see through an imatator while out of
the body, he or she won't while in the body either. I have had hundreds of
experiences where the spirit that had come to me was an elemental, once you
confront them they flip and flip again and again. This is the experience
everyone needs then you don't take information from these sources. It is my
experience that a Christ doesn't come with a name. A Christ is a Christ and
you know the frequency. Gloria
[16] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re. : Answers
HI, Love that joke, in my case it is true sometimes the brain appears dead.
Thanks for the joke. Gloria
[17] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Thanks for the joke
I still think that we all have God in us, the choice is ours to connect with
Him/Her or not. Hitler was a master of the occult and he used what he knew. I
don't know about Staline and the occult, but the man had a serious
personality disorder. Some people work at being good, others will seriously
work at being evil (any Hells Angels in your neighborhood?). Ste-Therese of
Avila was certainly working more to unite with God than the contrary, but she
had to work at it with prayers and abandon to God.
As for all those channellers, I believe they're really in contact with
spirits, but the kind Gloria mentioned. They just use this way to stay near
the earth plane. One book I liked about this is Joe Fisher's "Hungry Ghosts"
wich depicts experiences in chanelling where the channellers started speaking
greek and so forth, very impressive, but when came a spirit that died in a
closer era that could be verified, they came upon half truths and some
outright lies. The author concluded to stay away from chanelling. And I agree
with him. I don't think Jesus will come back through a channeller. What would
be the point? There is a proverb in french "A beau mentir qui vient de loin"
meaning roughly that someone coming from afar can lie very easily and nobody
will be the wiser. People choose to get taken or not. I had an experience
with a channeller and I could litteraly see this spirit, but it made me feel
uncommonly uncomfortable.
Gloria and others told about the vibrations emanating differently according
to what kind of spirit they are. You told about the feet. Can you expand on
this? Or did you mean something else I didn't catch?
Love to all.
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[18] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: For Royale
Thank you for the positive message; I am happy if some of the explanations
provided could help you identify the problem better from a theoretical
standpoint. I can assure you that I am convinced that all the members of the
list are good hearted and well meaning, and actually out brothers and sisters
in the vast drama of human evolution. The meaning was just to stop deviating
our useful and interesting studies here, towards time-wasting personal
conflicts.
With blessings,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda <>
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[19] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Unidentified subject!
I've been aware for some time now of an author named Deepak Chopra. He's
everywhere around us, the papers, the bookstore, etc...
Has anyone on this list read his books? If so, what's your evaluation of it?
Thank you and love to all.
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[20] From: "Debee L. Thomas"
Subject: Re: Debee and Hawaii
> I have a somewhat unusual question, but you said the K site in Hawaii...
> My question is are you in HI, and if so, which Island? I am asking because I
> know a great deal of people on Kauai who I believe could be very helpful to
> you. If you are intereseted you can e-mail me directly, if you choice, at
> LwMema3ATNOSPAMaol.com Just hope I might be able to help. Let me know. Thanks.
> In Light and Love,
> Lori
>
Thank you so very much for your message Lori. However, I live in Norther
Illinois. I'm just going to be hosting this site for the Resource Center
in Hawaii. I really appreciate your offer of help and if they would be
interested in helping in any way, they are most welcome to do so. Just
have them contact me via email.
Blessed Be
Debee
[21] From: The Psy-kick Worrier ov Gaia <>
Subject: Don't forget . . .
> The only spiritual/mystic tradition of the West was that of the various
> Christian denominations, mixed with some Gnostic/Alchemic underground
> currents and with some Jewish mysticism.
What about Mayans (see Jos Arguells interpretation for example), Celts,
and Pagans?