Date: Thu, 18 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 59
[1] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Way too much talking and thinking...
Daryl Barnett wrote:
> Read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. Read the Yoga Vasishta. Read and
> know the Bhagavad Gita.
It has been mentioned on the list a few times that there is worthwhile
teachings to be had from the traditional Indian texts. Not everyone may
be aware that many of these texts have been made available via the web.
Here is a list of sites which have the Bhagavad Gita. I had the names
of a few other sites which hold various other texts as well, but cannot
find them at present.
http://www.digi-net.com/Sunil/Indian/geeta.html
http://www.prabhupada.com/~btg/gita/welcome.html
http://www.tezcat.com:80/~bnaik/gita/guide.html
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Phd/Rakesh.Mullick/gita/gita.html
Some of these are just the original text, some have commentaries as well.
To fully appreciate the message within the Bhagavad Gita can entail a
great deal of dedication and time to studying the original text as well
as the commentaries. If you are like me, it could well be a bit much
dedication and time given the nature of our lives. If this is the case,
I would instead suggest that you might read the "Sai Baba Gita" by Al
Drucker. The book is a distilling of wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita given
through a series of teachings by Sai Baba. The complete book, as well
as being in print, is available online.
http://www.atmapress.com
I will quote a small section from the book. I didn't go looking for this
section, I thought instead I would just open the book and use the first
thing that my eyes fell on. I actually remember this section from the book
when I read it, as it had some pertinence to my own situation at the time.
There are four types of people. The anger of a person who is of a
serene nature will be very short-lived; it recedes immediately. The
Gita has declared such a one as a great soul. The second type will
have this anger for a number of minutes, but it will soon fade away.
The third category of person will have this anger continuously, all
day long. The one in the lowest category will have this anger throughout
his life.
The divine teacher has told this in another way also, "The anger of
a good person is like writing on water; it is not at all permanent.
The anger of the second category of person is like writing on sand,
it will be washed away, one moment or another, The third type of
person's anger is something like writing on stone. Over a long period
of time it too will be eroded away. But the anger of the fourth type
of person is like writing on a steel plate. Only when you put it into
the fire will it get destroyed. Only through intense transformation
is there any possibility of changing it."
If anyone else can give web pointer to other texts, please post them.
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[2] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Touchy subjects & an Introduction
Thank you. These days, I felt very removed from everything going on around
me. That worries me sometimes, since in psychiatry it's a sign of
dissociation and it's not seen well within the medical community. But I feel
I need some quiet time. I live in a place where there are some very angry,
anxious, xenophobic people. However, I learned to love the God that lives
within every individual. So I'm living this sensation of dissociation very
positively.
I'm not anxious anymore. I think I've reached this point of really letting
go. Then again I might wake up tomorrow and feel the fears rising up again. A
la grace de Dieu.
Love to all.
>Snowbird,
>HI, your mediations will help you relieve fears, thoughts, and anxiety
> about
>what ever is happening in your life. If you can meditate and become the
>observer, you can carry that knowledge forward with you. Then you can
> become
>the observer in all of your experience. When you get back far enough, one
> day
>the illusion will break, you will find that inner truth, peace, and love
> that
>will carry you for eternity. Everytime you open up to it, it is there.
> Gloria
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[3] From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: Re: Basics for Michael
Dear Natha,
I'm glad to findout that the kundalini is not
some huge force hidden somehow in my tailbone,but
instead a trigger of it!
I will continue with hatha, kriya and karma yoga.
I understand these to be safer forms of yoga.Besides
how can I practice something I know nothing about?
Thank you for your reply,
Michael
[4] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Global answer(s)
This is addressed to all those who have sent preposterous answers:
It seems less and less that this is a discussion list and it certainly seemes
that some of the people tend to take rather personally our talks about
kundalini and related topics. I have been already covered by several more or
less direct insults (see the last two digest volumes) and I wish to remind
everyone that this is against the protocol of this list and that we are
supposed to discuss like civilised persons over a professional matter. Further
insults will therefore be raported to the list-owner for possible elimination
of the persons who disturb the work of the list.
I do not know why if I say that *there is no solar plexus chakra* and if I say
that those who "feel" it there are victims of their own placebo (or
self-suggestion), anybody should feel offended. Everybody on this list probably
knows and accepts that there *can* be visons that are false or even demonic in
nature, so why not keep the necessary humblenes when confronted with the
Tradition (which is built by spiritual giants) and admit that *maybe* one has
been victim of a delusion? Isn't *that* arrogance?
The great Origenes, one of the Fathers of the Christianity and one of the
greatest promoters of reincarnation and Gnostic values, who has been
excommunicated by the later Church for his views, has had the "vision" of Jesus
who "explained" to him that the meaning of a certain paragraph from the Gospels
was to be taken literally -- so Origenes, who was a great believer but
apparently had little common sense, has *castrated* himself in the name of the
vision that he had, just to be closer to God! If such a great spirit could be
deluded, why not keep the necessary humbleness and admit that *anybody* could
be deluded... That is what the Tradition is made for: confronting our limitted
egoes with the eternal Truth.
Some people try to escape this by stating that they follow a "Western
tradition" concerning kundalini!? Which tradition please??? There is no text
written in the West about kundalini or chakra-s before the turn of the century,
when the Theosophic Society has first brought this information in the West. So
about which "tradition" are we talking??? The only spiritual/mystic tradition
of the West was that of the various Christian denominations, mixed with some
Gnostic/Alchemic underground currents and with some Jewish mysticism. Where do
you find in all these any reference to the famous solar plexus? I hope that you
will not have the nerve to call a few books written in the last 80 years by a
handful of epigones -- and all starting from a blatant error of translation --
a "Western Tradition"?! The Yogic and Tantric tradition, both over 5,000 years
old and confirmed by practice, on the contrary abound into references to the
navel chakra as the Sun plexus. Since both the concepts of chakra and kundalini
are coming directly from these traditions (the words themselves being Sanskrit!)
it seemes only common sense to search for their meaning into them and not into
some 20th century amators who could not even translate properly...
Even modern science (consult the electromagnetic measurements of the Japanese
scientist Motoyama -- he has written several famous volumes upon his research
in parapsychology) has *confirmed* the existence of the chakra-s, and guess
what: the third chakra is in the navel, and there is *no* chakra in the solar
plexus! If some people cannot believe neither Tradition, nor spiritual
authority, nor even modern science, then they must have a *grave* problem
concerning the common sense and a great arrogance that hinders them from
accepting that *maybe* they were wrong.
Of course that anybody is *allowed to fancy* about a snake-like energy, that is
common both to mental patients and saints, and that irradiates through the
solar plexus, etc., but then we are not talking about *the* kundalini and
chakra-s of the Tradition but about some J.R.R. Tolkien fiction upon kundalini,
where one may also add freely elves and goblins, and whatever else the
imagination requires. If one wishes to believe in that and if it helpes him/her,
they are very welcome to do so, but there is no use in mixing that with a list
of *study* of kundalini.
A very language-aggressive Dorothy Bates accuses me that, probably because
being recently come from Africa, I am not aware of the work of various
kundalini organizations from the West. I may inform the lady that there are
such organisations in Danmark also, and all over Europe, and that they did not
manage to *cure* one single shizophrenic with mystic symptoms (in case you have
not read books on psychiatry, know that there exists *precisely* such a
category of schzophrenia). All they managed to do was to change the appelation
of some people from "mental patients" or "madmen" to "kundalini victims", which
is maybe politically correct (and oily, yes) but does not help the poor people.
The lady then continues her crusade for the insane by asking if I want those
poor people "rather submitted to elecro-shocks"? I remind her that I have
written "traditional medicine" and not "modern (or conventional) medicine", and
that there has never been such a cure as electric shocks in traditional
medicine, so the question is merely wicked. On the other hand, I advise her
(and all those with problems -- epilepsy, manio-depressives, paranoia,
borderline -- many of the symptoms mentioned in the last two digest volumes
belong right there) to read the bulletin issued by Kaivalyadhama - the Yogic
research hospital from Lonavla, India, sponsored by the Indian government and
staffed by professional doctors and researchers, and which reports an *amazing*
percentage of scientifically validated 50% of the cases of shizophrenia
*healed* by yoga practice (85% for cancer, 100% for many other diseases)! It is
actually *the only place in the world* where shizophrenia is healed with
official medical confirmation!
To conclude this long answer (which I would have prefered to be spared of) I
will give a couple of answers to Jule, who presumes first that if she is a
right-brained (read: unbalanced) person, I must necessarily be a left-brained
one. Guess what Jule: I have been tested specifically during a special yoga
research on brain-tracer by the head-doctor from the Rigshospitalet (Royal
Hospital) from Copenhagen, and he was amazed to notice that in spite of what
medical science says, my brain hemispheres were perfectly balanced and I could
alter my brain-waves at will to produce whichever kind of oscilattion --
including their complete ceasing. This is not a boast -- just an answer to some
of your funny statements. And when you say that to enter the kingdom of heaven
you most become a child, the statement refers at the *soul* of a child, not the
*mind* of a child -- says St. Theresa of Avila...
I hope that there will be no more need for messages of this kind and that we
can proceed *seriously* with our work of studying kundalini -- without
ego-trips. For peace-making I have even a suggestion: if there are two groupes
of people -- some who want to understand the traditional kundalini and some who
want to have their own Tolkien-kundalini, why not make *two* discussion lists,
so that they do not have to meet with each other and argue upon elementary
things?
Spiritually yours,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[5] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Fwd: Re. : Answers
>I feel I have to put a little word in between. I just finished B.S. Goel's
>book on his own experience with the rising of K and the opening of his 3rd
>eye. He had an experience very similar to our own, however more
> traditional
>is his way of explaining the steps. But he had the same difficulties Gopi
>Krishna had if I'm to believe what you said about his reputation within
> the
>traditional community in India. Since he wouldn't participate directly, he
>suffered discrimination from the other followers of his guru.
>
>Just to warn anyone against judging others by your own yardstick.
>
>The New Age Movement has at least the merit of opening the minds of tons
> of
>people who otherwise would be going on their way, not thinking much of
>anything else but money and career.
>
>Love to all.
>
>
>
[6] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Debee
Ok. If I'm to make a parallel here, what about people who see the Virgin
Mary? Is it to say that if they were fans of Elvis, they would have
visualized the King? The Catholic Church has recognized some of them as
genuine. What about a person like me, who never asked for this and didn't
conciously prepare for it? I say conciously because some time back I just
happened to put some order in my physical life: I quit smoking and started
exercising with a lot of discipline and my love life got better (I got
married). But religion was definitely not in my everyday life, not even on
Sundays.
I still think that nobody has a more direct line through God than anyone
else. It's only a matter of paying attention and getting acquainted with our
own line. The K has certainly made me pay attention, more like a slap in the
face though. I still wouldn't recommend a voluntary effort to risen the
force.
Love to all.
>Debee L. Thomas wrote:
>>=20
>> Natha,
>> My name is Debee and I've been asked to host a web page for the
>> Kundalini Resource Center based in Hawaii. It will deal with meditation
>> and creative visualization. They have asked me to find meditations and
>> such which will assist with the rising K or pave the way. Things such as
>> clearing chakras, releasing anger, and other negative emotions. I am
>> looking for people who would like to contribute some which they use and
>> which they find are helpful to themselves. I believe they could be
>> helpful to others too. If you know of any and would be willing to share
>> them with others, would you be willing to send me some? It would be
>> greatly appreciated. I don't know if you saw the post I put up about it
>> or not, and if you did, please forgive me for sending you this now. If
>> you are interested in helping out, please let me know.
>>
>> Blessed Be
>>
>> Debee------------------------------------------------------
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[7] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: A [different]Vision of Evolution
So there was a fragmentation within. Just like the Reform in the West, when
the Protestant movement got its start. Is it to say that Anglicans are less
right than Catholics, or even Orthodox Christians?
Do we see a pattern here? Someone got out of his way to really understand the
message of Jesus. Was he right or wrong? Who among us the livings can judge?
To be sure we're on the right way, sometimes we have to hit a wall to make us
change course.
Love to all.
>There seems to be a lot of consensus that the k is an evolutionary force.
>
>Many people feel that the evolutionary process is an upward one.
>
>I played "what if" and had this vision:
>
>The birthplace of Tantra is the valley between Inida and Tibet (Nepal,
>Bhutan?) etc.
>>From there of course Tantra went west to become a yoga. And east to become
>the source of Tantric Buddism. (I have read this much in a book on the
>origins of Buddist Tantra.)
>
>The energy of the k was once a simple, creative energy. With the
> development
>of these religions over time, the interpretation of the k became more and
>more complex, fragmented amongst various cultures.
>
>This parallels what happened to civilization ggot more and more into
> the
>definitions, the labels, the names, the territories, the power trips, etc.
> K
>itself became more and more removed from something an ordinary person could
>experience. It was placed into the hands of priests, monks, and so on.
>Common folk were told that they were unclean, unpure, etc.
>....
>
>Now: evolution happens as male and female join together, to create and
>co-create ever more adaptable and valuable energies (life among them)
>
>Maybe for true evoltution to happen, there needs to be balance. The female
>(the undifferentiated whole) must match (catch up to) the evolution that
> the
>male side (the fragmented many) has undergone.
>
>If this is true, then the evolutionary force is not about going higher and
>higher, but about achieving the balance between the one and the many. And
>given the overwhelming emphasis we (certainly this list is included) have
>had on the "going higher" part, maybe true evolution will occur as we can
>"surrender into" the vast ocean of pure undifferentiated energy, not the
>other way around.
>
>A boundaries dissolve, the god and goddess in all of us is revealed. The
>love pours forth, the wars will end. There is nothing to do, but to
>surrender into the divine oneness. For our planet, this may represent a far
>greater evolutionary leap than continued bickering over whose way is more
>"right."
>
>
>...just an idea
>
>Best,
>
>Patti
>
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[8] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Way too much talking and thinking...
I just bought the edition of Bhagavad-Gita by Oxford editions, isbn
0-19-501666-1, with commentary based on the original sources by R.C. Zaehner.
I'll study it but if someone has another edition, or knowledgeable comments
to make on this edition, please do so in a post.
>If anyone else can give web pointer to other texts, please post them.
>
>--
>Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[9] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Global answer(s)
Natha Bhaktyananda wrote:
>
> I do not know why if I say that *there is no solar plexus chakra* and
> if I say that those who "feel" it there are victims of their own placebo
> (or self-suggestion), anybody should feel offended.
I would emphasise the point that the reason that one might feel that
that chakra is located in that position is because of your intent. The
intent that it is in that position is due to the particular teaching
you have received. With enough intent, I could make evaluation of that
chakra by holding my hand over someones backside. It is my understanding
that chakras do not have direction. The energy they radiate goes in all
directions. Thus, if sensing the energy of a chakra, your hand does not
have to be actually held directly opposite to it.
Whether a chakra is located in one position or another, I am not qualified
to say. I am aware of the different models for placement and properties
of chakras but not have the personal experience through observation to be
able to say what is correct. Until I have some personal experience where
I am able to look inwardly and look for myself, I keep an open mind.
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[10] From: HB28277ATNOSPAMsprynet.com
Subject: Re: Global answer(s)
I believe the confusion about the Solar Plexus
being a chakra, comes from the Qabalaistic teachings and
those people who have compared them.
Holding a chart of the kundalini and the Qabala,side
by side (although I read neither Sanskirt or Hebrew)
I can see where someone could make the mistake of
saying the to are the same.
Michael
[11] From: Karol Ann Barnett
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re. : Answers
> >
> >The New Age Movement has at least the merit of opening the minds of tons
> > of
> >people who otherwise would be going on their way, not thinking much of
> >anything else but money and career.
> >
Since I am a New Ager, I can share a joke that I heard today; one who
has an open mind must be careful that the brains don't fall out.
*8-)
[12] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Global answer(s)
Natha,
Interesting conversation, but I think you are also getting involved here and
taking things personally. I have also ran through this state of
misunderstanding a couple of times since the list started, but the way to
promote peace and well being is not to react, but accept the illusion as such
and let it slide by. One reaction on top of another only creates a third.
This is also not what the list is for, on the other hand it may be exactly
what it is for because this is real life isn't it? If we can create the
climate for transformation then we must cross the barriers as they come up.
It doesn't matter if we are talking about kundalini, east/west. What we need
here is the spiritual wisdom to lift and move with the forces until the
spiritual dance is finished. This is my experience.
You came on strong with a few thoughts that were taken very personally even
if what you said is true for those who can see it clearly. The people on
this list are stepping out on faith a lot to share, and many of them are very
sensitive. Right and wrong only create division, can we recognize that
nothing is ever completely one way or the other but with spirit the illusion
will become self evident in its proper time.
I've especially enjoyed your posts Natha, and would love to converse. Hope
you can find it in your heart to soften up just a bit. With Love, I hope you
don't take this as another insult because it isn't meant to be at all. Gloria
http://www.inetworld.com/lodpress
[13] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Touchy subjects & an Introduction
Snowbird,
the fact that you can speak of what your going through and share it with
insight is the sign that you are letting go even though it is hard. The
spiritual journey has hazards and obstacles all along the path, the closer
you come to the light the more the mines are hidden. Just learn not to take
it personally, and perhaps you could even turn that around a bit and respond
with the opposite, gratitude of the dark days, don't you learn the most
valueable things when the storms are raging? Gloria