Date: Wed, 17 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest	Volume 96 : Issue 58 
[1] From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers)
Subject: Re: Debee

Dear Natha,

Michelle here.  I am wondering if you are skeptical to the power of
healers??  Or are healers only believable to you if they are specially, and
purposefully trained in the doctrine you follow?

Do you believe in spontanious awakening?  Not complete awakening, in a
moment, - but a slow awakening of the spirit without anyone holding their
hands - telling them which way to go, only their spirit as the perfect
guru?  I believe that this type of thing is happening en-masse throughout
the world, and that it will be revealed within about a year or so, that
there is a huge contingency of very psychic people.  We will be the new
generation to break all the "rules", and come to have this tremendous life
energy living within us, and us capuring it, and being comfortable with it,
and not trying to fight with it anymore.  All will follow with time, and we
will all have to learn to cope with this energy and accept that something
this huge loves us completely.

It is a learning process.  If I shut down this energy when I was feeling
insane, and going mad, then I wouldn't have achieved the comfort with it
that I have now.  This energy needs time to adjust to us, and figure a way
to communicate with us, Our listening skills must go WAY beyond just
hearing within our ears.  We will communicate through our hearts, inner
eyes, with feelings and touch, with heat, inner sight and hearing. I do
ramble on...

I've said enough,

In light,

Michelle


>Debee L. Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Natha,
>>         My name is Debee and I've been asked to host a web page for the
>> Kundalini Resource Center based in Hawaii.  It will deal with meditation
>> and creative visualization.  They have asked me to find meditations and
>> such which will assist with the rising K or pave the way.  Things such as
>> clearing chakras, releasing anger, and other negative emotions.  I am
>> looking for people who would like to contribute some which they use and
>> which they find are helpful to themselves.  I believe they could be
>> helpful to others too.  If you know of any and would be willing to share
>> them with others, would you be willing to send me some?  It would be
>> greatly appreciated.  I don't know if you saw the post I put up about it
>> or not, and if you did, please forgive me for sending you this now.  If
>> you are interested in helping out, please let me know.
>>
>> Blessed Be
>>
>> Debee------------------------------------------------------
>


[2] From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: To George-the-alien

Thanks George, that was a very, very ispired message about kundalini. I think
it must have taken you long to write it -- almost as long as it took to read it
presumably. It is good to see the Internet space used efficiently... With this
deep philosophical stuff you can found a new religion (especially if you live
in CA); you will soon find some people witnessing for some channelized messages
from your aliens. It's all light... Please don't forget to read also today's
message from the list concerning "kundalini and mental ilness", there might be
some useful correlations there.
	Bless you, 

-- 
Natha Bhaktyananda 
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668

 
[3] From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: To Graham

Thank you for your kind message of clarification -- it seems we agree on a lot of 
subjects. I would also like to add a few words to your messages from today.

-------------------
Graham wrote:

Utlimately though, any spiritual teachings are simply there to
help you along the way. Eventually you will reach a point where you
will simply know God and your actions will be the actions of God. All
scriptures at this point become meaningless as they are no longer
required.
-------------------

"Eventually" of course means when you become Buddha yourself, or the creator of
a new world-religion or of a new (and genuine) spiritual path. Until then...
-------------------

Graham (also) wrote:

You have an understanding which many people do not accept easily. That is,
that there are many paths to God. Too often people will push a particular
doctrine because they believe it is the only correct path.
-------------------

That is so very true. It is painful to see how much conflict still exists today
because of this dogmatic narrow-mindedness. At the same time one must not
forget that among the so many paths there are also a lot of dead-ends and false
paths. Not every amator that thinks that he/she founds a new religion can be
put on the same level of authority with Jesus or Shankara. So there is also
need for discrimination between the authorised paths and the phoney ones.

-------------------

And Graham wrote more:

One area where it is important to exercise discrimination and
judgement is when we hear gossip. There were recently comments made
about the sexual activities of certain Gurus.
--------------------

It is of course disappointing to hear that guru-s who were supposed to be
celibate and who did show this face to the world, did all kind of hanky-panky
of sexual nature in secret. On the other hand, we should not forget that there
are *Tantric* guru-s (in the true meaning of that name, and not the
watered-down version) who teach their lore, and that they are *expected* to do
*precisely* that, since it is a part of their teaching. But then the people who
join the party know in advance what is all about, and they can make their own
desicions as grown-ups.

With the hope of continuing our good spiritual cooperation in the future also,
I remain spiritually yours,

-- 
Natha Bhaktyananda 
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668

[4] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Answers

Hi: Dororthy and every one.

May I step in and by the way I am not always right. I am also looking for
answers.

Dorothy was saying.....

>I have done psychic work for
>a long time and spent 3 years in a Western spiritual path and what I keep
>feeling while reading your messages is a powerful arrogance, an overbearing
>ego, a mania for imparting information.
--------------------------
This ego and arrogance that manifests itself so easily as a person progresses
on the path is indeed dangerous. If you ever buy a spiritual magazine such as
on yoga for example.  You will see full page ads for special training from a
true great master and the a full size self portrait or picture of someone.
 The picture is usually made up with eye shadow, lipstick ( even if it is a
man) hair perfectly arranged, Etc.  This means that there is a strong ego
involved and be very cautious.  Most of the time you have to seek out a great
teacher as they won't come to you.  Also many organizations that have special
knowledge won't come to you.  When you are ready you will find them and then
you can not talk. Why do the Hatha Yoga masters that have already written
many books and know everything look so out of shape.  I  practice Hatha Yoga
also and I can tell you that the ego will come out full force once you think
you have reached a certain level.  It will completely destroy meditation if
not controlled.  I always see a tightrope in my mind.  At a certain lever I
sometimes think that it should be given up and replaced with meditation
because the lesson has been learned.  Any thing more will only bring out the
ego and that is why Hatha Yoga masters that have already written many books
and know every thing look out of shape.  It's because Hatha is just a
stepping stone to meditation and also makes the body strong enough to hold
the kundalini energy. This is my own thinking so no offence to any one. So
you should never just fall in love only with the teacher or church, but try
to see what is being said.  They are like a finger pointing the way, but they
are not the way it self.  Look beyond their ego and power.

There is a lot of conversation about mental illness associated with spiritual
awakening and kundalini. Sometimes  it's hard to tell the difference from a
crazy person to an enlightened person.  ( Yes I know what you are thinking
now.)   You may see a street person that is always smiling and seems very
happy, but is crazy or you may see a real master truly enlightened and does
not care about money.  They may dress like a bum with long hear, Etc.  Can
you tell the difference?
I called on the mental hospital in my job.  There are many patients that are
much smarter than the nurses and doctors. Many patients tie bed sheets
together to make a rope and then climb out the top story windows.  They  hot
wire the City and County trucks and joy ride all over town.  When they get
tired they drive back to the hospital and on the way they back stop by the
liquor store and buy a bottle of wine.  The hospital staff never even knows
about it.  In one of my visits I found that the nurses had taken the patients
out of their wheelchairs and lined them up next to the wall.  The nurses were
racing back and forth down the hall in the patients wheelchairs.  What makes
it even harder to tell the patients from the hospital staff is when the staff
sets up a smart patient as a group leader and the patient is actually in
charge.  The nurses just leave.  You may never read about these things in the
newspapers.  It is interesting anyway.  I found many patients that come up to
me and say I am you 
X-Ray technician or physical therapist and they can talk for a very long time
and use all the right words.  I some times am not sure for awhile if they are
really the technicians or not.  Right is the middle of their conversation
they may say something like" I bleed like Jesus Christ, you know"  Then I
think it must be a patient.  But think about this. Does not a Zen master for
example always talk in terms like that for meditation themes.  

Again, no offence to any one.

Love,
Von

[5] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Debee

Natha,
I agree with what you wrote 100%. I see more people channeling this spirit
and that. And, it is very difficult to break the illusion because the person
so believes in it. I always suggest while on the other side in the invisible
world, that the forces are tested and confronted directly that breaks the
illusion and the release comes along. But, you have to be clear inside to do
that. 

I am with you about working on purification, humility, letting go of control
of ones life, seeking quiet, monitoring thoughts all day every day and
bringing detachment directly into action. And when able to really get
grounded in the heart center, then and only then can you awaken the dragon. 

Do you go along with this? Gloria

[6] From: John Halonen 
Subject: Thank you for sharing.

Thank you Natha for sharing information with us.  When you find a group or
list like this,
it is in hope that some knowledge can be gained from it.  Hatha Yoga you
said was
about preparing the nadis or energy channels.  What would be a good book to
read to get
started on Hatha Yoga and do you need an instructor for this type of yoga.

Sincerely,
John Halonen

[7] From: Iver Juster 
Subject: A [different]Vision of Evolution

There seems to be a lot of consensus that the k is an evolutionary force. 

Many people feel that the evolutionary process is an upward one.

I played "what if" and had this vision:

The birthplace of Tantra is the valley between Inida and Tibet (Nepal,
Bhutan?) etc.
>From there of course Tantra went west to become a yoga. And east to become
the source of Tantric Buddism.  (I have read this much in a book on the
origins of Buddist Tantra.)

The energy of the k was once a simple, creative energy. With the development
of these religions over time, the interpretation of the k became more and
more complex, fragmented amongst various cultures.

This parallels what happened to civilization that got more and more into the
definitions, the labels, the names, the territories, the power trips, etc. K
itself became more and more removed from something an ordinary person could
experience. It was placed into the hands of priests, monks, and so on.
Common folk were told that they were unclean, unpure, etc.
....

Now: evolution happens as male and female join together, to create and
co-create ever more adaptable and valuable energies (life among them)

Maybe for true evoltution to happen, there needs to be balance. The female
(the undifferentiated whole) must match (catch up to) the evolution that the
male side (the fragmented many) has undergone. 

If this is true, then the evolutionary force is not about going higher and
higher, but about achieving the balance between the one and the many. And
given the overwhelming emphasis we (certainly this list is included) have
had on the "going higher" part, maybe true evolution will occur as we can
"surrender into" the vast ocean of pure undifferentiated energy, not the
other way around. 

A boundaries dissolve, the god and goddess in all of us is revealed. The
love pours forth, the wars will end. There is nothing to do, but to
surrender into the divine oneness. For our planet, this may represent a far
greater evolutionary leap than continued bickering over whose way is more
"right."


...just an  idea

Best,

Patti

[8] From: Daryl Barnett 
Subject: Way too much talking and thinking...

I suscribed to this list yesterday.

As one who has experienced kundalini awakening by a true guru, I can find
the grace to say to you all with love and respect, kundalini does not need
to be -discussed- .

For followers/seekers to attain the ultimate, we need to meditate and live
the path of Yoga.

Talking will only undermine our attempts.

Read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.  Read the Yoga Vasishta.  Read and know
the Bhagavad Gita.

Share your experiences.  Request prayer from others for your difficulties.
Do not intellectualize kundalini.

I am unsuscribing today.

Sincerely,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Daryl Barnett
  dbarnettATNOSPAMcats.ucsc.edu
  408.458.9399
  University of California Santa Cruz

"I will tell you what I will do and what I will not do.  I will not serve
that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my
fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of
life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence
the only arms I allow myself to use silence, exile and cunning."

James Joyce (1882=961941), Irish author. Stephen Dedalus, in A Portrait of
 the Artist as a Young Man, ch. 5 (1916).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


 
[9] From: Stevie 
Subject: Re: Way too much talking and thinking...

"As one who has experienced kundalini awakening by a true guru, I can find
the grace to say to you all with love and respect, kundalini does not need
to be -discussed-," 

said Daryl.
__________

[10] From: Wendy 
Subject: Smiles to All

The other day I wrote this to a friend, partially inspired by all the k
talk.  It's meant with a light heart, and sent with a smile, to All.

Helpful Hints for How to Behave Appropriately in the Presence of a Saint

1) Upon meeting a Saint, bow but not TOOOO deferentially.  After all, you
yourself could be one and NOT EVEN KNOW IT.

2) Shake his or her hand before you kiss it, so as not to make them feel
unearthly.  Saints are people too ya know. 

3) Be yourself.  If you start being someone else, even Saints can get confused.

4) If you're dying to talk about your tatoo and it's in a 'private place'
(as they say in the 3rd grade 'sex ed' classes now)...be sure the Saint has
their veil lifted so they can get a better view.

5) When in the presence of a Saint, allow all the good energy vibes to seep
into your pours.  If you notice a tree....talk to it.  If you notice a rock
moving, follow it.  There are many paths to Sainthood.  Not all are paved in
cobblestones.

6) If the Saint wishes to Bless you with his/her shaktipat, there's nothing
you need do but 'Be Here Now.'  The rest will be taken care of by God.

7)  Don't get her/him too drunk or her/his aura might start peeing on your
lawn.  Saints have the same basic anatanomical functions non-Saints do.  Or
so I'm told.

8)  Don't mention Crosses.

9)  Beatific smiling is allowed.

10) Worship God.  Not drunken Saints.


Um,

Wendy
http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
_________________________

  Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
                 - David Wilcox
_________________________			
The reverse side always has a reverse side
		- Japanese proverb

[11] From: Christopher Forth 
Subject: Introduction

Hi, all--

I'm glad I finally found a discussion group like this. My name is Chris, I'm 29
and live in Memphis. I had what I believe was a kundalini experience a week
ago, but am not very sure. While I've read a bit about the experience, I'm not
sure if mine fits--hence, I'm very interested in seeing what other subscribers
think about this.

I began meditating with a friend who had awakened kundalini several months
before, and within ten days I found that I too began swaying from side to side
during our sittings. I really wasn't trying to awaken the energy, mostly
because of the psychosis that attended my friend's awakening (he's fine now, it
seems). Two days later I sat by myself and decided to see what the swaying led
to, and was quite surprised by the result.

The side-to-side movement quickened over the course of a few minutes, and very
abruptly shifted to a front-to-back movement. This too lasted several minutes,
intensifying throughout. Towards the end my entire body was convulsing as
energy began to move upwards through my neck, which now was bent backwards.
This too passed through, and left me feeling as if energy was streaming
throughout my body. When after a minute or so of complete pleasure, it started
again (at this point I stopped, mostly to recover my wits).

Since then, I begin swaying every time I sit, and go through several "cycles"
of the above, which are generally less intense. I've found that I can almost
immediately go into meditation now, whereas I had some trouble previously with
relaxation.

Now for some observations. While I had some spinal sensations at first, the
experience was much more generalized than I've read. And yet, yesterday I noted
that my spine began tingling by itself when I was NOT sitting (this lasted for
several hours). Also, there is a distinct sense of sexual arousal (at times 
it's pretty obvious!) attending these experiences. 

I'd very much appreciate some reactions to these symptoms, which generally
conform to what I know about kundalini. Do these suggest proper development? Is
this happening too quickly? Have I been influenced by the experience of my
friend to such an extent that I am somehow "willing" these experiences (though
that seems unlikely)? Is it possible to have one's kundalini awakened by simply
being NEAR another during meditation? I'm familiar with shaktipat, but this
friend hardly seems capable of directing his energy, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Finally, what to do now? The swami I had been taking raja yoga classes with is
now out of the country, and I really don't have a guru to turn to at this time.
I've heard all of the warnings about messing with this energy without guidance,
and am thus understandably concerned about doing much more than simply
meditating. Any suggestions?

Sorry to bombard the list with these questions, but I don't know where else to
turn. Any advice or responses would be greatly appreciated.

Best,


Chris

[12] From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: Answers

Dorothy and All:

Somehow I missed Natha's post so I won't comment on that, but I can say 
that there have been many self-proclaimed professionals who try to reduce 
the k-experience to a brain/chemical malfunction.  I cannot believe that 
any who espouse this theory have ever experienced the k.  For myself, I 
can only say that what I have learned from my experience has more meaning 
and value to me than anyone's theory.  It is real.  It is profound.  And 
it is changing us from the DNA up, IMO.

I agree with you, Dorothy, that the DSMs are in the process of radical 
revision and we have the kundalini to thank for that.

Karol Ann

[13] From: Graham Dumpleton 
Subject: Re: Way too much talking and thinking...

Daryl Barnett wrote:
>
> As one who has experienced kundalini awakening by a true guru, I can find
> the grace to say to you all with love and respect, kundalini does not need
> to be -discussed- .
> 
> For followers/seekers to attain the ultimate, we need to meditate and live
> the path of Yoga.
> 
> Talking will only undermine our attempts.

Would a true Guru, ie., one who loves his/her followers and cares for the
spiritual well being of his/her followers, keep his/her followers ignorant.
No, he gives his followers through word of mouth as well as through written
text his teachings. If we were never to talk, how could we ever ask 
questions of the Guru in order to learn from his wisdom. A Guru will know
a great deal more than what you find in the written texts. If this weren't
the case and it were possible to rely purely on written texts, why would we
need to go to the Guru in the first place. The Guru could set up shop
at the local supermarket and if we really wanted the experience of the
Guru, we could visit the supermarket to obtain his blessing the same as if
we were going to buy a loaf of bread.

If one believes every thing the Guru says simply because they say it, all
we are doing is submitting ourselves to their control. You do not honour
the Guru or God by doing this. One has to evaluate what the Guru says and
come to an understanding of his message. The road you travel to spiritual
enlightenment is not the same as the Guru, thus how can you expect his
experiences and his insights to mean exactly the same thing for you. It is
often necessary to intellectualise something we hear to be able to come to
some understanding of it and what it means to us. It is the nature of the
mind and the self that we do this. If we deny this within ourselves we deny
God as that nature comes from God. One person cannot have all the answers,
although, someone elses answer isn't always the answer for us either. All
the same, the list is a valuable meeting point where issues can be
discussed. We still will not find all the answers on the list and thus it
can also be worthwhile to read the written texts, but can you say that they
have all the answers either.

--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)