Date: Wed, 17 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 57 [1] From: DOROTHY BATES Subject: Re: Answers To Natha: I've been reading your messages and felt that Graham Dumpleton's comments were absolutely correct...since you maintain that communicating with others with some concern for Their feelings and frame of reference is "oily," I figure you recommend a more direct approach. I have done psychic work for a long time and spent 3 years in a Western spiritual path and what I keep feeling while reading your messages is a powerful arrogance, an overbearing ego, a mania for imparting information. But my primary reason for finally getting into this is your early comment that all those people (the hundreds of thousands and more) having various experiences in consciousness are "pathological" or "schizophrenic" and that this can be taken care of by "traditional medicine." Obviously you are not aware of the work of the Kundalini Research Network in Canada, the Spiritual Emergence Network in California, the Shared Transformation Newsletter, the sanctuaries starting in the U.S., and the entire movement toward a new paradigm or model of mental illness which is now called spiritual emergence. The fact that Gopi Krishna did not follow the exact forms of Yoga that you espouse, that he worked on his own, is the Very Reason that his experience and his writings are so important... most people are doing what he did and don't have specific teachings and this makes him the ideal teacher for most of us. If "traditional medicine" can handle all of this, what would you, from your exalted state, recommend? Prozac? Electro-shock? Pre-frontal lobotomy? Dorothy Bates [2] From: Natha Bhaktyananda Subject: Re: Debee Debee L. Thomas wrote: > > Natha, > My name is Debee and I've been asked to host a web page for the > Kundalini Resource Center based in Hawaii. It will deal with meditation > and creative visualization. They have asked me to find meditations and > such which will assist with the rising K or pave the way. Things such as > clearing chakras, releasing anger, and other negative emotions. I am > looking for people who would like to contribute some which they use and > which they find are helpful to themselves. I believe they could be > helpful to others too. If you know of any and would be willing to share > them with others, would you be willing to send me some? It would be > greatly appreciated. I don't know if you saw the post I put up about it > or not, and if you did, please forgive me for sending you this now. If > you are interested in helping out, please let me know. > > Blessed Be > > Debee------------------------------------------------------ Dear Debee, Although visualisation methods and meditation methods are generally less risky when it comes to kundalini rising (since they work more upon the astral body or mental body), there still may be some dangers involved here. Besides those mentioned in my answer from today to Michael (q.v.), here is example of a couple of them: Visualisation methods often can generate undesirable hallucinations (which eventually come to be taken as reality by the subject -- only in L.A., daily there are registered in the official reccords 3 new religions (!?) if you can believe that, and 2 years ago there were (in L.A.) over 3,000 "channels" who could communicate with anything, from alien mother-ships till the spirit of Tutankhamon, and from God-the-Father Himself till "transdimensional intelligences"; moreover, there is (still in California!) an entire church that prays to Elvis Presley instead of Jesus Christ, and there are within it "bona fide" people who can swear that Elvis has appeared to them and healed them from some incurable diseases!); besides this, they can amplify the fire, especially for those who are born in fire-signs astrologically or who have a lot of fire in their horoscopes. As an example, I will mention the Tibetan technique of tumo (heat generating through kundalini rising) where one visualises various degrees of flames; it is in Tibet a well-known thing that while practising this technique the disciple should not come in the presence of fire, neither enter artificially heated rooms. The explanation is that the *resonance* with the fire-element becomes so intense that brought in the presence of actual fire (or heat) the practitioner would experience an outburst of heat (like a "swelling up" of fire from within), and this can have disastrous efects for one's health, going until fits of choking and even death... Only when one becomes a master in controlling these processes, can one resume the "normal" course of life. The second case is that of mental rising of kundalini via meditation. Although this does not give spectacular physical effects, it affects one's mind. Suddenly one's mind and view of life changes as by magic (the usual comparison is: as if taking on a pair of coloured glasses). Especially if two very distant levels of consciosuness are involved (say, ajna and svadhishthana), the person suffers enormously and usually thinks of herself as insane. The reason is that from time to time, very seldom and entirely without deliberate control, the person experiences states of consciosuness which are amazingly different from the daily condition. For a couple of minutes everything seemes perfectly clear, detached, glorious, macrocosmic, as quick as lightning, etc., and then suddenly the whole thing re-becomes grey and dull, leaving only a trace of painful nostalgia and a feelingof being very low or unworthy. Since I would not make this (also :-) a long message, I will stop here by suggesting that it would be better if on the home-page that you will host, you would insist more on the preparation (of goal, purification, moral, theoretical, etc.) to the rising of kundalini rather than with actual methods to do it -- since it can easily become a one way ticket! I will always be available with further clarifications, if you wish. Spiritual greetings and blessing, -- Natha Bhaktyananda Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K Denmark Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668 [3] From: Natha Bhaktyananda Subject: Re: Basics for Michael Michael wrote: > > Dear Natha Bhaktyanana, > > I have been reading the list for only a week. > I have not read anything useful in trying to > understand kundalini except for your letters. > > I have a book called ,"Kundalini Yoga for > Strenth, Succsess & Spirit" by Ravi Singh. > It has an explination of what kundalini is, > poses, meditations, mantras for balance and > healing.But nothing I've read tells about how > to exit through chakras. Is this like astral > flying? The Tibeten Book of the Dead tells how > to avoid being deluded in to accepting the wrong > kind of light after death.(in your"Answer to Von.") > > I have read kundalini can be dangerous with out > proper guidence.Unfortunatly in Seattle there is not > a kundalini center to learn from.If I practice the > poses in the book I have will enlightenment ensue?Or > is there more? > > I've also had "experiences" some wierd and frighting > (from drugs) and one blissfull from zen practice. > (I can relate to the "drowning in waters where saints > swim")But still have not raised my awareness. > > What I'm asking is for you to start at the begining > with the list corespondence for people who know little > or nothing of raising kundalini(my self).In this man > ner people can learn what is kundalini and how to > better understand it.It is obvious you do. > > Sincerly, > Michael R. Hernandez Dear Michael, The book that you've got appears to come from the 3HO Foundation, dealing with a Sikh (not sick :-) form of kundalini yoga. While it covers well some aspects of physical postures, it says little if not nothing about the esoteric/metaphyisical aspects of kundalini, and other occult matters. However, justice must be done to the author, since such things are indeed hard to put on paper. Since you are a rookie in kundalini and have no teacher yet, my advice for you is to *take it easy*, since kundalini is (roughly speaking) an *irreversible* process; read also the comments from the answer that will come to Debee, on this list. This is not meant to scare you or to turn you back, since kundalini is actually supposed to be the greatest blessing for a human being when awakened *in a controlled manner*, but can easily become a pain in the butt (sometimes literally speaking :-) if else. The main thing to do first is to ask yourself very seriously: *Why* do you want to awaken you kundalini? When it will be stirred up, what will you do with it -- since this is not just another toy to throw in your cellar when you've got bored of it? Have you got the aspiration to assault again and again, for a whole lifetime if necessary, the gates of the Infinite, or are you driven only by a moderate curiosity to dabble in occult matters? If you are not clear enough about these matters, better take a "soft" approach to kundalini -- there are methods that last longer but take you on a path that is less steep. Do a little hatha yoga for the preparing of the nadi-s (channels of energy), use *refined* forms of meditation (i.e. subtle, ethereal forms, not very physically-oriented, such as the Zen that you mention), approach the kriya yoga system of purification, investigate the matters of devotion, karma yoga (the yoga of detached actions), and Self-knowledge. But wait with the hard stuff until you know for sure what you want to do with your life... Since you have asked about introductory, basic information concerning kundalini, I will give here a few hints. Most people fancy that kundalini is a mysterious huge force that lies coiled at the base of the spine, and which rises alike a fiery serpent of power, sometimes burning and destroying everything in its way. Although this might sometimes be the *feeling* that it gives when it rises through the gross layers (bodies), this is not what it actually *is*. The Tantric tradition calls it explicitely: "the potential of cosmic fusion". To translate this in understandable language, it is first necessary to mention here two basic statements of the tradition: 1. That the human being is a miniature copy of the Universe. Although often quoted, this statement seldom seems to be understood practically. It implies that *all* which exists in the Macrocosm (stars, Sun, cosmic energy, earth, void, vegetal life, etc.) somehow exists also projected at a miniature scale in the human microcosm (and not necessarily in the *body* itself) -- this is the case of the navel chakra, where the projection of the Sun exists, for example. But the opposite is also true: if there is love in the microcosm of the human being, then there must also exist love in the Macrocosm, but so much larger then the human love, as the Sun is larger than our own pathetic "solar chakra" and the body-heat that it generates. If there is intelligence within us, then there is a Universal intelligence. If there is consciousness in man, then there is a Cosmic Consciousness. 2. The second tenet is that the big Universe and the small one (i.e. the human being) communicate with each other (and the small ones also communicate in between them) through the agency of the phenomenon of *resonance* -- this is perhaps the *key word* in the entire Yoga. Resonance is the same phenomenon that your radio receiver uses when you *attune* it to various stations, on various wavelengths or frequencies -- when you attune it you actually bring it into resonance with the frequency of the station that broadcasts. This says that we interract with the Universe and with each other as walkie-talkies would. And it also says that whatever we seem to have or be is only a *loan* from the Macrocosm, since we ceaselessly give and receive energies through resonance. And moreover, it says that as long as you do not create any resonance you act by draining your own batteries, while by resonance one can "plug into the main power supply" and draw energy endlessly and inexhaustably (see the example of the Tibetan tumo practitioners, who can generate unbelievable amounts of body-heat in spite of a very meagre diet). Now, why was all this theory put on (Internet) paper? Because this is exactly where kundalini comes into the game. While the chakra-s are precisely the antennas through which this communication occurs, kundalini is the trigger that makes it possible. The best modern comparison of kundalini is that it acts as a *catalyzer*. What does a catalyzer do (for those who have shirked the Chemistry class)? A little drop of catalyzer in a reservoir of 5 tons with reactives makes possible a huge-scale reaction which would have been impossible withut its presence, and amazingly enough, in the end the catalyzer itself can be recovered integrally and used again and again. This is how kundalini also is. Kundalini is not a huge energy in itself -- for where the heck would it come from, since we have got no nuclear reactors in our tail-bones! But what kundalini does when it reaches into a chakra, is that it *makes the resonance possible*, and suddenly the Universe begins to overflow great amounts of energy (compared with one's hitherto limited possibilities) through that particular chakra. That is why kundalini *seems* to be such a strong thing; but as a matter of fact, it is just a tiny little trigger. And one last observation: most people are brought to believe that the kundalini experience is a sudden one (according to the model: today nothing, tommorow everything). But this is very *very* seldom the case. Usually the "window" that kundalini opens towards the Macrocosmic energies is openning gradually, over several years: 1%, 1.5%, 2%, 5%, etc. This has been a long message, and that is why I will stop here for now. Spiritual greetings, -- Natha Bhaktyananda Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K Denmark Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668 [4] From: ori^ Subject: Mental and physical illness [was: Re: Answers] At 09:02 AM 7/17/96 EDT, Dorothy Bates wrote: >Obviously you are not aware of the work of the Kundalini >Research Network in Canada, the Spiritual Emergence Network in California, >the Shared Transformation Newsletter, the sanctuaries starting in the U.S., >and the entire movement toward a new paradigm or model of mental illness >which is now called spiritual emergence. Hello Dorothy and all, I feel a need to ask for clarification about what you meant here Dorothy. In all the reading, training and experience I've had I have *never* heard of spiritual emergence considered as a new paradigm of mental illness. Mental illness and spiritual emergence are very different phenomenon. What I have learned is that quite often symptoms of spiritual emergence are diagnosed as mental illness... but this does not mean that *all* cases of mental illness are caused by spiritual emergence. Of the groups listed above, I only have experience (thus far) with The Spiritual Emergence Network, and part of the focus (at least in the local group I am involved with) is to help educate people about the differences between mental illness and spiritual emergence... whether that be kundalini, talking to spirit guides or angels, etc. There are cases which do require the assistance of someone other than a spiritual practitioner. Likewise in the recent discussion about about seizures, I feel strongly that certain cases may require medical treatment. While it might be argued that all causes of illness, be they mental or physical, are from spiritual causes, I think it is a mistake to just automatically dismiss medical treatments are unnecessary. True, there have been extraordinary healings by spiritual healers... and also by medical healers. Quite an interesting topic all in itself, is how do we distinguish between spiritual and medical (physical/mental) symptoms? ori^ ********************** * ori^ * * mermaidATNOSPAMeskimo.com * ********************** [5] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Replies to various comments to Jule Yes El, you have my permission to quote, I have written to you privately on the matter. To Lisa: Yes it was quite a struggle to fit God, Christianity, and Kundalini together. For a long time I tried to follow church teachings. Slowly it dawned on me that I had to follow my own truth. For a while I felt as if I'd hit a brick wall in my mind, there was a definite struggle going on between tradition and safety, and stepping out into uncharted waters. The breakthrough came when I had a long dream which related the Bible to being like a college course. I left the college, and rowed across a lake. On the other side I met a German Shepherd dog who led the way along a path. A voice in my dream said "Follow your own shepherd" . Since then I've followed my own path and guidance. which eventually led to "K". As far as how I have put the framework of the theology of Christianity into the framework of "K". I have been able to do that with much struggle, and it is a continuing process. I'm not sure the rest of the list would want to hear it. there are so many diverse views out there and I think it would be best to write to each other privately on specifics. My adress is SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com , please let me know what particularly interests you, all of it fascinates me anyway and we can take it from there. To Graham: For what it is worth, you don't come across as an oily politician to me. Your posts are very helpful. As they say in 12 step groups, we all need to learn to take what we can and leave the rest. Love Jule [6] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Torn chakras, etc. This is an attempt by me to clear up some of the confusion that I may have inadvertently created by my earlier posts- or rather some of them. I am going to quote from Barbara Brennan's book Hands of Light, and comment a little, on the quote, that at least might clear up mytorn heart chakra experience. This is from her chapter on full spectrum healing which in mycopy is p222-225 Don't worry these are only tiny exerts! The guides of the patient always come to healings and assist. If you are alert, you will see them walk into the healing room with the patient------ To restructure the ketheric grid (the 7th level body in her system) of an organ, the guides usually remove the grid structure of the organ from the body. This can happen only if the consciousness of the patient allows it.----- There are several major ways that chakras become damaged. They can be TORN open , the screen over them may be damaged, a vortex can be clogged and slowed in its spinning motion, the point of the chakra MAY NOT BE SEATED CORRECTLY INTO THE HEART OR ROOT AREA of the chakra or a vortex may be sticking out or flopping over and look like a spring that has sprung. the whole chakra can be almost gone, or a small part of it can be affected.----- The golden light forces the disfigured vortex to its normal position. This last is what happened when I felt the force of energy push my chakra into position. Notice the consent of the patient is needed by the guides to do this. Why I was included in the discussion. As for my discussions on the solar plexus , or the third chakra. Another quote from Brennan,This is associated with the mental body, and in health it develops clear thinking used to implement LOVE and WILL-p140 the chart. The kind of will here seems to be the will to love unconditionally rather than the will to control others and their thinking. I am gleaning this from her book, many other sources and my own experience, I admit. She does mention that issues of father and mother come into play here, and this is the place where we begin to attain a sense of self-i.e. the ego. In my own case my parents have and still have a continuing battle between love and will as defined above. This has been played out in my genes that I inherited, and until I could resolve that issue within myself, I could not move up to the heart area. To haave any form of unconditional love we have to give up all desire to control others. Then our heart opens. The throat is also a will center, but that is more comples, not so much self-will, as will to create in the world, and implement our purpose for being here and so on. Hence the voice. I think it is important to remember there is much valid literature in the West, about energy and the chakras, but you will never see that name, or the word Kundalini. They are from Eastern traditions. But the Western tradition is just as valid in its way. If you look hard enough you can see which energy systems are being discussed even in books by psychologists and the like, you just have to be open to it. It's all energy, no matter what the name. Again take what you can and leave the rest. One other point, personally as someone from Western traditions I do not find it helpful to talk about sun centers in the solar plexus region. This is because Brennan talks about a core star in the area between the heart and throat. This is in Light Emerging. From my own experience this is right on. so talk of suns in the third chakra area is confusing. We all have our systems and yes it is difficult to sort it all out, but I imagine this will be an ongoing process well into the Aquarian age. We will have to live with it. Love Jule [7] From: John Halonen Subject: Re: Body massage and energy. 7-11 has always been my lucky numbers. Please do post on massage and it's healing qualities. I found that during my massage she was directly pulling at my Kundalini energy up to my head. Maybe something on massage would be very beneficial Sincerely, John Halonen -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Saturday, 13-Jul-96 09:06 AM From: Graham Dumpleton \ Internet: (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au) Subject: Re: Body massage and energy. John Halonen wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > Yesterday was my birthday and my wife got me surprise. My first > professional massage. My birthday was July 11 as well. Going by the date on your mail, I presume that is when you mean't. I was born in 1966. I even had a massage on my birthday as well. I have it each week though. Maybe after I get some work done I will post something on the list on massage and other healing modalities as they can be helpful in working with Kundalini. -- Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au) -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- [8] From: John Halonen Subject: Re: Body massage and energy and more This is a good reply. All life is energy, but when the kundalini energy is raised it will supposedly connect or help you connect to higher consciousness and hopefully gracefulness. Obviously this is something we all probably want or we wouldn't be reading this list. But you are right, the attraction we have to kundalini probably deters it from rising faster than it would if we just concentrated on the fact that all life is energy and the more we work towards helping others and realize that every day is blessed it would rise on it's own. But I guess we are here in hope that there are techniques to help raise this Kundalini energy while we concentrate on the things I previously listed. As some one on this list repeatedly says, we should observe the things I mentioned above and the transformations that occur in our daily life and all things and then let them go. Sincerely, John Halonen -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Friday, 12-Jul-96 01:32 PM Subject: Re: Body massage and energy and more dear john and other list members, i recently joined the list and have been observing posts for a while. here is my question: all life is energy, do we agree on that? if that is so, then how is it that on the list certain experiences we have are deemed "kundalini" (e.g., laughing after a good massage) and others are not? personally, i would be more comfortable talking about Energy and Transformation rather than specifically labelling so many broad happenings as "kundalini". it seems that with some people there is a strong attachment to the word _per se_ and to the particular phenomena of the process. what interests me is where it is all going--the journey of transformations from self to Self. the ego can really latch onto those lights and sensations along the way and then they have the potential to become real distractions from the true goal. i do not intend to be critical here, just sharing some observations and hoping to stimulate some responses and new avenues to explore on the list. regards, katie rose ********** [9] From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers) Subject: Re: Answers Dear all, HAD to jump in here - as I see this being funny - :) Dorothy was saying..... >I have done psychic work for >a long time and spent 3 years in a Western spiritual path and what I keep >feeling while reading your messages is a powerful arrogance, an overbearing >ego, a mania for imparting information. .....me to, - I'm learning, I'm learning!!, although I also sense that Natha has quite a good grasp of the stages our bodies go through while being brought into the light. He also has some very good advice, mixed in. >But my primary reason for finally >getting into this is your early comment that all those people (the hundreds >of thousands and more) having various experiences in consciousness are >"pathological" or "schizophrenic" and that this can be taken care of by >"traditional medicine." laughable :) Like I want this "illness" to go away?? ha ha, No way! > If "traditional medicine" >can handle all of this, what would you, from your exalted state, recommend? >Prozac? Electro-shock? Pre-frontal lobotomy? Dorothy Bates > Thanks for the laughs Dorothy. :) ha ha I think they would have to take out the entire inner section of my brain, and cut off all the nerves. In laughter, Michelle >