Date: Mon, 15 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 53
[1] From: kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com (Spark)
Subject: Re: Kundalini, of course!
Natha wrote:
>I'm relatively new to this list, and therefore I have only listened
>quietly to other
>messages for several days. However, since I am not at all new to the
>subject of
>kundalini (since I have experienced its first controlled rising 14 years
>ago and I have
>been working without any accident with other people on it for the last 12
>years), I
>would like to post some introductory observations:
Natha, thanks for the breath of fresh air. I particularly liked the
clarification about the different levels/bodies of kundalini. Keep 'em
coming...
kent
Private Communication GateZone Communications
___________________________
Internet, network, database tools, and the
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Kent Livingston kentATNOSPAMgatezone.com 512.443.8855
[2] From: David Pfeffer
Subject: Re: Personal Effects of Kundalini
Graham,
Thank you for the informative response. The attempt of science to
study Kundalini reassures me that my body insn't rebelling against me. :-)
In your post, however, you were describing effects of long term
meditation. I started the Kundalini execises last week. To be honest I
haven't been as consistent as I should be. I was impressed at the fact
that my nerves were completely relaxed for the whole day after
meditation. This was even the case when at work an empty display in the
basement fell and scared me half to death. In normal circumstances I
would have been shaking the whole day. I am very grateful to these
exercises.
A couple nights ago I felt a pressure at the area described in my book
as the manas chakra. I felt comforting despite that I felt like my
forhead was being pressed down by someone. After that, I have been
getting headaches off and on. Actually, last night a headache started
for no reason. (I tend to get tension headaches where my neck is so
tense that someone has to massage it or I will be in excruciating pain)
This was nothing like it. It started at the manas chakra area then
spread over both my eyes. (That was such a wierd feeling.) Then it
moved completely over to the right side of my brain. I was at a cafe at
the time and my friend told my to order some chamomille (sp.?)tea. That
actually helped and my headache was reduced from a throbbing to a slight
pressure which I am still feeling right now. (By the way I was not
drinking last night so it is not a hangover! :-)) Any explanation would
again be appreciated. Like I said earlier I have only been seriously
looking into Kundalini for the last week. The book I purchased has been
helpful in explaning what is going on, but more opions would be reassuring.
Thanks.
Dave
dpfefferATNOSPAMfreenet.hamilton.on.ca
[3] From: Stephen W Long
Subject: GuruMayi
Do you know her? Heard of her. SYDA ? I have the opportunity to attend
an instensive in Falsburg on Aug 10,11.."Divine State of Liberation" and
to receive shaktipat from her.
Have you been there, done that ?...any suggestions, comments advice from
any one more experienced than I would be most appreciated.
Stephen
[4] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Personal Effects of Kundalini
David Pfeffer wrote:
>
> Thank you for the informative response. The attempt of science to
> study Kundalini reassures me that my body insn't rebelling against me. :-)
> In your post, however, you were describing effects of long term
> meditation.
Yes, this is one area of the model which does present a problem. Bentov's
work was in relation to long term meditators, Sanella however saw that
the same end result was being seen in relation to Kundalini. Ie., same
end result but different stimuli. The problem is that although Bentov
came up with some sort of model as to how the initial stimulus caused the
end result for long term meditators, Sanella did not present a model as to
how the Kundalini could effect the same end result. All Sanella could do
was speculate that the end result is the same and thus perhaps to some
degree, some of the same mechanisms could come into play. It is this lack
of some model as to how the Kundalini causes the same end result that others
disagree with there being a connection.
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[5] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Body massage and energy and more
Actually, I got the french translation. The editor for the french version is
Editions Amrita. The ISBN is 2-904616-85-3. I hope this helps. This book has
been very helpful as to understand more about the spiritual side of the K. as
well as the physical symptoms.
>
>Hello Snowbird (is this correct??),
>This book you are talking about is not available in Holland and cannot be
>ordered. Can you see if there's a ISBN number or something else on it?
>I've allways wanted to have it, it is mentioned in Bonnie Greenwell's
>book, i read 3 years ago. Anyway, i would welcome any information to be
>able to get it... Funny you're coming up with it, 3 weeks ago i asked the
>list if someone knew of thist book... Thanx, Frans.
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[6] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Kundalini, of course!
Well, thank you very much! I think we all need some more information on
the traditional understanding of K. But I must clear this one with you:
my fears of the Kundalini energy comes from the more traditional books
I've read where it is said that no one should even attempt to rise the
energy without the counsel of a guru. They are the ones who declare that
someone experiencing the rising of the K without a guru is doomed. For
me, it was discouraging to read such books. As for the the discrepancies
surrounding the wrongful placement of the chakras, I've read different
versions in the tibethan buddhist books and some Indian books. I took
this difference as being a question of the same thing being expressed in
a different manner. But of course, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to
eastern religions. I'm doing as much as I can without proper direction.
I have to rely on my instinct.
Bringing information couldn't be offensive to me!!!! Personnally, I'm
over the physical aspect, meaning I've accepted it, and I'm ready and
fearful at the same time of what's next for me on this path.
>Hello everybody!
>
>I'm relatively new to this list, and therefore I have only listened
>quiet ly to other messages for several days. However, since I am not at
>all new to the subj ect of kundalini (since I have experienced its first
>controlled rising 14 years ago and I have been working without any
>accident with other people on it for the last 12 years), I would like to
>post some introductory observations:
>
>1. This list does not seem to have escaped the "New Age"(?!)
>misconceptions concerning kundalini, the chakra-s, and spiritual
>awakening in general. Some of the most blatant of them date as long ago
>as from the Theosophical Society's works upon the s ubject (e. g.
>spinning chakra-s, svadhishthana chakra placed in the spleen-area
>instead of the lower belly, manipura chakra placed in the solar plexus
>instead of the na vel, anahata chakta placed into the heart instead of
>the middle of the chest, ajna chakra placed between the eyebrows
>instead of the middle-forehead, etc.) Others are the work of more modern
>epigones (e.g. the colours of the rainbow phantasmagorically ascri bed
>one by one to the chakra-s, etc.).
>
> Maybe the most often perpetuated error however concerning
>kundalini is the modern fear of the "spontaneous" or "involuntary"
>rising of kundalini (as a kind of occult bogeyman), by virtue of which a
>lot of people call themselves "kun dalini victims". In this trend, all
>kind of daily phenomena or pathological mani festations come to be
>pretentiously called "kundalini risings": from epileptic seizures t o
>orgasms, and from fits of hysteria to shizofrenic hallucinations. While
>it may sometimes be true that some phenomena (e.g. the orgasm,
>according to the Tantric tradition) disp lay *remote echoes* of a
>kundalini movement, to make them (and all the rest of the st uff evoked
>above) *equivalent* with a kundalini rising is a bitter mistake. If this
>was indeed true, the whole mystery of kundalini could be reduced to some
>gross physiology, while the witness of the sages and yogis of yore who
>have worked hardly for 10- 30 years to obtain a true kundalini
>experience would just make them a bunch of fools who have wasted their
>time with inefficient methods (while they could have had so much fun,
>right?:-)
>
> From practical experience, I can report that in over 12 years of
>working with people over the matter of kundalini shakti and its rising,
>I have encountered lots who have presented themselves as "kundalini
>victims", but there was *NOT EVEN A SINGLE ONE* who was not a mere
>pathologic case and therefore whose problem could not been solved by
>the methods of traditional medicine! In all these years I have only
>once heard of *one* case that has been proved *conclusively* to be a
>true case of spontaneous kundalini rising, and this was not because of
>lack of contact with the public -- I have taught even *groups* of 200
>plus students in kundalini yoga!
>
> I hope that some people out there can still preserve their sense
>of humor as well as the common sense, and realise that all these
>statements are not a matter of putting anybody down, neither of
>bragging, but of putting things in the right perspective through the
>Tradition and personal experience.
>
>
>2. When dealing with kundalini, almost nobody seems to realise that the
>Tradition clearly explains that there is not *one* kundalini, but
>*seven* different branches of kundalini -- one for each "body". Thus, it
>is perfectly possible to exper ience the rising of kundalini
>*distinctly* in various layers of the being. That is why, not everybody
>who will have a kundalini rising (or will even reach a state of samadhi
>= enlightenment (roughly)) will necessarily experience *physical* or
>*etheric* symptoms of kundalini -- which are the most "spectacular"
>ones, but also the most gro ss and useless. The opposite is also true:
>while one may have enormous (or devastating) p hysical effects from
>kundalini (e.g. for the unprepared ones: spontaneous explosion of the
>blood-vessels in various areas of the body, short-circuiting of the
>spinal marrow, para lysis, instant death), this does not at all show
>that they will get any spiritual or par anormal effect out of it.
>
> A lot of people in the West have been fascinated by Gopi
>Krishna's personal accounts of kundalini rising (taking them as letter
>of the law) and by his attempts to rationalise the phenomenon and
>*conveniently* reduce it to its physiological support; yet very few
>know that in the hard-core Yogic circles from India, Gopi Krishna was
>known not only as being a superficial amator, but also to have
>eventually admitted that his kundalini-dabbling has resulted in
>disasters both for himself and for his family, and to have regretted of
>ever having begun to deal and write about this (source: Swami Gitananda,
>Pondicherry, India). That is why it would be better to pick up the
>genuine kundalini information from the true traditional texts and from
>the compet ent Masters (Ramakrishna, Shivananda, Yogananda)...
>
>
>With the hope that those written above have not offended anybody and
>that they will be taken at their true value -- of genuine information
>in the field -- I wil l now conclude with the promise to answer to all
>those interested in further information . Flaming will not be answered,
>since it surpasses my mailing capacity. :-) Spiritually yours,
>
>Natha Bhaktyananda
>K=F8bmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
>Denmark
>Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
[7] From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Muladahara Chakra.
Omar,
Interesting contribution, this is the way it happens although mine is
different, but it is very physcial. Gloria
[8] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Kundalini, of course!
Natha Bhaktyananda
I for one am very happy that you posted your expertise on this subject of
kundalini. Your post is to long and do deep for me to reply to it so fast,
but I will study it more when I have a little more time.
Will you please tell me more about yourself. Like how did you get a name
like Bhaktyananda?
If you don't feel comfortable to give this information out at this time as I
know it is a little personal.
You may write me directly or just take it easy for awhile. You mentioned
competent Masters
like (Ramakrishna, Shivananda, Yogananda). There are a few people also
following the teaching of these masters on this mailing list. I came to
these teaching only after the kundalini experience so I always respect them
and study what they say.
Thanks for the post and welcome.
Von
[9] From: Wendy
Subject: There's crying and there's Crying
Hi Everyone,
I'm feeling brave tonight ("thanks, Karol Anne" ) so I'm going to post
this while the mood lasts!
Here's a wierd question for you all.....but meant in all sincerity.
Has anyone experienced a change in their tears/crying? And, if so, is it
associated in some way with a particular chakra? Or in any way kundalini
related?
I now cry differently. Sometimes I cry 'normally' the way one thinks of
crying....sad....feels very hard.....lonely, etc etc....but you
know-it-won't-last kind of crying. Now I have a 2nd type of crying....and
it is a very CLEANSING thing but the tears STING so badly it feels as though
SALT is oozing out of the tear ducts, too! This kind of crying is much
'deeper' feeling, has a much greater intensity than the first.
A friend of mine, when I tried to describe it to him, said it sounded like
the section in Beethoven's Ninth where the chorus sings "This Kiss is for
All the World"...replace "This Kiss is" with "These Tears Are" and this
describes it very well. I've even noticed that this 2nd kind of crying,
which really STINGS and HURTS, seems to surround some personal interaction
or pain with another or others over some deep loss/sadness - usually
involving an opportunity to express Love when anger, pain or hurt was
expressed, instead.
Just some chemical alteration going on? From an emotional base?
I'm even wondering if one were to chemically analyze the tear samples
whether they'd find the chemical composition between them to be different.
It's that pronounced.
Another way of describing how the emotional differences between the two
types of tears and crying is would be to say that the 1st kind feels
personal. The 2nd feels Universal.
Has anyone heard of something like this or read anything about it? If so,
I'd very much like to hear about it.
Thanks in advance,
Wendy
[10] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Tradition and fears
Snowbird has written:
Well, thank you very much! I think we all need some more information on the
traditional understanding of K. But I must clear this one with you: my fears
of the Kundalini energy comes from the more traditional books I've read where
it is said that no one should even attempt to rise the energy without the
counsel of a guru.
-------------------------------------------------
I would be the last one to deny the great use and help of a Master in dealing
with the ascension of kundalini. And yet, kundalini in itself is no more
dangerous than say electricity. It is common sense to know that touching
a live wire can give one a serious shock, and yet TV-repairers who have to
deal with volatges up till 27,000 V don't get extinct!
Explanation: they have learned where it is allowed to poke one's finger and
where not. The same is valid about kundalini. If its rules would be really
known (unfortunately the Tantric tradition still jealously guards some of them,
and we are surrounded by *lots* of amatorism), to deal with it would be as easy as to
deal with your electric light switch. That is why it is advised to get some *serious*
instruction in the field, especially when one intends to turn it into a spiritual path
for life.
As about mixing indiscriminately information (concerning chakra-s,
for example) from various sources, such as Tibetan Buddhist Tantra-s together with Hindu
Tantric texts or others, this can lead to serious confusions and that is why it has
been advised ever since Pythagoras to stick to *one single tradition* and set
of practices (unless, of course, one's own Master advises else).
This is due to the fact that traditions often work properly only within their
own frame, and become inefficient or even harmful when placed out of it;
it is somehow like trying to mix at the same time alopathic medication
with homeopathic remedies, which most of the doctors disadvise.
With spiritual blessings,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[11] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Tears
To Wendy, For the last 3-4 years I have experienced the salty stinging
tears and was able to apply them to things in our collective unconcious we
are all dealing with here on earth. I call them the tears of God. We seem
to have been involved in losing our original home in the stars, and earth is
the attempt to rebuild. This sounds a little like the UFO
stuff you here so much about. Personally I have no experience of UFO's but
if the strange dreams I've experienced over the years are anything to go by
this is the truth.
Once we experience 'K' we move from our individual consciousness to our
collective unconscious. There is much pain and loss there. That is why our
work here is so
important, we are repairing ourselves. The problem to watch is that as you
identify more with the collective problem it may be projected out into your
personal life in fear of loss there. I've had this happen.
On Migraines:
Iread that migraines are caused by an imbalance between the 3rd eye and
crown chakras. After 'K' which involved both these centers for me my
lifetime migraines cleared up. So there may be some truth to this. I do
however get a kind of nerve inflammation which I think is related to brain
rewiring. Advil helps without inhibiting the process.
On Sleeplessness:
When you cannot stand the sleeplessness anymore, I have found that melatonin
helps.
This is available at health food stores and is merely the hormone that the
pineal-3rd eye
normally emits. It too does not inhibit 'K'.
Love to all Jule
[12] From: Natha Bhaktyananda
Subject: Re: There's crying and there's Crying
Wendy wrote:
> Has anyone experienced a change in their tears/crying? And, if so, is it
> associated in some way with a particular chakra? Or in any way kundalini
> related?-----------------------------------------------
According to the Yogic tradition, there are 3 main "manners" of crying: from
Svadhishthana, from Manipura, and from Anahata (I hope everyone on the list
is familiar with the original names of the chakra-s). How can they be differentiated?
Roughly and very briefly:
The Svadhishthana-crying is the most common, which is no surprise
since this is the planetary dominant level of consciousness. Its characteristics are
that it is associated with depression, dissapointment, anxiety and
hysterical manifestations.
Sometimes it presents variations, such as the famous "crocodile tears" of
hypocrisy. It is noisy and associated with spasms and movements of the body.
It can sometimes appear to be "cosmic", if one' depression takes cosmic proportions.
It may be felt as relieving and purifying, since sometimes it drains some of
the hormone excess -- especially the feminine hormones.
The Manipura-crying is a cry brought about by egotic frustration
and ambition. It is very tensed, spasmodic, angry, destructive and demanding.
Just wach the way Japanese people cry in Japanese movies, and you will get the point.
Sometimes this one relieves the exceeding male hormones.
The heart-crying is an almost entirely different matter, since it
is placed above the threshold of the ego. It is a typical *mystic* crying, and is in
no way associated with personal sorrow or depression. On the contrary, it is often
associated with a feeling of bliss and inner contentment. It can also be easily
recognised by that it flows without screams, spasms, hiccups, etc.,
but *entirely quiet*; the only visible sign are tears flowing down the cheeks
and a specific transfiguration of the face.
Christian mystics have sometimes experienced it *for years at a stretch*,
and consider it to be a great gift of prayer; they say that it is also associated with
the feeling of endless longing for God, and compassionate sorrow in front of a world so
full of madness...
Blessings,
--
Natha Bhaktyananda
Købmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668
[13] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: The solar plexus and the breath
In all cultures the breath is related to spirit. We breath through our
lungs even when sleeping because the nervous system of the body takes care of
it automatically. Some functions are more directly under our control such as
body movement.
The center of both nervous systems is the solar plexus, and one of the aims
of evolution seems to be to make them one. Those who are enlightened have
control of the breath because they directly control both systems.
In terms of spirit being the breath of God, it is as if the lungs are in the
body-automatic system, and the mouth-nose in the head are in the conscious
system. Please note that this is just a picture of what happens to give a
rough idea, it is not a scientific picture.
I am very right-brained!
At the moment with both systems being separate, it is as if the head and body
are
severed from one another. Hence in John's dream, the man felt trapped in a
body without a head! Spirit is often depicted as angels or birds, both have
mastery of the air, and it is air that we breath!
Hope these pictures help with your imagery John.
On shoes in dreams:
Shoes are a ssymbol of the feet and also of the zodiac sign Pisces. I am
also reminded of Christ washing the disciples feet-i.e. a symbol of service
and love. Also Moslems must take off their shoes in the mosque-a symbol of
reverence.
Since there was a yellow triangle in the dream- I agree this is probably a
solar plexus symbol. Perhaps the energy is beginning to move up to the heart
chakra?
Personally I find that names of characters in dreams are very revealing,
regardless of who the person is in relation to me. So one of my dream
interpretion tools is a baby name book. Also I keep Ted Andrews Animal Speak
on hand, so if animal characters appear I
can use it to help interpret what they are telling me.
Hope this helps.
Love Jule
[14] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Torn Chakras
When my 'K' rose, my heart chakra began making a loud rattling noise. A few
nights later 2 spirit beings came and sent a powerful surge of energy to the
chakra that seated it properly. No more problems!
It was explained to me that because of all the trauma of my childhood there
was much congestion in that area, unseating the chakra, as a protective
device. For several days
one of them returned nightly to help me clear out the congestion. Barbara
Brennan's
book Hands of Light has muchabout chakra repair.
Thanks Graham for all of your wonderful input.
It seems to me that as a group we have discussed the 2 lower chakras and now
I sense solar plexus problems emerging as some try to control the discussion
in various ways. This seems to be a natural evolutionto me. After all
individuals must clear the blocks starting at the base and working up. Since
this is a group on 'K' it seems inevitable that the group will have to do the
same.
Eventually we will get to the heart and higher chakras. We just have to be
patient and keep a sense of humor while we go through this process.
Love Jule
[15] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Prayer
I always send love and light only to any prayer situation. Even though we
desire healing in the body, death can be a healing for some. Others may not
improve because they are still learning something useful from the situation.
I was ill for 10 years and many prayed, but the illness persisted. However
it allowed me to go
deep within and examine myself and purify a lot of ugly "stuff". As a result
I experienced 'K' , not because I meditated or followed any guru, but
apparently because I cleansed my system of the blocks.
[16] From: Pat Welsh
Subject: ISSSEEM address
As promised: the address for the International Society for the Study of
Subtle Energies and Energy Medicine*
ISSSEEM
356 Goldco Circle
Golden, CO 80403
USA
(303) 278-2228
fax: (303) 279-3539
* I found the listing for the 6th Annual ISSSEEM Conference ("Evolution of a
New Paradigm: Science and Inner Experience," June 21-24 1996 in Boulder,
CO), in the premier issue of "PEER Perspectives: Expanding Awareness of
Extraordinary Experiences"--put out by Dr. John Mack's group, (Program for
Extraordinary Experience Research)
PEER
1493 Cambridge Street
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 497-2667
fax: -0122
[17] From: SYL228ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Prayer
As I was saying when my computer rudely interupted me and sent my mail in mid
sentence as it were-----
There can be reasons we don't understand why prayer is not answered the was
we think it should be. Some folks even say they want to be healed, but don't
really.
That is why I always send love and light.
Love amplifies whatever is going on with the person at the spiritual level
and allows things to play out as they should without our imposing our own
ideas of what ought to happen.
I've seen this method work wonders in all kind of situations.
This mantra - prayer helps me visualize what is needed.
May the light of God surround you,
The love of God enfold you,
The power of God protect you,
The presence of God watch over you,
And wherever you are may God be.
Love to all, Jule