Date: Sun, 14 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest	Volume 96 : Issue 52 
[1] From: Wendy 
Subject: Thanks

Thanks to those who responded with information about 'blowing out' the third
eye.  

The actual circumstances of this were quite some time ago, and I'd never
heard the term before.  I was at an appointment with my healing
practictioner/chiropractor and she told me I had 'blown out my third eye'
and asked me what I'd been doing.  As soon as she said it, I knew INSTANTLY
when it had happened and what was going on at the time it ocurred.  And even
the thoughts that were a precursor to it happening.

She treated me for it and didn't seem overly concerned about it.  I knew
nothing about kundalini, very little about chakras, etc when this was going
on.  It was a totally spontaneous thing.  I wasn't trying, nor have I ever
since tried, to release kundalini or practiced any form of meditation or
other practices to do so.

The responses I got here were interesting and different.  Graham, thanks for
all the detailed info.  Of course, your comments were based upon an
assumption that this was something that happened as a result of some attempt
to increase kundalini release.  I also received an email from one of you
that explained this as something 'desirable'  and that can be
'achieved' via certain guided practices.  

All grist for the mill and I truly appreciate any and all input/feedback on
this and other aspects of kundalini.  

I'm not sure if I ever 'healed' properly Graham.  Sounds like a great
excuse to call in sick ......so I'll have to learn more about aspects of
the third eye and kundalini before I can 'judge' this for myself from other
experiences I've had since that time.  I do know that the feeling/sensation
was extremely powerful and I felt as if I'd crossed over to a completely
different place/reality.  I was kind of spaced out for days afterwards.  It
happened while I was writing (to a friend...creative writing
stuff...).....and many other experiences have come to me in this way (while
writing).

Oh, and btw, Graham, no I wasn't using any drugs at the time.  Or now

Thanks again,

         Wendy
         URL: http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
          Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
                  - David Wilcox
__________________________

	Language is a virus from outer space.	
		 William Burroughs
__________________________			


[2] From: Graham Dumpleton 
Subject: Re: A Final Message Before I Go

David A. Katz wrote:
> This will probably be my last message to the group (a great cheer goes
> up from the crowd!).  I have waited and waited for someone, anyone, to
> take a stand with me on this issue but noone has.  To say I am in the
> minority is far more than an understatement.

Why have poeople joined this mailing list? When I joined recently,
I felt I was doing it because I might be able to learn new things about
the process of Kundalini. In joining the mailing list I was very wary as
I have been on similar spiritual mailing lists before, and they always
seemed to be full of bickering and messages with lots of flowery language,
but in short, not a great deal of useful information or even support for
those seeking it. I almost unbsubscribed from the list before I had even
made a sound. I had been seeking people of like mind, but the people on
this list seemed to be of such diverse types that I felt that it wasn't
what I was looking for after all.

In the end I did start posting, as I found it more upsetting that no one
was attempting to give answers to those for who Kundalini was a new
experience and who were asking questions about it. I knew a little bit
about Kundalini before I first experienced it and I did not experience
any of the detrimental affects which one can experience. Although my
introduction to Kundalini was spontaneous, it was gentle and caused
me no grief. Even so, I still struggled to find anyone to whom
I could relate my experiences and I still do not know of anyone personally
who has had Kundalini experiences. Most of the information which I have
obtained I have done so through reading. This list represents an ideal
opportunity to help people understand the basics of what Kundalini is
about and how to deal with it and yet nearly all of the talk is at such
a high and abstract level I can hardly see how it can be of much use to
people in their day to day lives. By posting, I thought that in time I
may be able to adjust this position, if only a little.

Today though, when thinking about issues of personal development in
relation to a previous mail message I sent, I noticed that although it
wasn't really my intent to necessarily get any response from my comments,
I was still to eager to see if anyone would actually respond. What I was
recognising was my attachment to the message I had sent. It was this
that made me realise that although the list is useful for the helping of
others, it is by far much more valuable as a place to practice ones
spiritual ideals. In particular, it is an ideal opportunity to
practice non attachment. It is the attachment to what we say and a
specific point of view which inflames the ego when someone disagrees with
what we say.

Let us look at this message I am sending. If one boils it down,
all this message is is a bunch of words. As a bunch of words transmitted
over the internet it carries no energy and no emotive force, yet, how
is it that we can appreciate someones words, or worse become angered by
them. It is because when reading what has been said and applying it to
our own understanding and beliefs, it has triggered that emotion within
us. It is not really the other person who has made us angry at all, it
is the interpretation which we have applied to what they have said. Thus,
if someone were to reply to this message and strongly disagree, I really
have no grounds for being upset with the other person as their actual
message isn't the problem but simply how I interpret it.

In order to be able to progress spiritually, it is important to be able
release all attachments, whether that be to objects or to ideas. If we
were not to do this, and were only to seek out like minded people we
would be very lonely. Imagine if a Guru were to take this attitude, there
beliefs and way of thinking would be so much more spiritually advanced
that if they excluded anyone with a different point of view, they would
have no followers at all. Thus it is that I can now truly see that the
diversity of people on this list and the diversity of viewpoints is
worthwhile as it represents a challenge to us as far as practicing the
spiritual ideals which we preach.

I do hope that people may be able to understand this insight
and truly appreciate it. We all too easily give lip service to an idea
without truly understanding it, appreciating it and applying it in
everything we do.

--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)


[3] From: Graham Dumpleton 
Subject: Re: Thanks

Wendy wrote:
> I also received an email from one of you
> that explained this as something 'desirable'  and that can be
> 'achieved' via certain guided practices.

For someone to say to you that this is "desirable", I would have to say
then that we are talking about different things. To willingly damage a
chakra is not something one really wants to pursue. I would be interested
to hear what the other persons interpretation for "blowing out the third
eye" is and if it is equivalent to damaging of a chakra, why they think it
is desirable. I have never once seen in a book or had people I know who
are into healing say that actually causing damage to a chakra is desirable,
it is always the complete opposite.

--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)


[4] From: Wendy 
Subject: clarity

Wish to clarify something from my original msg, having received one from
Graham asking for same.  The other person who wrote me was talking about
opening up the third eye...as a POSITIVE thing, using certain
practices.....not DAMAGING it......  
'Blowing out the 3rd eye', perhaps like other aspects of kundalini?, can be
seen from different eyeballs 

Maybe I'll get the semantics, language, etc down the hard way...by sticking
me eyeball way out in front and having it tripped over 

Thanks Graham.
         Wendy
         URL: http://www.tiac.net/users/wenders
          Don't take advice, take a chance, roll the dice, learn to dance.
                  - David Wilcox
__________________________

	Language is a virus from outer space.	
		 William Burroughs
__________________________			


[5] From: Stevie 
Subject: Re: A Final Message Before I Go

On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, David A. Katz wrote:

> Dear Eveyone,
> 
>     To those I have offended, my sincerest apologies.  Interestingly,
> nothing has been said of  my having been offended.  But this goes hand in
> hand with the notion that anything goes except, God forbid, guidelines.  Oh
> no, you are all saying, we musn't have any guidelines for our discussions.

I'm sorry I haven't commented... I've been laughing!  I wish I could share
that with you over the net... I wish we could laugh together, I mean.

Sincerely,

Stevie


[6] From: Jim Cook 
Subject: From Ancient Egypt

   Hi Everyone,

   Last night I was galavanting around the Internet and I was starting to fall
   asleep when I found this and I suddenly came wide awake.

                        THE EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD

                                             1240 BC
                                    The Papyrus of ANI

                            "I'm Yesterday. I Know To-Day"

   The following chapter might be a referance to Kundalini.
   I don't know. This is my first exposure to Egyptology.

      
   THE CHAPTER OF DRINKING WATER AND OF NOT BEING BURNT
                                                 BY FIRE

   Nu Saith- Hail, Bull of Amentet! I am brought unto thee.
   I am the paddle of Ra Wherewith he transported the Aged Gods.
   Let me neither be burnt up nor destroyed by fire.
   I am Beb, the first borne son of Osiris, to whom every God maketh an
   offering in the Temple of his eye in Anu.
   I am the Divine Heir, The Mighty One, The Great One, The Resting One,
   I have made my name to flourish, Deliver.
   Thou Livest in me (Every Day)

   There is also a chapter titled " The Seven ARITS"
   This might be a reference to the Chakras.

   Maybe I'm way off base. You can check it out at -
   http://www.lysator.liu.se/~drokk/BoD/

   Have Fun!!

   Jim
   


[7] From: Swenson O 
Subject: Muladahara Chakra.

Dear list-members.

Due to the great interest of list-members in the Muladhara
or base of the spine energy centre I decided to send an account
of the personal experience of Dr. Hiroshi Motoyama of the
awakening of that centre.  This account is reprinted from his
book "Theories of the Chakras: Bridge to Higher Consciousness",
(pp 240-241.)

It would be very interesting to get responses from list-members
regarding their personal experiences and how they may have been
similar to, or different to Motoyama's account.  I hope that you
are willing to share this information with the rest of the group.

Love, Omar.
----------------------------------------------------------------


I was twenty-five years old.  My early practice consisted of
getting up at three a.m. every morning, practicing asanas for
about half an hour, and sitting for three or four hours.  The
first part of the meditation was devoted to pranayama, the latter
to concentration on a specific chakra.

Here is the initial method of pranayama I practiced.

Inhale breath (prana) through the left nostril to the lower
abdomen for four seconds.  Hold the prana in the inflated lower
abdomen for eight seconds.  Then raise the kundalini from the
coccyx to the lower abdomen (the svadhishtahna chakra) and
contract the abdominal muscles.  Visualise mixing and unifying
the prana and the kundalini for eight seconds.  Exhale through
the right nostril for four seconds.  One breath cycle, therefore,
takes twenty-four seconds.  Repeat the entire process, inhaling
through the right nostril and exhaling through the left, and so
on, alternately.

I performed this from fourteen to twenty-one times.  After one
or two months, I was able to prolong the period of kumbhaka
(breath retention) to one and a half minutes.  When I
concentrated on the svadhishthana or ajna chakra, worldly
thoughts gradually ceased to enter my mind.  I began to feel my
body and mind fill with an extraordinary amount of energy.

As a result of the practice, my physical and psychological
states began to show changes.  I had often suffered from a
stomach disorder and from an ear discharge.  Also, I had been
quite nervous and adversely affected both physically and
mentally by bad weather.  Within six months after I began yoga,
these problems disappeared.

During continued practice, I began to notice some new sensations.
I had an itchy feeling at the coccyx, a tingling feeling on the
forehead and at the top of the head, and a feverish sensation in
the lower abdomen.  I could hear a sound something like the
buzzing of bees around the coccyx.  In ordinary daily life my
sense of smell became so sensitive that I could not endure
offensive odours.

These conditions continued for two or three months.  One day,
when I was meditating before the altar as usual, I felt
particularly feverish in the lower abdomen and saw there a round
blackish-red light like a ball of fire about explode in the mist
of a white vapour.  Suddenly, an incredible power rushed through
my spine to the top of my head and, though it lasted only a
second or two, my body levitated off the floor a few centimetres.
I was terrified.  My whole body was burning, and a severe
headache prevented me from doing anything all day.  The feverish
state continued for two or three days.  I felt as if my head
would explode with energy.  Hitting myself around the "Brahman
Gate" at the top of the head was the only thing that brought
relief.

This then, was the first time I had experienced the rising of
the kundalini shakti to the top of my head through the sushuma.
I did not experience as much physical or mental difficulty  as
is so often associated with this experience, probably because of
the fortunate fact that my Brahman Gate was already open and the
shakti was able to flow out into the astral dimension.


Motoyama, H. (1981)  "Theories of the Chakras: Bridge to Higher
Consciousness."  Wheaton, Ill. USA:  The Theosophical Publishing
House. pp. 240-241.


[8] From: "Debee L. Thomas" 
Subject: Re: diversity and farewell

On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, katie rose wrote:

> i am not sure why i am bothering to send this as it is my introductory post
> and farewell at the same time.  nevertheless...here it is.
> 
> 
> everyone on the list has their own experience and level of understanding and
> that means myriad different opinions and feelings and understandings are
> held about a given topic. i certainly have my own strong feelings and
> opinions, so some posts i like/agree with or dislike/disagree with, some
> uplift me, disappoint me, puzzle me, bore me etc etc. but i realize i cannot
> assume that this list will be any different than the world at large where
> diversity is the name of the game.  just because everyone here is interested
> in kundalini doesn't mean that they share similar values or understandings.
> the list is a mixture of people in different places mentally, emotionally,
> spiritually. (and additionally, here there are a great number of strong
> personalities with which to deal.)  participating in a list can be
> enlivening and stimulating, but it can also sometimes be frustrating,
> infuriating, boring etc. in any case, consensus and homogeneity is unlikely
> and also not necessarily desirable in a forum such as this.  short of living
> comfortably with that, there is always the delete key;  and when it gets too
> uncomfortable, then the delete key may no longer suffice and it could be
> time for some individuals to take a break or move on.  in my case
> "uncomfortable" means that at this time the list does not feel like a good
> fit, not that it is bad in any sense.
> 
> when something on the list is not according to one's tastes, it might be
> helpful to remember that  "this, too, shall pass".  putting people down
> and/or criticizing them and their ideas has probably never changed a single
> mind or heart.  and feeding the dragon (metaphorically speaking) only makes
> him/the topic grow stronger.
> 
> of course, the preoccupation with the current topic and the number of
> charged responses it has generated, certainly indicates how powerful an
> energy focus it is for many at this time. and in that light, no doubt it is
> relevant to the list as it is at this moment.
> 
> katie rose
> 
>            *******************
>                               katie rose
>                            ravenATNOSPAMsedona.net
> 
> "Love is the reflection of God's unity in the world of duality.  It
> constitutes the entire significance of creation."   (Meher Baba)
> 

Katie, you've spoken what I feel and believe with all my heart.  It is 
the vast differences which make us so unique and at the same time, gives 
us a unique experience.  If we keep in mind that we are ALL the SAME on 
the INSIDE, we have half the battle won already.  Please reconsider, and 
stay with the list.  You have things you can share which will be very 
close to what another is experiencing or has experienced.  That person 
will be the one you can totally connect with.  As for the rest, it will 
happen in time.  I plead with everyone to set aside for a moment, the 
differences on the outside, and focus on the sameness on the inside.  
This is the one truth that nothing can change.  Not another person, not 
our personal experience for IT leads and guides us and keeps us united as 
brothers and sisters of the ONE God.

Blessed Be

Debee


[9] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Body massage and energy and more

I was asking myself the very same question. I've got over the physical 
symptoms that were scary to me before I could talk about them on this list. 
By chance, looking for some store, I found a new age bookstore and got inside 
hoping to find something on the subject of kundalini. There was only one 
book, but I'm more than 2/3 through and I find it most interesting. The book 
is "Third eye and Kundalini" by B.S. Goel (Third Eye Fondation of India), who 
went through the kundalini and the opening of his third eye spontaneously. 
What's interesting is that he tells about his physical symptoms at first, 
then goes on relating his own spiritual transformation. He became enlightned 
in this life and tells about the utimate goal of detachment from anything 
mental or physical and becoming one with God.

It seems this process can take several lives to accomplish it's goal.

There is one point that he brought up and it helped me with the concept of 
universal love. I found it difficult to love certain people around me and I 
tried hard. He said that the guru-God is present in the third eye of all 
people and that even if those people can't see Him there, we should love them 
because the guru-God is in them. Makes sense to me.


Love to all.

PS: this book is on the list of books suggested on the Shared Transformation 
homepage.



>>
>>Yesterday was my birthday and my wife got me surprise.  My first
>>professional massage.
>>I couldn't belive how great it made me feel.  My energy was realy
>>circulating when she was done and a few
>>strange things happened along the way.
>>[snip]
>>3. About halfway through the massage I experience a bright blue flash.
> Lots
>>of people talk about white lights and flashes, but what does this mean?
>>4. I was fealing really relaxed when she was working my feet near the
> end, I
>>saw images of me and my brother mike when we were younger.  They would
> just
>>float by.
>>
>>When she was done, my energy felt incredible and I wanted to start
> laughing.
>> I did a little and had to hold back from cracking up.  I've heard that
>>Kundalini makes people really laugh some times, and this is what I felt
> like
>>doing.  It was wild.
>>
>>What a great present!
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>John Halonen
>
>dear john and other list members,
>
>i recently joined the list and have been observing posts for a while.  here
>is my question:  all life is energy, do we agree on that?  if that is so,
>then how is it that on the list certain experiences we have are deemed
>"kundalini" (e.g., laughing after a good massage) and others are not?
>personally, i would be more comfortable talking about Energy and
>Transformation rather than specifically labelling so many broad happenings
>as "kundalini".  it seems that with some people there is a strong
> attachment
>to the word _per se_ and to the particular phenomena of the process.  what
>interests me is where it is all going--the journey of transformations from
>self to Self.  the ego can really latch onto those lights and sensations
>along the way and then they have the potential to become real distractions
>from the true goal.  i do not intend to be critical here, just sharing some
>observations and hoping to stimulate some responses and new avenues to
>explore on the list.
>
>
>regards,
>
>katie rose
>
>*********
>*
>*******
>                                    katie rose
>                                 ravenATNOSPAMsedona.net
>
>"Love is the reflection of God's unity in the world of duality.  It
>constitutes the entire significance of creation."   (Meher Baba)
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


[10] From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: introduction/chi theory

I agree with Gloria. I sensed a lot of emotional turmoil around the question 
of sex and K. I had some manifestations of the lower chakras at one point, 
but I took it for what it is: something you need to experience before you can 
move up to higher frequencies. Perhaps this is why people experience a higher 
sex drive in the beginning of the K, not later. To me sex is not a spiritual 
experience with God, it's a beautiful way of expressing love between earthly 
partners.


>Von,
>Hang in there, this is just the illusion showing itself strong. Isn't it
> neat
>how the frequencies changed here, did everyone notice how on edge many
>became. This is the power from those three lower chakra, add thoughts,
>emotions, desire, and this is the frequency. Not right or wrong, but
>interesting, isn't it? Gloria
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


 
[11] From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Kundalini, of course!

Hello everybody!

I'm relatively new to this list, and therefore I have only listened
quiet ly to other messages for several days. However, since I am not at
all new to the subj ect of kundalini (since I have experienced its first
controlled rising 14 years ago and I have been working without any
accident with other people on it for the last 12 years), I would like to
post some introductory observations:

1. This list does not seem to have escaped the "New Age"(?!)
misconceptions concerning kundalini, the chakra-s, and spiritual
awakening in general. Some of the most blatant of them date as long ago
as from the Theosophical Society's works upon the s ubject (e. g.
spinning chakra-s, svadhishthana chakra placed in the spleen-area
instead of the lower belly, manipura chakra placed in the solar plexus
instead of the na vel, anahata chakta placed into the heart instead of
the middle of the chest, ajna chakra placed between the eyebrows
instead of the middle-forehead, etc.) Others are the work of more modern
epigones (e.g. the colours of the rainbow phantasmagorically ascri bed
one by one to the chakra-s, etc.).

        Maybe the most often perpetuated error however concerning
kundalini is the modern fear of the "spontaneous" or "involuntary"
rising of kundalini (as a kind of occult bogeyman), by virtue of which a
lot of people call themselves "kun dalini victims". In this trend, all
kind of daily phenomena or pathological mani festations come to be
pretentiously called "kundalini risings": from epileptic seizures t o
orgasms, and from fits of hysteria to shizofrenic hallucinations. While
it may sometimes be true that some phenomena (e.g. the orgasm,
according to the Tantric tradition) disp lay *remote echoes* of a
kundalini movement, to make them (and all the rest of the st uff evoked
above) *equivalent* with a kundalini rising is a bitter mistake. If this
was indeed true, the whole mystery of kundalini could be reduced to some
gross physiology, while the witness of the sages and yogis of yore who
have worked hardly for 10- 30 years to obtain a true kundalini
experience would just make them a bunch of fools who have wasted their
time with inefficient methods (while they could have had so much fun,
right?:-)

        From practical experience, I can report that in over 12 years of
working with people over the matter of kundalini shakti and its rising,
I have encountered lots who have presented themselves as "kundalini
victims", but there was *NOT EVEN A SINGLE ONE* who was not a mere
pathologic case and therefore whose problem could not been solved by
the methods of traditional medicine! In all these years I have only
once heard of *one* case that has been proved *conclusively* to be a
true case of spontaneous kundalini rising, and this was not because of
lack of contact with the public -- I have taught even *groups* of 200
plus students in kundalini yoga!

        I hope that some people out there can still preserve their sense
of humor as well as the common sense, and realise that all these
statements are not a matter of putting anybody down, neither of
bragging, but of putting things in the right perspective through the
Tradition and personal experience.


2. When dealing with kundalini, almost nobody seems to realise that the
Tradition clearly explains that there is not *one* kundalini, but
*seven* different branches of kundalini -- one for each "body". Thus, it
is perfectly possible to exper ience the rising of kundalini
*distinctly* in various layers of the being. That is why, not everybody
who will have a kundalini rising (or will even reach a state of samadhi
= enlightenment (roughly)) will necessarily experience *physical* or
*etheric* symptoms of kundalini -- which are the most "spectacular"
ones, but also the most gro ss and useless. The opposite is also true:
while one may have enormous (or devastating) p hysical effects from
kundalini (e.g. for the unprepared ones: spontaneous explosion of the
blood-vessels in various areas of the body, short-circuiting of the
spinal marrow, para lysis, instant death), this does not at all show
that they will get any spiritual or par anormal effect out of it.

        A lot of people in the West have been fascinated by Gopi
Krishna's personal accounts of kundalini rising (taking them as letter
of the law) and by his attempts to rationalise the phenomenon and
*conveniently* reduce it to its physiological support; yet very few
know that in the hard-core Yogic circles from India, Gopi Krishna was
known not only as being a superficial amator, but also to have
eventually admitted that his kundalini-dabbling has resulted in
disasters both for himself and for his family, and to have regretted of
ever having begun to deal and write about this (source: Swami Gitananda,
Pondicherry, India). That is why it would be better to pick up the
genuine kundalini information from the true traditional texts and from
the compet ent Masters (Ramakrishna, Shivananda, Yogananda)...


With the hope that those written above have not offended anybody and
that they will be taken at their true value -- of genuine information
in the field -- I wil l now conclude with the promise to answer to all
those interested in further information . Flaming will not be answered,
since it surpasses my mailing capacity. :-) Spiritually yours,

Natha Bhaktyananda
K=F8bmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668