Date: Fri, 12 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 48 [1] From: Niles Rodrick
Subject: Re: Sex and Kundalini - MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE IN THIS FORUM David, I too speak from 'experience', Niles
[2] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: sex and K Hi: Richard I'll have to take David side on this issue. No one mentioned Melissa's remarks being a little strong. Can you now understands why I mentioned personalities in a previous post to you? Von
[3] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Discussion of sexual activity. Hi: Omar You said: >I suggest that the kundalini energy can be used to stimulate whatever energy centre in the body and because of the ease of which the sexual energies can be aroused the flow of energy is the greatest to this particular centre. I see this as an aspect of working with the kundalini energy but by no means a high aspect. I would go so far as to say that this is the lowest aspect in which the kundalini energy manifests.< Very good point! The reason the sex issue is most important now is just because that is equivalent to the lower Charkra and that is were are lot people are centered at this time, as you can see. I also would like to discuss the higher charkras. As always, Von
[4] From: Iver Juster
Subject: Re: Gods Amoung Us (cats) Lori Your post about cats made me smile. I have two cats. They are so beautiful, grounded, and loving. I don't smoke, drink, get high, overeat, etc...when I feel I need a quick diversion or release, I hold my cats. They give me love. They have been with me through severe migraines, kundalini challenges, and other stressful situations. I think of them as my outlet. They ground me, like shock absorbers. I am eternally grateful that I have such a healthy, beautiful, healing energy around me available to me at any moment with their unconditional love. They seem to know when I need them. Magically, they will appear by my side and to offer comfort. They have been there for me always through thick and thin. Yay, cats! Best, Patti > >
[5] From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: mail failed, returning to sender Niles wrote: "I too speak from experience", I do not doubt your experience, but I do doubt the value of that line of discussion in this forum. As I said, the path is valid, but this is not the setting for it. It requires one on one guru-disciple transmission and guidance(in person). I think alot of folks can get very lost in self-indulgence if this line of discussion continues. I guess we will agree to disagree on the matter of orgasm = samadhi? No problem. Anything is possible, I suppose. Namaste Niles. --David :)
[6] From: cmwithATNOSPAMcris.com (Michelle Withers)
Subject: Re: Sex and Kundalini - MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE IN THIS FORUM Dear Niles and all, Michelle here. Niles was saying... > The most intense experience anyone can have is the sexual orgasm, for >in that moment we transcend to the state of Samadi....... I am afraid I disagree with this statement, and I really hadn't wanted to jump into this discussion again, but I will use it as a segway into another subject... For me the experience of an orgasm is totally different from my spiritual experiences. My spiritual experiences are of a much higher frequency, and have MUCH more information to be received than in a sexual orgasm. First of all - I really don't like discussing my sex life with anyone other than my husband and I don't think it is right to be discussing such private experiences in public like this, it makes me very squeemish, but I just couldn't let this go... The difference is VAST. An orgasm is a mear glimpse into a state of being, where as a true spiritual joining is filled with layer upon layer of understanding, sight, communication and symbolism. The love may be of the same quality and deepness of love, but.....:) talking with heaven and seeing angels, or spirits - whatever :) FAR exceeds a mear orgasm. And I do have good sex - although I don't feel the need to defend myself to you all, I can discuss, and experiment freely with my husband, and my husband alone. I have never tried to link my spiritual experiences with my private experience with my husband - to me there is no link - it mearly a very satisying and fun way to fool around with my hubby :) Lets see what responses I get for being so bold. :) Michelle
[7] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Discussion of sexual activity. Hi: John Very good point. In a message dated 96-07-12 09:40:01 EDT, you write: << Exactly, this kundalini and pranic energy are related to the sexual organs and the first two chakras are based in that area, but most of the posts have not dealt with what to do with this energy to help raise the kundalini. >> Von
[8] From: "Debee L. Thomas"
Subject: Re: Important topics of discussion Thank you for your post George. It reminded me of something I read in the Osho Neo cards concerning sex and is very near a part of your message. Here is what Osho says concerning sex. "Let sex be the first step, but not the last." When two lovers are in deep sexual orgasm, they melt into each other; then the woman is no more the woman, the man is no more the man. They become just like the circle of yin and yang, reaching into each other, meeting into each other, melting, forgetting their own identities. That's why love is so beautiful. This state is called mudra...and the final state of orgasm with the whole is called muhamudra -- the great orgasm. Orgasm is a state where your body is no longer felt as matter; it vibrates like energy, electricity. It vibrates so deeply, from the very foundation, that you completely forget that it is a material thing. It becomes an electric phenomenon--and it is an electric phenomenon. And by and by, if they love each other, and they surrender to each other, they surrender to this moment of pulsation, of being energy, and they are not scared... When the body loses boundaries, when the body becomes like a vaporous thing, when the body evaporates substantially and only energy is left, a very subtle rhythm, you find that it is as if you are not. Only in deep love can one move into it. Love is like death: you die as far as you think you are a body, you die as far as your material image is concerned, you die as a body and you evolve as energy, vital energy. And when the partners start vibrating in a rhythm, the beats of their hearts and bodies come together, it becomes a harmony..then they are two no more. Now they are a circle and they vibrate together, they pulsate together. Their hearts are no longer separate, their beats are no longer separate; they have become a melody, a harmony. It is the greatest music possible; all other musics are just faint things compared to it, shadow things compared to it. When the same thing happens not with another person but with the whole existence, then it is mahamudra. Then it is the great orgasm. --Tantra: The supreme understanding Blessed Be Debee
[9] From: jetATNOSPAMbbs.backdoor.com
Subject: seizures Lori: I also experience seizures. When my kundalini awakening first occurred, I too would wake up every morning with my whole body shaking uncontrollably. I believe that your seizures could very well be kundalini related. It's a very powerful energy we're dealing with! I don't wake up shaking anymore, but I do still have seizures from time to time. Over the years I've learned to flow with them better, not fight them so much. Fortunately, I don't go unconscious with them. Acupuncture helped me a great deal. It took a while for me to find the right acupuncturist for me. Did you know there are a number of different kinds of acupuncture? I've found five-element acupuncture best for me. I wish you well. James.
[10] From: dexterATNOSPAMu.arizona.edu (H. Jack Dexter, Ph.D.)
Subject: Swan2 Greetings to everyone, First, thanks to all who responded to my earlier post "Swan Song" both privately and through the list. I found the comments thoughtful, supportive and challenging. Oddly enough, giving up my subscription to the list was taken care of providentially. My host here (for whatever reason) began bouncing my kundalini-list email back and the automatic kundalini listserver removed me from the list. I guess all is well that ends well. I will not be able to read any response to this post through the group, but I hope it is found useful. After reading some of the responses I felt as if my message was not understood completely, so I will try again to express my theme. My purpose in writing is not to critique the value of other peoples' experiences or participation, as much as it is to offer my interpretation of a broader perspective on kundalini and the meaning of the path. For those who have had struggles trying to figure out how to meditate, or what meditation can offer perhaps the following can assist you. Think back to any moment of all-encompassing joy you have experienced. Perhaps it was looking upon the face of a small child or baby and then suddenly realizing that those angelic eyes were looking at you with abject devotion and adoration. Perhaps it was the first time you experienced the depth of caring you have for your mate that transcended any act of making love or sensory-bound communication. Maybe it was being engulfed and overpowered by the natural beauty of a sunset, summer rain or the silent morning after a heavy snow. Regard your state of being within that moment. The overpowering emotion of love drives all thoughts from your mind. Knees want to buckle, butterflies flit in your stomach and you may want to succumb to great wracking sobs of ecstasy. We respond this way perhaps because the physical body and the ego-bound mind are unprepared to handle the immensity of the experience or the energy it unleashes. If you know such an event, then, in my estimation, you achieved a very advanced state of meditation in that brief instant. Now imagine having that state of mindless ecstasy lasting for a whole second--a whole minute--a whole hour. Pretty phenomenal power! I think a whole minute would pretty much destroy me for good. Yet, my understanding of the raising of kundalini is that she is preparing us for a _life_time_ , indeed an eternity, of living in that state of all-illuminating consciousness. Under those conditions, one has certainly "died" to the life of the flesh, and has been born into an everlasting light. The socially-defined "I" is thoroughly destroyed by the dissolution of self into that all encompassing power of love and unconditional acceptance. During meditations I am sometime fortunate enough to allow my being fall, without analysis or effort, into the state of unthinking openness, gratitude and thanks . If that state appears I know there was nothing I did to create it--it may be a natural outcome of totally entrusting one's being to a state of grace. One has only to let go enough to allow it to happen. It never occurs by mental activity--by trying to think of, or do, nothing--but always emerges in that instant of unconscious awareness between thoughts. So the quieter the mind, the more opportunities there are for "between-thought" moments when kundalini can do her work. It is this eventuality that urges me to express my concern for the importance one gives to the physical and mental symptoms of kundalini--and the need for sharing those symptoms. These need to be framed constantly in full awareness of their relative significance to the power behind them. By this, I am not suggesting that sharing and questions about other's experiences not be pursued. I am suggesting only that, as in all aspects of life, that a detachment from the socially-defined self (ego) be constantly sought, because it is the ego alone that anoints symptoms with significance. My appreciation for the power of kundalini grows with every meditation. I, like many others, have longed to get on with it and go. But the insight given to me to regard the explosive power of peak experiences as that which is also the transforming energy of kundalini has tempered my desire. I am not ready for a full unleashing, but I am preparing for it. I think am being prepared by kundalini herself. Perhaps the only response necessary to an awareness of heat in the hands and feet is to try and welcome it with mindless gratitude and trust that those fires are burning for a good reason--and then give it as little attention as possible. Perhaps all that is necessary is to allow the energy-guided rocking of the body and the movements of the hands soon to pass unnoticed during meditations. Only each individual can decide his or her response to the manifestations of kundalini, which is how it must be. I only stress the need for for weighing the importance of experience, because the ego is a supreme trickster and will sidetrack the best of intentions at every opportunity--even opportunities presented by kundalini herself. So, yes, by all means keep the dialogue alive within this discussion group. I would not be considering my own journey to this degree without it. My caution is this, however, the moment you feel like you need an email fix (as I have), or find you anticipate reading what others are saying about your comments (as I have), then it may be time to consider the implications of participation against the ultimate realization of kundalini enlightenment. She will not appear within any state of mental activity. Spiritual materialism, as was mentioned in a response to my earlier post, is as addictive as any other form of materialism. To the ego, spiritual materialism--because it focuses the mind on spiritual issues--is the perfect foil to keep the seeker away from his or her ultimate union with the Divine. My best to you, Jack
[11] From: Karol Ann Barnett
Subject: Re: Sex and Kundalini - MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE IN THIS FORUM I hope the males online will involve themselves in my question: Isn't your desire for sex, ultimately, your longing to reconnect with the feminine energy? The Goddess? Do you receive a sense of wholeness after completion? Karol Ann
[12] From: Mary Knapp
Subject: Re: Body massage and energy and more Katie rose wrote: > interests me is where it is all going--the journey of ansformations from > self to Self. the ego can really latch onto those lights and sensations > along the way and then they have the potential to become real > distractions from the true goal. i do not intend to be critical here, > just sharing some observations and hoping to stimulate some responses > and new avenues to explore on the list. I would sy my lights, and I do think of them as MY lights, and other manifestations of spirit in my life are the farthest thing from ego attachment. They keep me on the lookout for the spiritual. If I go a day without "lights" it has usually been a day that I have been mired in lowly concerns and habits. If my body fails to tremble at bed time it usually indicates that I have spent less time in open meditation than I usually do. The Course in Miracles referrs to something it calls "Holy Instants" and says Heaven is when one experiences no time or space between these Holy Instants. My lights seem to be outward manifestations of Holy Instants. To detach from them would mean to give up my higher thoughts and feelings as that is what produces them. Rather than distractions I see them as indicator lights that mark the way. And that's how it is for me anyway... Mary
[13] From: Mary Knapp
Subject: Re: Chi theory David wrote in part > You also said, "... pleasure is part of living and we can (through it) > >find right relationship with all of life." I will respond by saying that > pleasure is part of living alright, but so is pain, and to indulge in one is > to necessarily suffer the other. As for finding the right relationship with > all of life, kundalini rising enables a relationship with God, above and > beyond the deluding 5 senses and the bainful pairs of opposites. I thought > that was what this discussion group was all about? Have I stumbled into a > Freudian thread? Can we at least reach up to the level of Jung? Please?! > > As for offending you, sorry. It is not my intent to offend, but simply > to get us back on track. We are definitely WAY off track now. If you and > others cannot see that then maybe I should move on to greener pastures. I > have no desire to continue watching this great discussion group self-destruct.> > > --David > > Please accept that some of us have chosen to stay in physical form, David, and in doing so must cope with all 5 senses and the late 20th century as well. We want to blend our spiritual natures with our physical nature so as to fill certain purposes. Which list would you have us join? Mary
[14] From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: sex and K Hi: Karol Ann > There is beauty where there is unglyness. > There is life where there is death. > There is love where there is lust. > There is enlightenment where there is suffering. > > Thanks for sharing this with us, George > -------------------------------------------------------------- You also said: >I hope all of you are beginning to see the great potential in this list as mentioned in the poem above. Ok, maybe it's not what you had in mind in the beginning, but maybe you can help make the list more loving with your presence. We are all striving to be more....< If there was only beauty then no one could see it and no one would appreciate it. There always must be death, ugliness, lust and suffering or we would have nothing to compare with. If a person was stuck in a room with no lights for 20 years. To that person he must feel like he was in heaven when he gets out. To another person that had everything in life he may think life is meaningless because he did not know suffering. So what you say has a lot of meaning. Isn't' the lotus plant stuck in the mud (suffering), but is reaching straight up out to the sun ( happiness). We can also do it. Take care, Von
[15] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Sex and Kundalini - MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE IN THIS FORUM Karol Ann Barnett wrote: > Isn't your desire for sex, ultimately, your longing to reconnect with the > feminine energy? The Goddess? Do you receive a sense of wholeness after > completion? How would one know. Who out there can genuinely say they can discriminate differences in different types of energies to the point of being able to say that one energy is feminine and one is masculine? Some may claim so, and they truly may detect a difference, but where is the yardstick against which to measure what the energy is really representative of. It is all very much a subjective experience which only has meaning to the individual and can only be measured against other experiences which the individual has had. The "longing to reconnect" can't really be said to be in conjunction with the feminine energy but simple a desire to re-experience a state which may have been attained previously which gave pleasure and a sense of fulfillment or completeness. To target such a state though is only restrictive as it binds you to that level of experience and ultimately could block you from experiencing something even more profound. In other words, you can put a name to it if you wish and say that it is the feminine energy, but what happens when you surpass that experience, what name do you then give it. It is all an experience of energy, and as you work with it you will experience it at different levels and in different forms. It will always be changing. -- Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[16] From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Re: Chi theory >> >> David wrote in part > You also said, "... pleasure is part of living and >>we can (through it) > >find right relationship with all of life." I will >>respond by saying that > pleasure is part of living alright, but so is >>pain, and to indulge in one is > to necessarily suffer the other. As for >>finding the right relationship with > all of life, kundalini rising >>enables a relationship with God, above and > beyond the deluding 5 senses >>and the bainful pairs of opposites. I thought > that was what this >>discussion group was all about? Have I stumbled into a > Freudian thread? >>Can we at least reach up to the level of Jung? Please?! > > As for >>offending you, sorry. It is not my intent to offend, but simply > to get >>us back on track. We are definitely WAY off track now. If you and > >>others cannot see that then maybe I should move on to greener pastures. I >>> have no desire to continue watching this great discussion group >>self-destruct.> > > --David > > >> >>Please accept that some of us have chosen to stay in physical form, David, >>and in doing so must cope with all 5 senses and the late 20th century as >>well. We want to blend our spiritual natures with our physical nature so >>as to fill certain purposes. Which list would you have us join? >> >>Mary ---------------------------------------------->> >>Dear Mary, > > I am not asking anyone to leave this list, I am asking the blatantly worldly topic of sex to leave. If it does not, I will leave. > > --David