Date: Fri, 12 Jul kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 46
[1] From: georgevATNOSPAMeor.com (georgev)
Subject: Re: re: Important topics of discussion
Lots of my kundalini ideas come from my own problems. I really didn't
realize what what happening to me when I my kundalini experiences
started to happen. I looked everywhere except in kundalini related
subjects trying to find what validation to what I was experiencing.
Also much of the problems that I had at the time I had to create my own
solutions.
Here is one on my solutions that I created for the problem of overt
sexual attraction. For me I would become very horny and it also made me
suffer greatly because I didn't know what to do with that emotion. I
know that I tried to hold it back but it also cut my creative energies
too.
I know that many people have problems with sex because of a error in
their sexual system. Since popular sex is the example of misconduct it
promotes that idea. So people try to avoid this problem without dealing
or salving it. Right sex requires the right conduct to create it also
requires c & r. So much of sex is motivated by lust of the result funny
that much of success in America is also based on this focus on the
result and not the creation of the process and quality of action.
Love: You give what you want.
Lust: You take what you can get.
Developing conscious & responsible requires letting go of the need to
focus on the result and replacing it with the observance on what can be
improved on. Sex can be very fun even without the need of a physical
orgasm. In Taoist sex they develop the experience and not the orgasm
for they believe that the orgasm wastes the life energy. In some ways
it does. It can because since sex is physical and that takes energy so
does the orgasm. I know that right after a ejaculation I feel like
going to bed.
I have read in a Taoist book that if you have sex without the physical
orgasm you can have sex more times a day because you don't exert as
much energy as orgasm sex does and you also can avoid pregnancy because
of no ejaculation.
Getting back to the conscious & responsible this comes from letting go
and learning how to observe other possible orgasms that you might
overlook during meditation. After you still your self you will get
insights into mental and spiritual orgasms. It is kind of like taking a
class in gardening and then trying out what you learned. Sex is still
very important weather it is with a person or masturbation because you
start to get insights to having sex in different ways and also feeling
more freer with your own sexual self.
I use mental and spiritual sexual visual/mediation to develop creative
flow with my clients. I convert the sexual love into conscious &
responsible mental/spiritual love so that I can flow with my shoots and
prefect them. Visual/mediation is a great area to test out ideas before
you try them in real time.
georgev
[2] From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Re: sex and K
Melissa,
Your wrote:
"First of all, I have not gotten the impression that the discussion of
>orgasms and the like are intended to generate better sex--I sort of felt
>that the spiritual aspects via the physical were a given, and the info
>was to help people with some problems sexually/spiritually, and to help
>people perfect the physical acts of sex and orgasm IN ORDER TO reach a
>higher spirituality. That's what I saw."
You saw wrong, so I quote the intitial post on chi by Stevie:
"Practicing non-ejaculation requires such incredible discipline, and yet I
am very aware that it is the key for the male to remain healthy and to
become even more sexual virile as time unfolds."
>
>You also wrote: "Von, I found your post very offensive, though it does not
concern me
>directly."
Is it offensive to note when a debasing element has been allowed full and
unrestricted entry into the thread? I think Von was right on target. As
long as soil remains outside ones house it can be called "soil". The moment
it enters into ones house it becomes "dirt". This line of discussion, quite
frankly, is dirt and should be removed. It holds the pretense of
spirituality (soil) but is, in fact, nothing but vicarious forays into
images and thoughts that can only be categorized as lust (dirt). You
cannot point out one Self-Realized being who so indulged him/herself or
his/her disciples, not one.
>
Lastly, for what its worth, I found your response to Von "offensive".
And I'm beginning once again to think Richard (and I some time ago) was
right about holding a strict reign over the topics under discussion.
--David
[3] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Important topics of discussion
Time to jump in. For those not liking the direction this thread has been
taking you might like to tune out. I will however eventually get to the
point of how this all relates to Kundalini and energy in general. Any
women out there who feel I am wrongly representing your gender and what
you experience in sex and what you like in sex, feel free to correct me
as I am always open to learning more. I only hope that what I have to
relate balances things a bit. Up till now the discussion seems to have
been very much focused only on what the male can achieve for himself.
georgev wrote:
> In Taoist sex they develop the experience and not the orgasm
> for they believe that the orgasm wastes the life energy. In some ways
> it does. It can because since sex is physical and that takes energy so
> does the orgasm. I know that right after a ejaculation I feel like
> going to bed.
The experience for whom? Please do not forget, and I do not think I have
seen anyone emphasise this, is that sex is a shared experience between you
and are your partner. A more important reason for ejaculation control is
not to conserve male energy but to allow you to last longer. Do you think
your partner will be happy if you are all over and done with and asleep
within ten minutes? How different is your partner likely to feel if you
can stay awake for much longer, long enough that she is able to become
fully aroused and tuned into her own body and the pleasurable sensations
she is capable of experiencing?
I am not just talking about the need to satisfy a woman as far as being
able to ensure she reaches the point of an orgasm. For the majority of
men, their orgasm may be all that is important, however, this is not the
case for women. For women, a considerable amount of pleasure can be
derived from what happens before and after an orgasm. For some women
the need to have an orgasm may not even be seen as absolutely necessary,
although, if it does happen, it adds even more to the experience. It seems
to be a product of time that men expect that a woman must experience an
orgasm or they will not be satisfied. All that such an attitude will
produce is anxiety on the part of the woman to perform. A woman must be
able to feel that they are totally supported and in a safe environment in
which they can experience whatever they desire. Most importantly, they
must feel they are loved and that you are there for them as much, if not
more, as you are there for yourself. Only then will she be able to open up
fully to receiving from you and fully absorb herself in the energy which
flows between you and reach a state of ecstasy.
The goal therefore is not whether you can abstain from ejaculating, but
for you to develop a loving relationship with your partner to a point
that within sex you are totally open to each other, thus allowing the
free flow of the male and female energies between you in such a way as
to bring about a balancing within both of you. In being able to reach
this point, whether you loose semen through ejaculation is not important
as your partner will be able to absorb the male energy you loose. To
compensate for this loss of energy you absorb her female energy. The
nature of sex and the energy which is generated is such that in this
exchange you both can end up feeling more elevated than when you start.
You can also feel more complete within yourself because of the better
balance within the male and female energy within your own body.
Because of the close tie between sexual energy and the Kunadalini,
if you are your partner have had Kundalini experiences, what you
experience as a result of sex could even reach toward the state of bliss
oft mentioned. This is because the energy generated during sex can be
enough to trigger the Kundalini to a higher state. The loving environment
of sex in which this occurs can result in this experience being free
from the perils which can afflict people in the general raising of the
Kundalini. The general feeling of bliss and contentment experienced
by a couple who aren't otherwise experiencing a Kundalini awakening
could be seen as being a temporary activiation of the energy
within them. Thus, even if you aren't consciously aware of the Kundalini
energy being active, you can still have these experiences.
If you are senstive to energies and able to channel them, the experience
of sex and Kundalini can be used for healing your partner. To steal a
phrase from someone else to draw an analogy, sex too often can have
four participants. These are the man and his thoughts and the woman and
her thoughts. If in sex both of you can focus wholey on the experience
and the energy flowing between you, the experience can border on being a
form of meditation. As with meditation, the clarity of mind and elevated
energy can be used in helping to heal your partner. To be able to reach
this level can be truly rewarding for the both of you as it is a measure
of the devotion and the commitment you each have to each other.
A good book to read, which draws on both Tantric and Taoist beliefs
as well as other modes of thought is "Sexual Secrets for Men" by
Kerry and Diane Riley. This book was published in Australia so whether
it has reached elsewhere yet I do not know. A version of the book from
the female perspective is apparently in the works.
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[4] From: Swenson O
Subject: Re: Discussion of sexual activity.
Dear listmembers.
This discussion about sex relative to the kundalini energy has been going
for some while now and I have seen individuals take a stance on both ends
of the spectrum as well as anywhere in between. What I have found
lacking in this discussion is what the supposed objective of controlled
raising of the kundalini energy is, and what happens when the practice
lacks the discipline that is required when dealing with this extremely
potent form of manifested energy.
In my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) the practice of
raising the kundalini as a spiritual practice is a conscious connecting of
heaven and earth, metaphorically speaking. This is supposedly done
through a conscious effort of the will where the kundalini energy is
guided through the bio-magnetic counterpart of the spinal cord.
Through this process the bio-magnetic dross that is supposedly blocking
the free flow of this energy is burnt away and all the energy centres
along the column are vivified into a higher level of functioning. When
this process is successfully completed a clear path between the base of
the spine energy centre and the energy centre at the top of the head is
established.
When this process has taken place successfully what supposedly happens is
that all the energy centres of the body are capable of functioning to
their full capacity, all are processing the information that is their
specific function to carry out. From that level of functioning a high
level of what we could call spiritual abilities become available to the
individual in question.
In an earlier posting I suggested that the kundalini energy is a neutral
energy and that it places no judgement of its use. The responsibility for
directing this energy to whatever use lies with the individual in
question. To name a few it has been suggested that the base of the spine
energy centre is closely related to the creative aspect of individuals
including an individuals sexual activity. The heart centre is supposedly
related to the cultivation of love (compassion) and the top of the head
centre is supposedly related to union with the divine.
I suggest that the kundalini energy can be used to stimulate whatever
energy centre in the body and because of the ease of which the sexual
energies can be aroused the flow of energy is the greatest to this
particular centre. I see this as an aspect of working with the kundalini
energy but by no means a high aspect. I would go so far as to say that
this is the lowest aspect in which the kundalini energy manifests.
For me the benefit of like minded people working together in a
group like this is most importantly in the fact of having access to a
great deal of information on the subject of kundalini, where we as a group
can pool our resources and serve to assist each other in gaining the
greatest level of success in working with the kundalini energy, not being
content with it simply residing in the genital area. For me it is
important to have access to sharing of information about the progression
of the kundalini energy through as many of the energy centres as we are in
a position to discuss, and what the effects of that progression is on the
individual physically, emotionally and mentally.
It is in the hope of having access to this quality of information that I
feel willing to merge myself in the group and share what I can with it.
Through the discussion so far I find myself gaining a bit of information
on the characteristics of base of the spine energy centre. I can hardly
contain my joy regarding expectations of discussions of the other energy
centres if the interest in the current centre is anything to go by, and I
can hardly wait for the discussion to move onto those other energy
centres.
Love, Omar.
[5] From: Graham Dumpleton
Subject: Re: Personal Effects of Kundalini
Another long post from me. In the week I have been lurking on the list
I haven't really seen anyone try and explain the underlying causes of
the effects seen as the resultant of Kundalini awakening, thus I will
try and explain my understanding of it from my reading, personal
experiences, observations and thoughts.
David Pfeffer wrote:
> My name is David Pfeffer and I am new to the list. I came across
> Kundalini from a news group posting. I was wondering about what occurs
> when Kundalini energy begins to "flow" in the body.
> ...
> However, in my spine there has been a tingling sensation
> and I get a lot of body shivers after an exercise. Does someone have
> an idea as to why this occurs?
As the Kundalini travels up the spine it flows through the chakras.
Chakras in the area of the spine, especially the solar plexus, are
associated with major nerve plexus' in the body. Each of these nerve
plexus' are in turn attached to the spinal cord. As the Kundalini moves
through the chakra it stimulates them which in turn stimulates the nerve
plexus result in tingling or other sensations, possibly including
shivering, along the region of the spine.
The problem with trying to describe what is really happening in the
physical body is that there is very little scientific based research on
the issue. This is due to a combination of the scientific establishment
dismissing the whole topic as not being worthy of study due to its
esoteric roots, and the inability of current scientific instruments to
detect the flow of any subtle energies within the human body. One
exception to this is work done by Itzhak Bentov, with the result being
the Bentov model.
A book explaining the Bentov model is "Vibrational Medicine"
by Richard Gerber. The book covers many topics, with Kundalini only
being dealt with in a small section. The remainder of the book can be
quite heavy going, so I wouldn't necessarily rush out and buy it.
However, this is the only book I have seen which tries to describe
what happens in a scientific context. I will try and distill the essence
of what the model describes as being the reason for many of the effects
of a Kundalini awakening.
The Bentov model came about because of Bentov's research of the effect
of long term meditation on the physical body. What he was able to measure
was a series of mirco-oscillations in the body. He hypothesises the
major oscillation is caused due to a standing wave oscillation of the
blood in the major aorta carrying blood away from the heart and up to
the brain. The frequency of this oscillation is about seven hertz and
was seen to occur in deep meditation. The flow on effect of this was to
trigger a whole series of oscillations within the body and especially
the skull. It is suggested that osciallations of the fluid in the skull
cavity were responsible for both acoustical and electrical waves. The
acoustical waves produced in the skull cavity were seen as an explaination
for the internal sounds that meditators often hear. More interesting
is the effect of the electrical stimulation which occurred.
The structure of the brain is such that if you look at a cross section
of the brain, areas corresponding to parts of the body from the toes up
to the head are layed out in sequence. Ie., toes, ankle, knee, hip,
trunk, arm, fingers, neck, face, lips, tongue and larynx. This is
mirrored on both sides of the brain. It is postulated that meditation
produced a cyclic stimulus of electrical activity which reverberated
in a circular path across the surface of the brain where those areas
corresponding to the parts of the body mentioned exist. From other
medical work, it is known that stimulation of these areas of the brain
can result in the person feeling stimulation in the corresponding part
of the body. The feeling may be of pain or of pleasure or some other
sensation. The stimulation of these areas can thus be seen as an
explaination why meditators may experience pains in the body such as
in the big toe. It is interesting to note that in meditation it is
the right side of the brain which is stimulated more. Those who were
experiencing pain in the body tended to experience it more in the left
side of the body, which is the side of the body controlled by the right
side of the brain. Anyway, the specific layout of these areas across
the surface of the brain could account for why with Kundalini the feeling
is as if it flows right from the toes up to the head and why certain
pain sensations can be felt to move in a similar path.
These experiences of pain in the body experienced by meditators are
also experienced by people who have had Kundalini awakenings and otherwise
are not into meditation. Lee Sanella working with the Bentov model
theorised that the rising of the Kundalini could stimulate the same
electrical oscillations within the brain as were seen as a result of
deep meditation. From this connection comes a number of interesting
ideas. First was that it was felt that not only do we store up stuff
in the chakras, eg. trauma, as energy patterns, but that they are also
stored as patterns on the surface of the brain. Thus, the electical
activity across the surface of the brain had the effect of clearing
these blockadges. As blockadges on different parts of the surface of
the brain were being cleared, they would stimulate the corresponding
part of the body, thus resulting in the pains experienced in the
body through a Kundalini awakening. Further, as the blockadges of
energy on the brain were cleared, it allow new pathways for neural
energy to flow through the brain. This was seen how such meditative
practices and/or a Kundalini awakening could result in expansion of
the abilities of the mind, leading to such things as psychic abilities.
Eventually, as the electrical activity cleared all blockadges, a
permanent cyclic oscillation would be set up, the result of which
would be pleasurable and which could be compared to the state of
bliss or samadhi.
Within the model there was even an explaination for the twitching one
experiences in the body. This was the result of the close proximity
in the brain of that part dealing with voluntary movement of muscles,
to other specific areas which may be set into a state of oscillation
due to the effects of meditation and/or Kundalini. Although this gives
an underlying explaination as to why body movements may occur, there
was no reason as to why specific yoga postures may have been adopted.
One I suppose could look at this in the reverse though and say that
such postures came about due to the observation of postures triggered
by this process. Thus postures being the natural positions resulting
from the stimulation in that part of the brain. I am not familiar with
Yoga postures so I do not know how valid it may be to look at this
issue in this way.
A further interesting point made in the study was the result of spontaneous
Kundalini could be the result of a person exposure to electrical and/or
physical vibrations in the same range of frequency of the seven hertz
seen in the blood of the aorta. With the increased exposure to
electromagnetic radiation, especially CRT's, this could explain why
there seems to be an increase of such spontaneous Kundalini awakenings.
I hope I have got the flavour of what the book describes correct. If you
have specific questions as to how certain experiences related to the
Kundalini may be explained by this model, feel free to ask and I will
try and read into the description of the model further and see what I can
find.
Remember, this doesn't rule out Kundalini being related to the spiritual
as such experiences as result from the Kundalini must have a framework
within the physical body to support it else we wouldn't be able to
experience them in the first place. The process can be seen though to be
a natural evolution of the body accessable to everyone. What would seem
to be one of the important points is the need to work through whatever
issues we have which are causing blockadges within our body. It is only
through clearing the blockadges that the higher states which can result
due to Kundalini can be attained. I'll make further comments on this in
a separate mail message as I want to address a few comments made by
people about the use of Yoga exercises and the belief that a Guru is
needed to guide your development under the affect Kundalini. This is
however, all for now.
--
Graham Dumpleton (grahamdATNOSPAMdscpl.com.au)
[6] From: John Halonen
Subject: Re: Discussion of sexual activity.
From: Swenson O \ Internet: (c9426728ATNOSPAMalinga.newcastle.edu
activity.
>Dear listmembers.
>This discussion about sex relative to the kundalini energy has been going
for some while now and I have seen >individuals take a stance on both ends
of the spectrum as well as anywhere in between. What I have found >lacking
in this discussion is what the supposed objective of controlled raising of
the kundalini energy is, and >what happens when the practice lacks the
discipline that is required when dealing with this extremely potent >form of
manifested energy.
Exactly, this kundalini and pranic energy are related to the sexual organs
and the first two chakras are based in that area, but most of the posts have
not dealt with what to do with this energy to help raise the kundalini.
I believe that the K energy is supposed to be very spiritual. This is how I
felt in the experience I posted earlier when I felt like a checker board of
energy, very spiritual. I don't know what I did or how I did it or if I did
it. But it was spiritual.
I have felt a lot of energy come from some of the posts that people have
sent across this server. And you can tell when something affects you a
certain way. Most of these posts seem shallow so far in that they have not
affected me. Not to say they might not have affected someone else.
I'm not saying I object to any topic, but it needs to start relating to
kundalini more closely.:) IMO anyway.
Sincerely,
John Halonen
[7] From: John Halonen
Subject: Body massage and energy.
Hello everyone,
Yesterday was my birthday and my wife got me surprise. My first
professional massage.
I couldn't belive how great it made me feel. My energy was realy
circulating when she was done and a few
strange things happened along the way.
1. About a mile from the massage parlor my energy started to jump, like it
new something was coming.
2. While the lady was massaging my right thumb there was a soreness there,
and it was like I knew she
recognized this and she twisted my hand a couple different ways, then she
messaged my thumb some more
sending energy through it and the soreness was gone.
3. About halfway through the massage I experience a bright blue flash. Lots
of people talk about white lights and flashes, but what does this mean?
4. I was fealing really relaxed when she was working my feet near the end, I
saw images of me and my brother mike when we were younger. They would just
float by.
When she was done, my energy felt incredible and I wanted to start laughing.
I did a little and had to hold back from cracking up. I've heard that
Kundalini makes people really laugh some times, and this is what I felt like
doing. It was wild.
What a great present!
Sincerely,
John Halonen
[8] From: Richard Satin
Subject: Re: sex and K
David,
Isn't this a bit strong?
> Is it offensive to note when a debasing element has been allowed
> full and unrestricted entry into the thread? I think Von was right on
> target. As long as soil remains outside ones house it can be called
> "soil". The moment
> it enters into ones house it becomes "dirt". This line of discussion,
> quite frankly, is dirt and should be removed.
Debasing? Dirty?
And I don't follow how this next ties in with the thread:
> cannot point out one Self-Realized being who so indulged
> him/herself or his/her disciples, not one.
>From the posted comments, many, many people on the list have found this
thread beneficial (even if a bit uncomfortable). Yes, the initial post
seemed to be centered on purely physical pleasure. But is this a bad thing?
There also seems to me to a big jump from pleasure with one's body and/or
with a person one cares about (e.g. Frans' post and others) to a
condemnation of casual relations with "disciples" or others. Most of us on
this list would wholeheartedly agree (I think) that sex outside of love and
commitment is destructive to spiritual growth.
It goes without saying David that I really appreciate your posts - and
mostly agree completely. But this one seems a bit iffy...
Richard
--
libraATNOSPAMexecpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~libra/
............................................................................
One’s destination is never a place but rather a new way of
looking at things.
-Henry Miller
[9] From: hyperATNOSPAMhmt.com (HyperMedia Technologies)
Subject: k spiritual/sex
>
>I believe that the K energy is supposed to be very spiritual.
>
Kundalini Chiti has a 'mundane' aspect and a 'spiritual' aspect.
The spiritual aspect is dormant in most people.
The mundane aspect is where most of the discussion on this list is focused
at this moment.
Martin
[10] From: Stevie
Subject: Re: sex and K
On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, David A. Katz wrote:
> You saw wrong, so I quote...
MU!
[11] From: Stevie
Subject: Re: Discussion of sexual activity.
On Fri, 12 Jul 1996, Swenson O wrote:
> It is in the hope of having access to this quality of information that I
> feel willing to merge myself in the group and share what I can with it.
> Through the discussion so far I find myself gaining a bit of information
> on the characteristics of base of the spine energy centre. I can hardly
> contain my joy regarding expectations of discussions of the other energy
> centres if the interest in the current centre is anything to go by, and I
> can hardly wait for the discussion to move onto those other energy
> centres.
=)
One rad little exercise from my Guru... sometime when you are going to be
alone for a while, try to keep your hands on your heart center. If you
have to do something with your hands, try to do it with one hand and keep
one hand there. My Guru did this for a day and started feeling incredible
heat in this region...
-stevie