[1]: From: The Psy-kick Worrier ov Gaia 
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V96 #31

Gloria wrote;

> Subject: Re: Important: Topics of Discussion
> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 15:15:24 -0400
> From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
>
>  Isn't this an incredible world we live in? People are so attached to words
> and so easily miss what is at the heart of a communication  because of
> words/vibrations/and preconceived thoughts, etc. And, BECAUSE OF FEAR AND
> WANTING TO CONTROL THINGS.
> 
> Because of this, I believe we need be very open to move with the spirit,
> anytime someone tries to control anything ... it is going to change the
> frequency of the movement. I would rather people react to words, and go
> through the conversation of even misunderstanding then to simply avoid the
> communication.  The only way to move with divine will is to allow it to
> control ones life WHICH includes this mailing list, doesn't it?

Good stuff!

I'd like to hear any ideas from listmembers about how you deal with that 'control freak' 
side to oneself if you've experienced this. I'm aware of this aspect to myself but 
sometimes it seems to take on a life of its own. Is it common for ones intellectual 
function (which is what this is related to) to be over stimulated by awakening? I guess 
it is - there I go answering my own q's again! But I suppose what I'm really trying to 
say is; is this something unique to me (being too intellectual) or is this a common 
experience?

Word up!

Barney


 [2]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Perceived Perception.

    Ask yourself where are you now. Are you the body?  If you could take off
one of your hands would you be in it?  What about one of your feet are you in
there?  Are you in abdomen?  Are you in your head?  Etc. Where are you?

    As I perceive this self and the surroundings.  Nothing exists. As the
creative energy (Kundalini) manifests her self down through the charkras
until she goes to sleep at the base of the spine. Consciousness is then
manifested  through each charkra in turn. Same as light is broken down in a
prism to manifest the rainbow.  The charkras brake down the creative energy
and then reflects the perceived energy as consciousness in it's own color as
per our own  perceived self qualities to comprehend it.  The Kundalini then
goes to sleep as there is nothing else for her to do because the perceived
universe has been created (Maya).  

    Through purification of the body the Kundalini is awakened.  The
Kundalini then starts her journey back through the same charkras as she came
down through.  (Fallen angel story?)   As the Kundalini passes through each
charkra in turn the perceived consciousness is seen according to our
qualities and abilities to see it. Once the kundalini completely returns back
to the original absolute unmanifested source the perceived universe (Maya)
disappears. 

    Example: Look at the prism as our own body.  As one consciousness (light)
is reflected or broken down into many consciousness (light), meaning
qualities. Each consciousness (light) appears as self according to your
perceived self qualities and abilities to see it.

Clear ?

As always,
Von  


 [3]: From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Gloria/David Dialogue on Topics

All... What follows is a three document dialogue, this being part 1, between
Gloria and myself.  I was arguing against more freedom being allowed in the
area of Topics, Goria argued for.  Gloria won (I think she cheated - she
must have).  Perhaps she will convince you too...  It begins with my
response to Glorias post entitled Re:  Improtant Topics of Discussion.  I
set out to "correct" her...


Dear Gloria,

    You wrote:  "I've had the distinct impression that people are drawn to
this group
>discussion not because of kundalini, although it is an interesting topic, but
>because of the honesty and perhaps even some of the extreme differences in
>communication techniques, and the forces that are working here, both positive
>and negative."

****   I think you are mistaken.  As someone who has experienced (literally
seen, felt and begun to dissolve as a separate entity into) the Light and
Joy of kundalini (aka 'God') shooting up my spine into the anahat (heart)
chakra, I am not drawn to this discussion group because of  "differences in
communication techniques"  nor "the forces that are working here, both
positive and negative".  I am drawn, and I believe most people here are
drawn  to this discussion group to garner the inspiration which will hasten
the process of enlightenment (and I, for one, have not been disappointed.
There has been much inspiration from my fellow travelers along the path.
Indeed, you yourself have been a source of inspiration) ****    
>
>You also wrote:>" People are so attached to words
>and so easily miss what is at the heart of a communication  because of
>words/vibrations/and preconceived thoughts, etc. And, BECAUSE OF FEAR AND
>WANTING TO CONTROL THINGS." 
>
*****Absolutely*********

And then you added:  "The only way to move with divine will is to allow it to
>control ones life WHICH includes this mailing list, doesn't it?" 

*****Yes, but that does not mean we should "flow" into any discussion
whatsoever without regard to topic.   There must be discipline and
guidelines or the goal -- inspiration and guidance towards the awakening of
the kundalini --  will be lost sight of in very short order.  Your repsonse
might be that God will guide and inspire and to that I must say the exercise
of one's discipline and will towards the achievement of union with God
ENABLES  such inspiration and guidance, it does not hinder it.  If "letting
go" and "flowing" were the way of it then all the great sages of India were
wrong.  They all taught strict self-discipline and scourging
psycho-physiological  techniques for awakening the kundalini and
experiencing the beatific vision of God, our Higher Self.  I dare say if we
were seated before one of the great masters he or she would not long
tolerate the kind of free flow discussion you are advocating.  One's gaze
must be flawless - the goal never lost sight of.  The notion that any topic
must surely be divinely inspired or lead to such is nonsense (forgive the
harsh term please).  We are given a compass, the topic of this discussion
group, to guide us and inspire us and transport us towards God.  You and
others are suggesting we throw the compass to the wind.  I say you are wrong
in this, that the discussions will deteriorate in quality and value in short
order.  ***********


> This is a world of opposites, until people learn to observe the opposites
>and flow with what is there in that moment, it is just another illusion all
>around. Does anyone hear and understand what I'm saying? FOR ME THIS IS THE
>BOTTOM LINE! Gloria 

***** Indeed, this is a world of opposites.  But the topic of this
discussion group is THE phenom. which TRANSCENDS ALL OPPOSITES.  To attain
to it requires focusing on those thoughts, acts, and characteristics within
the realm of duality which bring one within close proximity (ie; sattvic
qualities) - from there it is up to God to lift us up.  That requires
DISCRIMINATION and DISCIPLINE. Perhaps you are suggesting that by constant,
vigilant awareness of the duality present in each moment one can transcend
that duality and enter into communion with God?  I would say great if you
can do it, but few have such a level of  jnana (wisdom) to succeed.  Be that
as it may,  the path of jnana is not the subject of this discussion group. 

    I hope you will not take offense with my disagreement.  I read and enjoy
your postings a great deal, I just disagree with you on this point of a
free-flow discussion and on the reason for some of us participating in this
forum.  Kundalini is not a peripheral topic, it is central (it is not irda
or pingala, it is shushumna).
                 
                      In Light and Joy (sometimes, alas only sometimes),
                          David>


 [4]: From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Dialogue, part 2

What follows is Gloria's surgical strike to the heart of the issue...

David,
Your discussion is an example, look at what you explained, and yes I agree,
there needs to be great inner self discipline with each person, but that
isn't to say that people on the list haven't shown that. How long have we
been doing this, a couple of months or maybe three? We've moved along with
some discussions that were very insightful and it has only brought us to even
more in depth conversations. This one for instance, yes and yes, we certainly
must work through meditation and dream work in balancing the energies we work
through, and when people connect up to spirit and real communication, this
helps each person to follow the same discipline while yet, allowing the free
flow to take place. What I'm saying, is this kind of stimulation that came
through what I threw out is meaningful because it is real. And, all who are
reading it are thinking and asking within what does this mean. And what would
it be to be to flow with the spirit knowing that it would be right, with each
of us using our spiritual discipline to remain centered and ride the wave
together. This is what I'm saying. I say we have already connected, and
something is happening here that is attracting others. As the bond within the
core group becomes strong, the foundation is already set and the spirit will
guide and direct the communication. This may be far out on faith to you, but
I've watched it manifest so many times I just can't count them. It starts
from this very vibration and then, something really wonderful happens. I call
these magic moments, and what makes it happen is people really going within,
asking, opening, listening, contributing, and totally believing that God is
in charge. Tell me how this fits for you? I loved what you said. Gloria


 [5]: From: kashiATNOSPAMlava.net (David A. Katz)
Subject: Dialogue, part 3

RETREAT!!!

  Gloria,

    I do understand what you are saying and after due reflection have
decided  you are right.  The Spirit will guide us.  I noticed a factor I had
ignored -- Why People End Up In This Group.  What worried me was the
potential for discussions without any remote connection to the very purpose
of the group.  But  I was excluding, as you mentioned,  the "faith factor"
in terms of  how people are guided INITIALLY  to find this discussion group
and why people would remain in this discussion group...  That first step,
stumbling upon or deliberately seeking this internet address is without a
doubt anything but the result of chance.  We are guided, and those who join
this group do so by the prompting of God.  That being the case, they are
without a doubt prepared to keep on topic and offer valuable additions to
the discussions.  I did not figure that into the equation.    Your response
triggered this knowing.  We are guided and you and the others who are
"lobbying:" for more freedom of movement in discussion are, in my revised
opinion, right.  I yield (in faith).

                        End of Dialogue   


 
 [6]: From: Claudia Morris 
Subject: Re: moon cycle

Mark :

I'm confused by your comment, aren't you the same Mark Rivera that 
notices  "increases in energy, strange, unstrange and amazing things" 
during the full moon?

Sounds pretty far out to me!
: )  Claudia 

Mark Rivera said:
>Claudia, I hate to say this, but I think your caaught up by the full >moon.

Mark Rivera wrote:
>I too notice increases in energy or other strange or unstrange stuff on
>the full moon. It's considerered normal. Though, amazing.

Viviane Brisson wrote:
>The moon will be full on June 30 and, as usual, the energies I feel all >the
time at the crown and the brow chakras and at both feet are >exacerbated by
this event and by the new moon. Anyone else out there >has noticed some change
during the moon cycle? I have accepted fully >those symptoms, but my
>SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com

 [7]: From: Claudia Morris 
Subject: Re: dream

Niles,

I agree with your concerns.  

But rather than publicly accusing someone with only suppositions and 
hearsay, couldn't you do a little quiet homework - ie;  write to Gloria 
privately and check out your "suspicions" first?

If your concerns are warranted and proven - say what you have to say.  
But if not, please spare a fellow human's feelings.

Love & Light, 
Claudia


Niles Rodrick wrote:
> 
> Why is it Gloria,
> 
>      that I get the distinct impression that your using this list to promote your
> products, and build up your own list of clientele?
>      I for one, don't appreciate your 'constantly' telling people to write
> directly to you, instead of the group.
>      It would also be nice if you would just put out the info on the mattress,
> instead of telling us to write you privately for it. In other words, if you are
> acting as an agent for a maufacturer, come out and say so. At least
> then we'll know why it has to be done privately. I also noticed that,
> although your spelling is quite good, you spelled 'Nikken' wrong and
> mentioned that they were out of Japan, when in truth, there out of
> Germany. It's Almost as if your trying to make sure noone finds them,
> unless it's thru you. Please correct me if I am wrong?
> 
>    I bring this up because I feel that your just using the group for your own
> monetary gain, and it's grating against my nerves. If  the group feels
> that I am out of place bringing this up, please advise me of same, and
> I will apologize, and if neccessary, bow out.


 [8]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V96 #31

Barney,
It is my experience when your in detachment that you just sit back and watch
the spiritual dance. If everyone comes into this list with a very open mind,
willing to flow with the energies, both negative and positive, knowing them
both as illusion, it is pretty incredible to watch what comes through it. It
is what I call transformational love. Different then any love we speak or
know of because it is totally from letting go and letting spirit bring the
energies together. Does this touch any place inside of you? Gloria


 [9]: From: Karol Ann Barnett 
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V96 #31

Hi Barney:

Speaking strictly from MOE (my own experience), I have yet to control the 
k-energy.  I have to let it do its thing -- there is no other way for 
me.  The only control I can manage, is how I handle my own reactions.  
(And I'm STILL working on that one.)

Karol Ann


[10]: From: Melissa Ann Fornof 
Subject: Niles' post

Niles,

I get the "distinct impression" (to use your words) that you are a wee 
tad bit paranoid.  Perhaps you are actually reacting to Gloria's "matter 
of fact" style of writing.  I once had a friend at a job I worked at.  
She came off very gruff and authoritative.  Everyone, including me, 
thought she was a bitch.  Then I got to know her.  Turns out, the 
gruffness was just her personality and style.  She did not mean to come 
off that way, and didn't even realize she did.  She actually had a heart 
as big as Texas (where I live, by the way), and would be the first to 
stick up for those who called her a bitch behind her back.  You just had 
to get to know her and accept her the way she was.  Once I did that, I 
saw her much differently and we had a lot of fun together.  Some people 
just have a style that is "put-offish" until you understand it and/or 
accept it.  Maybe you can do what others have suggested on this list--be 
your own filter.  That is to say, when Gloria or anyone else says "this 
is the way it is," to say to yourself, "this is what she believes or what 
works for her--I will try it and/or use my intuition to know if it will 
work for me."

As for promoting products for monetary gain, I have so far never heard 
Gloria mention selling anything.  She has given suggestions--i.e. what 
she uses for certain ailments--never telling anyone to buy it.  Much less 
to buy it from her.  As far as I know, she doesn't sell anything.  And 
even if she does, Richard (I think) said this is not an advertising 
network.  So, the only way TO sell anything is through personal e-mail.  
Even so, selling a useful product doesn't make one greedy.  Even if 
Gloria sells products, she so far has not pushed ANYTHING on this list, 
and she may even sell at-cost plus S&H.  That doesn't make one a money 
grabber.  

Also, Kundalini is a rare topic--certainly not the first place (probably 
not even the LAST place) a profiteer would look to sell products.

I think Gloria asks for personal e-mail for two reasons--to keep from 
clogging the list answering one or two personal questions, and to keep 
from offending those who don't gel with her religious beliefs.  (Gloria, 
please correct me if I'm wrong.) 

So far, I have seen Gloria give general answers to every question, and 
then ask for personal e-mail for those who need/want/seek more in-depth 
answers.  Also, she is careful enough to say, as she did for me 
concerning my dream, to say that if one does not WANT the discussion to 
continue on the list, to e-mail her directly.  I feel that all her 
intentions are pure, considerate, and loving.  Certainly not out for 
profit.

As for the "Nikken" mistake, if it is as you say rather than as she says, 
then I believe it is an honest, human mistake.  Probably due to someone 
misinforming HER.  I don't think it was deliberate.

I don't think ANYONE on this list is decietful or has hidden motives.  
This list has to do with a spiritual awakening.  I can't see anyone using 
it in an adverse way.  Such users would require a much wider, more easily 
influenced audience with more income potential.  Think about it--does it 
really make sense?  If you wanted to rip off the public for your own 
gain, would you chose such an obscure group of people such as those 
experiencing Kundalini?  A barely-known phenomena in the West?  

This group, I believe, is full of loving people who don't want ANYONE to 
"bow out"--we want to work out our problems.  EVERYONE has something 
valuable to contribute, no matter how small it seems.  (One man's garbage 
is another man's treasure?}  And vice-versa, everyone has something 
valuable to gain from this list, no matter how small it seems.  So, I 
hope, you will remain on this list.  I hope you work out your problem 
with Gloria.

Love to all, Melissa


[11]: From: Melissa Ann Fornof 
Subject: Spirits

Sorry to post twice at once, but I have some more questions that have 
been weighing on my mind.

I've heard of people seeing not only angels, but demons.  Do demons or 
evil spirits really exist?  Or are they just third-eye 
visualizations/manifestations of our own fears/worries/blockages etc.?
If they ARE real, can they hurt you?  How can you deal with them?  Make 
them go away?  Keep them from hurting you?  

Why do these visualizations or spirits come to you?  Can everyone who 
sees angels or beings of light expect to also see demons?  Why or why 
not?  Why DO some people see demons and others do not?

I still do not fully understand what people mean by needing a firm 
foundation before deliberately calling up the K, but I somehow feel I am 
getting it through this list.  With every important question I ask, I get 
answers which cause a soothing/calming of my soul, even if my logical 
brain does not agree/accept/understand etc.  I feel much calmer and 
braver already because of the responses, regardless of my thoughts on 
them.  Maybe it is just from knowing I have a support group to answer 
questions and give suggestions and just to share with, having a common 
denominator no matter how different we are.  I don't know for sure, I 
just feel/sense that I am gaining this foundation some of you spoke of.  

Thanks to everyone who has answered my posts, and to everyone on the list 
just for being there.  I look forward to responses to this post.  

Love to all, Melissa


 
[12]: From: Jim Cook 
Subject: Dear Melissa

Dear Melissa,

I really enjoy your posts. You always have some good questions and a lot of 
wisdom to pass on.

I have never seen a demon or evil spirit.

I have spirits around me all the time but none of them are evil or demonic.

Some of them like to play practical jokes but it's only harmless fun.

Although, some of them are getting close to getting me fired from my
job. This might be their intent though.

One day I was at work and I steped outside to see what all the dark clouds
were about and I saw an ant as big as a cat.
You can imagine how shocked I was.
I yelled at my co-workers, "HEY!!, Come out here and look at the size of
this ant"
They all rushed out and looked around and then looked at me like I had
just landed from Mars.
I then realized that they couldn't see the ant.
I stood there and watched the ant walk up the street and around the corner.

I don't think the ant was a demon. It was probably sent to me for a good
reason but what that is, I have no Idea,

I have had things happen and not until ten years later will I realize why
They happened.

Bye For Now,

Jim


[13]: From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: Spirits

I've never seen angels or demons. But I had entities in my house, one of them 
beeing a very low level astral being. He didn't want to move on, but kept on 
bugging us women of the house. Without my knowledge because we never spoke on 
the subject, my daughter had to endure him (she's clairvoyant too, so she 
could see him and feel him on her). But my awakening prompted me to read more 
on several subjects and to seek advice from others. Fear is based on the 
unknown. So now I KNOW that there is such a thing as a ghost, but I know that 
we have to help them move on instead of fearing them. 

I think the apparitions I had (wich I mentioned in an earlier post) were 
manifestations of a higher power that could be considered angelic. That 
happened at a moment when I was very relieved that my house was clean.

I can now see ghosts without being afraid of them, meaning I don't interpret 
them as being bad per se. One of my tasks one day will be to help them. This 
list has certainly contributed to that foundation by helping me to understand 
some aspects, physical and intellectual, that are happening in most of us. I 
still have the energies but now I feel comfortable with them and I just let 
them flow through me, knowing they're manifestation of the divine.

As for demons, I would like to hear from others. 

Love to all...



>Sorry to post twice at once, but I have some more questions that have 
>been weighing on m
>
>I've heard of people seeing not only angels, but demons.  Do demons or 
>evil spirits really exist?  Or are they just third-eye 
>visualizations/manifestations of our own fears/worries/blockages etc.?
>If they ARE real, can they hurt you?  How can you deal with them?  Make 
>them go away?  Keep them from hurting you?  
>
>Why do these visualizations or spirits come to you?  Can everyone who 
>sees angels or beings of light expect to also see demons?  Why or why 
>not?  Why DO some people see demons and others do not?
>
>I still do not fully understand what people mean by needing a firm 
>foundation before deliberately calling up the K, but I somehow feel I am 
>getting it through this list.  With every important question I ask, I get 
>answers which cause a soothing/calming of my soul, even if my logical 
>brain does not agree/accept/understand etc.  I feel much calmer and 
>braver already because of the responses, regardless of my thoughts on 
>them.  Maybe it is just from knowing I have a support group to answer 
>questions and give suggestions and just to share with, having a common 
>denominator no matter how different we are.  I don't know for sure, I 
>just feel/sense that I am gaining this foundation some of you spoke of.  
>
>Thanks to everyone who has answered my posts, and to everyone on the list 
>just for being there.  I look forward to responses to this post.  
>
>Love to all, Melissa
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


 
[14]: From: John Halonen 
Subject: Re: Melissa - Spirits and Hello


Hello there, 

I am just new to this list, and don't believe I've experienced a kundalini
awakening as of yet, but I have worked with my energy for a while.  It seems
the few days I have been  monitoring this list, it has helped me realize the
meanings of some of my dreams and past experiences.   And I would like to
say thank you for that.

I have not seen a spirit in the awake state, but I beleive I have seen them
in the dream state expressed as blocks I must work through and to help see
all sides of my spirit.  Spirits in the from of "angels" and "demons",
but these are preconcieved notions IMO.  And also I beleive I have seen
spirits in the form of my Kundalini energy.  I beleive this spirit was in
the form of a demon, and the reason why was because I was getting hurt.
Now I realize it was not a demon, just the Kundalini being rough with me. 
Working it's way through many blocks while I was asleep.  I would often wake
up with big bruises where I thought this demon had hurt me or thrown me
against a wall or something of that effect.  Nightmare!  I know I am still
clearing blocks, but I can't Imagine how many more there would be if not for
that experince.

As to who sees spirits, most people looking for enlightenment in one way or
another probably see spirits.  As to which spirits they see, I don't have an
answer that.  Maybe that is all a mental thing.
 
The foundation you say you are getting from this mailing list is true. 
Faith, search for enlightenment, willingness to change when the K comes
around.  I believe these are the basics of that foundation.
Then comes the energy work, the clearing of blocks, Chakra work, asana or
Body postures.  All of these are so the K-energy can acsend without problems
IMO. 

I was really suprised to find this list and how active it is. 
Thank you to everyone for sharing!

John Halonen
halonenjATNOSPAMix.netcom.com