[1]: From: Melissa Ann FornofSubject: pain and Kundalini Dear All, I don't understand. Why is Kundalini almost always accompanied by some degree of pain? For some, excruciating? Is it a lack of something on our part? Some past life Karma as Richard suggested? Surely, something so wonderful isn't INTENDED to hurt. Then why the pain? And what explains some of the very few all-good experiences, one which was described on this list recently. My experience was pretty short, because I somehow made it stop (trying to do it temporarily; ended up gone for good until I tried to get it back). I experienced very little pain, and when I did, I seemed to know what to try to stop it. All I got in terms of pain were quick body-stabs, which are over so quick you hardly notice them, and head pressure, which I alleved by breathing and concentrating on relaxing and releasing. I also experienced intense heat, but it never got painful. It started to a few times, as my fear level increased. As I concentrated on breathing, relaxing, and NOT BEING AFRAID, it stayed at a tolerable level. I hear stories all the time, though, where people have resigned themselves to pain as part of the process. Most of these I've read are not afraid, though, so that can't be the explanation--at least not for them. So what is? There ARE a few people who have purely benign experiences. What makes them so different from everyone else? Why do those few seem to be "the chosen few" picked out to have benign experiences? It doesn't make sense to me that most people have to pay a price for the process, and a few don't. Are they just better people than others or what? I don't really subscribe to that theory. I would just like some comments and input on this. Since my first K experience, I tried to re-start it with some success. As time went on, I've spent less and less time on it, the few manifestations I've had declining subsequently. Now, it's almost completely gone again. Part of me wants to try to get it back yet again. But this whole idea of pain being part of the deal frightens me. Also, some people have mentioned needing a foundation first--I still don't know what exactly this means, or how to get it. During my first experience, I always felt/sensed/knew I wouldn't be one of the people who goes through such pain. I also felt I had a method of control whereby I could stop any time it started to get painful and I couldn't stop it with my usual techniques. Now, I think perhaps it was my own conjecture rather than intuition or "divine knowlege." To help me cope. I'm not at all sure I ever would have really been able to control anything beyond a certain point. I'm not sure at all I would not have been one of the torturous stories I've read of. I'm afraid to begin again for this reason, as well as having been told I need a foundation first, whatever that is. So, I'd like some isight, input, and suggestions from people concerning all of this. Thanks in advance. Love to all, Melissa [2]: From: Iver Juster Subject: re: Intro; palms; kriyas Ori, thanks for your thoughtful and interesting story. The way I got involved with orgasm was that when I had my awakening-I had this wildly beautful, intense orgasm (going into the white light, etc) that lasted for quite a while (1 hour???), totally in my head but blissful beyond anything I could ever imagine or describe and definetly an orgasmic state. (This was before I knew anything about orgasm or kundalini.) For several months afterwards lesser spontaneous and highly pelasurable "mind-centered whole body orgasms" would occur. I also found I could "tune" into the orgasmic state as easily as if I were turning on the radio. (That was nice!) Years later, as a Tantrica, I had my first humanly-created extended orgasm. I realized that this extended orgasm and my awakening experince were one and the same experience (although nothing has ever been as strong as the original awakening.) I was amazed. For me, the chance to learn to approach once more that place of light and divine love was so compelling that I made it a life commitment to learn how to enter the light whenever I wanted to. (That was nice!) As far as the kriyas: IMHO, the orgasm can occur completely in the brain. Practice can allow us to do this on our own, at will, at any time. However, it is usually originated in the second chakra (especially when just learning about this practice). A complete full body extended orgasm can take the energy up from the first, go all the way through the crown, and keep circulating, in through the feet, out through the crown. The orgasmic energy is divine universal spiritual love consciousness (or whatever you like to call that ultimate essence). The energies of sex and spirit are one and the same. As the orgasm develops, vibrations occur as our bodies surrender our rigid outer armoring. The universe itself is vibratory. The waves can be subtle though I have seen others go into lots of shaking. So, in my view, orgasm is not a subset of kriyas. If anything, kriyas are a result of the approach into the orgasmic state of being. Personally, I prefer to focus on the surrender and not the manifestations of surrender, but I respect that each person finds what is best for him or her. I have lots of burning too, and have never figured out how to do anything about it. It sounds to me like you have kundalini rising. I am interested in your IRC forays. Do you discuss kundalini on them? What is going on out there? (If it has nothing to do with the kundalini, you can answer me privately.) Best, Patti P.s. Anyone who knows a way to mitigate burning, please let us know. Actually, I did go to see a homeopath. If it helps my burning, I will let you all know! [3]: From: pettyATNOSPAMjpp-ws.sharpwa.com (John Petty) Subject: Re: pain and Kundalini Dear Melissa, It is my belief that every person's destiny is God union. We decended into matter and now must find our way back out... back to God from whence we came. I see the Kundalini as a purifying energy that helps to prepare us for the journey back. Concerning pain, I'm allergic to it... don't like it at all, but it seems to be the common lot for earthly existance, and little good seems to occur without it's presence. Just like childbirth, there is a period of excruciating pain and then this wonderful thing happens. I'm in total agreement with the need for a foundation. Foundation meaning phsyical, mental, and psychologic stability and strength. I believe that Kundalini helps to prepare us for enlightenment, which is such a shock to the human system that preparation and conditioning is needed. When you think about coming into contact with all knowledge, power, and eternity, is it any wonder that conditioning (foundation) is required? Even just a small taste has been known to send those who are unprepared careening out of control. Regards, John ------------ > Dear All, > > I don't understand. Why is Kundalini almost always accompanied by some > degree of pain? For some, excruciating? Is it a lack of something on > our part? Some past life Karma as Richard suggested? Surely, something > so wonderful isn't INTENDED to hurt. Then why the pain? And what > explains some of the very few all-good experiences, one which was > described on this list recently. My experience was pretty short, because > I somehow made it stop (trying to do it temporarily; ended up gone for > good until I tried to get it back). I experienced very little pain, and > when I did, I seemed to know what to try to stop it. All I got in terms > of pain were quick body-stabs, which are over so quick you hardly notice > them, and head pressure, which I alleved by breathing and concentrating > on relaxing and releasing. I also experienced intense heat, but it > never got painful. It started to a few times, as my fear level > increased. As I concentrated on breathing, relaxing, and NOT BEING > AFRAID, it stayed at a tolerable level. I hear stories all the time, > though, where people have resigned themselves to pain as part of the > process. Most of these I've read are not afraid, though, so that can't > be the explanation--at least not for them. So what is? There ARE a few > people who have purely benign experiences. What makes them so different > from everyone else? Why do those few seem to be "the chosen few" picked > out to have benign experiences? It doesn't make sense to me that most > people have to pay a price for the process, and a few don't. Are they > just better people than others or what? I don't really subscribe to that > theory. I would just like some comments and input on this. > > Since my first K experience, I tried to re-start it with some > success. As time went on, I've spent less and less time on it, the few > manifestations I've had declining subsequently. Now, it's almost > completely gone again. Part of me wants to try to get it back yet again. > But this whole idea of pain being part of the deal frightens me. Also, > some people have mentioned needing a foundation first--I still don't know > what exactly this means, or how to get it. > > During my first experience, I always felt/sensed/knew I wouldn't be one > of the people who goes through such pain. I also felt I had a method of > control whereby I could stop any time it started to get painful and I > couldn't stop it with my usual techniques. Now, I think perhaps it was > my own conjecture rather than intuition or "divine knowlege." To help me > cope. I'm not at all sure I ever would have really been able to control > anything beyond a certain point. I'm not sure at all I would not have > been one of the torturous stories I've read of. I'm afraid to begin > again for this reason, as well as having been told I need a foundation > first, whatever that is. So, I'd like some isight, input, and > suggestions from people concerning all of this. Thanks in advance. > > Love to all, Melissa > > [4]: From: Royale Jills Cc: Brian Subject: Re: A place to start At 11:49 PM 6/25/96 -1000, Bill Peay wrote: >Aloha Brian, > >You have a very interesting message here. I'm not sure how to advise you, >but I'm in contact with a huge body of people who may have some ideas. >Since you asked if anyone could help you, I'm forwarding your message to >the "kundalini-l" mailing list. Perhaps one of our friends can e-mail back >to you directly at: > >Brian > >You may want to join this list, too, and observe what others have >experienced with kundalini awakening. You can find links to this mailing >list all overthe kundalini Web pages. > >I wish I could offer more, but I'm at a loss for words right now. My heart >goes out to you though. > >Aloha, > >Bill > >MESSAGE FORWARDED: > >>From: Brian >>Subject: A place to start >> >>Bill. >> >>Hi my name is Brian and I have lived in a Yoga Ashram for the past >>8 years (leaving last spring). >> >>The reason I am writing is that, for the past 2 years, my crown has >>been burning non-stop. Nothing I do seems to change it. And now >>it is localized on the only on the crown. The sensations are very >>strong and painful. >> >>I have tried most everything and am close to giving up. >> >>I am no longer in touch with my guru. He, like many eastern gurus, >>sexually abused his disciples. i was also a victim (but by his >>closer disciples0 >> >>"Our" path was a Kundalini path, but few people really knew what >>was happening. And we had so many Acharyas pass through, teaching >>different techiniques. Who know what could have happened. >> >>When the burning first manifested, I was told that it was a 'good >>thing' and to leave it up to 'grace' and the protection of my >>'path'. >> >>Now there are times when I wish I never heard of the word yoga. I >>can only imagine what is happening is a result of my years of >>practice (which relied heavily on grace) I did ask my 'guru' what >>he thought at the beginning, but he admitted he really didn't know >>what to do. >> >> >>Do you, or do you know of anyone who can help? >> >>I have tried everything form accupunction to pranic healing. >>Nothing has helped. >> >>Thanks for you help. >> >>Brian (used to be Pandu) > > >.-Hi and welcome. Im fairly new on this list but i like it so far. I can only tell you what id do. ICE!! Royale > > [5]: From: Royale Jills Subject: Re: k and ufo's At 04:01 AM 6/26/96 -0400, V487ATNOSPAMaol.com wrote: >Hello: S. Hustead > >I just came home and I am a little tired, but I wanted to say something about >ufo's and kundalini. Kundalini is important because of the side effects > of the out of body experience that goes along with the kundalini >awakening. Since no one replied to your post I'll put my two cents worth >in. Yes the UFO's are involved indirectly. For any one theat knows a >little about astrol projection. It should be very easy to figure out the >next step. An advanced civilization knows just like the Major in charge of >the top secret division of the intelligents for the military that specializes >in remote viewing knows. By the way he has a home page on the Internet. Let >me know if you would like the address. If a person can wonder around in the >astrol or mental plane then there must me a scientific explanation for it. > It is not just only God or spiritual it is also scientific or the military >would not get involved in it. >Just use the same principle or technique that applies to the physical >projecting into the astrol to the ufo crafts.. There is no difference. > Every one that ever experienced and abduction or witnessed a UFO will tell >you there is no sound and it seems just a little mystical. There is no other >way that any thing can travel form one universe to another one many light >years away with in a few seconds except through this astral and mental plane. > It is all confirmed by remote viewing and also time travel, but that is >another subject. > >Just remember that as long as (?) can keep you unaware that (?) has full >control. >. >Take care, > >Von > >hi, Von; its funny you should say that as my daughter was just saying the same thing to me yesterday. You have a good point. Id hadnt thought of that but it is logical. Royale >.- > > [6]: From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com (Viviane Brisson) Subject: re: Correct topics of discussion? I agree with Debee. I think that we can stick pretty much to the subject on our own and if someone brings on a subject that seems to be irrelevant to certain people on the list, lets keep in mind that it could be valuable to others. Personally, I don't doubt the merits of homeopathy, I'm just not very interested in the subject, so I didn't participate in this particular thread. What good would be this list if people felt they couldn't share every aspect of the awakening, which can touch so many aspects of our lives? I agree that we can get so many messages in a day that it might seem overwhelming to some of us, but I find it preferable to the bottling up I had to face everyday before I found Shared Transformation and this mailing list. I mean I can't share this even with my husband, on account of his own beliefs. Love to all... SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com [7]: From: V487ATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: pain and Kundalini Hi: John I just have feeling that you are about to experience this energy. You have all of the symptoms. I am still a very small potato, but please feel free to let me know if there is any way that I can help you along on your journey. The pains involved are just growing pains. The body is stretching itself to make it self ready to hold the energy. Some on said it's like child birth. As a man I don't know, but you could say that. A quantum leap in consciousness. Von [8]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: Fwd: k and ufo's Royale, Actually this growth process is very related to the soul entering into the realization process, I wouldn't try to connect it up to UFO or any phonemona, it will just confuse matters. It is best to zero into that heart center, acept the beautiful gift of love and light, and then get the mind off of it. The mind/self will create, create, create, leaving go and flowing is the key to this inner process. Gloria [9]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: Chris's comments on Newbie questions Jean, What I always suggest to people about seeing or hearing things, is this, observe and recognize, then let go. It is always within the movement that we learn how the cycle works. And, much of the inner experience is to bring the consciousness up to the point of seeing how much it knows moment to moment. Then each object or experience seems to fit, but nothing is of great importance, it just is. The reason I suggest this is because there are many things that will occur over a period of time, and if each of them hold a charge, then you are always going to be in an action/reaction state. This isn't good, you need to be in the observation space, watching the river flow by. Gloria [10]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: Intro ; palms ; kriyas Ori, Intutition tells me that you are indeed experiencing kundalini and what you need do is move the energy up from the lower chakra's into the heart and head. This way you won't have the energies sitting and stimulating the first two chakra;s. The first is the earth/survival, and holder of the kundalini force, the second is the sexual, in fact the first three work together all the time in our day to day activities. Once your into the heart center the fourth, then the focus clearly changes and the frequency of love/Christ will help tremendously. Does this make any sense to you? Gloria [11]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: Intro ; palms ; kriyas Brian, Write me directly, I will get into some things with you if you wish. First check out my background, and then let's just flow with spirit and see what comes up. My first instinct is to tell you to pull the energies back down through the body and out the feet and then let it return to the crown, this way it will be balanced through out the entire system. The second is that it is likely setting you up for a stronger awareness of what is coming down but I need to know more about you before going into that. If this communicates to your heart then we will talk. Keep all negative thoughts out, it is a blessing, no matter what kind of things brought it to you, so remove all negative energy pronto. Gloria GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Check out my homepage http://www.inetworld.com/lodpress/ If after this, you feel I can help, then lets talk. [12]: From: Niles Rodrick Subject: The doorway There is a branch in the scientific community that believes the cosmos was created by some sort of atomic explosion,...the big bang theory. An atomic explosion is created by the splitting of the atom. The Bible starts our creation with Adam. (Adam,..atom...?) He was also split,...into male and female. Coincedence? There are many theories about where we come from, but if we strip away the 'possibles', we are left with one undeniable FACT. If we know nothing else, we know we came from sex. This being the only FACT that we have, ...what better place to start our search... Both male and female come from the 'same mold', and within each of us is the genetic code of both sexes. This is why men have breast's, yet cannot feed the infant, and women have a penis(clitoris), yet can't father a child The sole purpose of Kundalini is to unite the male and female aspects of our being. The culmination of this 'union', which is as much physical as it is mental, results in the birth of a new being, which is now correctly balanced, whole and complete, and sees the world from a new perspective. Thus one becomes 'enlightened' as to one's true nature. 'Awakened', if you will to the bigger picture. "A rose by any other name is still a rose" can be equally applied to kundalini. I have found it in every culture and religion throughout the world, including Christianity. In the trinity 'Father, Son and Holy Ghost', Ghost is representative of the inner female, and Son is the product of the union of the Father and the inner female. It is also applicable as 'Mother, daughter, and Holy Ghost, wherein Ghost represents the inner male, and again Daughter being the product of the union between the mother and the inner male. Dangers? Depends on the individual. Concepts, upbringing, experiences, physical attributes. All have a bearing on the outcome. But again, If we know nothing else about what we're going to do in this life, we know we're going to die. The question now becomes, do we want to die trying to understand who, what, why, etc.,...or do we sit in the corner and wait for death to find us...? To Ori and Patti, It is possible that the burning sensation that you feel is due to a blockage in one of the two main channels that travel up alongside the spinal column. One is positively charged, the other negatively charged. In order for the energy to flow correctly both 'must' be open. I recommend that when in meditation, to focus on relaxing first the thighs, mentally working up to the vulva, perineum muscle(between the genitals and the anus), the buttocks, the anus and the lower spinal column, in that order. As you do this you want to 'watch for' any pressure or tightness in the lower back, mainly at the base of the spine. If you find any, turn your total focus on 'releasing' where you find that pressure. This will, no doubt, increase the flow of your sexual energy as well. To Ori,...(Patti, you already know) When you feel that you have succeeded, mentally bring the sexual energy up into your head, while maintaining (important) an awareness of it flowing thru your body. You will feel various pressures in your head, ie; mouth, teeth, throat, forhead, etc. As you feel these pressures, try to relax to them. The energy will culminate at the top of your head, where your likely to feel a sucking sensation, (as if your entire being is being drawn into your skull). This will eventually lead to an orgasm in your head, which I can only describe as a 'total oneness with everything'. Doing this repeatedly opens the channels more and more leading to perpetual orgasm, which is only the beginning of a fantastic voyage into a 'larger world'. The key is to maintain a 'conscious focus' on what you are trying to do. This is not easy when being swept away in orgasmic bliss, but is necessary to succeed. [13]: From: Karol Ann Barnett Subject: Re: The doorway > entire being is being drawn into your skull). This will eventually lead to an > orgasm in your head, which I can only describe as a 'total oneness > with everything'. I did experience this once and it was awesome. I felt waves of love enter the top of my head and I was in a perpetual state of bliss for hours after intercourse. Karol Ann [14]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com Subject: Re: I surrender John and Karol, Have you two tried to take a nice warm, relaxing bath, the water will energize your physical body and help you to balance the energies. Sometimes the water brings healing since so much of our bodies are water it is easy to get lost in it and enter back into the womb, and into the unity with all of creation. This should help, next, where is this itchy on the body? Let me sleep on it. Gloria [15]: From: Karol Ann Barnett Subject: Re: K-Energy and Aliens Anyone interested in exploring the above topic can find a universe of data from Dr. Kenneth Ring in HEADING TOWARD OMEGA and THE OMEGA PROJECT. I was in contact with Dr Ring last year regarding my k experiences. Both books can probably be found in your library. [16]: From: Karol Ann Barnett Subject: Re: I surrender Gloria, yes I have tried taking a warm shower and it does help if I do it quick enough before the energy gets too intense. I have tried everything except standing on my head and barking like a chicken *8-) but the best thing to do, depending on how intense the energy is, is to get up and expend the energy somehow -- write, draw, dance, sing, whatever. The intensity for me begins when I try to visualize or meditate before sleep. I never know when a meditation or visualization will trigger the intense energy. I'll need to study my patterns more over time in order to know that. But thanks so much for your suggestion. If you have any other ideas, please..... Karol Ann [17]: From: Melissa Ann Fornof Subject: re:doorway Niles, I loved your analogy of "adam" and "atom" and the male/female aspects. It appeals to my logical, "Mr. Spock" side. You mentioned feeling a lot of K in the head region after the "exercise" you recommended. Since my first awakening experience, I have had nearly ALL my experiences in that same region--burning scalp and third eye center, visions, throat vibrations and pressures, etc. Almost none in the lower part of my body. Yet I never did any real exercises or anything. What do you (and other listmembers) make of this? Does it say something of my personality or what I need to do/change/focus on/etc.? I'd like to hear from everyone. Thanks! Love to all, Melissa