[1]: From: Carlo Izzo <>
Subject: Attaining Kundalini

> 
> This makes the third or more time I have read on this list that people 
> should not attempt to attain, speed up, slow down, or otherwise attempt 
> to control Kundalini.  

	I am writing for my wife, Zana: she also claims the same.
	She had to learn it by herself - because she was alone.
	She was very much disturbed by kundalini, until she decided
	not to try to stop or encourage it. It took her three or four
	months to realize this was the way to cope with it. Now she
	just feels happy.

> Well, what are all those breathing exercises and 
> Yoga postures and such meditations for if not to somehow enhance 
> Kundalini?  To me, such practices are for one or more of those reasons, 
> and certainly not just "letting it happen."  Also, from everything I've 
> read, spontaneous awakenings are a fairly recent phenomena.  In times 
> past, from my readings, I gather that just about the ONLY way to attain 
> Kundalini was through meditative/Yogic practices.  Some of the "masters" 
> of the field like Gopi Krishna attained it in this manner, following 
> teachings and exercises of his mentor (if I remember correctly--I may be 
> getting Gopi confused with another master I've read of.).  So, I don't 
> see how anyone can say that it is wrong, bad, questionable, or 
> inadvisable for a person to attempt to awaken Kundalini with these 
> practices.  Also, when one meditates or visualizes to ease Kundalini 
> symptoms, isn't that a form of control?  Sure, it's not the same as 
> trying to direct every movement or stop it altogether, but it is control 
> none the less, in my opinion.  So, I believe the statements I've heard 
> about not trying to attain or control Kundalini are a bit harsh.  
> Understandably, one SHOULD exercise caution when playing with an "atomic 
> bomb," so I understand the comments and am not offended.  I just don't 
> think they are 100% true.  I welcome comments.

	We think that such practices may help, in fact, NOT to control
	kundalini. For instance, meditative practices may help to avoid
	to "act" on kundalini, and to help it work its way spontaneously.
	Just an idea...

	Ciao, Zana and Carlo


 [2]: From: Iver Juster <>
Subject: unconditional love

TO me: 
When I give unconditional love, it is love where I have no expectations or
conditions on the thing or person I am giving love to. I choose to give this
love with no strings attached.

There is a condition also here- it is the  condition that it makes me happy
to do so.  In the sense that we all give (or do anything) to satisfy
ourselves, it is not unconditional. 

In the sense that we give it away freely, it can be unconditional. Then it
is giving just cuz it feels so good to us to give. 

Anyway that is how I resolved this issue. I do both at the same time!

Best to all, Patti


 [3]: From: Karol Ann Barnett <>
Subject: Re: Homeopathy

Carlo:

It's my understanding that homeopathic remedies are prepared by using the 
essence of a certain element and then diluting it many times.  In that 
way, the essence is still there and it "structures" the water.  In other 
words, the water takes on the structure of the element's essence in order 
to gently send a message to the immune system that there is a problem 
that needs attention.  

These preparations work very well for me.  But I had to prove it to 
myself.  

Karol Ann


 [4]: From: Carlo Izzo <>
Subject: Re: unconditional love

> Karol wrote (about unconditional love):
> This concept was very difficult for me to grasp at first in my study of 
> metaphysics and spirituality.  But I have come to understand that Belief 
> preceeds experience, even though the Belief is not conscious.  And it is 
> my understanding that Unconditional Love is the place we come from; a 
> state of Beingness that most of us cannot yet demonstrate because of our 
> blockages, etc.  It's not as simple as saying I Love Everyone.  

	Now I think I understand: this is what I called "Original 
	Consciousness" in my personal metaphysics. I tell you how
	I imagined it: like a sort of sphere of "light" in the middle
	of nothing (think about the words: "Tao is the Beginning and the
	End of Everything"). Now, after a while (after "creation"?),
	the surface of this sphere of light (the Original Consciousness)
	became hard and opaque - a sort of "shell" separating the Inner
	from the Outer. This "shell" is the fabric reality is made of.
	The Original Consciusness was Below. In the beginning reality
	was uniform and homogeneous, and no one would have guessed that
	there was Consciousness below. But then, Consciousness "pushed"
	to come up, and some regular "patterns" began to appear on this
	shell: physical laws, matter, energy, space, time, galaxies,
	stars, planets. They where just "hints" to the existence of a
	Consciousness below. Then the first tiny cracks appeared on the
	shell: the first living beings. The larger the hole, the more
	"light" would pour from Below. Now Consciousness was "visible",
	under the (apparent) form of several, tiny individual consciousnesses.
	In this symbolic view, the wider the crack, the more complex is
	the organization of matter in the living being. There is more
	consciousness in humans than in frogs, and more consciousness
	in frogs than in bacteria. But the "light" is the same (it has the
	same origin). This is why we are, actually, one. Some "holes" would 
	close, some new (wider) holes would open: death and birth. This 
	process would help the Original Consciousness to "learn", improving 
	its Quality through this experience. I imagine that the purpose of 
	life is to break this shell (reality) and let the (improved) Original 
	Consciousness to shine again.

	So, you see? Tao is *really* the Beginning and the End of
	Everything! 

	Now, this is only my imagination at work! Take it as my personal view 
	of All This, for what it matters.
> 
> Anyway, I wanted to share my understanding and experience for further 
> discussion, but it is not my intent to try and convince anyone of 
> anything.  As Aristotle said, Trust your own experience.

	Can I trust my imagination?  :-)

	Ciao,   Carlo


 
 [5]: From: Carlo Izzo <>
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center

> 
> A friend of mine and long time meditator with strong shakti/kundalini was 
> turning blue for a few days - his skin was exuding what looked and acted 
> like a very fine medium blue paint - it rubbed off onto a cloth and was 
> widespread on his body but was particularly pronounced on his forehead 
> after meditating - no other symptoms save that he was meditating 'extra 
> deep'- he's stable and healthy, very devoted to his practice and seemingly 
> well along on his sadhana - any knowledge, ideas, experiences, tid-bits?

	I have just an idea: there are plenty of blue people in those
	Hindu pictures...

	Ciao,  Carlo


 [6]: From: Carlo Izzo <>
Subject: unconditional love

> 
> TO me: 
> When I give unconditional love, it is love where I have no expectations or
> conditions on the thing or person I am giving love to. I choose to give this
> love with no strings attached.
> 
> There is a condition also here- it is the  condition that it makes me happy
> to do so.  In the sense that we all give (or do anything) to satisfy
> ourselves, it is not unconditional. 
> 
> In the sense that we give it away freely, it can be unconditional. Then it
> is giving just cuz it feels so good to us to give. 
> 
> Anyway that is how I resolved this issue. I do both at the same time!
> 
> Best to all, Patti
> 
	I think this is a very good answer: I assume, of course, that
	you don't demand unconditional love from others...

	Ciao,   Carlo


 [7]: From: Maurizio Zollo <>
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

Hi everyone,
I have just found out about this "kundalini-l" list and I am so happy to
have the chance to communicate with so many of you about our Kundalini
experiences. Well, my awakening was so astonishingly simple that one
might feel kind of embarassed... but here it is.

I have been interested in Yoga since my teen years.  In addition to the
usual hatha yoga asanas, I have always tried to deepen my experiences
during those relaxation techniques which usually end a hatha yoga class.
Over the years I have kept on trying these techniques on my own, without
any guru or teacher, just for my satisfaction. The level of awareness of
my subtle system did evolve somewhat, but nothing really spectacular; it
was and remained my personal "hobby" to do some internal exploration
before sleeping or early in the morning. One day (July 3 1994, how can I
forget...) I read on the paper that a course on Sahaja Yoga meditation
was offered at the U. of Pennsylvania (where I am a Ph.D. student).  I
decided to check it out, and... the rest is history (as they say). After
a brief introduction of the basic concepts of Yoga and of the subtle
system, I was guided through an incredibly simple, 10 min., exercise at
the end of which I felt this undescribable column of cool, soothing,
breeze shooting out of the top of my head. I was perfectly aware of
everything around me,but at the same time completely thoughtless.  As I
said, this is something that can hardly be expressed in words, it just
have to be experienced ! What is Sahaja Yoga ?  No, I do not think I can
do justice to it, nor to yuour own time, if I start describing this
impressive body of experience-based, knowledge.  Suffice it to say that
it is NOT any cult or new age stuff, there is no guru or supreme master
(actually one of its premises is to become your own guru through
spontaneous, natural (sahaj means spontaneous) kundalini awakening).
There are about 200,000 people in 60 countries who meditate and evolve
on their own or collectively after having had their self-realization
with this natural, spontaneous process.  There is no effort, no horrible
sexual practice, no mesmerizing from a super-guru, no money or power,
just your own pure desire for the knowledge of your True Self, for the
discovery of Your Spirit and the communion with God.  As simple as that.

If you have a pure desire to discover more (as I hope), you can check a
home page recently created on the www, and perhaps even have the
Experience right there in front of your video (I would actually suggest
you to contact someone in your country, but if you are a
cyberfanatic...). The site is on:
hftp;//www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/costian/sy/more.html Otherwise, feel free
to contact me at zolloATNOSPAMmanagement.wharton.upenn.edu if you want to talk
about it. Enjoy !

Maurizio


 [8]: From: Carlo Izzo <>
Subject: Re: Homeopathy

> 
> Carlo:
> 
> It's my understanding that homeopathic remedies are prepared by using the 
> essence of a certain element and then diluting it many times.  

	This is right: so many times, that they disappear.

> In that 
> way, the essence is still there and it "structures" the water.  In other 
> words, the water takes on the structure of the element's essence in order 
> to gently send a message to the immune system that there is a problem 
> that needs attention.  

	If this were true, the water should be structured also by any
	other thing was diluted in water in earlier times (before it
	was purified): that water touched many different materials
	before being used for homeopathic preparations. And if I
	remember correctly, the higher the dilution, the greater the
	effect: therefore the earlier substances diluted in that
	water should be more powerful than the last essence diluted
	for homeopathic use.

	Anyway, there is no "structure" of this kind in water. Water
	has no "memory". Water molecules are scattered around randomly.
> 
> These preparations work very well for me.  But I had to prove it to 
> myself.  

	The placebo effect is well known, and measured every day in
	order to test the quality of any medicine: they take two groups
	of people having migraine (for instance), and they tell to
	the people in both groups that they are going to be treated
	with a new medicine. But to the first group they give a neutral
	substance (like plain water), and to the second the real medicine. 
	Now, people in both groups feel better than before - but in the 
	second group (if the medicine works) they feel much better than
	in the first group. The difference of the two effects is the
	real effect of the medicine to be tested.

	No one knows why people can improve with no medicine at all:
	the only explanation, in my opinion, is that we can heal
	ourselves with the sole power of our mind. Once we realize
	this, we don't need any more to pay $10 for a glass of plain
	water (BTW, if you pay it $100 it works better).

	Ciao,   Carlo


 [9]: From: Iver Juster <>
Subject: homeopathy, etc. 

Just a clarification on k-volcanoes- only about 1/3 of the time do they
erupt...the rest of the time they just go away, perhaps to whence they came?

On homeopathy: 
Carlo, I understand and share some of your skepticism. I live with doctors.
Still, if I have looked at a person who has 2 eyes and seen a third one pop
out, and move into the center of his forehead. Twice!

So after things like this, the stories we hear on this list, (pretty
amazing, don't you think) and my own interesting other things happening to
me, I find a part of my mind always open to things--like the
homeopathy--that are beyond rational sense. In fact, the older I get, the
more I feel anb sense all sorts of things that cannot be explained by reason
alone.


Best   -------     ;->, Patti


 
[10]: From: bpeayATNOSPAMaloha.net (Bill Peay)
Subject: Re: Homeopathy

>>
>> Carlo:
>>
>> It's my understanding that homeopathic remedies are prepared by using the
>> essence of a certain element and then diluting it many times.
>
>        This is right: so many times, that they disappear.
>

Just a reminder, list members and friends, that this is a focus list for
kundalini.  There's some great discussions on homeopathy on the Web at:

http://www.dungeon.com/home/cam/homeo.html

Each of us are now receiving between 15 to 30 messages from the kundalini-l
list alone now!  We'll be swamped if we dealve into general discussions of
homeopathy, Christianity, spiritual beliefs, etc.

Noone need reply to this message with an "I agree" or "I don't agree" post
(it will just clutter all our boxes with text not specifically related to
kundalini), please just think about what I'm suggesting, and do what you
feel is right in the best interests of sharing knowledge and experiences
about kundalini.

Thanks!

Bill

PS.  If you feel you MUST reply, my direct e-mail address is
bpeayATNOSPAMaloha.net.  Please don't copy back to the list and draw us all
further away from the kundalini topc...


[11]: From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
Subject: Re: tolerance

That's another way to say what I expressed myself in another post. Do you 
know how many "masters of cosmic sciences" I've met in my life? As a matter 
of fact, one of them inadvertently did me some harm. This is one of the 
reason I decided to trust myself over anyone else. And that's why I wish 
every one of you did the same. We can help each other, but I don't
think anyone of us can be absolutely certain of anything. The absolute highs 
and absolute lows of kundalini should be enough to convince anyone...

Love to all. Viviane


>
>I would like to speak for openness as well as tolerance on the list.  One
>of my life tasks pre-kundalini has been to learn not to mistake
>information given in an authoritative voice or with an authoritative
>demeanor for Absolute Truth. Learning this involved lots of painful
>experiences but I believe is part of every soul's growing up.  I know this
>planet is full of benevolent and malignant beings who speak with great
>authority.  I have no trouble imagining that the rest of the universe
>is too.  Even the benevolent ones can speak a personal truth that may not
>work at all for others.  I don't mind hearing other people's version of
>the truth or even their suggestions for my behavior.  Even if they say
>"You Must do such and such" I put it through my own filters. Only I decide
>"Must" no matter the message, its tone or its source.  I would hate
>to miss any wonderful information because it was deemed too directive
>instead of suggestive.  I have found that Love can be expressed in either
>manner (and so can fearful manipulation).
>
>I think that when this list has more postings from more people we will
>find we resonate to some postings and people more than others, but who and
>what will differ among us and from day to day.  Learning to use the delete
>key is a skill for the 90's.
>
>I was on a very large and busy listserv last year and found the experience
>very beneficial in many ways.  Over time I realised it reflected my
>thoughts, needs, belief system, etc. exactally.  I was hanging around with
>the same kind of people on the list as in the rest of my life.  I was
>annoyed by the same kind of people, etc.  I just didn't know what anyone
>looked like!
>
>Disregard this message at your own peril!
>
>OR
>
>Just a thought...
>
>;-)
>
>It's up to YOU.
>
>
>Mary
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


[12]: From: Mark Rivera <>
Subject: Re: Homeopathy

I am interested in finding out if anyone out there knows when an indian 
saint or guru will be coming to the NYC area this summer or fall. I am a 
disciple of Anandi Ma, Dyenyoga Centers. I received Shakti-pat from her 
last year. I am a novice. Woiuld like to make friends with others who 
have experienced Shakti. 
Mark


[13]: From: SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com (Viviane Brisson)
Subject: Re: k-volcanoes and heart centers

For the lumbar problems, I used to control it with strict exercizing almost 
every day. But lately, I've been feeling more tired since I can't sleep much 
more than 4 hours a night. So I've been more lenient on the exercises. But I 
wish to go back on a more strict schedule, since I didn't feel my back way 
back then...

I tried melatonin and various herbs such as valerian and they work a little, 
but I think they're just crutches...

Any suggestions out there?

>
>Hi Patti:
>
>I'm an continually amazed at the symptoms that seem to be universal 
>instead of just my own!
>
>The outbreaks you described, I have been told, are the body's way of
>removing toxins.  
>
>I have the electrical sensation on my upper lip at times.  Edgar Cayce 
>said that it meant that we were to receive a message from the outer 
>realms.  Sometimes I wish they'd just sent a telegram *8-)
>
>I also have back problems and would like to know how you all handle it.
>
>Karol Ann
>
SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com


[14]: From: "Von D. Dent" <>
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center 

This is for Richard, but anybody can read and reply to me by E-Mail
if you like?  Aloha
 
Richard Satin 
Original kundalini-l-ownerATexcecpc.com 

Questionaire for Kundalini-l
All questions are optional.

1. Name:   Von Dent
2. Age:       52
3. Sex:	      M	
4. When did you first become aware of the Kundalini process?  About five
years ago.
5.  How long ago was this? Six Months
6.  What were some of the first things you noticed?  Setting in my big
living room chair with many problems in life and I just wanted to give
up life altogether.  I made a small prayer.  I just said," if there is a
God then show yourself to me now or I will never believe in you again
because you do not exist and I don't want to wast my time on something
that is not real."  Just as soon as I said those words I was knocked
right out of the chair unto the floor.  I had an extremely very powerful
bolt of lighti ng ( Kundalini ) go right through me.  Now I can
understand how human combustion works.  The first thing that I noticed
was of course the out of body experience, seeing right through my eyes
whey they were closed. Seeing through walls.  See the kundalini through
my one body by just looking backward inside myself.  Reading peoples
thoughts. Being pulled very strongly to the teachings of Paramahansa
Yogananda to which I never heard of before. Feeling and see the presence
of ot!!!her entities.  Fighting with entities right in by bed room while
out of the body. Hot and cold all the time.  Physical body bing lifted
up to about the meddle of my room. Just about going completely crazy. I
had no help at all from any body and did not know anything at all about
this area.  Excuses me, but I always felt and still do that I am being
helped from the other side because of the way thing happen.  Like going
to the book store and not knowing why.  Then just standing waiting for
something to happ en.  When felt nothing was going go happen I just
turned around to leave the store and then a book just fell out and hit
the back of my shoe.  When I bent down to pick up the book it was open
to a certain page.  When I read the page I know instantly why I was at
the store and the book also changed my life.  I bought the book and
underlined the page that was open to me.  There are many experiences
like this so what else can I think except some one is helping me.

7.  What has changed most in your life since the process began?
Everything in life changed completely.

8.  Have your eating habits changed?  How so? Trying not to eat animal
products.

9.  Do you practice meditation or yoga?  What type(s)?  How often?  Yes
I practice the Kriya technique that I was initiated into by the
teachings Paramahansa Yogananda. (SRF) 

10.  Are you involved in service to others?  What kind?  For some reason
people really are interested in wanting to know more about these things
and I away say that you are here for only one reason and that is
evolution of consciousness.

11.  Do you have any other comments?  When I think of kundalini I think
of the out of body experience, but I know every one has a totally
different experience.

Extra:  What do you hope to get out of this list?  I would like to be
able to talk with other people that went through similar experiences.
It get very only in my Easter egg shell (Body).

If you are unable to send me an E-Mail for some reason then please fax
me. I would love to hear from you.

Aiea, Hawaii 96701
Fax  926-3151


[15]: From: Mary Knapp <>
Subject: Re: back pain 

On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Viviane Brisson wrote:

> For the lumbar problems, I used to control it with strict exercizing almost 
> every day. But lately, I've been feeling more tired since I can't sleep much 
> more than 4 hours a night. So I've been more lenient on the exercises. But I 
> wish to go back on a more strict schedule, since I didn't feel my back way 
> back then...
> 
> I tried melatonin and various herbs such as valerian and they work a little, 
> but I think they're just crutches...
> 
> Any suggestions out there?
> 

> >
> >I also have back problems and would like to know how you all handle it.
> >
> >Karol Ann
> >
> SnowbirdVATNOSPAMgnn.com
> 

I have a padded piano bench at the foot of my bed.  Three or four times a
day I lie on it and stretch.  I put my legs straight up in the air and the
pressure from that seems to straighten out my lower spine.  I drop my head
and sholders and arms down the other end.  I have had no lower back pain
since I started this routine about 5 years ago.  Before that there were
frequent trips to the chiropractor.  It feels like a good adjustment.
Sometimes I feel and/or hear that pop one can feel at the chiropractor's.
This takes less than 30 seconds and can be done frequently throughout the
day.  Morning, evening and afternoon are perhaps a minimum.  Oh ... I am
about 2 inches taller now as a seeming side effect.

For upper back and sholders etc. I keep small weights by the tv and
stretch with them every which way. Toutching my toes with them seems to
stretch out the lower back but I only do this when I feel the need because
of discomfort in my upper back.

Sometimes I also do some stretching exercises in bed in the morning.  They
probably have yoga names but I seem to have come by them intuitively.  My
daughter used to laugh at me for trying to exercise in bed, but it seems
to do the trick for me. If nothing else I am very limber by the time I
actually get up. 

I hope this is of some help.

Mary