[1]: From: Carlo Izzo
Subject: Re: tolerance

Gloria Greco wrote:

> Judy,
> HI, thanks for your comments, I'm waiting to see what the responce is from
> the group.  I do believe it is unfortunate that people get caught up in
> spiritual vocabulary, I have a western background, with a very eastern
> understanding woven through it.  But, I communicate very much in relationship
> to divine will as the carrier of the Holy Spirit. There are terms like prana,
> Skati and verious words used to relate to polarity such as the self and not
> self yin and yang, lower self, higher self, because  all religions relate to
> the spiritual truth. Since yoga means union, in the Muslim religion the
> concept of union is expressed through the word Islam which means surrender of
> the lower to the higher principle of the self. This to me is alignment to
> divine will which centers ones attention on the undoing process, and death of
> the ego. 

	My wife says - and I write:

	I am very much interested also in Zen Buddhism. I have just found
	this illuminating passage by Zen Master Mi-an:

	"Many people study Zen, but encounter Zen teachers without clear
	perception of truth. They make arbitrary explanations and take
	their subjective interpretation of Zen teachings for final truths.
	Their aim is to be recognized as understanding Zen. This is a most
	serious malady.".
> 
> I have been experiencing kundalini for so long that when I talk about it, it
> comes out direct and to the point. I believe one person called my
> communication " opinion not fact"  Well, you wouldn't know if it is fact or
> not unless you try it and find out from personal experience that it is not
> true.  Everything I talk about is from direct personal experience. I don't
> communicate on a subject unless it is something that I work with daily in
> discipline. But, again, I speak direct and to the point. This may bother
> some, and I'm sorry about that. I don't prethink what I  say, I always speak
> and write spontaneously, and when spirit communicates it does come through
> with power. That is also a result of kundalini and the Holy Spirit working as
> one.  

	And this one is from Master Fayan:

	"The purpose of Zen is to enable people to immediately transcend
	the ordinary and the holy, just getting people to awaken on their
	own."

	And he added:

	"Many people in modern times disregard this. They may join Zen
	groups, but they are lazy about Zen study. Even if they achieve
	concentration, they do not choose real teachers. Through the errors
	of false teachers, they likewise lose the way. Without having
	understood senses and objects, as soon as they possess themselves
	of some false interpretation they become obsessed by it and lose 
	the correct basis completely. They are only interested in becoming
	leaders and being known as teachers. While they value an empty
	reputation in the world, they bring ill on themselves. Not only
	do they make their successors blind and deaf, they also cause
	the influence of Zen to degenerate."
> 
> There are not a whole lot of people that can talk about kundalini from direct
> experience that also can at will move to any center, see and understand its
> frequency, light, sound, color, etc.  because it is being directed by the
> Holy Spirit from  the crown chakra.  

	Zen Master Fayan said: "It is wrong to act as a teacher of others
	before your own mind ground is clearly illumined."

> This should be valuable information to
> receive without charge over a computer ... 

	"I just point out where you're right. If you're wrong, I'll never 
	say you're right. I'll wait until you *are* right. I'll only agree 
	with you when you're right."  (Zen Master Foyan)

> especially to those who are having
> problems.  I have been through many what I call eruptions, or volcanic blow
> outs in my time, and I can share what to do with those who are having this
> kind of experience.  But, this is not my discussion group. And, I respect the
> people doing it, I know if it is God's Will for me to continue, I will, if
> not, it is perfectly fine with me.  

	"In modern times, Zen and Buddhism have become extremely degenerate.
	There are incompetent teachers who basically lack enlightenment
	themselves and have chaotic, ureliable consciousness. Lacking true
	skills, they take in students and teach everyone to be like
	themselves."  (Zen Master Dahui)

> God Bless All.  GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
> Gloria Greco
> 
	God Bless You.

	Zana Izzo


 [2]: From: jenny.hillATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu (Jennifer Hill)
Subject: response to Patti's post on June 7 and a word on RC counseling

Hi all--
 I think this is going out to everyone on the Kundalini list, but I couldn't 
find a way to respond just to Patti, so I apologize in advance if this was 
the wrong way to go about it. Also, I'm not sure anything else from me has 
been posted yet, as I'm new to this site ( and very grateful for it, as 
everyone else seems to be, too.) The story of my first, and recent, 
fullblown kundalini experience should be posted soon. I sent it to Bill P. 
not knowing where else to send it and today I just gave him permission to 
post it on this site. 

Patti- you mentioned wishing to be able to deal with the migraines without 
drugs, or at least that's what I think you meant here: 

>I would like to know how to deal with my migraines, which seem to be getting
>worse and worse over time. I am reluctant to take drugs to prevent them, for
>I have heard that resisted kundalini is far more dangerous than when one
>lets it just do its thing. But, my migraines are so bad that at times I
>couldn't even be moved to be taken to an emergency room. Now with Imitrex
>and painkillers, I cope, but I have to keep telling my doctor something
>about what I am doing about this situation ....

I have a couple of suggestions, well, several really. I'm a bodyworker and 
do lots of work with energy and other modes of healing. I usually hesitate 
to give advice, but I know the migraines can be killers. So, first I suggest 
a book called "MAP: the White Brotherhood Medical Assistance Program" by 
Machelle Wright.

OK now first let me say that I know this sounds like something from the ku 
klux klan or some other white supremecists, but it's not. The white 
brotherhood refers to a group of "ascended souls" like Jesus and other 
saints, or bodhisattvas, or however you think of those folks.  Machelle 
Wright also wrote "Behaving As If The God In All Life Mattered." 
She has done extensive work with nature spirits for growing and using 
plants, medicinally and as food, and  this is work that she pursued with the 
folks at the Findhorn Community in Scotland, (if that means anything to 
you.) She says in the introduction to the MAP book that she felt that due to 
her constant work with the nature and plant spirits, her spirit began to 
evolve and that part of this evolution involved an expansion of the 
cranial/meningeal fluid and caused a subsequent need for expansion of the 
cranial plates in her skull. Because the knitted joints of the skull are 
pretty inflexible in adults, this was causing her to have massive headaches. 
Initially she found a chiropractor who did craniosacral therapy who was able 
to help the cranial plates expand sufficiently to relieve the pain. 
Eventually though, she needed more help, and looked for help to a group of 
spirit beings who had been making themselves apparent to her as she did her 
work with the plant and nature spirits. These entities identified themselves 
as being members of the white brotherhood and said that they were here to 
assist humans with the process of spiritual evolution which is becoming more 
and more accelerated these days, and which a lot of people are going to need 
help with adapting to the physical changes. They also told Machelle to write 
this book so that they could make their help available to a wide range of 
people. 
With the help of her white brotherhood medical assistance team, Machelle's 
headache's went away, and her work began to focus on helping people work 
with this resource.

When I was introduced to this book and its concepts, I have to admit at 
first I was really skeptical, not having had any experience with any kind of 
spirit entities, nor being particularly interested in having any. But the 
woman who told me about this is one of the most practical and down-to-earth 
folks I've ever known, and when she told me about her experiences with her 
white brotherhood medical team, I felt I had to try it.
And I believe that it was work with my MAP team, among other things, that 
cleared the path for my first kundalini experience. Even though Machelle 
never refers to kundalini directly, it seems to me that the kind of 
spiritual evolution she was talking about is the same brought about by 
kundalini experiences. At any rate, I have been working with my own personal 
white brotherhood MAP team now for a year, and the transformative 
experiences have been phenomenal, not the least of which has been my first 
full blown kundalini release. I'm convinced that working with a MAP team 
would give you tremendous relief with the migraines and any other physical 
difficulties. If you're interested and can't find the book, email me and 
I'll give you an address from which you can order it directly. 

If that option doesn't seem quite right for you, I'd  also like to suggest 
finding either a network chiropractor, craniosacral therapist, Trager 
practitioner,  or Reiki practitioner. I've recieved treatments from all of 
the above and practice Reiki and Trager myself. The thing all of those modes 
of treatment have in common is working with the wisdom of the body receiving 
treatment to release energy blockages in an apprpriate way. I know from 
personal experience that Reiki treatments can even stop a fullblown migraine 
in progress. I;ve worked with clients who's migraines were so bad they 
literally couldn't move, and would've been in the hospital if they could've 
moved. One very nice thing, as far as migraines are concerned, is that Reiki 
doesn't even require being touched, it can be done from near but not 
touching, or even by someone who isn't physically in the same room. 

Network chiropractic, and all the other modalities I mentioned, are good 
preventatives, and Network has the advantage of assuming that kundalini 
release is a likely result of receiving treatment. (There's little or no 
"bone popping" in Network, by the way, it's an energy techique designed to 
assist the body in releasing distortions and blockages in the central 
nervous system, and the primary kundalini channel.) I could probably find 
out if there;s a Network practitioner in your area from my Network 
chiropracter, if you're interested.

The other thing I'd suggest for any one working with kundalini is a practice 
called Re-evaluation Co-counseling. It's a peer counseling technique which, 
much like Network Chiro. and a lot of other healing methods, assumes that we 
were all born perfect beings with an unlimited capacity for vast 
intelligence, zestful and limitless health,  and loving cooperation with 
others; and that we were born with a flawless mechanism* for healing any 
trauma that we might experience, so that we're left unscarred and fully 
functional. ( *sound like kundalini, anyone?) The very simple premise is 
that our ability to heal has been interfered with since the day we were 
born, (or perhaps even before then) and that all of the physical problems 
and emotional limits and baggage we carry are simply unhealed trauma waiting 
to be healed. The way we can get this healing process started up again is by 
having the clear, undistressed, positive, and interested attention of 
another person, and then our bodies, with perhaps a little encouragement 
from this person, will spontaneously begin to heal. All the supporting 
person need do is continue to support and encourage whatever the body 
chooses to bring about ( usually a lot of interested talking accompanied by 
laughing, crying, sweating, yawning, sighing, shaking, and often a 
re-experiencing of the original traumas) and reassure the person that what 
they are experiencing, no matter how momentarily distressing, is the healing 
process in action. 

The name "re-evaluation co-counseling" refers to the idea that as the 
healing of old trauma occurs, the ability to think flexibly and rationally 
improves and that one re-evaluates reality without the distorted thinking 
that was caused by old hurts. The "co-counseling" refers to the fact that 
this healing work is intended to be done by people on a peer, 
"non-professional" basis, with counseling partners trading equal time for 
giving and receiving attention. This counseling technique never mentions 
kundalini, or energy blocks, or any other metaphysical terms, but the 
process is, in my experience, a very powerful and direct method of removing 
the impediments to kundalini flow. 

Anyone interested in learning more about this work can email me and I'll be 
happy to send addresses for getting literature on the subject, and  I can 
find a local contact in your area to find out about taking classes. This 
work is done on a grass roots level in each community, but is part of a 
larger international organization, and is a non-profit and made known only 
through word of mouth.

I apologize to all if this post was way too long. It's my first time posting 
to any web group, so if there's a more appropriate way to do a long post, 
please let me know. 

Once again I'd like to express gratitude for this website and all the 
contributors to and maintainers of it. I especially found the personal 
experience posts invaluable, they explained a lot of strange things I've 
been through. 

Please feel free to email me

Jenny

----------------------------------------------------------
Jenny Hill, research associate/editor--Directory of Texas Manufacturers
Bureau of Business Research, UT Austin, PO Box 7459, Austin TX 78713-7459
email: jenny.hillATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu  512-475-7805 or 512-475-7807


 
 [3]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: The Bee Buzzing

Jim,
No it isn't a coincidence, not only will you hear bees but on going creative
sounds 24 hours a day. You get use to it, it is the creative sound, the AUM.
 And once, you are at one with the sound, it is very much like being at one
with the spiritual stream (new words folks)which keeps you in a more detached
state of mind.  When something around you or inside changes, say for instance
a telepathic communication, you hear a very high pitched sound.  Sometimes
that sound will change 2, 3 or even 4 times, which is adjusting your
spiritual frequency. Does this make any sense to you? Observe yourself in it,
and see what is coming to you. Gloria 


 [4]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!

Iver,
You are getting regular kundalini releases it sounds like to me. What I
recommend is that you work on detachment. Detachment is clearly half of the
spiritual discipline because you must learn to stand by and observe many,
many, bazaar symptoms. When you know you are NOT your body, but you are a
passenger using it to refine your spiritual development, then you are aided
tremendously. For instance, about every six months or so, I have a very
dramatic experience when it feels like my brains are smoldering in a 500
degree oven. This continues for a day or days, depending on what chakra is
being stepped up to another frequency. This is not pleasant by any means, but
when you are detached you move with it, knowing it is an illusion. And that
it will pass. One thing I recommend to help you to get into that space is get
in the water a lot. In cold weather it can be hot water, but in hot weather
it should be very cool water. This water helps calm and relax the body so you
don't fight it, and it cleans your aura especially if you meditate while
doing it. I know you guys don't like to hear this, but there are spirts all
around you at any given time. They manipulate every negative situation to
cause problems. I won't say anymore. Gloria


 [5]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: tolerance

Nice talking to you. Thanks for the input. Gloria


 [6]: From: GgjiATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: response to Patti's post on June 7 and a word on RC counseling

HI Jenny,
Nice talking to you, and you had some good suggestions. I will add one more,
it is my experience that the headache comes on whenever the waste is building
up in the body. I know from the feeling in my body what needs to be done. In
my case I use magnesium tablets to keep my colon clean. As soon as the waste
is out the headache usually vanishes. Drink a lot of water, and go every day,
no matter what you have to do.  Now that's getting down to the bottom of it.
Gloria


 [7]: From: bpeayATNOSPAMaloha.net (Bill Peay)
Subject: Jenny's kundalini experience

Recently Jenny Hill wrote:
>
>Hi all--
> I think this is going out to everyone on the Kundalini list, but I couldn't
>find a way to respond just to Patti, so I apologize in advance if this was
>the wrong way to go about it. Also, I'm not sure anything else from me has
>been posted yet, as I'm new to this site ( and very grateful for it, as
>everyone else seems to be, too.) The story of my first, and recent,
>fullblown kundalini experience should be posted soon. I sent it to Bill P.
>not knowing where else to send it and today I just gave him permission to
>post it on this site.
>

In a separate message, Jenny indicated she has another paragraph to add,
but wanted me to post this anyway (we'll add the missing parts for the Web
posted version later). So here's what Jenny wrote. It's an amazing story.

From: jenny.hillATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu (Jennifer Hill)
Subject: I just found Kundalini Resources website

Hi Bill--
I just found the Kundalini Resources website and was really glad to find it.
I'm a 39 yr-old woman healer/bodyworker and  have been doing that kind of
work for about 12 years now. The last few years I've discovered healing
techniques that are very powerful at removing energy blockages, and the more
I use them for myself, the "stranger" my life gets. This last year in
particular has led me to working with shaman practices and to learning and
working with a group of Wiccans doing energy work. It is directly due to
working with the shaman practices and Wiccan work that I believe I had my
first kundalini experience recently. (and slightly less directly but JUST as
importantly due to the other work I've done, chiefly RC co-counseling,
Network chiropractic, Reiki energy work and other bodywork modalities, tai
chi, work with prayer and guardians,  and MAP healing work.)

Fortunately I already had some idea of what a Kundalini release might be
like, thanks to information from Network chiropractic, and, oddly enough,
from a book of my roommate's called _Kundalini Energy and Christian
Spirituality_ (or something like that.) (my roommate's very into esoteric
Christianity and Gurdjieff's teachings via a church here called the Church
of Conscious Harmony.) Although I'd had some very powerful experiences of
energy moving through my body before, nothing even remotely approximated
the moving of kundalini as I'd heard it described. I just assumed I was one
of those people not destined for that experience, and then it happened.  I'd
like to share my experience with you, since you seem like someone more
familiear with this realm. I also apologize for the length of this letter,
but I couldn't seem to get this story out without including the whole tale.

About a month ago I went to a 4-day Beltane festival out in the Hill country
of Texas, near Austin, where I live. Beltane is the spring festival/ceremony
of Wiccans and other European pagans celebrating fertility and fecundity. It
tends to be a wild event, so I was a little titillated and a lot
apprehensive about going (my first time.) I went with my Wicca friends who,
although not a coven, are a tightly-knit group who've been doing energy
ritual together for a while.

The first night  one of my friends came to get help from me. She had built
up an enormous amount of energy in her body during a ritual (which had lots
of naked bodies and sexual-type movements, although nothing actually sexual)
but she was unable to release the energy or have it move freely in her body.

I could tell she had some kind of major blockages in her sacral and solar
plexus chakras, so I took her back to our campsite to do some release work.
Another of our friends, Forrest, who also does energy healing work came to
assist. I had my friend Heather stand and bend slightly forward from the
waist and start exhaling forcefully from her lower belly and then told her
to let whatever sounds she needed to make come out with her breathe.
Meanwhile Forrest and I stood next to her and supported her. After a few big
breaths and grunts she suddenly began to scream loudly and would've fallen
had we not been holding her. We lowered to the ground on a blanket, and
continued to hold her til eventually the screaming subsided and was replaced
by all sorts of involuntary movements and sounds. Eventually she grew quiet
and was very peaceful and blissful and said that she felt indescribable joy,
lightness and a sense that some very old energy blockages were gone.

We sat with her a while, I was lying on the ground next to her, and then
Forrest and I spontaneously began to do energy work with each other,  sort
of in a remarkable dance. At one point he was holding his hands lightly over
my left ankle, I'd been having trouble with it for about a week as if it had
been sprained but with no apparent cause for the pain. I was lying on my
back at that point, with my hand on Heather's foot. Then as she put her hand
on Forrest's head, a sudden, loud and completely involuntary scream left my
mouth, followed by many more. I remember thinking how strange this whole
thing was, to be screaming from my pelvic bowl all the way up, as loudly as
possible, and not seeming to have any control over it. Then suddenly the
screams changed to heavy wracking sobs, that lasted a few minutes; then
uncontrollable, hard side-splitting laughter. All of this was without any
mental content except for my wondering what the heck was happening to me.
Then the laughter changed into this very forceful breathing, not like any
I've ever experienced, and then just when I thought it must be over, my
whole torso started rippling up and down like a rollercoaster. It was like
someone had my spine by the tailbone and was waving it up and down fairly
forcefully. While this was going on, I was seeing a field of bright electric
blue light, at first just on the edges of my vision, and eventually it
spread across my entire field of vision. Finally the movement subsided and I
lay there on the ground in a state that's hard to describe.

On the one hand my  mind was racing trying to take in everything that had
just happened and make some kind of sense out of it. On the other hand,
though, I was practically levitating with what I can only describe as
ecstasy. Everything around me was completely, exquisitely beautiful, ( a
moonless, clear starry night overhead) and I seem to remember something
about being very aware of how everything kind of fell into place and made
sense in a very profound, "cosmic" way. I was totally peaceful, but at the
same time, vibrating and overflowing with a tremendous amount of energy. For
a little while all I could do was lie there and say "wow" over and over
again. Then I began to do the energy healing exchange dance again with
Forrest. He had a very intense regression experience, going back to a
frightening and painful childhood experience. I ended up sitting and holding
him in my arms for a long time til eventually he came back to the present
feeling good and refreshed and curious but not disturbed about the
regression.  Needless to say, the rest of the weekend was very profound and
wonderful for all of us.

Since then, the changes in my life seem to be accelerating, all for the
good, and I have increased energy and sense of well-being. That's fairly
major, too, because for most of my life I've battled fatigue and/or
depression, and this event seems to have caused a major shift in that
regard. One of the best things since then is that, more and more, my healing
work is incorporating all the things I know how to do but had previously
thought might be too "strange" for my average client. It's exhilarating to
get to help people in their profound healing. I don't have any clear ideas
about how to replicate the kundalini experience, but  I have no doubt that
there will be more, when the time is right.

I am extremely grateful for the chance to share my experience with others
who know what this is all about. Thanks so much for the website! Let me know
if you;re ever in this area. I'd love to share information about bodywork
and kundalini liberation if you're interested in correspondence on that.



blessed be!
Jenny Hill

jhillATNOSPAMhoovers.com
 or
jenny.hillATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu

p.s.
Oh by the way, I dont' consider myself Wiccan just yet, I'm new to the whole
thing and am not sure that's a path for me. Obviously I'm pagan friendly
though; I say this as sort of a caveat because here in Texas people are
still pretty superstitious/ignorant about these things and it comes as a
habit to explain/feel out receptivity toward things pagan. As far as I'm
concerned it's just another flavor of spirituality. I'm guessing in Hawaii
there's a little more tolerance for non-Judeo/ Christian flavors.

--------

Yes, Jenny, Hawaii, with all the cultures of the Pacific Rim, and then
some, is very open, accepting, and understanding of a multitude of paths.
Kauai, the Island my wife and I live on, is a heaven for bodyworkers and
spiritual healers. I grew up in New Mexico, next door to Texas, so I know
what you're up against regarding accepting alternative belief structures.
Just remember, here in cyber-space, and especially here among those
interested in kundalini, you are among friends and supporters. I hope
you'll be a regular contributor to this list. We need a balance of
opinions...

Aloha Nui Loa,

Bill


 [8]: From: Iver Juster
Subject: Favorite Kundalini books

One of my favorite books of all time is Kundalini, Enlightenment, and
Evolution by John White, editor.   (available by special order from
Amazon.com books.)  It discusses evolution from a number of the great
religious thinkers (mostly from INdia- also the scientific and medical data,
plus personal  histories. I found it a good solid reference, very
comprehensive. John White is the editor and he puts together a good overall
picture.. I must have stayed up all night reading it when I found it many
years ago. (It was written in 1979 and rereleased in 1990.)

My other favorite is the perennial "The Kundlini Experinece" by Dr. Lee
Sanella. He is a doctor who writes strictly from a medical and anecdotal
perspective. From a doctor!!! yay, someone out there is listening! HE too
wrote the first edition way back when, and has been rereleased a few times.

Best, Patti