To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/30 05:40
Subject: RE: [K-list] Tantra Adam and Eve etc
From: Marion Hanvey

Dear Wim,
Maybe I shouldn't be putting my 2 cents worth in here, because it's Tony's
post. Anyway, just some of my thoughts. To quote knowledge from books, or
knowledge learned off other people is not necessarily just showing-off or
posing. (Which I am sure you didn't mean when you wrote your post anyway.)
Sometimes when you read something, or you hear something from some
enlightened person, it rings a bell with you. "Oh yes that feels true."
Somewhere deep inside a light shines,
and you just know it's right.
The reason why we are not realizing our full potential, I think, and I'm
speaking personally here of my own life, is that we are living on what I
call the "outside edge". That is the small part of our existence that is
lived in this world of name and form, the body, the mind, the ego, the
emotions, memories, opinions, judgements day to day life. All that stuff.
Instead of going inside and relaxing into the Being. Nobody is seeking to
impress anybody. What would be the point? Impressing somone is just ego
and ego is only relatively real, it's not the true Being or Existence. I
don't think anyone on this list is still beguiled or confused by ego, they
wouldn't be here
doing these practises if they were.
Loulou

>From: Wim Borsboom <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
>Reply-To: aurasphereATnospamhome.com
>To: Tony O'Clery <aocleryATnospamyahoo.com>
>CC: kundaliniATnospamtopica.com
>Subject: RE: [K-list] Tantra Adam and Eve etc
>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:31:05 -0800
>
>Dear Tony,
>
>You wrote:
> >My understanding of Avatar is that the Christ
> >Consciousness is more manifested in such a being, and
> >this occurs during/after the dispensation of
> >childhood.
>
>I am still struck by Sai saying (as you wrote before) that we are all
>avatars... (or 'gods' as Jesus says). Still wondering how come most of us
>don't live avataric, ('the life divine' according to Aurobindo). Sai Baba
>is
>so right though... (or Jesus or Aurobindo or ....) So, where are most of us
>missing the boat. In my previous post to you, in which I recounted some of
>my early childhood memories, I wanted to convey how as a child I started to
>uncover and recover that sense of avatarhood or Christ consciousness (or
>whatever). 'T is hard to write about that... coinceit is so close to
>honesty
>and frankness.
>So, how do we miss the boat, or fall out of the thing...? It must be in the
>difference between mental understanding, external knowing and original
>innate being, authenticity. Somewhere, very early in life we lose that
>direct relationship with our real being... A kind of physical/mental
>astigmatism. It is not my intention to try to start figuring this out, just
>some quick thoughts on this...
>Of course like so many people I have read a lot over time. What a great
>library of books I have, and look at my reading list... blah...
>blah...blah... :-)
>I notice that you quote Aurobindo, neat, very neat! Have read many of his
>books, stacks actually... But, over time something changed in my way of
>reading. I started to read to... absorb, digest, to BE the
>learned-and-read-stuff. Not sure if I can express that well enough, hope
>you
>get my drift. I did not want to 'learn-and-display' for the sake of
>'learning-and-displaying'. I ended up not being able to quote so easily
>anymore... Had to give it up, have learned to give that up.
>Do not be offended by what follows.
>I concluded at some point that quoting knowledge is quite comparable to
>hypocritical behaviour. I may be wrong, but I think that I came by this
>conclusion honestly, a healthy dose of (often sharp) criticism by others
>and... benevolent self-criticism in the end. Caught myself doing the
>intelligent-quoting-bit a few times too often... I did and could not feel
>authentic that way anymore. They (who?) teach you this 'spouting knowledge'
>at school, college, university. There is a use for it in 'academia' of
>course, I do not dispute that. But I found that a quoting scholar is too
>often comparable to a hypocritical do-gooder. As one learns and discovers
>from other ppl's learnings and discoveries one CAN stay authentic and
>original. A quoting scholar is often very much like a well dressed-up
>person who keeps telling the world where the designer-stuff was bought and
>for how much. You know, "Such a bore!"
>We maybe what we eat, but we are not the brandnames on the packages that we
>get the nutrients from. Etc. Etc.
>Please do not take this personally, I do not mean it that way. I don't
>mean
>it judgementally. I just want to carry on with this train of thought here.
>I
>may be full of beans, but I want to try, having nothing to lose but false
>pride :-)
>A hypocrytical person may be praising God... but mostly to be SEEN praising
>God. Similarly...a scholar may be spouting tit-bits of knowledge, but too
>often to be seen and to be acknowledged as quoting tit-bits intelligibly.
>I am trying to point at the separation between *understanding* (indirect,
>objective,alienated) and *being* (direct, subjective, innate), how that
>separation may have developed... and how by interrupting this seperative
>dynamic we can become direct again, innately avataric... So ham.
>Let me remember an example of how and when I became aware of the
>*understanding / being* split...? O yes, I was 'studying' Castaneda's Don
>Juan books. It struck me at one point that Don Juan wanted Carlos to claim
>knowledge as power... Had to think hard and long about that one.
>
>Aurobindo's recognition of the descent of Krishna in the physical, was a
>real physical energetic dated occurrence, just like my Christ / Me
>Communion
>when at that instant the dated-ness and place-ness of the occurrence
>dissolved.
>At some point we have to stop acquiring knowledge, learning, understanding,
>deliberating, debating, postulating, conceptualizing. I bet you most of us
>know enough to be enlightened ten times over. We should urge ourselves to
>be
>what we know... so that we do not under-stand anymore (the original word is
>actually 'suppose': 'sub-pose') but stand in our own footsteps, being, now.
>
>
> >With regard to Adam and Eve, there were many Adams and
> >Eves of course, it is a name for the whole race. The
> >serpent was Kundalini, and the knowledge was what they
> >achieved by raising it, whether this was done sexually
> >or not is really not important. Adam (humankind)
> >already had a mixture wife Lilith, both at this time
> >androgynous. Eve was just the representation of the
> >separation of humans into female and male bodies
> >that's all, Adam's rib parable. So sex was something
> >they were already familiar with, it was 'knowledge'
> >they required.
>
>
>In fact they claimed that 'knowledge' as power, energy, BEING.
>That is what Kundalini does.
>This then caused a backlash by the old tribal powermonger... as represented
>by a judgemental surrogate god.
>
>I appreciate what you write, allow me to coach a bit though. Too much
>propositioning, deliberations, etc., if I may say so. After I gave it all
>up, I actually remembered... The 'Adam and Eve' episode is not some kind of
>parable, it happened.
>
>Deliberation eventually stops one from being
>Knowing eventually separates one from being
>Conceptualizing eventually separates one from being
>Those kind of activities are actually mental compulsions
>
> >ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
> >THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
> >MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
> >OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
>
>
>Yes, yes, yes.
>
>Love, Wim
>
>
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