To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/30 04:31
Subject: Digest for kundaliniATnospamtopica.com, issue 9
From: Kundalini

-- Topica Digest --
 Re: Tantrika Mahasiddhas? By martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk
   Tantra Adam and Eve etc
 By aocleryATnospamyahoo.com
 Re: Tantra Adam and Eve etc By loulou_3ATnospamhotmail.com
   Re: Tantra Adam and Eve etc
 By aocleryATnospamyahoo.com
 Bye Bye, List By alingimpATnospamhome.com
   Re: Tantra Adam and Eve etc
 By aurasphereATnospamhome.com
 check only By kandulATnospamg-net.net
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:45:36 +0000
From: Martin Thompson Subject: Re: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?

11:19:34 Mon, 27 Dec 1999 Tony O'Clery at Tony O'Clery writes:
>My guess is that these tales we hear, from time to >time, from all over, about strange group sex and dope
>etc are due to this misunderstanding.
Quite likely. Another possibility in some cases may be that the guru wishes to shatter the transference of the pupils. By behaving in a
reprehensible manner, he reminds them that he is human and they must think for themselves and follow their own path instead of blindly
swallowing every word he says. --
Martin Thompson martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk London, UK
    Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk Free Regular Income: http://www.virtualis.com/vr/mthomps4/vrp.html
"Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:36:01 -0800 (PST) From: Tony O'Clery
Cc: KundaliniATnospamtopica.com Subject: Tantra Adam and Eve etc

Namaste Wim et al,
My understanding of Avatar is that the Christ Conscious ness is more manifested in such a being, and
this occurs during/after the dispensation of childhood.
With regard to Adam and Eve, there were many Adams and
Eves of course, it is a name for the whole race. The serpent was Kundalini, and the knowledge was what they
achieved by raising it, whether this was done sexually or not is really not important. Adam (humankind)
already had a mixture wife Lilith, both at this time androgynous. Eve was just the representation of the
separation of humans into female and male bodies that's all, Adam's rib parable. So sex was something
they were already familiar with, it was 'knowledge' they required.
With regard to the Avataric concept:-Below is the
passage from "Sri Aurobindo on Himself and on the Mother"
1953 ed., p 208
Quote:
Krishna and the Supermind 24th (November 1926) was the descent of Krishna into
the physical. Krishna is not the Supramental Light. The descent of
Krishna would mean the
descent of the Overmind Godhead preparing, though not itself actually,
the descent of Supermind and Ananda. Krishna is the
Anandamaya; he supports the
evolution through the Overmind leading it towards the Ananda.
29-10-1935
Love Tony.
=====
Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham! http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/
ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. __________________
Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 12:32:35 PST
From: "Marion Hanvey" Cc: kundaliniATnospamtopica.com
Subject: Re: [K-list] Tantra Adam and Eve etc
Dear Tony,
My teaching has been like Jesus' parables. Krishna is the joy within. His uncle the enemy was the king, "ego". When the king heard that Krishna would
be born, he put his own sister in jail. So Krishna was born in a prison. The prison was the body. When the guards; that is,
the senses, fell asleep, the bliss was born. But it is not enough for the bliss just to be born, it has to grow up. so Krishna was taken across the
River Jamuna (Jamuna means love. True love) to live with his foster-parents. There he grew up.
Whether Krishna actually lived, I don't know. I don't think it matters. Many things can have layers and layers.
Either way, Krishna means "that which is very attractive", and that lives within each one of us. We just have to find it. (If anyone knows a quick
route tell me!)
Loulou

>From: Tony O'Clery >Reply-To: aocleryATnospamyahoo.com
>To: aurasphereATnospamhome.com >CC: kundaliniATnospamtopica.com
>Subject: [K-list] Tantra Adam and Eve etc >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:36:04 -0800
> >Namaste Wim et al,
> >My understanding of Avatar is that the Christ
>Conscious ness is more manifested in such a being, and >this occurs during/after the dispensation of
>childhood. >
>With regard to Adam and Eve, there were many Adams and >Eves of course, it is a name for the whole race. The
>serpent was Kundalini, and the knowledge was what they >achieved by raising it, whether this was done sexually
>or not is really not important. Adam (humankind) >already had a mixture wife Lilith, both at this time
>androgynous. Eve was just the representation of the >separation of humans into female and male bodies
>that's all, Adam's rib parable. So sex was something >they were already familiar with, it was 'knowledge'
>they required. >
>With regard to the Avataric concept:-Below is the >passage from "Sri Aurobindo on Himself and on the
>Mother" >1953
>ed., p 208 >
>Quote: >Krishna and the Supermind
>24th (November 1926) was the descent of Krishna into >the physical.
>Krishna is not the Supramental Light. The descent of >Krishna would mean
>the >descent of the Overmind Godhead preparing, though not
>itself actually, >the
>descent of Supermind and Ananda. Krishna is the >Anandamaya; he supports
>the >evolution through the Overmind leading it towards the
>Ananda. >29-10-1935
> >Love Tony.
> >
>===== >Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!
>http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/ >
>ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real, >THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
>MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality. >OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
>__________________ >Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com
> >Unsubscribe from this list by sending email to:
>kundalini-unsubscribeATnospamtopica.com >
>_____________________________ >Get your favorite topic delivered daily.
>http://www.topica.com/t/11
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:40:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Tony O'Clery Cc: KundaliniATnospamtopica.com
Subject: Re: [K-list] Tantra Adam and Eve etc
  Namaste All, Marion,
Loulou wrote:-
> Many things can have layers and layers. > Either way, Krishna means "that which is very
> attractive", and that lives > within each one of us. We just have to find it.
> (If anyone knows a quick > route tell me!)
> > Loulou
Some more stuff here indicating what I was driving at;
That an Avatar is not a person but a consciousness put on by some people. Christ or Krishan Consciousness=the
same thing! "24th [November 1926] was the descent of Krishna
into the physical.
     Krishna is not the supramental Light. The descent
of Krishna would mean the descent of the Overmind Godhead preparing,
though not itself actually, the descent of Supermind and Ananda. Krishna
is the Anandamaya; he supports the evolution through the
Overmind leading it towards the Ananda."
I suppose it is as quick as one is ready, some are green fruit some are ripe and ready to fall off the
tree. My mind gets in the way unless I am meditating, it is a matter of love and getting rid of past
impressions I suppose, it can happen in an instant! Putting on 'the Christ', Krisna or whatever.
Love Tony.

=====
Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham! http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/
ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace. __________________
Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:19:21 -0800
From: "alingimp" Subject: Bye Bye, List

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF5210.14D7BAE0 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to wish everyone good bye because I am leaving this list. It =
has been as interesting as it has been frustrating at times to be on = this list. Sometimes there was a good exchange going on on and sometimes =
the dialogue descended to plain old arguing and nit-picking.
It was a good learning experience for me to be here, but now it's time = for me to move on. Thank you, Mystress for being there and taking the =
time to reply to some of my posts. Your input has been very helpful and = I came to be quite fond of you, because I sense a lot of genuine =
compassion in you.
As for the rest of you, it has been nice to exchange some of my = thoughts, although I don't feel that I got to know any of you as well as =
I would have wished.
Love, Karin
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF5210.14D7BAE0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi everyone,  
Just wanted to wish everyone good bye because I am leaving this = list. It=20
has been as interesting as it has been frustrating at times to be on = this list.=20
Sometimes there was a good exchange going on on and sometimes the = dialogue=20
descended to plain old arguing and nit-picking.  
It was a good learning experience for me to be here, but now it's = time for=20
me to move on. Thank you, Mystress for being there and taking the time = to reply=20
to some of my posts. Your input has been very helpful and I came to be = quite=20
fond of you, because I sense a lot of genuine compassion in you.  
As for the rest of you, it has been nice to exchange some of my = thoughts,=20
although I don't feel that I got to know any of you as well as I would = have=20
wished.  
Love, Karin  
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF5210.14D7BAE0--

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:32:02 -0800
From: "Wim Borsboom" Cc:
Subject: Re: Tantra Adam and Eve etc
Dear Tony,
You wrote:
>My understanding of Avatar is that the Christ >Consciousness is more manifested in such a being, and
>this occurs during/after the dispensation of >childhood.
I am still struck by Sai saying (as you wrote before) that we are all
avatars... (or 'gods' as Jesus says). Still wondering how come most of us don't live avataric, ('the life divine' according to Aurobindo). Sai Baba is
so right though... (or Jesus or Aurobindo or ....) So, where are most of us missing the boat. In my previous post to you, in which I recounted some of
my early childhood memories, I wanted to convey how as a child I started to uncover and recover that sense of avatarhood or Christ consciousness (or
whatever). 'T is hard to write about that... coinceit is so close to honesty and frankness.
So, how do we miss the boat, or fall out of the thing...? It must be in the difference between mental understanding, external knowing and original
innate being, authenticity. Somewhere, very early in life we lose that direct relationship with our real being... A kind of physical/mental
astigmatism. It is not my intention to try to start figuring this out, just some quick thoughts on this...
Of course like so many people I have read a lot over time. What a great library of books I have, and look at my reading list... blah...
blah...blah... :-) I notice that you quote Aurobindo, neat, very neat! Have read many of his
books, stacks actually... But, over time something changed in my way of reading. I started to read to... absorb, digest, to BE the
learned-and-read-stuff. Not sure if I can express that well enough, hope you get my drift. I did not want to 'learn-and-display' for the sake of
'learning-and-displaying'. I ended up not being able to quote so easily anymore... Had to give it up, have learned to give that up.
Do not be offended by what follows. I concluded at some point that quoting knowledge is quite comparable to
hypocritical behaviour. I may be wrong, but I think that I came by this conclusion honestly, a healthy dose of (often sharp) criticism by others
and... benevolent self-criticism in the end. Caught myself doing the intelligent-quoting-bit a few times too often... I did and could not feel
authentic that way anymore. They (who?) teach you this 'spouting knowledge' at school, college, university. There is a use for it in 'academia' of
course, I do not dispute that. But I found that a quoting scholar is too often comparable to a hypocritical do-gooder. As one learns and discovers
from other ppl's learnings and discoveries one CAN stay authentic and original. A quoting scholar is often very much like a well dressed-up
person who keeps telling the world where the designer-stuff was bought and for how much. You know, "Such a bore!"
We maybe what we eat, but we are not the brandnames on the packages that we get the nutrients from. Etc. Etc.
Please do not take this personally, I do not mean it that way. I don't mean it judgementally. I just want to carry on with this train of thought here. I
may be full of beans, but I want to try, having nothing to lose but false pride :-)
A hypocrytical person may be praising God... but mostly to be SEEN praising God. Similarly...a scholar may be spouting tit-bits of knowledge, but too
often to be seen and to be acknowledged as quoting tit-bits intelligibly. I am trying to point at the separation between *understanding* (indirect,
objective,alienated) and *being* (direct, subjective, innate), how that separation may have developed... and how by interrupting this seperative
dynamic we can become direct again, innately avataric... So ham. Let me remember an example of how and when I became aware of the
*understanding / being* split...? O yes, I was 'studying' Castaneda's Don Juan books. It struck me at one point that Don Juan wanted Carlos to claim
knowledge as power... Had to think hard and long about that one.
Aurobindo's recognition of the descent of Krishna in the physical, was a real physical energetic dated occurrence, just like my Christ / Me Communion
when at that instant the dated-ness and place-ness of the occurrence dissolved.
At some point we have to stop acquiring knowledge, learning, understanding, deliberating, debating, postulating, conceptualizing. I bet you most of us
know enough to be enlightened ten times over. We should urge ourselves to be what we know... so that we do not under-stand anymore (the original word is
actually 'suppose': 'sub-pose') but stand in our own footsteps, being, now.
>With regard to Adam and Eve, there were many Adams and
>Eves of course, it is a name for the whole race. The >serpent was Kundalini, and the knowledge was what they
>achieved by raising it, whether this was done sexually >or not is really not important. Adam (humankind)
>already had a mixture wife Lilith, both at this time >androgynous. Eve was just the representation of the
>separation of humans into female and male bodies >that's all, Adam's rib parable. So sex was something
>they were already familiar with, it was 'knowledge' >they required.

In fact they claimed that 'knowledge' as power, energy, BEING. That is what Kundalini does.
This then caused a backlash by the old tribal powermonger... as represented by a judgemental surrogate god.
I appreciate what you write, allow me to coach a bit though. Too much
propositioning, deliberations, etc., if I may say so. After I gave it all up, I actually remembered... The 'Adam and Eve' episode is not some kind of
parable, it happened.
Deliberation eventually stops one from being Knowing eventually separates one from being
Conceptualizing eventually separates one from being Those kind of activities are actually mental compulsions
>ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
>THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light, >MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
>OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
Yes, yes, yes.
Love, Wim

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:43:39 -0500
From: Marsha & Stephen Subject: check only

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_017E_01BF524E.26A15FE0 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
delete-just a check
------=_NextPart_000_017E_01BF524E.26A15FE0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

delete-just a=20
check
------=_NextPart_000_017E_01BF524E.26A15FE0--

------------------------------

Unsubscribe from this list by sending email to: kundalini-unsubscribeATnospamtopica.com
End of kundaliniATnospamtopica.com digest, issue 9

All email addresses on this site have been spam proofed by the addition of ATnospam in place of the symbol. All posts publicly archived with the permission of the people involved. Reproduction for anything other than personal use is prohibited by international copyright law. Thanks to sponsorship from Fire-Serpent.org.

DISCLAIMER!