To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/27 20:16
Subject: Re: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
From: Marion Hanvey

Dear Tony,
I didn't know soham was a tantric mantra!
You learn something new every day.
Maybe we're not told these things because immediately the mind will put a
tag on it, oh tantra -sex-not nice. Or "not for me" We are limited by our
conditioning and the concepts in our minds sometimes.
There probably is no difference really between Yoga and Tantra, and the way
to the river of bliss inside doesn't matter as long as nobody is harmed.
(Anyway we all chant soham every day with the breath!)
Love
Loulou
(P.S. I just sent a similar post to you, but it appears to have got lost.
It may turn up, in which case you'll get it twice. Sorry about that)

>From: Tony O'Clery <aocleryATnospamyahoo.com>
>Reply-To: aocleryATnospamyahoo.com
>To: kundaliniATnospamtopica.com
>Subject: [K-list] Tantrika Mahasiddhas?
>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:19:34 -0800
>
>
>Namaste Brothers and Sisters,
>
>The concept of Avatar is really not a concept that can
>carry over so easily. It is erroneously translated as
>, Messiah, God walks on Earth, Mehdi etc. The word
>means cross-down and Sai says we are all Avatars, the
>difference being Awareness that manifests in
>childhood. However there are other concepts that
>describe the same condition; Jivanmukti, or Tantrika
>Siddha, Mahasiddha, Mahasakti.
>
>Tantra is a very secretive sadhana, and is older than
>the Vedas, older than Adam and Eve, for it is the
>Continuum. Some sadhakas follow a system that involves
>use of the sex organs, Kundalini ojas etc, and this
>is misunderstood by Westerners and Hindu
>Fundamentalists particularly.
>
> Not by all Hindus, the more enlightened Vedantists
>are more understanding of what it is, even if it is
>not their 'bag', so to speak, like myself. One first
>has to understand that morality is relative to a
>society and that there is ultimately no bad or good,
>only that which achieves Moksha. This tantric system
>is called antinomianism, pratilo-man, against the
>norm, paravritti-inversion, Mai-thuna or ritualised
>sexual intercourse.
>
>Tantra is quite secretive but there are some hints,
>starting with Siva/Sakti, quoting the Artharva Veda,
>Magic-Conjuring, Ateeta-Sakti-Hynotism,(mass
>hypnotism), smoking Bhanga, Vijaya, (Cannabis).
>
>Bliss is bliss, sexual bliss is fleeting but it is the
>Sakti. This is why people are attached to it, it is
>the nearest they get to the ecstasy, of Samadhi. It
>is used by some tantric schools to induce sustained
>ecstasy leading to a kind of Savikalpa Samadhi,
>obviously not Nirvikalpa.
>
>They say it is possible for one Tantrika
>Siddha,(Mahasiddha/Avatar), to raise, or lift the
>karma of entire humanity. This has never been achieved
>by any Avatar or Divine Descent yet! So-Ham by the way
>is a tantric mantra. It is my belief that much of the
>misunderstanding, is due to ignorance of the tantra,
>and energies etc.
>
>My guess is that these tales we hear, from time to
>time, from all over, about strange group sex and dope
>etc are due to this misunderstanding. Unless one can
>take one's mind back before religion and even back
>beyond the Tantric parable of Adam and Eve, back
>before right and wrong, one will not understand any of
>this. Not all Tantra is overtly sexual of course.
>What is good in one age may be the reverse in another
>age, it is all relative. The big block to
>understanding spirituality and liberation is
>unnecessary fundamentalism. West or East.
>
>
>Love, Tony.
>
>
>=====
>Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!
>http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/
>
>ASATHO MA SATH GAMAYA, From the unreal lead me to the real,
>THAMASO MA JYOTHIR GAMAYA, From darkness, lead me to light,
>MRITHYOR MA AMRITAM GAMAYA.From death, lead me to immortality.
>OM, SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI. Om, Peace Peace Peace.
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