To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/23 03:42
Subject: Re: [K-list] Nazi Scumbags
From: Robert Weil

Hi Amanda, and Martin,

At 21:48 22/12/99, you wrote:
>
>Hi Martin and rest of list,
>
>I have a few more comments to make on this
>interesting post by Martin:
>
>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:24:37 Martin Thompson wrote:
>
>>To be non-judgemental could be a sort
>>of judgement in itself on occasion.
>
>I had to chew a little on this one. :)
>
>But I see your point.
>
>By saying that non-judgement is "the way
>to go", one may end up judging those who
>do choose judgment as a mode of thinking.

Yes, it can be used as a "walking away" mode of superiority, therefore, ime.

>
>One ends up b/n the rock and hard place. :)
>
>My personal choice in these puzzles is to try
>and extend sympathy to all. :)
>Even those who do not share my views.

How would it be if those ppl then wanted an association with you, based on
normal human interaction? I ask because I am in a similar situation at
present.
>
>OK, it's all a personal choice. :)
>I'm not contending, just thinking out loud.
>
>
snip>But I sometimes wonder whether fascism
>and Nazism was ever throughly understood,
>not as a political force or an economic
>factor, but as a human and spiritual power.
>What was / is the attraction in fascism ?
>
>I have been trying to find that out.

In '95 I was staying at a bed and breakfast place in Yorkshire. The man of
the house was virulently anti-German, based on his war experience, and
according to his wife had a cupboard full of war novels. He didn't connect
that I was half German, and we had a slightly uncomfortable evening meal,
with his wife being embarrassed at his gripes about the "Jerries", and my
reassuring her through gentle diplomacy. After supper we watched TV, and
there was a program about the Nuremburg trials - had to watch that! <LOL>

Well, it was very interesting: it appeared that the Allies actively
suppressed those aspects of Fascism which would have detracted from the
demonising of the creed at the trial - and the trial was mightily
publiscised. E.g. when Goring tried to answer a question about the tenets
of Fascism - which included being close to the land, of ecological
awareness and enabling everyone to work and eat (after a decade of
nightmare inflation and starvation) - his answer was censored in the media.
No oxygen was given to any aspect of Fascism that might have evoked
sympathy for anyone in the dock. They died as scapegoats, having killed
many as scapegoats. Eye for an eye.

So there we were, watching this, the husband becoming visibly restless. His
view had been so easy, black versus white. :) As for me, I was
amazed/amused that this was happening, as well as learning more useful
information. The husband was very quiet afterwards. I felt at that point I
could lightly mention that my father was German (he had left Germany before
the war for ideological reasons).

I have a friend in Vancouver who lived in Germany before and during the
war. He said the Nazi party came to power by giving ppl what they
desperately needed: a stable economy, food, work, transport, and crucially
a way of healing the crushing loss of self-esteem that the ppl had suffered
through WW1 and the stupendous reparations bill imposed by the Allies,
which had crippled the economy so much that money was almost worthless. No
wonder they were popular: they promised to rebuild Germany, the country and
the psyche of the people. They gave them a reason for living. It was only
when they had gained power that the ppl saw the next agenda... And then it
was too late.

>
>I think most ppl are very scared of looking
>directly at this question for fear of seeing
>themselves there.

And if we were ever to see ourselves in the Other, how could we ever be
mobilised for purposes of war? :))
>
>>I'm not quite sure how one would use those energies constructively, but
>>the theoretical possibility exists, I'm sure. Fighting for freedom?
>>Killing for Jesus? I don't know.

Jung said that the man man who has not been through the heat of his
passions cannot master them. I think that unless we can learn to accept the
unacceptable, in ourselves and each other, we can never heal the race.

Of course we are up against the herd instinct, the tribal huddle, the
outcast method and the "not one of us" mechanism... All in the lower brain,
that old mammalian/reptilian knee-jerk dance.
>
>LOL ! The latter does not sound very nice.
>Many ppl have tried that approach.

No worse than enslaving for sugar, or making drug addicts for tea. Things
we do for a hit... :(

You can see where I'm at with this today! I get scared by the human race a
lot. I have to use anger to push my strength out far enough to say "I
wouldn't do that". But I know I have messed ppl around myself, and I've
long been at the point of tiredness with it all. I'm no saint. And messing
up is a main way to learn. What I feel is important is that at the end of
the learning the fool can be accepted to his soul by all of us. And we have
got to be strong enough in our own love to do that. So we've got to see our
limitations and stupidities too.
>
>My personal view on this, the energy and
>its usage, is simply to use the energy of
>contempt of weakness, and the intense wish
>to unite in a particular cause,
>which Nazism and
>fascism in heart is (among other things),
>and direct it to oneself for spiritual means.
>A sort of tantra in other words.

I agree with what you say there, very much. "Pity not the fallen", as
Crowley once said, is my idea of hell. And the reaction to Fascism and
Nazism can be just as vociferous, viz some of the projected anger in Israel
towards the Palestinians (OK here I go into deep water, but I'm partly
Jewish, so I ask permission of my DNA).

Someone came up with a model to describe the process of alcoholism, as a
runaway in the limbic system. The alcoholic fights the addiction because he
sees himself as stronger than the bottle. Then that strength breaks for
some reason, perhaps too much stress, or a moment of weakness, and then he
goes on a bender. Afterwards he's full of remorse, and his self-esteem is
damaged. He then tries to rebuild it by effort of will to be stronger than
the bottle. And so on, in a vicious circle.

Did anyone see a film from 1982 called "Circle of Deceit"? It was German,
might have been Fassbinder. It was filmed in Beirut before it was finally
razed. It concerned a cynical reporter who goes from his crumbling
marrriage to Beirut to interview and record the two sides' goings on. And
the more he sees the more we see the same thing happening on each side:
horror, pain, anger, retaliation, more horror etc. One night he is caught
out after curfew, the shells fall and he ends up in a Palestinian bomb
shelter with families watching TV. A near miss blows the lights, an old man
falls on top of him, and in a blind panic the reporter pulls a knife and
stabs the old man fatally. He runs throught the exploding streets in
horror, back to his plush hotel, where he washes the blood off in the
shower. He ultimately returns to his family to patch up the marriage.
Something in him has learned what many of us never do. There but for the
grace of God...

>
>Accept the feeling is there, accept the
>sensations of weakness and wanting to crush
>that, accept the wants of uniting in a cause,
>and go from there, use the energy in a
>personal and non destructive way.
>
>I don't know, difficult...

So difficult, I don't know if I can resolve it in my personal life at the
moment, I'm asking for grace, coz I can't control what's going on.
>
>Just wanted to share some thoughts on a
>topic that's close to my heart.

Thank you for that!
>
All the best

And in case I don't have opportunity later, Happy Christmas everyone, thank
you for the list, and may the New Year be abundant with the core of our
hearts' desires!

With Love

Rob

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