To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/22 10:50
Subject: [K-list] Shootout
From: winter mute

On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:03:49 MHortling wrote:

>Squabbling about experiences and the validity thereof is silly - all
>experiences happen within the One Life, no point of view or path is
>ultimately "truer" than the other. Division is only created in the mind, it's
>not really real.

Yup, that's how I see it too. :))
In the end, it's the experience that counts and
yoga and most Indian traditions are based
on experience.

I must tell you, I have enjoy reading old
stuff a lot;
the Yoga Sutras, Zen writings,
the Tao Te Ching, everything I could lay my
clammy little paws on. ;)

But every time have I been completely
surprised when Kundalini has illustrated some
of the old stuff with practical experience.
My perceivements of how the things that are
described in the scriptures are, are usually
miles away from the experience, yet when I
go back and read the texts again, they are yet
very descriptive...

It's so strange... with scriptures it seems
it is not enough to read and understand single
words, one must try and guess at the heart
and experience behind the words.
The words are usually not literal.

Thus, I feel, like you, that disagreements over
scriptures and even experience, since it is
personal, is useless. :)

>What I also suspect I feel somewhere deep down in the cavernous recesses of
>my consciousness, is something like a touch of ENVY towards people, who can
>claim with confidence that there is no pain in Kundalini, Kundalini is only
>grace etc. Silly, unenlightened, but there we are.

LOL !
I deeply suspect even "negative" emotions
such as envy are as much a part of the
Goddess as joy and bliss.
As Magne likes to put it, emotion is energy in
motion and energy is Shakti.
I can't tell you how many times envy has fired
my own furnaces and brought out positive energy
in the end.
I usually get a little envious when ppl
have these great mystic experiences
and explosive awakenings, something
I never had. ;)
Enjoy the emotions, and be yourself.
It is truly the Goddess in all her splendor. :))

I don't think there is any unenlightenedness, btw. :)

>Amanda, absolutely no offense taken, it's a great attitude & I love the
>quote on the devil - tantric to the max...

Phew, I'm relieved you weren't offended.
Sometimes I get the strong feeling I might
offend ppl on this list without wanting too.

LOL !
I could just imagine it, being such a bad
and uppity and unafraid girl even the devil would look up to you, or at least the devil as he is in our own imaginations.

I saw a computer animation of a devil
like being replete with horns and flaming
footsteps hit one white = good knight in a
videogame and stride through his dungeon
as its unchallenged master.
The whole animation was done with such energy,
candor
and humor, I sat laughing out loud afterwards.

As a little girl, I used to be afraid of the
devil and imagined what he would look like.
At night, I thought he was in my room,
watching me. But
in the end, I wonder whether it wasn't my own
will and volition I was scared of, you know,
repressed stuff in the psyche and all that...
"be a good girl or you'll go to hell".
Strange thing is, when I have admitted to
want the devil to worship me and seen
the will and volition with some humor,
the need to be a good girl has grown much
stronger. :))

Sorry to be blabbering on, but I enjoy the
topic.

Of course, I don't want to hurt anybody,
but I want to give the physical
body some fun and
challenges, usually in the form of exercise
such as simulated combat. I love that.

>Problem for me was, that when the mind was in a state of complete melancholia
>or shaken by gut-wrenching anxiety, it seemed very hard to keep my eyes open
>and enjoy the sights.

I know what you mean. Physical pain, anxiety
and psychological turmoil does cloud the
mirror of the soul and makes everything
difficult.
I think meditation may be impossible in this
situation.
Nevertheless, it is possible to work oneself
out of these situations... and often,
if it is K related, it will cease after some
days or weeks.
But very often, one only needs a reassurance
that everything is ok and that one will get
over it to feel better. That you won't be stuck
in that quagmire for ever.

I know... a doctor once gave me a good advice
regarding panic attack, which I had for
a year and it was not fun. What he prescribed
was essentially Vipassana meditation without
calling it such. And it helped. :))

Someone else on this list mentioned yesterday
that pain is a signal to the mind/body that
something is wrong.
I thought about this last night
(I was awake too, think of what fun we could
have had of we were both online, Michael ;) )
and I must concur with this statement.
Pain to me
means something is not in order,
that I must go within and look at myself,
and start to heal up.

Thanks for your friendliness and forwardness,
Michael.

Best regards,

Amanda.

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