kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 210 

Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: Quatification

Juliet has written:

Maybe it's time for us to begin to newly quantify, to develop (modern?)
terms.  After all, never in history has there been an opportunity for
this kind of global dialogue about such a (normally sequestered)
subject.

I would like to challenge the list generally--and Nathagi specifically--
to try and articulate some guidelines so that confusion is at least
diminshed--and so people know when what they are experiencing is
actually kundalini.

Can we do it???
---------------------------

I wholeheartedly agree that this is a great moment in history, when so
many opportunities of communication arise, and I hope to be one of the
people who can be of some help through whatever little knowledge I
managed to gather along the way. The ideea of a FAQ list is also very
welcome.

And Juliet, if you want to coddle me on my Yogic name, know that it is
correct Nathaji (not Nathagi) :-)

With blessings,

--
Natha Bhaktyananda 
K=F8bmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668

-

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: Lorna Leitgeb 
Subject: N.W. Yoga Resource List

Hello, 

I am a student at The Evergreen State College enrolled in the program 
Foundations of Well-Being.  I am involved with a group creating a 
North West (From Seattle to Portland)
Yoga Resource List Brochure.  This guide will be available 
electronically through the college's web site.  The hard copy will be 
placed in the state and local library systems and possibly  
distributed locally.  

I am writing for two reasons.  One,  to request permission to include this 
listserve in the brochure.  Two, to request ideas, comments and 
additional resources that the list members may have.  

Thank you 

***  Some day, after we have mastered the winds, the waves, the tides and 
gravity . . . we shall harness . . . the energies of love.  
Then, for the second time in the history of the world, [human beings] 
will have discovered fire  ***		      --Teilhard de Chardin

Lorna Leitgeb		192.211.16.13/individuals/leitgebl/home.html
The Evergreen				and 
State College	192.211.16.13/curricular/virtual_college/leitgebl/home.html
-


Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: "Veda002ATNOSPAMpacbell.net" 
Subject: Re: The three dosha-s

Natha Bhaktyananda wrote:

> That is a very incomplete (or even distorted) view of what Yoga is, and
> is mainly proceeding from books which try to relate in a simplified and
> often materialistic manner Yoga with Ayurvedic medicine. Kapha, pitta
> and vayu are the so-called three "dosha-s" (or humours) of the body
> (also mentioned by Hippocrates), and they reflect only a certain truth
> of the physical and etheric body. But the human being is much more than
> a physical body, and yoga deals therefore with a much vaster reality;
> the theory of the five elements is only an appetizer of this. All the
> paranormal accomplishments from Yoga would be impossible to understand
> just by reference to the three dosha-s...

I agree with Natha, but it should be said there lies some importance for
us Kundalini fans in Ayurvedic tradition.  One area in which we need to
concentrate as a vehicle for a body to transform, is our cuisine. 
Ayurveda is a very balanced system for food and herb combining, for the
balance of healing energies.  It is very powerful and helpful in helping
Kundalini symptomology.  This is as far as we need to take it.

Thanks for the clarification Natha.

Till we all meet again, Veda.
-


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: Natha Bhaktyananda 
Subject: Re: Quantification

Juliet has written:

Maybe it's time for us to begin to newly quantify, to develop (modern?)
terms.  After all, never in history has there been an opportunity for
this kind of global dialogue about such a (normally sequestered)
subject.

I would like to challenge the list generally--and Nathagi specifically--
to try and articulate some guidelines so that confusion is at least
diminshed--and so people know when what they are experiencing is
actually kundalini.

Can we do it???
---------------------------

I wholeheartedly agree that this is a great moment in history, when so
many opportunities of communication arise, and I hope to be one of the
people who can be of some help through whatever little knowledge I
managed to gather along the way. The ideea of a FAQ list is also very
welcome.

And Juliet, if you want to coddle me by my Yogic pet name, know that it
is correct Nathaji (not Nathagi) :-)
-
With blessings,

--
Natha Bhaktyananda 
K=F8bmagergade 28, 2., 1150 K
Denmark
Tf.: (45) 33930858, Fax: (45) 33930668


-
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Quatification

At 12:52 AM 10/30/1996 +0100, you wrote:
>Juliet has written:
>
>Maybe it's time for us to begin to newly quantify, to develop (modern?)
>terms.  After all, never in history has there been an opportunity for
>this kind of global dialogue about such a (normally sequestered)
>subject.
>
>I would like to challenge the list generally--and Nathagi specifically--
>to try and articulate some guidelines so that confusion is at least
>diminshed--and so people know when what they are experiencing is
>actually kundalini.
>
>Can we do it???
>---------------------------
To me it seems like experience does not exist independent of culture. An
Indian sees Indian dieties in her or his dreams; a Buddist, devas; a
Christian, angels--etc.  So the same experience will have many names. 

However, it seems that we can generalize from this list certain consistent
themes: An interest in transcendence, an interest in evolution, a sense of
having extra special gifts, bodily sensations of heat and nerve activity;
interest in anything  intense, extra-everything: empathic, aware, sensitive,
etc. *Heightened* is a word that seems to prevail. "Consciousness", another.
Beyond this, many ways, many paths, many manifestations, many responses to
and interpretations of the experinece. 

Best, traveler



Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: "Quatification"

> Natha Bhaktyananda wrote:
>
> And Juliet, if you want to coddle me on my Yogic name, know that it is
> correct Nathaji (not Nathagi) :-)
 
Ahem.  This was a (charming?) reference to a random dialogue elsewhere
in cyberspace that I chanced to stumble upon...
Oh, uh, incidently, "Quatification" is, I think, spelled with an "L..."
:-)))

J.



Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: "Quantification"

Oh damn!  I see you fixed it before my clever retort posted!  You are
pretty quick...
-
J.



Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: rjills 
Subject: Re: geometrical figures and kundalini

klaas de jong wrote:
> 
> dear readers,
> 
> I hope this is the right place to ask this question.
> 
> At this moment I'm  working on a publication about the Dutch architect
> J.L.M. Lauweriks (1864-1932). Lauweriks joined several of the mystical
> groups and organisations that flowered in the first half of our century. He
> was also an active practitioner of yoga.
> 
> Also in his art and architecure he was very much influenced by the ideas
> that circulated in these groups. Characteristic of his work is the fact that
> he used mathematical and symbolic figures as the basis for his designs. Most
> used are:
> 
> -the meander
> -the spiral and the double spiral
> -the limacon of Pascal
> -the tree of Pytagoras
> -the labyrint
> 
> My questions are these:
> -Are those figures ever mentioned in yoga literature or other mystical
> literature?
> -And if so, wich are these sources and what is the specific meaning that is
> attached in them to those figures?
> -Could these geomatrical figures occur as a site effect in Kundalini or
> other yoga practises? (As in drug hallucinations or migraine attacks)
> 
> I really hope that one of you can set us on the right track in solving these
> problems.
> 
> Thanks already for your time and attention!
> 
> with high regards,
> 
> Klaas de Jong
> klaasATNOSPAMbwk.ahk.nl
> 

Well, Klaas. I do know that Pythagoras is very interesting in regard to this.
Also in terms of the physical universe, it is said that everything is based on
two forms , the circle and the cube. (Walter Russell). I think that there is
something about spherical geometry that is exceeding mystical and bears
investigation.  Im not familiar with it as being linked to yoga, however. There
was a time during a K. time that I saw triangles on the wall .  Each form does
mean something, and magik also goes into that.   Royale
> 
> .-

-

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Undelivered Mail

>
>At 12:52 AM 10/30/1996 +0100, you wrote:
>>Juliet has written:
>>
>>Maybe it's time for us to begin to newly quantify, to develop (modern?)
>>terms.  After all, never in history has there been an opportunity for
>>this kind of global dialogue about such a (normally sequestered)
>>subject.
>>
>>I would like to challenge the list generally--and Nathagi specifically--
>>to try and articulate some guidelines so that confusion is at least
>>diminshed--and so people know when what they are experiencing is
>>actually kundalini.
>>
>>Can we do it???
>>---------------------------
>To me it seems like experience does not exist independent of culture. An
>Indian sees Indian dieties in her or his dreams; a Buddist, devas; a
>Christian, angels--etc.  So the same experience will have many names. 
>
>However, it seems that we can generalize from this list certain consistent
>themes: An interest in transcendence, an interest in evolution, a sense of
>having extra special gifts, bodily sensations of heat and nerve activity;
>interest in anything  intense, extra-everything: empathic, aware, sensitive,
>etc. *Heightened* is a word that seems to prevail. "Consciousness", another.
>Beyond this, many ways, many paths, many manifestations, many responses to
>and interpretations of the experinece. 
>
>Best, traveler
>
>



-
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Quatification]

oops. meant to send this to whole list...


traveler wrote:
> 
> To me it seems like experience does not exist independent of culture. 
> An
> Indian sees Indian dieties in her or his dreams; a Buddist, devas; a
> Christian, angels--etc.  So the same experience will have many names.

But the thesis is, I guess, that *kundalini* itself has pan-cultural
manifestation--we see it (and it's symbology) in ancient Vedic culture,
perhaps in Gnostic Christianity, in Tantric Buddhism, perhaps in
esoteric Judaism (as Kabalah), in western alchemical traditions, in "New
Age" stuff.  Others can probably add more to this quick list.  The
project (if we are agreed on this pan-cultural part) would then be to
define the process in a clear enough way so that not only would we
possibly be able to identify it's expression in various places through
history, but also (and pehaps more importantly), so that we can identify
it amongst ourselves.

The impetus for this was Natha's observation that many people are
unclear about whether they are experiencing kundalini or not.  

J.
-



Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: traveler 
Subject: Re: Quatification

At 07:52 PM 10/29/1996 -0800, you wrote:
>traveler wrote:
>> 
>> To me it seems like experience does not exist independent of culture. > An
>> Indian sees Indian dieties in her or his dreams; a Buddist, devas; a
>> Christian, angels--etc.  So the same experience will have many names.
>
>But the thesis is, I guess, that *kundalini* itself has pan-cultural
>manifestation--we see it (and it's symbology) in ancient Vedic culture,
>perhaps in Gnostic Christianity, in Tantric Buddhism, perhaps in
>esoteric Judaism (as Kabalah), in western alchemical traditions, in "New
>Age" stuff.  Others can probably add more to this quick list.  The
>project (if we are agreed on this pan-cultural part) would then be to
>define the process in a clear enough way so that not only would we
>possibly be able to identify it's expression in various places through
>history, but also (and pehaps more importantly), so that we can identify
>it amongst ourselves.
>
>The impetus for this was Natha's observation that many people are
>unclear about whether they are experiencing kundalini or not.  
>
>J.
Okay, I am with you. Sounds interesting. Gopi Krishna wanted to do this by
making it scientific, and therefore quantifiable by universally agreed upon
standards and language.

However, here is my concern. Art and science are two complementary forces.
If science is objective, then the art is subjective. A scientific treatment
can only be partial. I wonder if our total understanding of the k must come
within a context?, much like the word bark can exist alone, but to see the
meaning we must have context--otherwise how do we know whether one is
referring to the bark of the dog or the bark of the tree?
-
A stripping of k out of context might deprive us of the understanding we
have for it, in terms and a language that is meaningful to us.. and in so
doing , sterilize it. So for a westerner, the k will have a different
understanding than for an easterner, but still be k...

Any way, I love experiments and learning. I have learned SO MUCH!!! Even
over my ranting and raving. I am blessed a thousand times over, and thank
all those who gave me cause to disagree, and to ponder the disagreement.
Love, that's how I feel, and gratitude. 
-
Richard, thanks!!! YOu have put love in this world. 

Now, let's explore whether k can possibly be extracted and defined
completely outside of the understanding and context that we are used to
having. Or, even if it is scientific....or both.

Best, traveler


-
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 
From: raunakATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu (raunak kothari)
Subject: KUNDALINI & VEGETARIANISM

Though I first felt kundalini arousal spontaneously during a time when I
ate meat, I have recognized its true nature much more deeply after having
given up meat again (I was vegetarian as a child in India).

Do the others on this list correlate the occurrence of the kundalini
phenomenon with vegetarianism?  Can anyone who eats meat really undergo a
true kundalini awakening?

raunak kothari
raunakATNOSPAMmail.utexas.edu



Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: Sherry Tapke 
Subject: Re: KUNDALINI & VEGETARIANISM

raunak kothari wrote:
Do the others on this list correlate the occurrence of the kundalini
phenomenon with vegetarianism?  Can anyone who eats meat really undergo
a true kundalini awakening?

sherry here:
Yes, meat eaters are also awakened. I was a meat eater at the time I
received my awakening through Sahaja Yoga. In Sahaja Yoga there are no
dietary restrictions. However, over a period of time my body has
rejected meat. I am now a total vegetarian, shunning all animal
products. The same is true for many of my Sahaja friends. Through the
awakening of the kundalini, and with continued meditation, the body
will, on it's own, find the best path for the needs of the individual.
-- 
In Service to the Light, I AM Sherry  (aka Marana)
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1616  (Personal)
http://home.earthlink.net/~actionagency  (Business)
"Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the
peace of God."  A Course in Miracles



Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 
From: lodpressATNOSPAMinetworld.com (Larry Newman)
Subject: Re: geometrical figures and kundalini



HI,
YOu will find these figures in many mystical writings. Look at the
Kabbalah, some of the grail works I believe are written this way, there
are also others that I've seen which could have been in even Aleister
Crowley works. Symbology is actually a language. What is important is
beyond the symbols. Gloria




-
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: (no subject)

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Tuesday, 29-Oct-96 10:39 AM
From: dominick schiavone       \ Internet:    (0731ATNOSPAMasan.com)
Subject: (no subject)
-
I am very interested in starting a form of yoga to help        
  strenthin interior organs of the body and also wich includes 
   breathing tech. can you please send me some info.           
   the body Im in has cancer,Im curing it holisticly           
    please send me info. to                                    
                            150-27  tahoe st.                  
                             ozone park n.y.                   
                              11417       

-

------- FORWARD, End of original message -------



Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: stampmanATNOSPAMix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer )
Subject: Re: KUNDALINI & VEGETARIANISM

You wrote: Do the others on this list correlate the occurrence of the 
kundalini phenomenon with vegetarianism?  Can anyone who eats meat 
really undergo a true kundalini awakening?

Immediately after my K-A I rejected all meat and cheese (milk and 
yoghurt were OK for some reason). Gradually I have added cheese in 
small amounts and only occasionally. I have never felt the need to 
reject 'animal products'; leather being an important garment for both 
Karen and myself. I had reduced/eliminated red meat as part of weight 
reduction program prior to the K-A.
-
Although you can place a religious/philosophical mantle over the 
phenomena of spontaneous vegetarianism, I feel that much of the 
rejection experienced is due to heightened sensitivity and perceptions. 
Also that it is as variable as the cultures and individuals in which 
the experience occurs.

DAN-RF


-
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: What does meat have to do with anything

Everything is as you believe it to be.. If you believe that you can't 
have meat to understand the energy rising experience then you 
probably won't be able to.   Just remember that the only limitation 
are the ones you place on yourself. Find where your beliefs stem from 
and if you wish.. change them..
hugs,
flute
Carolyn Maloney
Reiki Master, Empathic, Light worker
Kundalini Awakened. Intuitive Explorer (psychic)
http://pages.prodigy.com/flute



Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com (CAROLYN MALONEY)
Subject: Symbols

If you are getting Symbols especially the one's mentioned in a post I 
recently saw here..  The archetypes of ancient cultures are part of 
the unconscious mind.  Reiki uses symbols from the sanscrit. You 
might want to look into those classes.   At any rate.. even words are 
just forms for transfering thought to another.


aka Carolyn Maloney
fluteATNOSPAMprodigy.com
http://pages.prodigy.com/flute



Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: Juliet 
Subject: Re: DIET/KUNDALINI & VEGETARIANISM

> Do the others on this list correlate the occurrence of the
> kundalini phenomenon with vegetarianism?  Can anyone who eats meat
> really undergo a true kundalini awakening?

I havn't eaten meat for years, so I can't comment on it's effects
directly but I know through experimentation that diet in general has a
big effect on my practice and my subtle perceptions.  

The thing with the most extraordinary (negative) effect is *smoking*
(which I used to love).  If I smoke even one ciggarette it almost
completely wipes out any subtle visual awareness for about two weeks.  I
quit for this reason.

Weirdly enough, flax seed oil (?!) seems to be a great facilitator.  I
try to do a spoonful before a yoga set.  It's amazing. Maybe ghee works
somewhat similarly.  I've heard that Barlean's has a new combo oil which
is supposed to be even more "sophisticated" (not my term), but I haven't
tried it.

My own sense is that meat would be somewhat clouding for *my* system. 
But then again, Tibetan Yogis supposedly eat meat regularly (so long as
they don't do the slaughter themselves).  A Tibetan Llama (sp.?) that I
know even eats pork sausage (!!!).  I have actually witnessed this
astonishing feat.  But, of course, these guys have their sophisticated
(my word) "left-handed" methods of exploiting and subverting such
worldly behaiviors...

my $.02

Has anybody else tried flax seed oil?
-
Juliet



Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 

Subject: Re: DIET/KUNDALINI & VEGETARIANISM

At 09:29 AM 10/30/96 -0800, Juliet wrote:
>Weirdly enough, flax seed oil (?!) seems to be a great facilitator.  I
>try to do a spoonful before a yoga set.  It's amazing. Maybe ghee works
>somewhat similarly.  I've heard that Barlean's has a new combo oil which
>is supposed to be even more "sophisticated" (not my term), but I haven't
>tried it.
>Has anybody else tried flax seed oil?

I haven't tried it myself, but I have information from another list I belong
to. They use it to help cleanse the body of toxins and impurities.  It
specifically works on the digestive tract.
-
Hope this helps.

In Service to the Light,





Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Quatification]

Juliet wrote:
> The project (if we are agreed on this pan-cultural part) would then be to
> define the process in a clear enough way so that not only would we
> possibly be able to identify it's expression in various places through
> history, but also (and pehaps more importantly), so that we can identify
> it amongst ourselves.
> 
> The impetus for this was Natha's observation that many people are
> unclear about whether they are experiencing kundalini or not.
> 
> J.

How about the appendix in Dr. Lee Sanella's book 'Kundalini: Psychosis
or Transcendence?' where he has a questionnaire to be used in 
the diagnosis of 'physio-kundalini'?  I dont have it in front of me,
or I would type it in.  But it seems like a good starting point?

I would be interested if Gloria has thoughts on this questionnaire
as to whether it has elements that make it distinct from the 
experience of Pneuma/Holy Spirit?  But I am succumbing to 
my chronic disease of overintellectualitiscuriosa again...



Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 
From: Peter Norton 
Subject: Re: KUNDALINI & VEGETARIANISM
-
> raunak kothari wrote:
> Do the others on this list correlate the occurrence of the kundalini
> phenomenon with vegetarianism?  Can anyone who eats meat really undergo
> a true kundalini awakening?

for what it's worth:  Jack Kornfield mentions a story in 'A Path With
Heart' where a retreatant who had induced 'excess' kundalini (perhaps)
via sitting motionless for 24hours straight (against the advice of the
teacher), was given a heavy diet of hamburger etc. and made to 
run many miles for a few days in order to moderate the energy.

For the record, prior to my one minor presque-K experience, I had been
vegetarian for a year or so.  But I would guess that vegetarianism
is not absolutely necessary, just beneficial.

It makes sense to me that diet would be very important.  Digestion
takes a lot of energy to accomplish, and has a dramatic effect on the
availability of blood to the brain. The universality of fasting in
spiritual practice seems to support this.  Lee Sanella mentions the
research by Candace Pert showing how the intestines produce 
large amounts of endorphin like hormones that perhaps interact with K.
So overstressing the intestines would affect this.

Also, the stories of both Buddha and Milarepa describe great experiences
of awakening after breaking a fast with a meal.

Perhaps it is no accident that the most honored position in a 
Zen center is that of the cook?