kundalini-l-d Digest				Volume 96 : Issue 140 

Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Jan Watson 
Subject: the athiest..

Hello all

So there is an athiest is the group!  Why ask him to deny his 
experiences?  Each one of us perceives but a small portion of what is 
Real out there.  With time, we learn to open up to other realities, not 
just our own subjective ones.  Relax.  We all see according to who we 
are, where we are in time and space and what we need to see in order to 
grow. Agreement about religion is in no way necessary to allow for growth 
within the framework that surrounds us.  His perception is DIFFERENT, not 
necesarily inferior to any one else's - better only counts if the race to 
the top is run on a linear path and it is not.  

This is not being critical; those that experience k release, in the first 
years or so, by necessity must destabilize their previous beliefs in 
order to allow for the new.  Chaos is rarely a clean process - allow for 
it or squelch the possiblitlies reality may lead any given indiviudal to. 
 

To the athiest: Sorry I can't remember your name except in my mind I 
called you 'D" when I read all the postings and chose to delete them and 
not get involved.  Don't every deny your experiences, regardless of what 
they are; but be prepared to widen the context in which you interpret 
your experience - eg.  the beingS that you encountered - research them in 
some of the alternate texts that are not so bound in tradition.  Truth 
sometimes lies in strange places.  Whom do they serve?  If you care to 
email me about some of them, I'd be glad to help you look some of them up 
in these texts.  

For the other readers, no I am not an athiest, but yes, I am willing to 
look at what D is saying with a view to understanding more of what he is 
experiencing and perhaps enriching my own knowledge.  

Hang in there all.  Your support of one of the group is great!

jan



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: life, the universe, everything

First of all, this is not a flame, and I do not want to get any flames in
response. if there are any, i'll delete them without reading them. I also
dont want to upset anyone, that is not my intention.  lets make this a bit
more constructive shall we? my hope is by sharing some personal info here
will help.

first off, i am an atheist. i do not have a "religion" or "god", and in
addition, i have a severe distaste of anyone who tries to "force" their
beliefs upon another person. we are all equal, of equal value, will, and
respect. no person is "better" than another, no persons view is any more
important or "correct" or "right" than anyone elses.

i live by the motto that each persons beliefs and thoughts are their own,
and no one else has any right otherwise. in fact, i think this is rather
arrogant and egotistical, to think or act otherwise.

i find televangelists the worst, and those who think there is something
wrong with someone because they dont share the beliefs of another person.
buddhist beliefs are completely different from christian, and older too. The
egyptians believed in many gods, as did the mians, and toltecs (sp), the
egyptians were around thousands of years before christianity. but belief is
not about who was "first", heck, nobody knows what the first religion was,
perhaps sumarian, going back 40,000 years. i am only using christianity as
an example here, not singling them out. my whole family is devot strict
roman-catholic. heck my family LIVED on the grounds of the VATICAN for a
number of years, my grandfather was a personal bodyguard to the Pope!! I
mean, how much more religious can you get than that?!  And thats a statement
I want to make too. i mean, just because someone is a "Pope" or whatever,
doesnt mean they are any MORE or LESS religious than anyone else. or any
MORE right or LESS.
-
an analogy might be "love", i mean do you love your daughter more than your
wife? you simply cant measure it that way.

one weird religious  thing about me, i guess you could say, is if i
walk by (even not conciously aware) or enter a church (christian, catholic,
etc, or a buddhist temple), if i dont keep my distance i will become
"drained" and even once have come very close to passing out before i
realized what it was, and got to a safe distance.

I've read a LOT of information, scientific, physics, quantum physics,
spiritual, religious, and even science fiction, internet stuff, spiritweb,
RA Material (briefs), mail lists, and numerous conversations, as well as
seeing spiritualists, visionaries, healers, psychics, etc. the fact of the
matter is, no one knows who or what created the universe, or why, or how.
another fact is, no one knows how the universe actually works, what its all
about. even our petty human "physical laws" may be complete nonsense in the
bigger picture, and our grasp of "time" or "dimensions" is pathetic.

i think it is only human arrogance to think that such a spectacular
universe, as enormous as it is, as incredibly complex, as wonderous as it
is, was created JUST for US. A whole wonderous universe created merely for
some insignificant species on some unknown insignificant little blue planet
in some insignificant little out of the way back corner galaxy such as ours?
really now, is this not PURE ego?

these are not things i have thought about much, although from time to time,
until recently. recently i've thought about this more and more although not
obsessively.

is it possible to be an atheist AND have spiritual beliefs at the same time?
certainly! atheism to me means only that there is no such thing as "god", it
doesnt mean, to me, that you dont believe in spiritual things, other
"entities", psychic abilities, mystics, healing, etc. this is NOT a
contradiction, to me, the two things have nothing to do with each other, in
fact, i cant see the connection, never could. so i will say i dont
understand the thoughts of others that atheists cant believe in these
things, that doesnt make sense, and seems of "ego".

in fact, i feel this may be the biggest ego subject of them all. then again,
maybe not. :)

I'll be honest and say I've always thought of "religion" is for those who
"need" it, those who need that kind of faith, that kind of hope. and when
someone is trying to force their beliefs down my throat, etc etc then i
sometimes think of it like alcohol to an alcoholic. the truth is, i've
always been on my own, from childhood (moving once every 3 months, always
with a different realtive, different cities, or even countries, never having
a chance to make friends) to adulthood living alone, and my fiancee passing
away 6.5 years ago. so I've always been self-supporting, my fiancee changed
that, or so I thought. i've never really needed someone else since then,
until recently, well actually I have, but its gotten a lot worse. now i feel
i may die if that other person isnt found. a person cannot live without love
in their life. i have no one in my life, outside "cyberlife", not even
friends, as such.

I recall going through school and having devot christians constantly telling
me how i will burn in hell for all eternity because i dont believe. they
always tried to ram their beliefs down my throat. this is the ultimate ego.
for me, neither heaven nor hell exist, mine is simply a different universe.
heaven to me is a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron, and logically and
rationally, the idea is invalid. but again, i'm not trying to press my
beliefs on anyone. these are MY ideas and beliefs, they are simply
statements, of mine. they dont have to be yours. just thoughts to share on
these subjects.

i believe in a lot of different spiritual things. and a lot of different
entities, i've been through a great deal, and have a great deal more yet to
come. heck i've even posted that "fate" is my true mother, just goes to show
some things, and i've seen native spiritualists. i have a great deal of
respect for them, and "Ancients", japanese and so forth. (many others).

spirituality should be spirituality, without judgement, perhaps wihtout
religion, well... i hope my points in this get across ok.
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: grounding

My grounding info is not grounding as in, getting connected to ground, like
earth, but "Grounding" activities as in energy like negative, positive,
ground. get it? anyhow.

its from Dr. Kason's book "a farther shore", talks about closing the
chakras, etc. she even mentioned for me to do these in session last time. i
just cant, i find it utterly insane to even think about it!
Dan.
There are always possibilities...



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: liaATNOSPAMquadrant.net (lia pas)
Subject: new subscriber info

hi. i'm new here and thought i'd send this along
-
  1. Name: Lia Pas

2. Age: 24

3. When did you first become aware of kundalini in your life?
      when i was about 17. shortly after i first had sex and when i became
interested in yoga

4. How long ago was this? 7 years ago
-
5. What are some of the things you have noticed? increased psychic
abilities, increased sex drive (usually, occasionally decreased),
spontaneous yoga poses. lately a very strange sense of paranoia. its as if
i can hear and feel EXACTLY what other people think of me. not always good.


6. What has changed/is changing in your life? i realize how important my
art is to me (i'm a writer and a musician). yoga has become very important
but since i had my son 9 1/2 months ago i find i don't seem to have time
for it aside from my weekly class and that seems to be detrimental.

7. Do you have any particular practices that you have found helpful?
iyengar yoga. regular meditation.

8. Are you involved in any service to others? i'm a stay at home mother and
find myself giving advice through tarot readings, reiki and basic energy
help to others who ask.

9. What are you hoping to get out of this list? some sort of community i
can talk to about what's going on. lately its been hard to deal with and i
don't seem to have anyone i can talk to about it. yet :)



Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 
From: mabATNOSPAMrio.com (Margaret A. Blaine)
Subject: new subscriber

Margaret Blaine
age 57
First became of kundalini in 1970 at long meditation course in India.
Have noticed spontaneous yoga postures, synchronicity, ability to connect
with higher realms, ability to tune in to people( I don't do this unless
asked).  Do not suffer as I did before 1970.  Much stronger psychologically,
have trust in the universe, am coming out on top of challenges so I don't
think of them as problems. Am consistently happy. My body twitches a lot as
the energy moves and this has gotten worse rather than better. Lately the
energy was so much that I didn't think I could handle it and went to a
Kundalini Yoga class.  This has helped a great deal. I now do it for 15
minutes every day and things are much smoother.
     Network chiropractic has helped me through blocks. Meditation snd
chanting seem to make it stronger.
     I have been a counselor for many years, but am now at home caring for
myself for a while.  Am involved in introducing people to spiritual practice.
     I have needed people to talk to about this to see what works what
hasn't worked for them and to share experiences.  I also hope that at some
point I might be able to write a book about it, to help other people who
might not understand what is going on.  I also want to clarify the
differences between problems on the  spiritual path and traditional
psychological problems so that the profession can understand what they are
seeing when someone comes in.
     



Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: grounding the k

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Tuesday, 10-Sep-96 09:39 PM

From: Margaret A. Blaine       \ Internet:    (mabATNOSPAMrio.com)
To:   kundalini-l-requestATNOSPAMexecpc.com \ Internet:   

Subject: grounding the k

I am new to this group and am delighted at having people with whom I
can discuss kundalini, since it is such a large part of my life.
     I joined a kundalini yoga class when the k got too strong and this has
settled it down really well, and grounded it.
     Orgasism helps and aerobic exercise and heavier food.
     I have been concerned about foggy brain and having trouble with memory.
Is anyone else having this?
                           Margaret B.


------- FORWARD, End of original message -------
-

--
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him.
They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and 
make fun of it.
Thomas Carlyle



-
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: Animals

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Tuesday, 10-Sep-96 09:41 PM

From: ElmovolATNOSPAMaol.com          \ America On-Line: (Elmovol)
To:   Mary Knapp               \ Internet:    (chooseagainATNOSPAMthegrid.net)

Subject: Animals

Mary, those are all powerful animals.  A wonderful book about the animals
is called "Animal Speak" by Ted Andrews.  I'll give a small synopsis from
the
book of  what each one means.

Bobcat
- "The bobcat is a solitary animal, and those with it as a totem often find
themselves in the same situation.  Coming to terms with that - learning to
be
alone without being lonely, is part of what the bobcat teaches.  Because it
is solitary, those who have the bobcat as a totem will find that their
friends often share secrets.  It is important for anyone with a bobcat or
lynx as a totem not to break confidences.  This will always have strong
repercussions and will usually be found out quickly."
                                How 'bout this??  "The tail is very symbolic
 . Tails have a long connection symbolically with the sexual energies and the
kundalini.  The tail or the tail end is the seat of the life force.  The tip
of the bobcat's tail is black and its underneath side is white.  This
reflects the ability to turn on and off the creative forces as is needed. It
also ties the bobcat to some forms of sexual magic and mysticism.  The
bobcat
can teach how to project and utilize the life force in silent but powerful
ways.  The bobcat's magic is always most powerful when others do not know of
it.  Meditation on the Hermit card in the tarot deck will help you to know
when to be alone and when to be social.  It will help you attune to the
energies of this animal."   Perhaps you have found a mascot for this list?
-

Coyote
-"It is the creator and the jokester.  Much magic has been associated with
the coyote, but the magic does not always work.  Even in its not working, it
serves a purpose.  There is always hidden wisdom where the coyote is
concerned.  The coyote reminds us not to become too serious and remind us
that anything is possible.  The coyote teaches the balance of wisdom and
folly and how they go hand in hand."                       Fox - "It is a
totem that speaks of the need to develop or the awakening of camouflage,
invisibility and shapeshifting.  It can teach these skills to those whose
life it enters.  The fact that there are 21 different kinds of foxes found
throughout the world has great metaphysical significance. Card 21 in the
tarot deck is The World.  It is a card that reflects a new world opening up,
that the process of creation is beginning.  It reflects that the world is
growing and shapeshifting itself into new patterns that will be beneficial.
  It is often most visible at the times of dawn and dusk, the "Between
Times." The fox's appearance at such times can often signal that the Faerie
Realm is about to open for the individual."

"The coat of the fox serves as camouflage.  Practicing and using camouflage is
something everyone with a fox totem should learn to do.  Working to blend in
with the surroundings, to come and go unnoticed, moving silently about
without revealing your intentions is all part of what fox teaches.  Much of
this is reflected in learning to control the aura, the energy field around
your body."

Owl
"The owl is the symbol of the feminine, the moon and the night.  Because of its
association with the moon, it has ties to fertility and secution, for the moon
is the arouser of men and owls.  The owl is the bird of magic and darkness, of
prophecy and wisdom.  To the ancient Greeks, the owl was associated with the
goddess Athena, and it was a symbol of higher wisdom. The owl is a bird of the
night, and the night has long been a symbol of the darkness within, the place
in which humans hide their secrets.  One who works with owl medicine will be
able to see and hear what others try to hide.  You will hear what is not being
said and you will see what is hidden or in the shadows.  You can detect and
pinpoint the subtleties."

Hope
this sheds some light on the meaning of your sightings.  Christine

------- FORWARD, End of original message -------


--
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him.
They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and 
make fun of it.
Thomas Carlyle
-


Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 
From: Richard Satin 
Subject: Fwd: Bye-Bye :(

------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------

Date: Tuesday, 10-Sep-96 08:54 PM
-
From: ElmovolATNOSPAMaol.com          \ America Online: (ELMOVOL)

Subject: Bye-Bye :(

Dear Ones, Tomorrow I am leaving my brother's house to start my journey back
home so I'm unsubbing from the list so as not to raise my brother's
kundalini
before its time.  It has been quite an intense journey for me being part of
this list.  I want to thank those of you who e-mailed me when I requested
help and/or information and also those who did a-mail (astral mail) me, rest
assured, I got those communicatioms too.  What an incredible journey we are
all on!  I have learned so much from everyone and will be eternal grateful
for the love and the support.  In the past my inner voice has said not to
get
on the Net because it would be a diversion and a distraction.  Well, this
summer it was a lifesaver for me.  Will need to check in again to see what
is
in my highest good.  Many Blessings, Christine

-
--
If Jesus Christ were to come today, people would not even crucify him.
They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and 
make fun of it.
Thomas Carlyle



Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: the athiest..

jan,

Support of one in the group is support of ALL - that's why it's posted to the
list instead of individually sent.  If there's one going through it, chances
are there are more.  So even when I title my posts to a particular person, it
is also a message to myself and everyone else on the list (and off, for that
matter!).  ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL, I say!
-
Nice to hear from you!

Blessings,  Barb



Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 
From: WorcaATNOSPAMaol.com
Subject: Re: Transformation
-
In a message dated 96-09-10 15:39:35 EDT, you write:

>oh i dunno about that. i feel like i've overdosed on myself. too much time
>alone I think.  aww, dont pick on the poor sweet cute bunny wabbit!

>sometimes i do feel i'd be better off as a stuffed aminal (not a spelling
>mistake) though... :)

Love to see your humor back in full force!!  Please let the "atheist stuff"
be very small in your expansiveness, or at least see the humor in it too!!

>eeep! I've done that to death... i want the roller coaster to stop for a
>minute, otherwise i'm going to loose my lunch...

Boy, do I know what you mean!  It's always amazing to me when I have to go
back and do more - WHAT?  MORE?  I HAVEN'T DONE ENOUGH ALREADY?  C'MON -
THERE MUST BE A MISTAKE!

>>Putting a time limit on when you HAVE to attract someone is going into
fear.
>> You are SAFE, whether you now know it or not, YOU ARE SAFE.  Relax, love &
>>support your inner bunny (excuse me, ahem, voices rather), and allow love
to
>>find YOU when you are ready for it (that's advice, not an order!).  And
look
>>how wonderful you are already getting at attracting love - there has been
an
>>outpouring of love from this list, has there not?  A "physical" loving,
>>supportive relationship cannot be far behind!
->
>oh its not MY time limit dear, no no. its just a premonition/precognition
>from a BUNCH of people. yeah, like thats not pressure... no... :) and it
>certainly didnt help my getting this little "its my time" message either.
>eesh.

Didn't I read you say that "fate" was your mother?  Then let fate take care
of it!  I once got a message of death too, but in the dying of illusion is
the rebirth of Truth, so it's not really a death at all!  (Gosh, I'm still
"here!")
-
>as for love, the weird thing is I HAVE been in love, for 9 months now. its
>directed at a specfic person, and i've even gotten glimpses of them in my
>meditations. except i still dont know who it is. the rule seems to be that
>they will find me, which fits nicely with your statement there. 

I guess fate really is going to take care of it for you!  If you are seeing
it, why worry about when?  JUST KNOW....

>>Lots more Love,  Barb
-
>who me? i'll muddle through somehow. and in the meantime i'll share and
>offer to others here. lest this list turn into my own private support group.
>:)

I knew yesterday that this particular phase was going to be "done" today.
 And who knows who else got help "through" you?  You're a great facilitator!
 I thank you for myself and anyone else who feels the same.  Nice to know
this group is here in times of crisis.

Bubbles of Laughter,  Barb:-)  ;-)  =-)



Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 

Subject: Re: life, the universe, everything

At 10:05 PM 9/10/96 -0400, Dan wrote:
>first off, i am an atheist. i do not have a "religion" or "god", and in
>addition, i have a severe distaste of anyone who tries to "force" their
>beliefs upon another person. we are all equal, of equal value, will, and
>respect. no person is "better" than another, no persons view is any more
>important or "correct" or "right" than anyone elses.
>
>I'll be honest and say I've always thought of "religion" is for those who
>"need" it, those who need that kind of faith, that kind of hope. and when
>someone is trying to force their beliefs down my throat, etc etc then i
>sometimes think of it like alcohol to an alcoholic. the truth is, i've
>always been on my own, from childhood (moving once every 3 months, always
>with a different realtive, different cities, or even countries, never having
>a chance to make friends) to adulthood living alone, and my fiancee passing
>away 6.5 years ago. so I've always been self-supporting, my fiancee changed
>that, or so I thought. i've never really needed someone else since then,
>until recently, well actually I have, but its gotten a lot worse. now i feel
>i may die if that other person isnt found. a person cannot live without love
>in their life. i have no one in my life, outside "cyberlife", not even
>friends, as such.

First off Dan, let me say that I am impressed with the strength of your
beliefs (more so than some religious people I know) and that I respect you
for it.  I am not an atheist, but again, in this world there is room for
everyone.

My reason for writing this pertains to the paragraph you wrote above.  I am
sorry to hear of your loss and won't even state that I can possibly feel
what that is like.  However, you wrote that no one can live without love in
their life.  I agree with this totally.  Even though I am happily married
and have love for and from my family, I also know I can count on the love of
God to pull me through times when I need it (like you are going through
now).  I just wanted to point out that religion doesn't have to be a crutch,
but then even a crutch is necessary to help with the healing process if
something is broken.  Support from whatever source can be a good thing.
>From the tone of your posts, it sounds like you could use some about now.

May you find the love and peace you seek.


In love and light,





Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 
From: Dan Gahlinger 
Subject: Re: Fwd: grounding the k

At 07:34 AM 9/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I am new to this group and am delighted at having people with whom I
>can discuss kundalini, since it is such a large part of my life.
>     I joined a kundalini yoga class when the k got too strong and this has
>settled it down really well, and grounded it.
>     Orgasism helps and aerobic exercise and heavier food.
>     I have been concerned about foggy brain and having trouble with memory.
>Is anyone else having this?
>                           Margaret B.

  yep, yep, same ol, same ol.  although i think "foggy
brain" is an understatement. more like my brain has turned into a cheddar
melt.  So i'm getting the same thing, and trouble concentrating or
keeping interest, or studying. i have to push myself to study, really hard
these days. for me, i think its a lack of proper sleep, caused by too much
energy. but then i havent been grounding much.
Dan.
there are always possibilities...



Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 
From: "Rondi McBoyer" 
Subject: I never know what to put here..

Hi Mark,
I'm glad you answered my note. And I enjoyed reading your letter. A little
about me:Middle age mother with empty nest, into READING, spiritual growth
and peaceful country life.
My husband and I live on a few nice acres in New Hampshire, which we share
with Sadie, a Scotty dog, and two cats, many other wild creatures,
groundhogs, deer, squirrels, mice, chipmonks and sundry wildlife.
All this nature could be the reason I said you should get out of the city
once in awhile.... living there would sure scare the shit out of me :).
Adore reading and seeing science fiction movies, and am intrigued by your
list... What did you think of Star Wars? or are you too young to remember
them on the big screen?  That is not meant in a nasty way if it reads that
way I'm sorry.  Star WArs  should be watched as a serious story.  George
Lucas did these films( more on the way) with the help of Joseph Campbell,
who has studied "the force" in many different cultures.... In India it is
called Kundilini, The Coiled Force.
Tell me about the stories you are writing..I love time travel adventures..
Feel free to send me anything to read I enjoy it, and will keep all ideas
to myself.I promise.
My daughter is a budding science fiction writer, she lives in Georgia with
her husband, who is in the Army.  She doesn't share her work with me too
much.    Moms are  just not good enough I guess, I miss her so much.
How are your folks?
What else?  I have a bachelors degree in Business Management, Manage my
husband Optometry Practice.  Wrked for many years as an AirTraffic Control
Operator, a job I learned how to do in the AirForce, I retired from that a
few years ago, and now am just home waiting for the next chapter of my life
to start, with great anticipation.
Hope to hear from you.
Rondi